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#302 - 09/12/07 08:47 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Fist]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
OBL does sound like most university professors; did he really mention global warming in his address?

If so then he's much more media savvy than we give him credit to be...officially taking side with the leftist agenda is so brazen!

I wonder how leftists will recieve this. I have a feeling that it will soon become politically incorrect to label OBL as a terrorist; "Activist" is the better word.

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#303 - 09/12/07 09:42 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Have you noticed Bin Laden's new beard in his latest video to the U.S.? The mans gone hollywood.

As for the presidential candidates for '08, I like Ron Paul. Second choice would have to be Mike Gravel, and last but not least, Mike Huckabee.

As long as Rudy Guiliani, the cross-dressing 3 times divorced lisping corrupt republican "terror fighter" and former Mayor of New York City isn't elected, not only would the country be a lot better off..But it would prove that at least some of the American citizens aren't totally...Retarded.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#304 - 09/12/07 09:48 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Fist]
xear Administrator Offline
Admin
member


Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 417
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Fist, I've gotta ask, are you getting your sole source of daily news from the Arian Brotherhood's RSS feed?

Osama Bin Laden and Joseph Stalin are one in the same? Are you smoking crack? And why would you put Clinton, Obama and Edwards in the same sentence with OBL? All of the democratic candidates are staunch supporters of the first amendment. If that desert crazy had his way the only religious (or personal) freedom we would have would be dictated by the Koran.

Taxes and Guns? You sound like a throwback to the 1862 Republican party. Why would guns play such a major role in who you choose to be the next commander in chief given the numerous, very serious issues facing us in the next 10 years? The economy, strengthening our position in the global economy, the weakening dollar vs. just about every other currency, the poor state of health care, damage control on the world scene and our foreign policy to say nothing of what you surely perceive as a non-issue... (*gasp*) the environment, and getting us on board with the Kyoto protocol.

Guns are legal. Even the (very few) outlawed guns are semi-legal to keep in your home thanks to the fourth amendment. As long as you aren't shooting them in your front yard or waving a Mac 10 at someone when you're driving down the freeway odds are that nobody is going to take them away from you.

Taxes I understand, but since I know that you are in the military, I also happen to know that you can't possible be paying higher than the national average in income taxes, (unless you were a General). If the Republicans had their way with taxes you would end up paying more in taxes, as they opposed the sliding scale method and opt for a straight percentage that everyone must pay, without regard for their tax bracket or earning potential.

So now that I've gone on my rant I feel much better. I just saw you saying some out there stuff that that you weren't backing up and given the short length of your posts you weren't putting much energy into. Kinda came off as lazy and jaded. I'd love to hear ya fire back.

- Rick

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#305 - 09/12/07 11:15 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Fist]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
 Originally Posted By: Fist

Did you even listen to OBL's annual message to the US?

He did the whole leftist shtick: global warming, corporations, the war, America is bad, you name it!


1. I take it you don't believe in global climate change? It's not just a "leftist shtick", a lot of people on both sides believe it, mostly because it's true, at least to some extent.

2. I suppose the corporation thing is ONE difference between Bush and bin Laden, but that is only one difference among hundreds of similarities.

3. The war is mentioned mostly to aggravate the American public; if you listen to some analysts and pay attention to the timing of his messages, you realize that he wants the war to continue. Showing a video of America's most hated person ranting about the sins of the western world right before elections makes the pro-war, war on terror president look really appealing.

4. Okay, another small difference. He's against America. Bush is against him. The difference is insignificant, especially since you grouped Stalin with the rest of the Democratic party, because he was also anti American. Also, how is "anti America" part of the Leftist opinion. As an American political position, they're obviously supporters of our country and what it is supposed to stand for, even if they oppose the current administration. To quote Man of the Year (Robin Williams movie), "Some people say that it is unpatriotic to question the government. If it was unpatriotic to question the government, we'd still be British!"

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#308 - 09/12/07 11:51 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: undeadridinghood]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Really, you should watch the video...it is ridiculous. Except for the "Praise to Allah" preamble, OBL could easily pass for a leftist academic.

You can download the video here and see for yourself

I would like to add, also, that I believe that crass anti-Americanism is very much a feature of the contemporary left across the globe.

In the United States anti-Americanism is not an accurate label to describe someone critical of the government, but rather someone who is desperate to remain politically correct in the face of impending death. Choosing to worry about offending the sensibilities of foreigners over protecting one's own homeland seems anti-nationalistic (in this case anti-American) to me.

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#313 - 09/13/07 12:25 AM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
Mister R Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 9
 Quote:
I would like to add, also, that I believe that crass anti-Americanism is very much a feature of the contemporary left across the globe.



Can you define the contemporary left as it pertains to being a homogeneous group of fundamental idealism across the globe?

- R

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#319 - 09/13/07 10:21 AM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Mister R]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
The left today is dominated by the ideas of the New Left and the postmodernist paradigm; intellectual bankruptcy, in other words.

However I'm not entirely sure of what you're asking me to do because of the way you phrased your sentence. Can you be more clear?

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#327 - 09/13/07 02:22 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
Mister R Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 9
 Quote:
However I'm not entirely sure of what you're asking me to do because of the way you phrased your sentence. Can you be more clear?


Sure, can you paint me a picture of the poster boy for this American hating, jelly-spine having, intellectually bankrupt 'Left' that you are so broadly applying to a mysterious group of people across the globe that you call 'the Left'.

- R

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#328 - 09/13/07 04:22 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Mister R]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Paint a picture? Sure.

S/he's a person who is concerned with corporate power, institutionalized racism, environmental degradation, the oppression of the Palestinian people (usually Muslims in general), media centralization, military and economic imperialism, and poverty in the developing world. Usually the reason for all of these things are either "capitalism", "capitalism-run-wild", "neoconservatives", or "Zionists". More often than not the United States is the centre for all of these evils.

What's mysterious about this group of people? Do you feel as though I am lumping all leftists together?

These are all the big issues for self-proclaimed leftists; some focus on one or two problems, others try and tackle them all.

I find many of these people to be intellectually bankrupt because of their methodology; it seems that they begin with the assumption that capitalism and its discontents are immoral, and they go from there.

The reaction of left-feminists after 9/11 serves as a good example of leftist spinelessness: feminists went from critiquing Islam and the Middle East as a patriarchal society that has female subjugation at its core to being apologists for Islam. After 9/11, and especially the Iraq War, feminists are quick to point out that Muslim women are actually revered within Islam, that Islam granted women freedom before the West, and that veils protect a woman's character.

Leftism has become reactionary to the point of absurdity and postmodernism has come to mean "shiftiness", all for one very good reason: intellectual and theoretical bankruptcy.

There is no more leftist program save "support the underdog, destroy the West".

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#341 - 09/13/07 09:14 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Originally Posted By: Mister R


Sure, can you paint me a picture of the poster boy for this American hating, jelly-spine having, intellectually bankrupt 'Left' that you are so broadly applying to a mysterious group of people across the globe that you call 'the Left'.

- R


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
Paint a picture? Sure.

S/he's a person who is concerned with corporate power, institutionalized racism, environmental degradation, the oppression of the Palestinian people (usually Muslims in general), media centralization, military and economic imperialism, and poverty in the developing world. Usually the reason for all of these things are either "capitalism", "capitalism-run-wild", "neoconservatives", or "Zionists". More often than not the United States is the centre for all of these evils.



They're called "Hippies", and they must be exterminated. j/k

There are plenty of people who hate America. The current administration has seen to that. Let's hope the next one can hold out an olive branch to some of our estranged allies....
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#349 - 09/14/07 12:06 AM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
Mister R Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/12/07
Posts: 9
Ballbreaker,

Well put. With that definition of leftist, I might be inclined to agree with you. The only problem with that argument is that one could make a counterclaim about ‘the Right’ and define the average right-winger as being a gun crazy, invasion happy, minority hating, survivalism protagonist. Neither is an appropriate definition of a Conservative or a Liberal, generally speaking. Liberal in this case used as a synonym for ‘the Left’, as is the common interpretation.

Do I know plenty of people who identify themselves as a Liberal? Sure. Are some of them exactly as you described? You bet. But I don’t think they are anywhere near the majority view of the left, much less could you say that they are the ones who control this ‘leftist agenda’ that you mentioned.

You’re making a far-reaching broad-stroke generalization about the left, aka, Liberals, aka, US Democrats that seems fundamentally dishonest. If that’s not what you meant then I’m not trying to put words in your mouth, but that’s how I (and presumably others) would interpret comments putting Osama Bin Laden in the same ideological boat as the ‘left’ and their ‘leftist agenda’.

- R

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#373 - 09/16/07 12:37 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Mister R]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Hmm, I think it's both difficult and easy to lump groups of people together.

Difficult, because while some people identify with a particular group, they may have different takes on certain issues that may run parallel, or completely opposite to that of the main view point of their party.

Easy, because it makes for quick assumptions by which everyone else can make a snap judgement on and call it a day. Liberals? Flag-burning, gay-loving, lower-income Zionist college students. Conservatives? Similar to what Mister R said above--gun-toting, anti-abortion, Christian, upper middle-class, middle-aged, white war mongers. God-forbid if you don't support the war or the president, because that makes you a home-grown terrorist.

Myself, I take my stances according to the issue at hand. Abortion? Liberal. Taxes? Conservative. Guns? Hell, I'm Southern--Conservative. Foreign policy? Liberal, but not uber-liberal the way Europe is becoming. Immigration? Conservative. Environmentalism? Somewhere between the two extremes. I can't even rightly define myself as a Republican or Democrat anymore. So I'm sticking with Moderate Libertarian. Again, a group, but at least I'm disassociating myself from the two-party idiocy and hyper-generalizing.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#381 - 09/16/07 11:47 PM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: Nemesis]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

Myself, I take my stances according to the issue at hand. Abortion? Liberal. Taxes? Conservative. Guns? Hell, I'm Southern--Conservative. Foreign policy? Liberal, but not uber-liberal the way Europe is becoming. Immigration? Conservative. Environmentalism? Somewhere between the two extremes.


I like breaking things down into specific issues. Let's see

Abortion: very liberal
Taxes: also liberal
Guns: moderate
Foreign Policy: liberal
Immigration: complicated. I don't see how an influx of immigrants really harms our country like some people say. I think that outsourcing is much worse. At least a portion of the salaries of immigrants, probably a large portion, is spent within the U.S. on food, housing, taxes, and other things, whereas outsourcing jobs gives money (albeit a small amount) to people who spend it entirely in another country.
Environmentalism: pretty liberal, although I don't show it much yet.
Gay rights: liberal. Freedoms and opportunities for anybody is important.
Stem Cell Research: an obnoxious ploy for conservatives to prove just how pro-life they are by making legislation that will do more harm to sick, already living people than it does good to unborn, excess humans.

Are there any other issues that people care about?

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#382 - 09/17/07 12:55 AM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: undeadridinghood]
ballbreaker Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
How would you describe a "liberal" foreign policy?
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#384 - 09/17/07 01:42 AM Re: US Presidential Race [Re: ballbreaker]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
Thinking about it, I have no idea. I just wanted to hit all of Nemesis's points before putting in my own. It was stupid. I suppose I went with her definition of liberal as similar to European foreign policy. I figure it has less bombing the hell out of other countries and more negotiating. We'd save money in the long run by not feeling guilty for destroying their entire country and rebuilding them completely after conflict.
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