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#189 - 09/08/07 10:08 PM Inspiration & Advice
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I've just entered my second year at school and I'm considering getting more active on campus by starting up a political organization that can compete with the ethnic and religious groups, mainstream party youth wings, and other political organizations.

I plan on attempting to recruit students from all across the political spectrum in order to get them to focus on an issue that affects most political positions: Islam and its war against the West.

I think its a broad enough platform to unite radical leftists, libertarians, ultra-nationalists, and mainstreamers alike. I'm working on flyers to be mass produced, which I'll post when I get the opportunity to.

Questions? Comments? Considerations?

I'd appreciate critical and congratulatory input, as well as advice from those of you who have ever been active in the political process at the grassroots level.

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#199 - 09/09/07 10:47 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
ZephyrGirl Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Hi, my number one cute little BB you,

I have a question? What would be the goal of getting a political party together that focused on Islams war against the West?

I mean utimately what do you want to acheive with it?

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#204 - 09/10/07 04:08 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Woland Moderator Offline
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My guess would be that the Noble Ballbreaker wishes to instigate an organisation (not a political party) in which young people of every race, creed, political conviction & and religion, can share a common objective:

Shagging Kylie Minogue, or discussing the sociopolitical ramifications involved in the current stance: Islam vs The Western World...

Tricky though.
Bound to be either fist fights and/or a screaming contest.
Extremists from all sides will possibly do their uttermost to fuck up meetings.
Others will use it as a place to gather sheep around their convictions.
Xenophobia will rule the campus, as will scores of disgustingly politically correct simpletons.
Heavy polarization on the subject is to be expected.
Admire the initiative though...
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#213 - 09/10/07 10:56 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Woland]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Yeah things will get ugly fast if this thing picks up.

I have several goals:
1. raise the consciousness of PC-infected students
2. generate controversy and debate
3. meet like minded folk

Goal #1 would sound cheezy to me if the mandate of the group was to raise awareness about AIDS in another part of the world, to stop Japanese whaling, or to lower tuition costs by 0.00001%.

However, I do feel that the subject matter is really worth taking seriously, and awakening young people to the threat looming over the horizon seems to be a good way to rob the political fringe of this cause and to make it mainstream.

Will I get extremists from all sides? I expect that the International Socialists and various Muslim student groups will try to intervene, but if I can successfully present myself and my ideas as being mainstream and if I can successfully reach out to other groups with similar interests, then eventually interventions by my opposition will have the effect of making them look silly.

Who are my natural allies? I know that some of you will cringe, but the Christian organizations, and especially the Catholic student group, are amoung my first picks. Campus conservatives make for natural friends, too. On most university campuses the political "far-right" doesn't exist, although I wouldn't be entirely opposed to having informal ties with far-right campus groups.

I plan on orienting some of my recruiting at atheists and leftists (I expect more of the former), especially feminists and traditional Marxists.

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#217 - 09/10/07 12:18 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Loc: Oslo, Norway
Should be entertaining...

Valid point though; Islam as such can not be said to have declared war against the western world.

Islamists have most certainly done it.
But Islam as a religion (which of course contains both secular moslems, moderate moslems and extremist moslems) is about as peace loving as Xianity.

Paradox rising!
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Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#218 - 09/10/07 12:33 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Woland]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I take the stance that Islam has always been at war with the Western world; it has always been at war with the non-Muslim globe.
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#219 - 09/10/07 01:48 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Woland Moderator Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
I take the stance that Islam has always been at war with the Western world; it has always been at war with the non-Muslim globe.


*eyebrows up at sardonic angle*

We are at war with Oceania.
We have always been at war with Oceania.
We will always be at war with Oceania.

Clarify please.
Are you talking culture or religion?
Can the nature of a religion be anything else than the sum of its believers?
Does Allah (or Jahve for that matters) exist as reality and/or entity?
Are the Godhoods at war against non-believers or heathens?


This ever existent war against the west (do you btw mean Xians?) seems to me to be deeply rooted in colonialism.
The "Western World" has a more than shady reputation in such matters.
It seems to me that the western world are the real crusaders.
A crusade performed in sanctimonious self righteousness, flavoured with self pity and dipped in dogshit.

A quote frome the last (so far) Norwegian writer.
(Hung himself in the late 70s.)

"We generally think that we know quite a lot about the whites' advance into other parts of the world, against people of other colors and cultures. We know that the whole thing was one big plundering expedition, one continuous assault and robbery; we know that it involved massacres and mass murders, gold and bloodbaths, rapes, slave-trading and genocide. We know, in short, that it was really, really bad.
And yet we know nothing. What we picture to ourselves about colonialism isn't even the palest shadow of what colonialism was, or what it to some extent still is. Colonial history is in reality a hundred times worse than what we have been able to imagine ... so terrible that you blanch with shame once you've delved into it. All this has been systematically suppressed, concealed and falsified."

Jens Bjoerneboe




Edited by Woland (09/10/07 01:49 PM)
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#231 - 09/10/07 08:44 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Woland]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Woland
Clarify please.
Are you talking culture or religion?
Can the nature of a religion be anything else than the sum of its believers?


I believe that there is a violent, missionary component of Islam that is an integral part of the religion; consequently, the fundamental structure of Islam predisposes its adherents towards militarism and totalitarianism.

Islam can be broken down into one simple syllogism:

1. God exists
2. Muhammad is God's prophet

Therefore Muhammad's word is the word of God.

Alternatively, one might say that the premises lead us to a conclusion called: Koran, Hadith, and Sunnah; a package that combines both the literal word of God and the lifestyle of God's messenger.

Upon taking on the mantle of "God's last prophet" Muhammad became a local warlord and committed himself to numerous military campaigns in which he personally had a hand in murder and rape. The "context" in which many, if not all, of the passages in the Koran are situated in is literal.

These basic facts lead me to conclude that missionary violence is inherent to Islam; so-called "moderate" Muslims are usually not, so to speak, "Muslim" in any sense of the word. These so-called "moderates" are the self-proclaimed Muslims that you can find at the dance club on the weekend.

 Originally Posted By: Woland
This ever existent war against the west (do you btw mean Xians?) seems to me to be deeply rooted in colonialism.
The "Western World" has a more than shady reputation in such matters.


Christians are a valuable ally at this point in time, but generally speaking I believe that Muslims have bigger fish to fry; the axis of capitalism and democracy are the twin pillars of Western Civilization that Islam hopes to eclipse. Christianity is a part of this, but so are we.

With regards to Western self-hatred and guilt: so what if the West had a "shady" history? Go beyond the morality of Western peoples and governments' actions in the past and ask yourself a more pertinent question: whether it is moral for us in the present to suffer on account of actions taken by our ancestors to secure our dominance in world affairs.

A recurring theme in the Islam-West debate is "the West's past"; usually this is brought up after the modern day barbarism of Islam is exposed, but the debating tactic is not limited to that context.

Let's assume that violent Muslims are really just taking a typical 3rd World approach to their problems, that really they are reacting to their material conditions and imperialistic exploitation, what does this mean?

Does this mean that, even if Muslims have the moral high ground, we should throw our hands up? Does this mean we should offer them a limb or even some digits to appease them? What exactly does it mean if (big "if") Muslims can claim the moral high ground?

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#250 - 09/11/07 10:22 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
School Bully Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
I take the stance that Islam has always been at war with the Western world; it has always been at war with the non-Muslim globe.


Well, the last time I looked, Western coalition forces were in Afghanistan and Iraq, and are now threatening to bomb the shit out of Iran, while last year Israel bombed the shit out of Lebanon... seems to me that it is the Western world that is at war with Islam not the other way round.

In your search for inspiration, are you sure you've come to the right place, Ballbreaker? This is the 600 Club. The 700 Club is next door.

Outspoken US Christian evangelical broadcaster Pat Robertson has accused Muslims of planning world domination, and said some were "satanic".

On his live television programme, The 700 Club, he said radical Islamists were inspired by "demonic power".


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4805952.stm
_________________________
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#251 - 09/11/07 12:46 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: School Bully]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Unfortunately, Schoolbully, the position I've taken on these issues does not immediately afford me the luxury of choosing my allies; I believe, however, that Satanists and evangelists alike face a common threat.

 Quote:
Well, the last time I looked, Western coalition forces were in Afghanistan and Iraq, and are now threatening to bomb the shit out of Iran, while last year Israel bombed the shit out of Lebanon... seems to me that it is the Western world that is at war with Islam not the other way round.


This is a popular viewpoint but it is one that is ultimately shortsighted; history begins in the late 20th century in order to give the impression of the West as Arch-Aggressor.

What's curious is that so-called "Islamist/jihadist" doctrine was formulated before there was any significant Western involvement in the Middle East; neo-jihadism (I use the term because "jihadism" is inherent to Islam; I am speaking strictly of the doctrines put forth by men like Hassan al-Banna and Sayid Qutb) initially was focussed solely on removing unIslamic elements from society, and was not concerned with life in the West (theoreticians felt that impurity at home was more pressing than combatting infidels). These ideas arose as late as the 1920s, and as confidence in neo-jihadism grew, so did the ideological "enemy".

However, I would ask you the same question I put forth to Woland: let's assume for the sake of the argument that the West really has pushed Muslims to violence, that somehow we are responsible for their aggression (rather, self-defence): what does this imply for us? Does this mean we sign a peace, and with whom? Does this mean we pay a tribute to Muslim countries? Does this mean we convert en masse, as "Islamists" would have us do as a term of surrender, to Islam?

In fact, is there anything that we could do that would stop Muslims from working towards our destruction?

Now that the conflict is explicitly about more than the Palestine Question and a military presence in Saudi Arabia, and the conflict is in fact about who we are, what do we do to resolve this?

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#284 - 09/12/07 06:31 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Woland Moderator Offline
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My dear Ballbreaker.

You need to separate the man from the ball...

Islam as a religion is NOT peaceful or passive.
And in order to clarify my argument; neither is Xianity.

In fact; these two monoteistic religions are more alike, than different.
Probably one of the reason why orthodox socioreligious culturalists from both religions hate each other so much...
The historical practice of these religions (lets chuck in Judaism to make the holy trinity complete) has been a genocidal orgy.

Whether it is "Allah Akhbar" or "Gott mit uns" is neither here nor there.
These religions are as bloodstained and terrible as the worst demon their sickest leaders can possibly imagine.

Two of them (Judaism excluded) have a perverted "missionary" goal built in at the core of their construction.

"All people are to accept the only true religion, if they refuse they will/must perish".

This is as strong in Xianity as it is in Islam.

You seem to have read a bit of Islamic history.
Have you taken a closer look at Xian history?

Tripped over this link the other day:

The Resistance to Christianity.

Check it out.

When it comes to violent behaviour in the name of Our Lord, the Moslems have a thing or two to learn from Christendom.
We wrote the manual so to speak.
The odd decapitation or plane crash wont alter that fact.

Do you know where the origins of this well known saying?

"Kill them all, God will sort them out"

Ponder...


And; your remarks about the west pushing Islam to violence, and that "we" should not be tried for the sins of our father etc. are at best naive.

History will always be remembered, by both winners and losers.

To quote the poet:

"Revenge is a strong emotion
Friction is the mother of pearl
It's a disapproving, disappointing, disappearing world."

John Cooper Clarke

(A link to the complete poem...)


_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#286 - 09/12/07 11:03 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Woland]
ballbreaker Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
 Quote:
Whether it is "Allah Akhbar" or "Gott mit uns" is neither here nor there.
These religions are as bloodstained and terrible as the worst demon their sickest leaders can possibly imagine.

Two of them (Judaism excluded) have a perverted "missionary" goal built in at the core of their construction.


I agree that Christianity has had a bloody history and shares the same missionary component as Islam.

However, I am not ashamed to say that Christianity's origins were peaceful and simple. Furthermore (and what is an interesting fact about the evangelist movement today), early Christian scholars understood clearly that the New Testament did not entirely embody the literal word of Jesus and that the Gospels were meant to be recieved contextually.

I also feel that Europeans developed democracy and capitalism because of Christianity, rather than in spite of it. Does Islam have any redeeming qualities that might allow for cultural evolution? I don't believe so; I think that the religion puts its constituents at a significant disadvantage and this is manifested by the miserable conditions which every Islamic country is in. There is very little chance of civilizing many of the people within the Islamic world, in the hopes that they may put down their guns and Korans.

 Quote:
And; your remarks about the west pushing Islam to violence, and that "we" should not be tried for the sins of our father etc. are at best naive.


Why?

I asked what "we" should do, and you call me naive? What will you do to stop the people who want to destroy you...

Need I remind you: "Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!"

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#287 - 09/12/07 12:12 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Woland Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 764
Loc: Oslo, Norway
 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker

However, I am not ashamed to say that Christianity's origins were peaceful and simple.



The origin of Christianity is Judaism.
Peaceful and simple are not words that leaps on me when describing said religion...


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
Furthermore (and what is an interesting fact about the evangelist movement today), early Christian scholars understood clearly that the New Testament did not entirely embody the literal word of Jesus and that the Gospels were meant to be recieved contextually.



In what relation does this make an interesting fact about the evangelist movement of today?
Are you referring to the born-again right wing movement and their creative use of the "Word"?

And; can something as complex as the multiple directions within Christianity be narrowed down to one world view?
Can Islam?


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
I also feel that Europeans developed democracy and capitalism because of Christianity, rather than in spite of it.



Utter brainwashed bullshit.
Read up on pre-christian European society...


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
Does Islam have any redeeming qualities that might allow for cultural evolution? I don't believe so; I think that the religion puts its constituents at a significant disadvantage and this is manifested by the miserable conditions which every Islamic country is in.



Excuse me? Are we living on the same planet?
Ever heard about fossil fuel? OPEC?

Sure; many countries with Islam as its dominant religion, are in a pitiful economic state. Poor infrastructure. Poor educational system. This is of course a matter of grave concern.

There is little doubt that these conditions contribute heavily when it comes to fertilization of barren ground.
Thus making "the angry young man" easy prey for Islamist recruiting officers.

You will of course find the same mechanisms at work in any defective society.


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
There is very little chance of civilizing many of the people within the Islamic world, in the hopes that they may put down their guns and Korans.



"Guts, Guns & God made this country great!"

I simply do not see your point...
A Satanic virtue is to have an open mind.
Look for wrong doings an potential dangers in your OWN society.
It is to damn easy to point your finger at "The Others".
This is culturalism at its most distasteful.

We should discuss the big pink elephant in our living room.
Everybody KNOWS there is a big pink elephant in our living room!
But we cowardly choose not to address the existence of:

THE BIG PINK ELEPHANT IN OUR LIVING ROOM!


 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker


Why?

I asked what "we" should do, and you call me naive? What will you do to stop the people who want to destroy you...

Need I remind you: "Hate your enemies with a whole heart, and if a man smite you on one cheek, SMASH him on the other!; smite him hip and thigh, for self-preservation is the highest law!"


Nuke em?

Camp em up?

Straight for the ovens?

Well, I am in this strange and of course totally unrealistic situation.
I know several Moslems, and they simply do not want to destroy me.

Maybe Im the naive one.
But I fear Orthodox Christianity far more than Orthodox Islam.

In fact; I kinda admire the no bullshit attitude.
More Satanic than that little wimp from Bethlehem, thats for sure.
_________________________
Regards

Woland

Contra Mundum!

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#297 - 09/12/07 08:14 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
I think its a broad enough platform to unite radical leftists, libertarians, ultra-nationalists, and mainstreamers alike.


Hmm, this could be tough. If you listened to OBL's tape from 10 September he sounded a lot like the DU and MoveOn leftist crowd. Most 'big L' Libertarians are against this war as just so much military adventurism. Many nationalists feel the same way although most hate brown people enough to tolerate the war. And the mainstream? Nigga' please!

Good luck though. We do need a final solution to the Muslim problem.

Onward Xtian Soldiers!
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#317 - 09/13/07 05:38 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
I'm hardly a conspiracy theorist, but even the most hoodwinked of us here in the USA should know by now that that the enemy is not radical Islam...the real enemy is the economic-Colonialism spawned by our dependence on oil. This trait is the root cause of nearly every single war/military operation of the past century that the US has been involved in. The scapegoat has been Socialism, Imperialism, Communism, drug cartels, and the ever-present need to protect our always-threatened freedom. Hindsight is always 20/20, so heed these words from George Washington:

"The alternate domination of one faction over another, sharpened by the spirit of revenge, natural to party dissension, which in different ages and countries has perpetrated the most horrid enormities, is itself a frightful despotism. But this leads at length to a more formal and permanent despotism. The disorders and miseries which result gradually incline the minds of men to seek security and repose in the absolute power of an individual; and sooner or later the chief of some prevailing faction, more able or more fortunate than his competitors, turns this disposition to the purposes of his own elevation, on the ruins of public liberty."

And this from president Eisenhower:

"This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence economic, political, even spiritual is felt in every city, every Statehouse, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society."

Even peace-monger Jimmy Carter had this to say:

"Let our position be absolutely clear: An attempt by any outside force to gain control of the Persian Gulf region will be regarded as an assault on the vital interests of the United States of America, and such an assault will be repelled by any means necessary, including military force."

You have more to fear from your own country than from the illusion of organized Islamic militants.
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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