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#365 - 09/16/07 04:55 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
School Bully Offline

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 142
Loc: Melbourne
 Originally Posted By: ballbreaker
This is a popular viewpoint but it is one that is ultimately shortsighted; history begins in the late 20th century in order to give the impression of the West as Arch-Aggressor.

Yes, and oddly enough, one backed up by facts.

What's curious is that so-called "Islamist/jihadist" doctrine was formulated before there was any significant Western involvement in the Middle East; neo-jihadism (I use the term because "jihadism" is inherent to Islam; I am speaking strictly of the doctrines put forth by men like Hassan al-Banna and Sayid Qutb) initially was focussed solely on removing unIslamic elements from society, and was not concerned with life in the West (theoreticians felt that impurity at home was more pressing than combatting infidels). These ideas arose as late as the 1920s, and as confidence in neo-jihadism grew, so did the ideological "enemy".

However, I would ask you the same question I put forth to Woland: let's assume for the sake of the argument that the West really has pushed Muslims to violence, that somehow we are responsible for their aggression (rather, self-defence): what does this imply for us? Does this mean we sign a peace, and with whom? Does this mean we pay a tribute to Muslim countries? Does this mean we convert en masse, as "Islamists" would have us do as a term of surrender, to Islam?

In fact, is there anything that we could do that would stop Muslims from working towards our destruction?

Can't argue with that logic, I guess...

Now that the conflict is explicitly about more than the Palestine Question and a military presence in Saudi Arabia, and the conflict is in fact about who we are, what do we do to resolve this?

We slay the infidel, Ballbreaker!

#566 - 09/22/07 08:46 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: School Bully]
97and107 Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 280
Loc: New Mexico
There's no clear line in this one, there's stupid monkeys on both sides. My money is on The United States however, because, well, I live here.

I don't appreciate the bombing of the planet as it causes damage to the global ecosystem, which supports all life on earth.

I'm not lover of Islam either, but there is great beauty in Middle Eastern culture, I wish they could somehow recapture the glory of their youth, in the ghost lands of Sumer and Assyria. In essence, the religion of Islam doesn't strike me as something which will facilitate the upgrades the human race needs to survive in this extinction event we are experiencing currently. I love the appearance of the ladies over there, with the kohl lined eyes and the burqa. If I tried to wear one of those for amusement I would be shot at here in Memphis. Sad.

AH, my eyes see atrocities on both sides, and no end in sight, unless we can somehow begin to think outside of the box, for once. Gizzida, where are you? ^_^

#935 - 10/07/07 02:43 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Octavius]
Samuel Hain Offline

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: arkansas
Let us not forget that horribly obese, and Judeo-Christian idiot, one Rev. John Hagee. He is the author of the book Jerusalem Countdown and last Sunday I saw him advocate a nuclear first strike against Iran from the pulpit of his mega church as the moronic worshipers screamed approval in orgasmic intensity! It gets even worse and more psychotic! He even went to DC to lobby conservative republican types in favor of this insane plan!Are Americans that naive as to think we live in a under a bushel? Don't you think China and Russia will react violently to an American nuclear strike upon Iran? Its pretty damn close to their own nations, not to mention the fall out that would ensue.
#939 - 10/07/07 03:23 AM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Samuel Hain]
ICouldBuyYouAll Offline

Registered: 10/01/07
Posts: 21
Loc: Expensive
The only way to defeat Islamic extremism is from the inside out. We (The United States) are horribly mistaken in thinking that the "war" on terror can be won by well...War.

That's like trying to scare Mario Andretti with a race.


The Islamic culture by nature is a Warrior Culture, they have been fighting for one cause or the other for ages upon ages.

War? Extremist love that shit.

Especially against the west. It's in their history books that little kids read from a very early age.

And can tell you what they say in a nut shell:

"Americans are the infidel, and they like to kill your mothers and fathers, and they are inherently a threat to your way of life. They must die and you must kill them, it's your duty."

And as the boys grow older and they experience certain things, like their daddy being killed by Americans (because he was a terrorist) then it just reaffirms in that child's head that everything they have ever been told about America is true.

So those young boys grow up to be just like their father and when they have children, the cycle continues and it's a fucking vicious one.

That's the key to beating Islamic terrorist is to break that cycle and it all starts with changing what the children get put into their heads from day one.

That's the solution...but the other question is how does one go about doing that?

Well the bottom line is, is that it isn't up to America to get that ball rolling. We can't do that.

It's up to Islamic clerics to take responsibility for that because clerics shape the opinions of the faithful.

And until that happens don't expect things to get any better.

It's a long hard road out of the Middle East.
Point my finger at myself...I'm to blame. Point your finger at me...I'll break it.

#1130 - 10/16/07 11:35 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ICouldBuyYouAll]
ballbreaker Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
I don't think that there is any moral obligation to enlighten savages and prolong the experiment of the white man's burden. The question is whether crusading for democracy and capitalism will have practical benefits for us in the future; since old school colonialism is out of the question (practically) for now, we really need to consider what policy options will maximize benefits and minimize costs for us over the long term.

If it's correct to say that liberal democracies have a tendency to stay at peace with one another then it might well be in our long term interests to play soldier (or financier...we can get into the intricacies of democratic peace theory later). My point is that even though it isn't up to Western countries (ethically speaking) to civilize the 3rd World, we certainly can't leave it up to them.

#1131 - 10/16/07 11:41 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Samuel Hain]
ballbreaker Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
When analysts (nevermind televangelists) call for a nuclear strike on Iran they are talking about bombing military and industrial centres...maybe some major economic centres too. The point is "nuclear strike on Iran" does not mean that the geographic location of the Islamic Republic will literally become a smoking crater; it usually does not even mean regime change.

Any nuclear strike on Iran would not physically harm the Russians or the Chinese.

Would either "react violently"? The Chinese are the only ones with the potential to do so (i.e. crossing the Taiwan Strait), and only on account of their control of US currency; militarily there is really nothing anyone can do about anything the US does and this is no overstatement.

#1132 - 10/16/07 11:43 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: School Bully]
ballbreaker Offline

Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 134
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Your cartoon summarizes perfectly the reality of the international environment: bellum omnium contra omnes.
#1693 - 11/10/07 05:07 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: ballbreaker]
Meq Offline
active member

Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
One important point is this:

Islam is not subjectively true or false to an individual.
Islam is just false. Period.
It is based on a false model of the universe.
Relativism is bullshit.

This is not to dismiss esoteric interpretations of Islam, which may indeed contain meaningful and rational insight (such as the psychological insights in Sufi poets).

It is just to state that the fundamental principles of Islam are wrong. They are based around a superceded mythological view of the universe.
While it is true that 'we can never know for sure', we are forced by necessity to make sound reasoned decisions as to what is true or false about the universe. A belief in the fundamentals of Islam is based on faulty reasoning, blind leaps of faith and a buying into totalitarian dogma.

Although it is not exactly PC to say so:
Islam is bullshit.

Respect for believers is still pragmatically important - although reasonable respect does not go as far as refusing to rationally assess their core belief structures.
When believers ask for respect, they often really want critical views on their faith to be silenced.
However, as far as respect goes, it is sufficient to recognise that all human beings are at their own different stages of mental and intellectual growth, and so many are not perhaps ready to give up dogmatic faith.
However, there is nothing wrong with defending a rational view of the universe in explaining its incompatibility with orthodox religious dogma.

That is my philosophical take on this political issue, at least.

#1933 - 11/15/07 07:52 PM Re: Inspiration & Advice [Re: Meq]
jesusbeater Offline

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
Its all bullshit.Even by having the good intentions of dealing with the "problem" your group will not become part of the solution but merely another player in a game with a fixed ending.
My advice would be that no matter how admirable it is to see some one passionate enough to go through all the trouble of setting up an organisation, you should leave well alone and invest your precious time in enjoying your own life.
You are obviously an intelligent human being so why would you waste your time playing some one else's game.Start your own game and leave the insects(i.e the world) play at theirs.The troubles of man have only one solution and thats mass genocide.Muslims , Jews , Christian , Buddhists they are all the philosophies of the weak and the unevolved.Let them be and avoid interaction on any level it will ultimately drag you down.

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