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#18927 - 01/25/09 09:34 PM Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
(I am posting this in Satanism 101 because I feel it is a very basic principle of Satanism, yet as part of my book I see it as being very important in the sense that it will help people understand the rest of what I had to say better. This shouldn't really be anything new to most of you, or those of you who are familiar with basic Satanic concepts. By posting this I understand I'm subjecting myself to all types of criticism, and I want people to tear it apart (that is if what I wrote is not worthy of a plain review). Well anyway, enjoy, and remember when you reply to this, don't hold back or go easy on me.)



First off, what is a sin? Sinning is said to be any act against god's will for humanity. Now, believing in yourself as your own god (or realizing you are your own god) would suggest that a sin is any act against yourself. Therefore, your idea of sin is your own personal opinion. You may believe things like murder, theft, adultery, and so on are sins. However, all these things would have to be done by yourself with you KNOWING it is wrong considering your opinion on what a sin is. Therefore, any sinning would be a form of self-deceit. This means that to act against your will and what your sub-conscious feels is a sin, meaning ANY sin is self-deceitful, and what is worse than lying to yourself? All it does it cause an imbalance between your conscious and your sub-conscious, and this can lead to even more serious psychological problems in the sense that your sub-conscious is saying one thing, and your conscious mind is acting against it. This could alter your perception and eventually lead to serious mental illness. I would know, for am I speaking out of experience. Self control and being true to yourself is the most beneficial thing you can do to reaching your goal of becoming a god, for where does lying take you other than more moral corruption and more self-deceit? It is simply unnatural. Follow yourself and you will realize that the god within is the highest power of your existence.

Acting against your own will if self-deceitful. For example, if you know in the back of your head (your sub-conscious) using hard drugs will get you addicted and you understand it is a potentially harmful thing to do, and yet you have the attitude "fuck it" and smoke anyway, you are being untrue to yourself. You may notice that after these things you may feel a bit strange. Maybe you feel paranoid (referring to anything self-deceitful, not just drug use, which can lead to paranoia) or show other signs that may suggest you have a mental health problem. This is because the sub-conscious, which is programmed by the conscious mind, is trying to tell you what you are doing is wrong, leading to internal conflict. Second guessing yourself, self loathing, depression, anxiety, and stress all stem from internal conflict, and sometimes psychological problems can manifest themselves as physical problems. Perhaps you experience stomach pain or headaches for example. It is well known that stress can lead to these two things. Where stress really comes from isn't external, it is internal. It all has to do with how you react to the outside world. Sure external conflicts can cause stress, but it is from within that the stress starts to affect you. This means that by allowing a stressful environment to effect your conscious mind, it brings stress to your sub-conscious mind as well considering the fact that the conscious mind is responsible for "programming" your sub-conscious mind. Once the stress starts building up in your sub-conscious, you will find that you may experience mental health problems. Perhaps you have nightmares or experience depression and anxiety. It may also effect your so-called "day dreams", which is when the sub-conscious mind causes you to think about the stressful event and relive your reaction. This is what the cause of things such as depression is; an unbalanced mind. As I stated, it can affect you physically as well. It can actually cause problems with the neurotransmitters within the brain that control your mood and other aspects of your conscious state. Some believe this can actually cause the chemical reactions within the brain that create your emotions and thoughts to work improperly, which can even develop into serious mental illnesses such as bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.


With this said, self-deceit is clearly the worst thing a person could do to themselves, and thus should be regarded as the most deadly sin of all. It is the ONLY sin one can commit, for anything that is against your will IS self-deceit, and if you are your own god, self-deceit is lying to your god, the one who controls every single aspect of your life.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#18929 - 01/25/09 09:36 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
I would also like to add that if any of you actually like this or find it interesting, I can send you the rest of my writings. Enjoy.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#18944 - 01/26/09 12:22 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
It's alright Mike...

Now here's a little of the "criticism"...

The writing style is informal, which may be exactly how you wanted to approach this, so I'll just stop there.

A few minor grammatical things, like "if" for "is", but nothing glaringly obvious.

Content is decent, but if you are speaking with "authority", you may want to do some more research on mental health issues, drug addiction, and the subconscious models... give us the facts, Jack! I'm getting the feeling you're writing this as a "brain-child" straight outta your head, which is an admirable attempt...

Otherwise it was clear, well thought out, and your point gets across (and that's the most important thing in writing).

It was a little... dry, though. I think I got depressed just reading it... perhaps I have an imbalanced mind... oh, yeah, I do.

Thanks for sharing,

David.
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#18947 - 01/26/09 12:32 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: daevid777]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

all these things would have to be done by yourself with you KNOWING it is wrong considering your opinion on what a sin is. Therefore, any sinning would be a form of self-deceit.

Doing something, knowing full well it will have consequences, is not paramount to self deceit. It is paramount to stupidity.

Self deceit would be doing something harmful after having convinced yourself it is not harmful.

As the rest of your essay hinges on this idea, I would say it's time to get back to the drawing board.
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#18956 - 01/26/09 02:30 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Dan_Dread]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I'm assuming you have this on Microsoft Word, or some other such program? 'Cause you're gonna need it. Cut, paste, delete.

Always be sure to save your draft, though - sometimes stagnation can be cleared by revisiting the "original", if only to get some perspective... but if you plan for this to be an actual, marketable "book", you're going to have to do a lot more research, and perhaps, a lot more living.

good luck!
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#18960 - 01/26/09 06:09 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: daevid777]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
My suggestion, Mike, is to base your essay on a different concept than self-deceit, because as soon as you propose any of the Nine Satanic Sins (other than stupidity) as the linchpin for all the others, you invite immediate contradiction from anyone familiar with the Nine Satanic Sins.

In fact, I think you're actually reaching for a deeper understanding of stupidity. The second through ninth Satanic Sins are all aspects of stupidity. Pretentiousness is stupid. Solipsism is stupid. Self-deceit is stupid. Herd Conformity is stupid. Lack of Perspective is stupid. Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies is stupid. Counterproductive Pride is stupid. Lack of Aesthetics is stupid.

I think you're reaching for the core of what stupidity is. It can be expressed as allowing oneself to be misled, which is why self-deceit seems almost (but not quite) equivalent. We can allow ourselves to be misled by absorbing lies unquestioningly, but that isn't the only way we can do it. We can also do it by failing to gather information; by failing to process information per the laws of logic; by failing to assign information its proper relevance; by trying to spread false information that is easily debunked; by failing to make use of the valid information we have; by forgetting or disregarding old (yet valid) information when new information captures our attention; and by refusing to look at new (yet valid) information because it contradicts (or seems to contradict) the old.

The Satanist strives to be the Master of Information.

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#18968 - 01/26/09 09:12 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Zoid]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Well, thanks for your comments...However, I wasn't referring to the Nine Satanic Statements. I was referring to the 7 deadly sins. I think you may have misunderstood my point. Keeping this in mind, read it again and tell me what you think.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#18974 - 01/26/09 12:41 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
An interesting read, to be sure, even if it was a little confusing at times. You asked for it, here is my take on what you wrote:

While acting against your own will might be counter-productive, it is not necessarily self-deceit. Does a person ever really act against their will? (unless being forced to do something with threats of physical violence etc.) If you know that drugs can mess up your life etc. and you do them anyways; it is not that you are being untrue to yourself.

You know the action can have adverse consequences yet you do them anyway. Responsibility to the responsible. I know that drinking can cause damage to the liver and a whole laundry list of other ailments. I still choose to drink. Am I being untrue to myself or acting against my own will? Not in the least. I am acting in accordance with my will. That will being to have a few shots, catch a little buzz and enjoy myself.

Now, if I were to get completely smashed, and then convinced myself that it would be okay for me to drive and that I am not that drunk even though I know that I shouldn’t even be behind the wheel of a bumper car, and still drive; that would be a form of self-deceit. As well as a display of extreme stupidity.
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#18994 - 01/26/09 04:38 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Exactly, 666. It is completely impossible to act against your will. Anything you do is an act of will by default!
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#18996 - 01/26/09 04:54 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Exactly, 666. It is completely impossible to act against your will. Anything you do is an act of will by default!



The "sin" in it is indeed in trying to tell yourself that you had no choice. There are always choices, sometimes not the optimum, but choices still, even if that choice is to lose it all.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#18998 - 01/26/09 05:24 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Jake999]
Meq Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
The "sin" in it is indeed in trying to tell yourself that you had no choice. There are always choices, sometimes not the optimum, but choices still, even if that choice is to lose it all.

This is a similar concept to Jean-Paul Sartre's notion of "bad faith", or Heidegger's concept of "inauthenticity".

It is often daunting to realize the huge amount of choices we could actually take - each with its own consequences.

The existentialists thought many people preferred to view themselves as helpless (in 'bad faith') than take on the burden of choice with its responsibilities.
As Sartre said, failing to choose is still a choice.

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#19001 - 01/26/09 05:57 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Anything you do is an act of will by default!


Not necessarily. As I mentioned, an unbalance of emotion or thoughts can result in certain mental illness. As I stated, I understand this very well. When I mentioned that acting against your will can cause problems, I was referring to the people already dealing with problems, for in some cases compulsive thoughts or feelings can force you to do things against your will in the sense that you have no control over your actions. In same cases however, you can be torn into two positions where your will is to do one thing, yet subconsciously do something different, whether it be out of habit or a compulsion brought about by anything. Particularly with people who suffer schizophrenia there is definitely ways for them to act against their will and do things they don't want to do but can't help it. For example, if you have compulsive thoughts, they can manifest themselves as compulsive actions in which if you wash your hands, dry them, and you know they're clean and know you don't have to wash them again but the feeling of having to wash them again causes so much irritation that you would have to wash your hands again, you would be involuntarily doing something that is not in accordance to your will. In my opinion, this is acting out of your will. The same would go for those suffering from O.C.D. or possibly even tourettes syndrome as it is compulsions that drive people to do what they have no control over. Perhaps I made it unclear, but this was my point.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19003 - 01/26/09 06:18 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Not necessarily.

Yes, necessarily. Are you really arguing this?

In order to do something, anything, you must will yourself to do it. Whether you feel guilty about it before after or during is of absolutely no relevance.Whether others deem where your will takes you normal or 'mentally ill' doesn't either. It is impossible to act against your own will. Even if you have a gun to your head, any action you take is still of your own free will.


 Quote:

it is compulsions that drive people to do what they have no control over.

If you really believe you have no control, then it really is self deceit. You always have control. To believe otherwise is a cop out. It is really the hallmark of todays society to blame everything and everyone but ones self for their own actions.

Your point was perfectly clear, I just don't agree.
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#19004 - 01/26/09 06:50 PM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Your point was perfectly clear, I just don't agree.


Fine. I can respect that. But speaking from experience, there are many instances where someone cannot be in control of even their thoughts. I've explained this to you before. Believing the irrational thoughts you know are due to some chemical mix up would fall under self-deceit in my book. It's hard to explain exactly what it's like to experience certain delusional experience to someone who has never experienced them. There are also no psychoactive substances that would mimic the effect either, so for one to fully understand it would require you to experience it first hand. This is why I can make such statements and arguments. If you read the rest of what I wrote in my book, you would probably have a better understanding of exactly how the mind of someone like me works. Message me if you're interested in reading it (this goes to everybody, I'm going public with this now apparently). There's no need keep it private.


Edited by Mike (01/26/09 06:50 PM)
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19068 - 01/27/09 02:19 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
 Quote:
...and you know they're clean and know you don't have to wash them again but the feeling of having to wash them again causes so much irritation that you would have to wash your hands again, you would be involuntarily doing something that is not in accordance to your will.


Do they "know" their hands are "clean"?

Being from a somewhat medical background, I could argue that it is completely impossible to "sterilize" the skin... aside from putting your recently amputated hands inside an autoclave, or directly into a 500 degree oven... normal flora, transient flora, retouching of the faucet, touching anything, like the keyboard...

Yeah, this wasn't the argument... was it?

Mike, I don't know what kind of crazy you were (are), but exposing that to the "world", and then attempting to argue points of "rationalism"... is dangerous territory.

That would be your greatest argument in "self-deceit"...

I'd say, be selective, unless you're looking for some sort of "catharsis", then who am I to judge... have at thee, with youthful abandon!!

Just be careful.
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#19104 - 01/27/09 06:10 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Mike
Well, thanks for your comments...However, I wasn't referring to the 9 satanic statements. I was referring to the 7 deadly sins. I think you may have misunderstood my point. Keeping this in mind, read it again and tell me what you think.



Self-deceit is one of the Nine Satanic Sins, which are distinct from the Nine Satanic Statements, and also are distinct from the seven deadly sins. Here are the seven deadly sins: pride, envy, sloth, lust, greed, gluttony, wrath (or malice).

I'm taking the time to explain this because the forum is Satanism 101.

The seven deadly sins are a Roman Catholic construct, first formulated in their entirety by Pope Gregory the First in the year 590 Anno Domini, which LaVey somewhat obliquely references in the eighth of his Nine Satanic Statements.

If you plan to write a book on Satanism, I suggest you first obtain and give serious study to these three lists, which can be found at the back of Blanche Barton's "The Secret Life of a Satanist" -

1. The Nine Satanic Statements

2. The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth

3. The Nine Satanic Sins


Once you aspire to be published on the subject of Satanism you set yourself up to be ridiculed if you don't do your homework first. Authors are held to a high standard of scholarship and the above would be the barest minimum your prospective audience would expect you to have studied.

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#19106 - 01/27/09 07:02 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: daevid777]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Mike, I don't know what kind of crazy you were (are), but exposing that to the "world", and then attempting to argue points of "rationalism"... is dangerous territory.


I was referring to my exposing my book...hahah.
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19107 - 01/27/09 07:12 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Zoid]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
I'm taking the time to explain this because the forum is Satanism 101.


As if you're so far beyond my level of understanding, which you show in all of your 12 posts...But hey, you speak and I'll listen (read) and maybe learn something.


 Quote:
Authors are held to a high standard of scholarship and the above would be the barest minimum your prospective audience would expect you to have studied.


Meanwhile, you contribute absolutely nothing of value, and your advice wasn't very helpful at all. You reminded me of things I already know. Thanks for the feedback though.

Btw, all you explained was where the stuff I already knew came from, which I knew of already. My point was that self-deceit is the worst sin of all for the Satanist. I really don't see what your point is, no offense.

 Quote:
If you plan to write a book on Satanism, I suggest you first obtain and give serious study to these three lists, which can be found at the back of Blanche Barton's "The Secret Life of a Satanist" -


My book is finished number one, and it's not all about Satanism. I mention it a few times, and provide the explanation of the basic elements of Satanism, but not all of it is about Satanism. It's mostly my own ideas.

Number two, I thought you were going to explain something. I am familiar with those three lists of course, and again in my essay I was referring to self-deceit as the only true sin for a Satanist. I suppose it's a matter of opinion, and this was mine.


Edited by Mike (01/27/09 07:16 AM)
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-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19108 - 01/27/09 07:58 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Mike]
Gratikus Offline
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Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 61
I like it, especially the part about self-deceit leading to mental disorders. With that said, I don’t think self-deceit and self-destruction have anything to do with each other. Some of the greatest risk takers in history, say Hannibal (in his actions of bringing an entire Elephant-equipped army through the Alps) would be looked upon as being self-destructive if they had failed in their bold actions. So to me, self-destruction can only be determined after the fact, anything before this is mere value judgement.

Self-deceit is pretty simple to understand, it’s lying to yourself about your true emotions and thoughts. What are our “true” emotions and thoughts? It’s the point at which our subconscious mind (much of which is hidden and unknown to us) and our conscious mind merge. This point of merger between subconscious mind and conscious mind is the point of “Satanic truth.”

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#19109 - 01/27/09 08:19 AM Re: Is Self-Deceit The Worst "Sin" of All? --- Essay [Re: Gratikus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:

Self-deceit is pretty simple to understand, it’s lying to yourself about your true emotions and thoughts. What are our “true” emotions and thoughts? It’s the point at which our subconscious mind (much of which is hidden and unknown to us) and our conscious mind merge. This point of merger between subconscious mind and conscious mind is the point of “Satanic truth.”


Yes, exactly! That's the message I was trying to get across. Although instead of "Satanic truth", I placed it with the word "enlightenment". It is also when you can control your thoughts. Just like you said, "It’s the point at which our subconscious mind (much of which is hidden and unknown to us) and our conscious mind merge". When they merge, you are at one with your inner self, or your god and are then able to control both your conscious mind and subconscious mind. This is one of the major points I wrote about. Some may disagree with this, however, it is not Satanic ideology (to some extent). These are just my thoughts on the topic.


 Quote:
I don’t think self-deceit and self-destruction have anything to do with each other.


Well being untrue to yourself in my opinion is self-destructive, for you're acting against your own will which can be seen as destructive in the sense that you're contradicting yourself. As I stated, it can cause imbalance which can lead to disorder, and it's the disorder that is destructive.


Edited by Mike (01/27/09 08:25 AM)
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