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#19198 - 01/28/09 01:05 PM Idiots who breed.
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
I'm short on time, and I have a lot to say about the topic, but I am truly sick of receiving the "I'm having a baby!" messages ever since the outbreak of celebrity baby-mamas.

I have watched many of these soon-to-be parents "develop" over the years, and it scares the hell out of me that they will soon be responsible for someone else's life. Meanwhile, there seems to be a large group of intellectual and career oriented types who have solemnly vowed never to breed.

My question: Is it socially irresponsible to let the next generation grow up with incapable parents and propagate the generalized failure of mankind? Or are we sparing our own children from a horrible fate?

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#19199 - 01/28/09 01:15 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
There are definately people who shouldn't be breeding, and it is somewhat irresponsible to allow them to have kids but we can't exactly stop them. Maybe it is time we brought back the process of sterilization.

I knew a guy who had 5 kids before he was 25. This guy used to be my friend until he started pumping out all these kids, kids he could not afford. He was constantly borrowing money that was never repayed so I cut him off. This last xmas he had the nerve to tell me his entire year was ruined because I wouldn't give him any money when he asked for it. Naturally I lost it, and ended up telling him that it isn't might fault he keeps having kids when he cant even hold down a fucking job for more than a month. I haven't heard from him since and my life has been a lot smoother.

There is a movie, Idiocracy, I see that becoming reality if we don't stem the mass reproduction of all the stupid people.
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#19200 - 01/28/09 01:25 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Sordid Archetype Offline
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Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
You know, it's funny you say that. I have been wondering a similar thing for quite some time now. Maybe it was 2 years ago or so that I was wandering through Borders and I suddenly came across "Pregnancy for Dummies."

Alright, albeit I understand the purpose of such a book, but Pregnancy for Dummies? Really? Can't you just feel the sardonic ironic as a tightly wrapped pall one might feel they can't remove?

I'll be honest, it sickens me as well. It seems that these days there is a cultivating of this diseased type of animal - a class that almost seems to be right out of Brave New World perhaps. The troubling part is that these people don't just affect simply themselves. I know people who choose not to work proper jobs, not because they can't but simply because they think it too difficult or troublesome. And furthermore, they then seek aid from the government, and have babies to fill quotas for further aid, wasting the money of taxpayers for what exactly?

I'm not about to say every situation is going to be thus, but you have to admit that it happens far too often for one to be comfortable with it.

If you are not even capable of supporting yourself, why choose to breed?
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#19203 - 01/28/09 01:39 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Sordid Archetype]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Sordid Archetype
Alright, albeit I understand the purpose of such a book, but Pregnancy for Dummies? Really? Can't you just feel the sardonic ironic as a tightly wrapped pall one might feel they can't remove?


I know exactly how you feel. It is like how condoms come with instructions. I have always felt that if you need instructions to figure out how to use a condom, you should NOT be having sex.
Kind of like this warning label I saw on a curling iron once that said, "Do not insert into any orifice". Im sure they had to put that on their for liability reasons, the same reason the disposable coffee cups warn you that the contents may be hot; but things of that nature should be obvious. It is just further evidence that our society is becoming stupider with every season of American Idle. (that was an intentional mispelling, if you don't get it. You might very well be the type of person I am talking about)
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#19205 - 01/28/09 02:07 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
its a fine line folks.

obviously there's a great number of people we wouldn't judge as being fit to be parents.
(i work with a guy who has 6 kids by 5 mothers. he would be on the short list.)

but, this is not China. to limit or enforce or even monitor child bearing would be pure undiluted fascism.

a better solution, in a make-believe utopia, would be to abolish welfare for those whose only disability is chronic pregnancy, and to enforce the various "deadbeat dad" laws that are already on the books.

that said, it will never happen. and in times of economic hardship people will breed even more. drinking, fucking, gambling, and stealing are about to skyrocket worldwide.

nows a good time to start investing in baby product industries.

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#19241 - 01/28/09 09:46 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
The Australian government introduced a "Baby Bonus Scheme" as an incentive for people to have more children to boost the economy - $6000 a baby.

Now, nearly every woman I see around here thats of breeding age are just pumping them out- two in the pram, and another one on the way('Can hardly wait till I drop this bundle Hank, then we can get that Flat-screen we've been hangin' for")

All I see is a bunch of walking incubators.

Too many idiots are being given cash incentives to multiply over here,the stupid breeding with the brain-dead in SO many cases, and a clear example of the able-bodied being forced to indulge the inept- they'd rather stay home and stay constantly pregnant, sucking off the tit of the Tax-payer instead of getting out and doing some real work, or using their brains.

Stop the cash flow, and at least implement some kind of test to see whether half of these fuckwits are capable of nurturing a houseplant, let alone a child.. there is too much child abuse/neglect going on to live by the adage that "everyone has the right to have a child"

Maybe a more extreme measure would be implementing compulsory birth control for all,and performing a "competency test" and undergoing a physical /mental evaluation before being able to breed.

A pipe dream, I know. ;\)
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#19251 - 01/29/09 12:29 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: spiderbreeder]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
What the balls?!?!? So basically they're saying "ok, so in exchange for bringing a time-consuming and money-devouring little bundle of stress into your life, which will prove to be a near-lifelong financial burden, we'll give you a nickel." CONGRATU-FUCKING-LATIONS. Way to go, Austrailia.

Not to insult anybody who has kids, but seriously, the incentive bonus is an absolute joke. Only morons would go for it... which would mean more morons would be reproducing....
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#19253 - 01/29/09 01:05 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: The Zebu]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
That's EXACTLY what the stupid pricks over here have done!

I think the incentive bonus here is a nauseating concept, and too many morons are going for it-I'm referring to the losers that have never worked for a living or contributed anything remotely worthwhile to themselves or society all gleefully pouncing on this incentive and reproducing a new generation of losers who grow up watching Mum and Dad parasitically leeching off society,not working for themselves, or doing anything constructive.

Their spawn are going to act no different,but hey it's the norm!
It's all they know, and it's all a lot of them are ever going to know while the Aussie Gov' continue to keep championing irresponsibility.

I respect peoples need to merge themselves and their genuine loved one into a "cute little replica"- IF their dedicated to the needs of the child, and what it really entails to help them grow into a constructive, well adjusted adult, but there are too many imbecilic people replicating themselves out there, with Federal encouragement in Oz's case.

The staggering amount of illiterate children in the Australian education system is a woeful testimony to idiots being allowed to breed.


Edited by spiderbreeder (01/29/09 01:07 AM)
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#19261 - 01/29/09 04:36 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: spiderbreeder]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: spiderbreeder
The Australian government introduced a "Baby Bonus Scheme" as an incentive for people to have more children to boost the economy - $6000 a baby.


Utterly insane. Or perhaps "udderly" to invoke the cow image.

A sane proposal would be to target the top scientists and mathematicians and offer them $600,000 for each kid.

 Originally Posted By: spiderbreeder

Now, nearly every woman I see around here thats of breeding age are just pumping them out- two in the pram, and another one on the way('Can hardly wait till I drop this bundle Hank, then we can get that Flat-screen we've been hangin' for")

All I see is a bunch of walking incubators.


What a nightmare.


 Originally Posted By: spiderbreeder

Maybe a more extreme measure would be implementing compulsory birth control for all,and performing a "competency test" and undergoing a physical /mental evaluation before being able to breed.


Precisely what I would advocate. I would add this thought. Many scientists and mathematicians may be poor candidates for parenthood because they lack the necessary nurturing skills. Wherever that turned out to be the case, I would hire people to raise the children. But I would always do everything I could to encourage scientists and mathematicians to breed.

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#19267 - 01/29/09 06:57 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
Many scientists and mathematicians may be poor candidates for parenthood because they lack the necessary nurturing skills.

This is one of the most stupid assumptions I ever heard in my life!
Why would scientists and mathematicians be poor candidates for parenthood? Because you ASSUME they are at average asocial? Because you ASSUME they have less psychological skills?
Dude, that's just plain bullshit.

 Quote:
A sane proposal would be to target the top scientists and mathematicians and offer them $600,000 for each kid.

If you knew just a little bit more about science you wouldn't have made this statement. Smart parents doesn't necessary breed intelligent children.


Edited by Dimitri (01/29/09 06:59 AM)
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#19270 - 01/29/09 07:47 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
While it would be wonderful to dump a load of sterilizers in the water supplies of ghettos and trailer parks, I think it would work against a country's best interest.

Take a look at Japan, where their birth rates have slowed to the point where there are now more elderly people than babies born to replace them. Companies like Canon have decided that twice a week, their employees will be sent home a few hours early, in order to reconnect with their families and hopefully produce some new babies.

It's been happening for some time now in virtually every industrialized country. Even the US is teetering on the edge, with a birth rate of 2.05.

There are plenty of smart kids that are born to dumb-assed parents, just as there are stupid kids that go and get themselves killed by drinking drain cleaners, are born to wealthy, successful parents. It's all about education, and making sure it's available for all.

If the stupids do all the breeding for us (not saying that everyone with children are stupid, by any means!), then that takes the onus of keeping the replacement birth rates off of our backs, and we can be free to indulge in our selfishness as we see fit. That's how I look at it anyway, as I really don't like being around kids, and don't want my body to go to shit from having one.
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#19273 - 01/29/09 10:10 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Sordid Archetype Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
It's beginning to occur to me that maybe this is nature's way of creating some sort of equilibrium to the situation. I mean, there are 6+ billion people in the world right? Maybe all of these stupid people are now breeding to cause mass havoc, possibly wars due to failing economies that are insufficient at maintaining the compulsions of the lesser masses, and then with the death rates rocketing everything evens out. Of course that's entirely dependent on a myriad of uncommented factors; I just thought I'd throw it out there though. My mind often runs on these pointless tangents.
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#19277 - 01/29/09 11:44 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Sordid Archetype]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Sordid Archetype
It's beginning to occur to me that maybe this is nature's way of creating some sort of equilibrium to the situation.

I had the same thought this morning while I was driving to work. Maybe all of these anti-children advocates are just natures way of balancing everything out... though I don't think it's going to cause any sort of mass havoc. I do however feel that it's a strain on those of us who opt out. I mean, why does MY tax bill have to get jacked up because little bobby's mommy or daddy can't figure out a place to live? And do they really need to be rewarded for their failures with luxury apartments while the rest of us struggle to survive? It hardly seems like a fair trade off.

I'll admit my parents were both screw ups. I think I turned out OK in spite of that... it just cost me a fortune in therapy.

Perhaps the thought of mankind evolving into an Ant colony has been a bit too heavy for me to accept... But the more I think about it... maybe we've always been one and I'm just waking up now.
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#19363 - 01/30/09 01:07 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Good, thank you Nemesis...

This was starting a bit like the Eugenics thread, or Satanism vs. Nazism for about 2 seconds...

Jesus.

How about no encouragement, no discouragement?

I posted something like this a while back, so please excuse me, if you've read it before...

When we had our twins... not on purpose! Not trying!!!!

Boy and a girl... believe me, we weren't ready, not even for one.

So this macho Mexican guy with whom I used to work, and this isn't about his race, although it is worth mentioning in this case... tells me "You got lucky, man." "I have three daughters, and if it wasn't for my son..."

I didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. I just nodded and smiled...

My wife actually had to decode for me later his unspoken words... "He's a man, he wants a son to carry his name, the 'family' name.".

I never, ever thought about this in my life, and I was taken aback, realizing my ignorance on so many levels.

I just wanted a "healthy" kid... I wasn't even thinking about preserving "myself", or my 'family name' for future generations. This is obviously important, now, I guess. I'm glad I have a son, and that the "family" name will go on in this particular vein... I'm mostly just happy they look more like her.

Do I have a point? Really? What the hell was it?

Anyway, I'm sure this may mean something to someone, any "macho men" out there, or "macho women"?


Edited by daevid777 (01/30/09 01:12 AM)
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#19368 - 01/30/09 01:54 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: daevid777]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
Well you know daevid,.. after reading the mexican guy thing.
I couldn't help it but just think his son might turn out to be gay....
So far his remarks..
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#19370 - 01/30/09 02:11 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I think he would disown him, divorce his wife, and try, try again...

Or start drinking heavily...

He had the best of intentions, though, and he was a good guy, I just didn't understand the "culture"... my very own culture, behind such talk. So, in that light, I hope his son has a child, and "may their first one be a 'masculine' child". I don't think this sort of ideal is limited to those of Mexican, or Italian descent, though... or for that matter, any of my swarthy brethren.

Looking on the other side of my family tree, I see the same longing... the "traditional" name-giving for my Norse brethren... Erik-sen (son of Erik or Erick), Nielsen, Paulsen, Davidson, Olson... etc. Of course, this dies out immediatlely after the first generation, so... I don't know... the Danish government changed this a while back, insisting upon a standarized format for the last names, I don't know if this was good or bad.
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#19375 - 01/30/09 04:35 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: daevid777]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
the woman who just had 8 babies has 6 more at home. where she lives with her parents.

read the comments too.

link

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#19378 - 01/30/09 05:48 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
If you knew just a little bit more about science you wouldn't have made this statement. Smart parents doesn't necessary breed intelligent children.


Probably because they were poor parents. Intelligence appears to be driven both by nature and nurture. But neither can be ignored.

If you go back to my original post you'll note I used the word "may" and the phrase "wherever that would be the case" as signals that I wasn't making a universal generalization about absolutely all scientists or absolutely all mathematicians. Nevertheless, good parenting of a young child includes the willingness to spend a lot of time focused on the young child and communicating directly and prolifically with that child to the exclusion of other interests. Filling the kid's ear with the local language is a major predictor of the kid's future success in academia. Presumably you've encountered scientists and/or mathematicians who are willing to do that sort of thing. I haven't. I suppose psychologists or anthropologists might view it as an experiment in their field and thus find it stimulating.

I would like to see a test where a collective of brilliant parents breed and their offspring are given the optimum nurturance with regard to developing intelligence. Given that conjunction of nature and nurture, I would predict a very high degree of success in producing brilliant kids.

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#19379 - 01/30/09 05:52 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
Dude, spare me your loosy explanation.
You made a stupid statement and trying to talk your ass out isn't going to help.
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#19382 - 01/30/09 06:07 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
While it would be wonderful to dump a load of sterilizers in the water supplies of ghettos and trailer parks, I think it would work against a country's best interest.


I agree that it would be wonderful and disagree with the latter portion of your comment. More below.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

Take a look at Japan, where their birth rates have slowed to the point where there are now more elderly people than babies born to replace them. Companies like Canon have decided that twice a week, their employees will be sent home a few hours early, in order to reconnect with their families and hopefully produce some new babies.


This assumes a shrinking population is bad. I don't see the logic of that, especially in an over-crowded country like Japan.

The only reason we need more people is to buy more products in our consumer-driven society. I'd rather find a new kind of society that isn't consumer-driven. I want less people in general, far more smart people as a percentage of the total, far less stupid people as a percentage of the total, and fewer mediocre people, period, because I want less people. I live in New Jersey and the roads and stores are way too crowded for my taste. The roads in particular are dangerous and tedious because far too many cars are using them simultaneously.


 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

There are plenty of smart kids that are born to dumb-assed parents...


Depends on what you mean by "plenty" as I would expect the percentage to be well below one percent of the total. Also depends on what you mean by "dumb-assed" and what you mean by "smart"...

Taking the most extreme meanings for your words, the percentage of kids born to two drooling idiots who grow up to be scientists or mathematicians would surely be vanishingly small, perhaps zero, for reasons both of nature and nurture.

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#19394 - 01/30/09 09:39 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
I think anyone should be allowed to mate with whomever they choose. But with that said I think there should be a greater effort to educate people into what reproducing actually entitles to the whole of Humanity in the long run. "Having a baby" is an idea that has become romanticized in recent times.

I think what a lot of people (especially young girls who let whatever schmuck impregnate them) don't realize is that their bringing more than a little bundle of joy into the world, their creating an ENTIRELY NEW HUMAN BEING that they are partially responsible for instilling morals and values into. Their baby wont be a baby forever, so the question is what direction their child will move into when it reaches adulthood. What purpose would it serve to have another one of them running around in the world to begin with. Having another Human animal pop out of someone isn't any remarkable task in itself. Having that Human grow up into somebody worthwhile is what matters.
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#19402 - 01/30/09 12:43 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
My concern about a country or particular group of people replenishing itself has nothing to do with economics. It stems from the fact that when a civilization dies out, another comes along to take it's place. The aforementioned civilization might be lucky enough to have made it into the history books, otherwise all of their achievements would come to naught.

For example, if the birth rate of white people in the US doesn't stay at 2 or higher, we will be out-bred and overrun by Mexicans. Even if one didn't take into account the number of illegals coming across the border, are already well on their way to replacing us as the next majority. They are already the largest minority, out-pacing even blacks.

So yes, while would be most beneficial for our mental health and the state of our planet to have less people, take into account what that might mean in the long run.
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#19410 - 01/30/09 03:22 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
the woman who just had 8 babies has 6 more at home. where she lives with her parents. read the comments too. link

Great article Bacchae... I especially liked the comment "I can't believe she had these kids because her life was missing something. PAY ATTENTION TO THE SIX YOU HAVE!"

It also exposes another facet to this topic- is science interfering with what could be interpreted as the natural selection process? If a I try and try and try (woohoo!) and still can't have children, do I turn to fertility drugs and IVF to make it happen?

Tricky... because the social aspect of it says to me: Yeah, sure go for it. As long as the kid is healthy- if someone went though all of that trouble they must really, really want it. So (in theory) they're going to give this kid all of the attention and love it needs.

But on the flip side, I feel like there must be some reason the process was defunct in the first place.

I'll use myself as an example so as not to offend anyone. In theory I'm freaking awesome. Grade A Genetics: 10 fingers 10 toes, fairly normal organs, and more importantly, I have great hair. But oops, my ovaries are broken. So doc tells me I'll need to run all kinds of crazy interference if I ever want to reproduce. I like to tell myself that maybe the world just can't handle such supreme awesomeness... but maybe there's more to it. Maybe its because I can't keep a plant alive for over 48 hours. Or maybe it has something to do the fact that I come from a long (and almost completely extinct) line of daredevils and psychopaths. Maybe, just maybe, something is putting a stop to this bloodline of crazies. Or maybe it's just radiation from New Jersey.

Lots of maybes there.
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#19415 - 01/30/09 06:09 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Here in Australia, and now on this board, I hear so many people saying that everyone and their dog is just having kids to get the measly $6k from the government (as apposed to the 2.5k is was), but I personally don't see any evidence of this.

The government was trying to get people to have more kids, as like Japan, we are an aging population, we don't let in any illegals and if we don't want to have to let in alot more immigrants, then the government had to do something.

And $6k really doesn't go very far towards raising a child, so anyone who would have a child so they got $6k to spend on TV's are in for a rude awakening, when the cost of raising said child, runs into alot more than that in the first year alone.

I tend to think that the majority of people are not quite THIS stupid.

The thing is, as much as it might give some a good feeling to bitch about who should be allowed to have children and who shouldn't, utopia's with licenses and the like, what is any of it really acheiving? Sweet FA as far as I can see.

With all our scientific meddling into reproduction, it still stands that there are no where near as many children being born that are not wanted. For all the births that wouldn't have happened without IVF, are the many that didn't because of terminations and birth control methods.

Personally, it is my opinion that as long as a child is wanted, then it is warranted. It is a crap shoot as to sex, health and intelligence.

There is no one on this board that I would want to be making the decisions on who got to have kids and who didn't. It's subjective and will never be taken seriously.

Zeph
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#19419 - 01/30/09 06:50 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Maybe its because I can't keep a plant alive for over 48 hours. Or maybe it has something to do the fact that I come from a long (and almost completely extinct) line of daredevils and psychopaths. Maybe, just maybe, something is putting a stop to this bloodline of crazies. Or maybe it's just radiation from New Jersey.

Lots of maybes there.


Yes, a lot of maybes, but don't feel so down about it. There's no special force that is going to prevent you from reproducing because your not "fit" to have an offspring, it's more than likely a genetic screw up that you had no control over (unless there was an accident involved). Whether or not you would make a fit parent is debatable. Most parents (or mine at least) pick up from what their parents did for them and learn over time how to be a responsible parent. I'm not saying you would be a good or bad parent, I'm just saying that the problems you may have with reproducing are most likely a mere work of nature. And even that doesn't mean there's no possibility of bearing offspring. With all of the advancements in science and new methods being observed as we speak, you may be able to reproduce without any problems at all. For example, scientists are always discovering new ways to get around medical problems. Just the other day I was reading an article on how people living in Europe in the 1600's that survived the black plague had the same mutated gene as those who are immune to HIV. Scientists are now trying to mimic this gene, called "delta 32", to come up with a cure for HIV that prevents it from ever entering your body. I may be sounding over optimistic here, but I'm sure in the near future people in your situation may have nothing to worry about. Just look at how far we've come.
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#19420 - 01/30/09 06:56 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Mike]
Sordid Archetype Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
Mike, I think you may have misunderstood what Candyjesus was getting at.

Just because we have the technology to overcome such a thing, does that me we should?

 Originally Posted By: Candyjesus
But on the flip side, I feel like there must be some reason the process was defunct in the first place.


The question becomes, how much is advancement and how much becomes degradation?
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#19426 - 01/30/09 08:39 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Sordid Archetype]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Just because we have the technology to overcome such a thing, does that me we should?


If that "thing" is having a child and the person "wants to" overcome not being able to, they yes, of course.

I understood what she was saying. Maybe you just misunderstood me.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19427 - 01/30/09 10:12 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Mike]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Could we should we. Depends on your standpoint. Some feel it "wrong" to take someones free will. I do not. I find it incredibly appropriate to take ones free will if it is inconvenient for me to allow them to excersize it. Do people have a right to bear children? Yes, because they have the ability to do so. If you have the ability, you have the right. Do people have a right to bear children if it is going to have an undesired effect on the life of you, myself, and so on? Only if you let them. YOU("YOU" when capitalized referes to all who read this)have EVERY right to take the "free will" of another to preserve your own comfort or way of life. You are not indebted to them nor do you owe them the resposibility of footing a bill of ANY sort. Survival of the fittest. Give me a GOOD reason why irresposible people should be give the same rights as those who have shown the ability to hold their own.
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#19428 - 01/30/09 10:23 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: blsk]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
What qualifies a person as irresponsible?
What qualifies a person as infringing on your "comfort"?

Can you flesh this out a bit more? At exactly what point do you remove their "free will" and how does that solve anything if you have to allow them to procreate BEFORE you know if their offspring are going to "infringe on your comfort"?

What are you going to do with all these kids that made you uncomfortable in the first place?

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#19429 - 01/30/09 10:48 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ceruleansteel]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
What qualifies a person as irresponsible? Excellent question. It is a bit more complex, circumstancial if you will, than a black and white description of irresposible. Generations of couch-potatoes is one I will go with here for the sake of argument. It is irresponsible to have children raising them to "plug in" to the habbit of being a social parasite. People who have no forsight or grasp on the "big picture" of progress and developement simply give birth to bottomless stomaches. Yes there is a chance that just because the parents are worthless doesn't guarantee that the child will follow suit, just the same as a scientist or mathmatician will provide the next big physicist. However I, nor anyone else, is obligated to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they already have children who have proven family failure to be repetative.


What qualifies a person as infringing on your "comfort"? Easy, if I did not offer yet they take, THAT infringes on my comfort. Welfare is an example. I did not offer. Yes, in a way I condone it by paying taxes, but unfortunately we do not choose where that money goes. There are far more things I can think of to spend my money on than "them."


(What are you going to do with all these kids that made you uncomfortable in the first place?)

-Cut them off. Life is all about proving yourself. Prove yourself deserving of help and you will soon find you do not need it. To answer your question, I will do nothing with all the kids, nature will. It will starve them to death.



Edited by blsk (01/30/09 10:51 PM)
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#19441 - 01/31/09 02:06 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: blsk]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I suspect you don't have any kids...

And... you shouldn't, especially in your current state.

This whole argument, I predict, is about to get really ugly, so I will choose self-control by not adding or trying to detract from it at this point.

But I will say this...

Some of you people are "out of your minds" kinda-nuts... if only your parents thought the same way...
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#19449 - 01/31/09 06:50 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: daevid777]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
I really see no reason why procreation should be viewed as a right rather than a privilege. Driving a car is a privilege and requires a license, and one must fulfill certain requirements before the license is granted. Procreation should be in the same category.

The rest of this post is details provided as an example. It's how I personally would do it. But underlying it all is the basic principle described above, which to me is the important point.

I personally would license procreation and the requirements for obtaining a license would be as follows:

1. Annual income at least quadruple the poverty level.

2. Psychological exam to weed out gross abnormalities.

3. Background check by private detective to weed out criminality.

4. Successful completion of a parenthood training program.

5. Ten thousand dollars in cash.

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#19452 - 01/31/09 07:42 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Don't forget a minimum High School diploma or GED equivalent. Sticking with school (or at least going back to try) shows responsibility. Although my mom dropped out of HS, and later got her GED, I turned out decently.

You'd also have to stipulate that the 10K would be set aside in a trust fund to be used only for the kid, or something. Otherwise, they could save up the 10K and blow it on a plasma or a new car after they obtain their license.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#19453 - 01/31/09 07:49 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Zoid

I personally would license procreation and the requirements for obtaining a license would be as follows:

1. Annual income at least quadruple the poverty level.

2. Psychological exam to weed out gross abnormalities.

3. Background check by private detective to weed out criminality.

4. Successful completion of a parenthood training program.

5. Ten thousand dollars in cash.



Damn. I can afford several kids and I don't want them. Here's my "Get A Kid For Free Pass." Give it to someone who needs the aggravation.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#19454 - 01/31/09 10:49 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Don't forget a minimum High School diploma or GED equivalent. Sticking with school (or at least going back to try) shows responsibility. Although my mom dropped out of HS, and later got her GED, I turned out decently.


I thought about an education requirement and decided against it. Hell, if some dude with a third grade education can earn quadruple the poverty level income, he's probably as good a sperm donor as anyone else. What I'm aiming at is the intersection of capitalism and Darwinism. Success in capitalism is measured in dollars of income. Let the privilege to procreate be determined by the same measure: dollars of income.


 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

You'd also have to stipulate that the 10K would be set aside in a trust fund to be used only for the kid, or something. Otherwise, they could save up the 10K and blow it on a plasma or a new car after they obtain their license.


Actually I meant the ten thousand dollars to be the cost of the license. The cash is handed over to the government.

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#19455 - 01/31/09 12:33 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Ahhhh, I see where you're getting at. Me like
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#19456 - 01/31/09 01:07 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
update..octuplet mom:
from yahoo news

"From what I could tell back then, she was pretty happy with herself, saying she liked having kids and she wanted 12 kids in all," Garcia told the Long Beach Press-Telegram.

"She told me that all of her kids were through in vitro, and I said 'Gosh, how can you afford that and go to school at the same time?"' she added. "And she said it's because she got paid for it."


haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. thank you California!!!
7 weeks round the clock care, 47 doctors, and now 8 more mouths on the welfare teat for 18 years!

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#19457 - 01/31/09 02:45 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: daevid777]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
(I suspect you don't have any kids...

And... you shouldn't, especially in your current state.)

-Well there then, you are proving my point. You are bashing my ideas of deciding who should have children and at the same time doing it yourself. So is there, then, nothing wrong with it? Or are you exempt?



(This whole argument, I predict, is about to get really ugly, so I will choose self-control by not adding or trying to detract from it at this point.)

-If you are not adding or detracting from it, then what the hell do you call this post? If you wish to bite your tongue on a topic, the point is to NOT post on it.


(Some of you people are "out of your minds" kinda-nuts... if only your parents thought the same way...)

-Well I am glad you are an authority on deciding what qualifies as nuts or not. A number of your posts reek of christ-like-love all-shoe on the other foot bull shit, and it is repulsive.


Edited by blsk (01/31/09 02:47 PM)
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

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#19458 - 01/31/09 02:51 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: blsk]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Originally Posted By: blsk
-Well there then, you are proving my point. You are bashing my ideas of deciding who should have children and at the same time doing it yourself. So is there, then, nothing wrong with it? Or are you exempt?

He isn't deciding who should have children. He is only giving his opinion who is less capable or too stupid to have them...

 Originally Posted By: daevid
This whole argument, I predict, is about to get really ugly, so I will choose self-control by not adding or trying to detract from it at this point

hey... you are right, it is indeed getting ugly..


Edited by Dimitri (01/31/09 03:28 PM)
Edit Reason: Spell-check
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#19461 - 01/31/09 03:43 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Just using the quick-reply...

I'm a guy that can't be accused of being philanthropic and I do dislike kids. The younger they are, the more I dislike them. Welfare babies and one-day-to-be Einsteins alike. My sister got three of them, the oldest being 7 or so, and I didn't swap 5 sentences with any of them in all those seven years. I might start to converse with them when they finally developed a brain worthy having a conversation but until then I consider them parasites. But no matter how much I dislike kids and people popping them out like lottery balls, this all got nothing to do with that. What we are blaming is the system itself.

We are a life form and we reproduce. It is our ONLY purpose. And although kids will have the genes of their parents and are affected by nurture, not all that are born in welfare conditions will grow up as a welfare case. The same as not all being from middle or upper class turning out to be respectable or even productive. What the hell is a productive human anyways? Someone who fulfills his duty and support the machine until he is old and invaluable enough to be left to rot? Is the typical middle class drone the stereotype we look up to? Is he worth reproducing because he is financially able to do so? If societal class is a decisive factor and welfare shunned in reproduction, why would a mechanical and societal drone suddenly be worth it? Would we like to see more and more middlemen? I personally think we got enough middlemen already. We got so many middlemen with enough dollars and degrees that it fucking makes me want to cry. I say let the lower class breed like rabbits, let them suck all the cash out of society until the middlemen finally start to realize that they serve no other purpose as fuel for the machine. Maybe then they'll realize that society is nothing but a beehive where not too many are important. If you wanna solve the problem, kill the queen. Then destroy the hive.
All the rest is futile.

D.

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#19463 - 01/31/09 04:29 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
We are a life form and we reproduce. It is our ONLY purpose.


Finally, something we both agree on.

 Quote:
Maybe then they'll realize that society is nothing but a beehive where not too many are important. If you wanna solve the problem, kill the queen. Then destroy the hive.


And let society rebuild itself? I'm not sure what you mean, but something tells me it's an important lesson to learn. Perhaps rebuilding would only result in history repeating itself and then society will have to destroy the hive once more. Are you referring to a trend of declining/uprising societies? Or am I completely lost...
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#19466 - 01/31/09 05:12 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
And how exactly do you think this is going to be policed?

Make getting pregnant illegal, or make getting someone else pregnant illegal?

Come on, you are talking stupid pipe dreams.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#19471 - 01/31/09 06:40 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If all the idiots stop breeding, who the hell is supposed to wash my car and deliver my pizza in the future?

But in all seriousness, I like the cattle dumb. The dumber the better.

Stupidity is a resource. Let 'em breed.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#19472 - 01/31/09 06:42 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't do lessons.

Everything is cyclical Mike, it comes and goes but seldom is identical. Aspiring to create new societies is futile.
To quote a smarter man than me:

 Quote:
FOURTH PRINCIPLE.
A new kind of society cannot be designed on paper. That is, you cannot plan out a new form of society in advance, then set it up and expect it to function as it was designed to.


D.

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#19475 - 01/31/09 10:46 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
nice quote. I did a painting of him a few years ago and no one knew who it was. I shouldve sent it to you.

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#19477 - 01/31/09 10:59 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
My question is how far into the Manifesto did he have to read to find that quote?

But it is correct. The best laid plans of mice and men seldom work AS planned, or as translated into war college... "Battle plans change when the first bullet is fired."

The problem with Utopian ideals is that it they require minds capable of functioning within that utopian construct and, as we all have been tainted by the world in which we live, the prejudices of our own inner demons and those forced upon us through our necessary contact with others of our NON utopian world, we're pretty much incapable of thinking along strictly Utopian lines. We can postulate and speculate on who we're gonna regulate... but in the end, it's all conjecture. Utopias require a fresh start, not with just fresh ideas, but with a genuinely fresh palette from which to work. This is why so many "Utopian visions" begin after a cataclysmic destruction of the world as we know it. They're like the Phoenix rising from the ashes, perfected and begun anew.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#19481 - 02/01/09 01:49 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
And how exactly do you think this is going to be policed?

Make getting pregnant illegal, or make getting someone else pregnant illegal?

Come on, you are talking stupid pipe dreams.


Under our current "vote for me because you like my hair" political regime, you're right, measures that would be perceived as Draconian by some could never be enforced.

Meanwhile China did a good job of enforcing their one child per family rule.

I tend to be a Fascist at heart. My Fascism is capitalist. Capitalist Fascism would work nicely in a country like the USA where militarism is already big business and nationalism is already ingrained in the multitude.

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#19482 - 02/01/09 02:22 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
We are a life form and we reproduce. It is our ONLY purpose.


Reproduction is the purpose of life? I would say, instead, that life is the purpose of reproduction. Of course that begs the question of what the purpose of life is. As a Satanist I would insist that I and I alone will say what my life's purpose is, and this in fact is axiomatic. The purpose of a Satanist's life is whatever the Satanist says it is. But what of the sheep-human? This too is axiomatic. The purpose of a sheep-human's life is whatever society says it is. What, then, should society say about this?

Society's main project in first world countries is capitalism, and capitalism's main project is wealth-creation, so it would seem rational for society to say the purpose of a sheep-human's life is wealth-creation. Thus the purpose of reproduction, for the sheep-human, would likewise be wealth-creation. It would thus be rational for first world countries to make wealth-creation the measure by which permission to reproduce is either granted or withheld. If you make a certain minimum amount of money per year and can hand over enough money to pay for the license, you get to reproduce.

Will this work under our current high school prom queen popularity contest political regime? No. Sheep-humans will always be the majority and thus selection of our leaders by majority vote will mean our leaders are selected by the sheep, effectively precluding any government measures the sheep would consider Draconian.

Meanwhile, the tiger and the antelope apply pressure on each other with each passing generation along a vector of continuously increased running speed. Similar pressures were applied to humans back in our jungle days but no such pressures are applied today in modern society. Today if you have testicles or ovaries the odds are greatly in favor of you reproducing at least once in your lifetime. Natural selection has been eliminated from human propagation. This means there is no vector of continuous improvement over generations. Aimless, random genetic drift with no counter-force is the norm for humanity now.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo

If you wanna solve the problem, kill the queen. Then destroy the hive.
All the rest is futile.


I interpret the above as saying we must first replace our current political regime with something else before we can implement meaninful change. With that, I agree.

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#19484 - 02/01/09 04:01 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Of course the satanist defines his own purpose but one can wonder if there is a sheep-human who's societal function is predefined by the machine, then there aren't also sheep-satanist as predefined as the others? After all a sheep-human doesn't consider himself a sheep either, or realize it.

It isn't about capitalism any longer, it is purely about consumerism and the whole relativistic approach on things is only an effect of this. Retards are allowed to breed because retards consume. Genetic defects are allowed to breed and spread their genes because they consume. It doesn't matter if consumption is health care, food or fancy cars. People argue that it is costing society or the state a lot of money but society and the state have NO money. We pay all the bills.
We are the tiger and the antelope, the lower class and the middle class constantly apply pressure, it's Darwinian selection. Today you're the tiger, tomorrow you slack a bit, or got bad luck and you're the antelope. In nature you die, down here you swap classes.

D.

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#19485 - 02/01/09 04:03 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: Zoid
 Originally Posted By: ZephyrGirl
And how exactly do you think this is going to be policed?

Make getting pregnant illegal, or make getting someone else pregnant illegal?

Come on, you are talking stupid pipe dreams.


Under our current "vote for me because you like my hair" political regime, you're right, measures that would be perceived as Draconian by some could never be enforced.

Meanwhile China did a good job of enforcing their one child per family rule.

I tend to be a Fascist at heart. My Fascism is capitalist. Capitalist Fascism would work nicely in a country like the USA where militarism is already big business and nationalism is already ingrained in the multitude.


well, since this thread has nothing to do with the original topic anymore...

looks and personal appeal have nothing to do with politics since JFK. obama is in office because the masters put him there. watch his policies in the next 8 years, and you will see who he serves. bush was in office because they put him there too, despite what the vote was.

your next statements are as fanciful as can be.

militarism is anything but big business anymore. there is NO money in the military, there is no military industrial complex, there is no group of secret leaders dressed in war medals sitting around a big room deciding anything.
all corporations are hemorrhaging money today. there is banking, borrowing, and more borrowing. thats it. you want to see who is making decisions for you and me? then see who is loaning the united states money to continue.

and only in the heartland is there anything resembling nationalism today. and nothing in the heartland matters one lick.
the united states is firmly, passionately, and violently globalist.
wall street would sell your mother for a nickel if the rate was good, while the foreign owned federal reserve will print up more dollars to keep feeding the 30 million illegal immigrants. there is very little patriotism behind the slogans.

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#19486 - 02/01/09 04:11 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
Look. Folks. This whole thread has just become completely ridiculous. We can agree the system is flawed, no one likes dead weight on welfare, we are all feeling cheated, etc etc.

No one is going to topple any regimes here. If that were the goal, this would be a forum for Idealism, and not Satanism.

If you are a Satanist, you adapt, and survive, and prosper. Nothing more, nothing less.
Many are angry and bitter. Let’s put on our big boy pants (and girl pants) and deal with it.
There have been a few posts scattered that make sense. Idiots are good for the smarter people. Learn to capitalize on the fact that there will always be plenty of them.

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#19488 - 02/01/09 05:05 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Everyone here already flirts with fascism, so it is only to be expected some will French-kiss it. If you check the posts, not here but overall on the board, you'll notice that the lower-class is already viewed upon as der Untermensch. Not productive, not fit to breed. While in traditional German fascism race or preferences where the aspects to define expendability upon, we do use cash and productivity. Oh yes we use genes and mental health too but only in function of societal worth. After all, what is to be solved or suppressed can be integrated. And what we seem to agree on too is that we want the state to solve it.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (02/01/09 05:13 AM)

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#19489 - 02/01/09 05:35 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
yes fascism is acceptable, as long as we dont touch sacred cows and we refer to it as elitism, while patting ourselves on the back for being so rational and clever. interesting huh.
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#19491 - 02/01/09 06:43 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Quote:
nice quote. I did a painting of him a few years ago and no one knew who it was. I shouldve sent it to you.


He does make a lot of sense. I did read many manifestos in the day but most contain so much bullshit that you, halfway if you make it that far, start to cry. His is different and there is plenty that jives pretty well with Satanism.

His image isn't Zappa or Che-like but it has something making it pleasing. Maybe it is what is attached to it.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (02/01/09 06:44 AM)

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#19502 - 02/01/09 02:54 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
I never saw T.K. as a martyr. a hopeless idealist for sure, but it wasn't a cause he wanted to sacrifice for, it was just that he knew he had to do something.
i don't agree with his message in whole, because i enjoy technology too much. but his methods were absolutely fitting for what he sought to achieve, and i certainly do admire his spirit.

he is most certainly in an entirely different category than other terrorists. I would say he's almost a villain.

incidentally, he also probably wouldnt have supported welfare breeding and anchor babies.

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#19504 - 02/01/09 03:23 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
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stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I don't agree with everything but I see a difference in joy in technology and dependency upon it. Sure the computer is a nice thing but would I die without? It's one of those questions that keeps me wondering. Our rationale tells us; sure we can do without, no sweat, but our rationale is seldom put to the test, so are we fooling ourselves or not?

I don't even see him as a hopeless idealist. It's a guy that saw something he didn't like and did something against it. If he'd published his manifesto on the Internet, he'd be one of the thousands floating around in the great virtual garbage can. By using terror as an advertiser, he sure got attention.

I agree he wasn't too fond about welfare and neither am I, but welfare isn't caused by those on welfare as much as by what provides welfare.

D.

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#19507 - 02/01/09 04:17 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Sure the computer is a nice thing but would I die without? It's one of those questions that keeps me wondering. Our rationale tells us; sure we can do without, no sweat, but our rationale is seldom put to the test, so are we fooling ourselves or not?


I could see people who are so used to having the constant stimulation of computers, tv, cell phones, etc, going nuts from being without. Oh sure, we're not going to literally die, but it would be like a junkie going cold-turkey--we'd be jonesing just to check our email, or see if we got any text messages, or look up "how to make quilts" on Google. Just once, real quick man...it'd only take a minute!

Once we got used to the understimulation, we'd probably function okay. All of those fond memories of IM-ing and Twittering and updating your Myspace profile would have faded....to be replaced with the anticipation of receiving a letter from a pen pal across your state, or going to a quilting bee, or some other event previously thought of as incomprehensibly dull.

Then, if one were to be thrust back into the technology where we left off, we'd have to learn to cope with it all over again.

Headaches and insomnia, anyone?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#19509 - 02/01/09 04:28 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Yeah the computer, if you aren't using it for work, is a luxury product. Luxury can be abandoned even when it causes some mental distress at times. But think of all the other things which keep you functioning. I am dependent upon the stupid alarm that wakes me up in the morning, my car for work, traffic control, navigation that brings me there, satellites up in the sky, watches, coffee machines, food chains, the list is endless and that is only what I need to go to work. We are a nation so infused to technology, we'd crumble if it would fall apart for a couple of weeks.

When you think about that, waking up when you wake up, go out and butcher a chicken, grab some vegs and water almost sounds charming. I'm not a primitivo but you could wonder for a second how luxurious all our luxury really is.

D.

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#19513 - 02/01/09 04:56 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Well, let's keep that sort of stuff for a weekend getaway retreat sort of thing...

I like my flat screens, pc's, cell phones and SUV
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#19522 - 02/02/09 02:36 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
I could see people who are so used to having the constant stimulation of computers, tv, cell phones, etc, going nuts from being without. Oh sure, we're not going to literally die, but it would be like a junkie going cold-turkey--we'd be jonesing just to check our email, or see if we got any text messages, or look up "how to make quilts" on Google. Just once, real quick man...it'd only take a minute!

To push it a little further; modern economy uses computers and cell phones etc constantly. I can easily imagine a company literally die when all of their "gadgets" are offline for a week or 2.

One should indeed live like the amish people to see how depended he was on his daily routine.
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#19526 - 02/02/09 07:42 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
No one is going to topple any regimes here. If that were the goal, this would be a forum for Idealism, and not Satanism.


The above and its implication - that "Satanic idealism" is an oxymoron - hit me like a two-by-four upside the head, Bacchae. At first I strongly resisted it. But after some long hours of reflection, I have come to see the contradiction in terms that "Satanic idealism" must always be. This, for me, is a revelation, and I thank you for it, Bacchae.

As a result, unwanted baggage has dropped out of my thinking. Fascism is born of idealism and thus has been jettisoned. Eugenics is born of idealism and thus has been jettisoned.

Realist, skeptic, pragmatist, cynic - these a Satanist can be. A beast in the jungle can be these things as well. That should have been a clue for me. I regret that it wasn't. But I will waste no time on self-recrimination. I smell something good to eat.

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#19529 - 02/02/09 10:06 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

There is a movie, Idiocracy, I see that becoming reality if we don't stem the mass reproduction of all the stupid people.


I had an incident where this thought really made sense to me and I'm still working it out. I was dealing with clients the other night (3), all of the same stock, who were compulsively lying to me in order to get free service. Everything about these people were what most of us here would probably place perfectly into the stereotype of "idiots who breed" (one was pregnant). The lying was of a level I have rarely encountered. What also really hit me was their physical appearance. Other than an utter lack of any sort of hygiene, their actual physical features seemed "not right", lazy eyes (2), malformed teeth, disproportioned facial features (BTW, don‘t want to offend, keep this in context). I thought for a moment someone was setting me up. (If they told me the truth about their financial constraints by the way, I would have gotten them as much help as I could. Stupid fuckers.)
Anyway, if breeding of "lower intelligent" humans continues to rise, what does this say about natural selection for fuck's sake? Because some have absolutely no control over their base impulses, and this means they will breed with whomever, whenever they want, it follows that the population will reflect this. Could it also follow that more elite humans, who are more selective, may never catch up? This sounds real bad to me. Please show me the error of my thinking here.


Edited by The AntiChris (02/02/09 10:23 AM)
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#19530 - 02/02/09 10:30 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: The AntiChris]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Quote:
This sounds real bad to me. Please show me the error of my thinking here.

Right here so.. -->

 Quote:
Anyway, if breeding of "lower intelligent" humans continues to rise, what does this say about natural selection for fuck's sake?

No one "breeds lower intelligent people". Stupidity is achieved by environmental surroundings. A little child and even older ones are still influenced by their surroundings. Modern society seems to give little gifts to people when they are stupid.
Asocial persons here in Belgium (whom most of the time aren't very bright-lighted) have financial help "from the government" when they are in trouble. They tend to have lower taxation, certain things are given at very reduced pricings (when you can't pay for a normal housing, an institute here provides you shelter untill you have no debts and/or have enough money to buy/rent your own with your savings). On the other hand, when you try to achieve something on intellectual level you always will have problems doing so.
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#19531 - 02/02/09 10:50 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
No one who is breeding amongst themselves thinks they are "lower intelligent people", but they are. My point was that in this particular case it appeared as if a long line of interbreeding of certain characteristic was mostly responsible for both their physical and mental attributes. Of course there is no way of me proving this, however this was my initial reaction and it was frightening. Irresponsible breeding amongst kennel clubs leads to many health and behavior problems. Of course humans aren't all dogs but it's difficult to be politically correct 100% of the time and not make this analogy.
_________________________
Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

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#19541 - 02/02/09 01:08 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: The AntiChris]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Natural selection doesn't care about smart or even physical deformities. If people start to develop a third leg and it gives them an advantage at survival, no matter how ridiculous they'd look, they'd start outbreeding the rest and become the common thing. Now, in nature you wouldn't encounter the diversity one encounters in the human species for the simple reason that there are no protection mechanisms like we artificially created.
If retardation would be purely genetic and inheritable, one can assume they'd not survive too long and due to that, not continue their genes. One saying 'oh shit a tiger, let's run' does have a bit of an edge compared to one saying 'kitty kitty, nice kitty'.
But it's all circumstantial in nature. Retard could prosper because they at the same time would have an immunity towards something that kills the breed of smart ones. Still, you'll not encounter a family of retarded antelopes in nature or a family of crippled tigers. That is only possible in a human environment. So yes, we still have natural selection but due to the fact that we overrule certain things, it doesn't feel that way.

D.

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#19549 - 02/02/09 03:20 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Diavolo]
The AntiChris Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 60
Loc: Pennsylvania
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Natural selection doesn't care about smart or even physical deformities.


 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Retard could prosper because they at the same time would have an immunity towards something that kills the breed of smart ones.


Yes, this is the shit that keeps me up at night. Then it seems we're back to the point that society seems to encourage whether willfully or not their continued survival. They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated. Would be any government's dream come true. Right out of your favorite Orwellian style dreamscape.
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Awake, arise, or be for ever fall'n.

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#19565 - 02/02/09 09:53 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Bonez666W Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Texas, United States
To reply to you're post...... I guess id have to say that maybe its not neccessarly the people who are idiots but rather the area they live in you may or may not agree with this but ive learned if you hang with people long enough you act like them.

The only way to keep our children or anyones children and to get a more intelligent generation is to take care of our generation get rid of the idiots personally from what ive seen thats the problem.

Now as for what we will do with them, well that hasnt been totally figured out yet idk we could try stop making them fucking superstars and making them scum like they are, all the crackheads and drug dealers and bums who refuse to work which is why there bums that should not be acceptable and its a shame that it is.

But as a conclusion to this reply id say we dont HAVE to make that choice if we took some kind of action to fix it I mean look at it this way, you have kids they are fans to some popular singer or movie star or w/e they wanna be just like them this movie star or singer w/e starts doing drugs and showing a horrible example, we need to not only keep kids away from those people but find a way to make them dissapear from the TV or radio or w/e there on that makes them so popular.

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#19575 - 02/03/09 05:25 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: The AntiChris]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: The AntiChris
Yes, this is the shit that keeps me up at night. Then it seems we're back to the point that society seems to encourage whether willfully or not their continued survival. They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated. Would be any government's dream come true. Right out of your favorite Orwellian style dreamscape.


Perhaps any Satanist's dream come true?

This wasn't my perspective three days ago but it is now.

"They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated."

What's not to love?

If the masses are on a downward generational spiral into the depths of idiocy, then the Satanist, being a realist and a pragmatist rather than an idealist, will practice that oldest of alchemies: turning idiocy into gold.

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#19636 - 02/04/09 12:44 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bonez666W]
Sordid Archetype Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
 Originally Posted By: Bonez666W
Now as for what we will do with them, well that hasnt been totally figured out yet ...

But as a conclusion to this reply id say we dont HAVE to make that choice if we took some kind of action to fix it


Technically speaking, taking action IS making a choice.


 Originally Posted By: Bonez666W
we need to not only keep kids away from those people but find a way to make them dissapear from the TV or radio or w/e there on that makes them so popular.


How do you figure? And at that point, how would you propose doing so?

The way I understand it, you would rather have an authoritarian force dictating the positions and limitations of the populace - in a way submitting to the idea of "people are just stupid and can never learn on their own", instead of an alternative (i.e. having parents be responsible and doing their jobs as parents to guide their children into being "well-rounded individuals" and such).

Alright, nothing is text-book, and I'll admit that real life won't fit perfectly into my little tirade there, but the reality remains: why should an individual (celebrity or otherwise) be forced to give up his own rights and true will because of the stupidity and ineptitude of others? You claim "this movie star or singer w/e starts doing drugs and showing a horrible example", but that's an entirely subjective point. What's to stop someone from claiming then that other actions (i.e. religious practices, political views, etc...) do not set a wretched example as well?
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#19648 - 02/04/09 04:55 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Sordid Archetype]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
Suggested Reading: Understanding Stupidity by James F. Welles, Ph. D.

See: Defining Stupidity

Re: AntiChris' statement, "They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated." - I'm still busy working on a solid exploit for this one. All I know is that when I figure it out I'll be too busy picking out curtains for my new tax sheltered home in Monaco to worry about it.
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"Eleven. Exactly. One louder."

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#19651 - 02/04/09 06:39 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: candyjesus

Re: AntiChris' statement, "They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated." - I'm still busy working on a solid exploit for this one. All I know is that when I figure it out I'll be too busy picking out curtains for my new tax sheltered home in Monaco to worry about it.


Attributed to H. L. Mencken: "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people."

The carny mentality, formative for LaVey, is precisely what I have come to view as the Satanist attitude. It wasn't P. T. Barnum who said, "There's a sucker born every minute," but his competition, David Hannum, yet the reference was to the multitude flocking to see a sideshow hoax, and thus the carny mentality was given its own immortal slogan.

Yet the supreme practitioner of all this is the TV evangelist, who sells nothing, absolutely nothing, for millions of dollars! And this is why I consider the TV evangelist to be a closet Satanist.

And then there's the tarot reader with big statues of Jesus and Mary at her left and right: "You have a curse on you, but you're in luck! For the small fee of two hundred dollars, I can remove it!"

Selling nothing. This is the highest attainment, the master stroke, the swish from half court - nothing but net.

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#19653 - 02/04/09 06:47 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yep. And once you can fake sincerity, the rest is easy.

People are the same now as they have ever been, and they're all just looking for the bargain, even at twice the price. Doesn't really matter much what you have to sell... nothing is as good as something... as long as you can make people think that it's something they can't live without, or is somehow taboo to have or see. Laws or acquisition fit well with the Law of the Forbidden, and you're right. The televangelists have become almost satanic in their zeal to serve two masters.
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#19656 - 02/04/09 07:32 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Jake999]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
In that case, forget the evangelists. Billy Mays has the market.
Orange Glo, Oxy Clean, SHAMWOW...
He's a force to be reckoned with.

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#19665 - 02/04/09 10:26 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Like you Zoid, I have had my perspective on this topic completely turned around.

Only 3 days ago, I was scorning the "idiot element" of our society, wishing that there was some way it could all be contained to the extent that the chronic ineptitude/resource draining behaviour displayed by this facet of society didn't get a chance to affect the "elite element".

Now I realise that the "idiot element" is very necessary- stepping stones and ladder rungs for the discerning thinker-doer's attainment of whatever they desire.

Idiocy can be manipulated and exploited a lot easier than shrewd intelligence, so looking at it in that light, more idiots out there can only mean more opportunities, and chances for personal gain than ever before!

So to all the buck-toothed, lazy-eyed dopey sods replicating themselves out there, keep going....

The scope for personal gain is ever expanding, stepping stones and ladder rungs are always needed for one's journey to the top.

I scorn the idiot no longer.... I can smell something good to eat too.
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#19669 - 02/04/09 11:25 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: spiderbreeder]
Paul Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Debyshire, England
Re: Natural Selection

"Survival of the fittest" Is the result not the process. That's the whole problem. Evolution ceased to operate on the Human population about 100 years ago, with the advent of modern medicine.

"Elimination of the least fit!" That's the process. "Premature Death! (before reaching breeding age)" That's how the species moves forward and it isn't happening. That's why all the "Pond Life" is taking over. It just comes down to simple population numbers and if they breed they will dominate numerically but not in reality.

No farmer got worried because he bred more sheep. He just sent them all off to market as usual and banked the rewards.


Edited by Paul (02/04/09 11:51 PM)
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#19680 - 02/05/09 04:23 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Originally Posted By: candyjesus
Suggested Reading: Understanding Stupidity by James F. Welles, Ph. D.

See: Defining Stupidity

Re: AntiChris' statement, "They produce and consume and can be easily manipulated." - I'm still busy working on a solid exploit for this one. All I know is that when I figure it out I'll be too busy picking out curtains for my new tax sheltered home in Monaco to worry about it.

You know what real stupidity is?
Putting his whole book online for everyone to read instead of putting it on sale for his own profit....
And if he did so, well bad job by putting it online then, the salesnumbers will decrease...

You know, you could actually try to read a book about human behaviour... if you are smart enough answers to exploit others can be drawn from it. That instead of saying you are going to...
No one ever managed to build a brick house without the proper tools..


Edited by Dimitri (02/05/09 04:29 AM)
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#19683 - 02/05/09 05:06 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Paul]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Paul
No farmer got worried because he bred more sheep. He just sent them all off to market as usual and banked the rewards.


Yes. And there is one farmer and many sheep. This is the proper ratio.

Sheep produce wool so they needn't even be slaughtered and butchered. They can live happily to a ripe old age, eating grass in the warm sunshine, losing nothing but that which they are happy to periodically surrender.

The townspeople went excitedly to the carnival and left it satisfied, eagerly looking forward to their next fleecing.

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#20083 - 02/10/09 04:56 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
At first I was amused that his book was online too- I came across it one night while working on a paper about Cannibalism and the Greenhouse Effect. Thanks for the relevant content Google!

 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
You know, you could actually try to read a book about human behaviour... if you are smart enough answers to exploit others can be drawn from it. That instead of saying you are going to... No one ever managed to build a brick house without the proper tools..

I suggested the book because there have been a lot of responses here about generalized stupidity. Human behavior books are mildly addicting but generally a letdown. There are so many variables but in the end we're always so simple.

The Discovery Channel had a documentary on the science of sex appeal the other night... it was basically about how people instinctively choose mates based on physical attributes (Duh.) But apparently it's all linked into subconsciously determining their reproduction capabilities.

They went into the whole golden ratio spiel- defining beauty mathematically via facial features. Nothing new there- But I did find it interesting that women are determined to be their prettiest at the most fertile stage of ovulation. Scientists photographed women over the course of 1 month, and sho'nuff on the most fertile day of their cycle their faces were consistently determined to be the most healthy looking and attractive.
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#20084 - 02/10/09 05:35 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: candyjesus
But I did find it interesting that women are determined to be their prettiest at the most fertile stage of ovulation. Scientists photographed women over the course of 1 month, and sho'nuff on the most fertile day of their cycle their faces were consistently determined to be the most healthy looking and attractive.


Determined by male scientists, I wonder? It would be an interesting twist if the real discovery here is that males find women most attractive when women are ovulating. \:\)

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#20087 - 02/10/09 07:18 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Zoid
Determined by male scientists, I wonder? It would be an interesting twist if the real discovery here is that males find women most attractive when women are ovulating. \:\)

You hit the nail on the head- that's the exact outcome of their experiments.

They also proved that women show significantly more skin and shake their hips more during that time as well. Don't say you weren't warned =P
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#20270 - 02/12/09 02:47 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
 Originally Posted By: candyjesus
 Originally Posted By: Zoid
Determined by male scientists, I wonder? It would be an interesting twist if the real discovery here is that males find women most attractive when women are ovulating. \:\)

You hit the nail on the head- that's the exact outcome of their experiments.

They also proved that women show significantly more skin and shake their hips more during that time as well. Don't say you weren't warned =P

Should also add: when women are ovulating their "odeur" contains more hormones which attract the men more easily.
It also helps to attract men but on a subconscieus level by smell.
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#21259 - 02/28/09 09:30 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
I will be the first to admit I have not read this book, nor the whole thread here... But in my day to day job I observe human stupidity at it's height. This not only comes from social conditioning but also the governments complicity. We as a species with a few exceptions are being dumbed down and brainwashed at least. Once again, JMHO.


Roger.
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#21339 - 03/01/09 06:41 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
LordOf_illusions Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 31
Loc: Kansas
I've noticed a big trend in women not ever wanting children.

Not sure if it pertains to this topic.

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#21356 - 03/01/09 07:00 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: LordOf_illusions]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
On the other hand you have people like Sulliman who breeds them like a litter of puppies with no means or hope of being able to feed and support them. As it stands now the kids are destined for a life of dependency upon welfare and poverty. It's one thing to help someone who is deserving, it's a whole other thing to reward stupidity, especially when everyone else will be the ones footing the bill! If you can't feed them, don't breed them.


Roger.
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#21392 - 03/02/09 11:38 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Grandpabeast]
LordOf_illusions Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 31
Loc: Kansas
Idiots who breed? Think of it as cattle breeding new generations of even more cattle.

(Food and fodder for the gods.)

Where would the world be without idiots and mindless drones?

Where would a new supply of slaves,pawns,tools, and political scapegoats come from if it didn't come from idiots?

This is why idiots are encouraged to breed.

This is where the term useful idiots come from.


Edited by LordOf_illusions (03/02/09 11:41 AM)

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#23542 - 04/20/09 12:37 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
FlowerPower81 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/22/08
Posts: 17
Loc: VA

There should be a law everywhere for new parents to be tested. If they fail and want the child they should be taught how to raise a child. They should be given the idiots guide but as a monthly lesson and test should be done month by month for newborns and how to cope for parents.

I am a breeder, not by choice, BC didn't work, neither did a condom. I have six children, three of which were not intended. Mind you the second pregnancy was with twins! I never had plans on having children. But always kind of new I was bound for it!

I can afford to raise them. I am educated and still learning with them as well. I do not ask for help from the state and when the income tax returns comes every year the children get spoiled with the things they wanted all year. As do we adults of course.


Don't get me wrong that extra money at the first of the year is great but It shouldn't be as it is. I don't like the idea of the hand out. Or the way it all works. Just the way they set it up is retarded and so is the population.


I take pride in raising my children the way I have with the help of stern hand from my mother and their ever giving father, who works 50 to 60 hours weekly. He gets up in the morning to get them ready for school and still comes home late at night and helps me do what all needs to be done. Helps when he is home to raise his children!

It pisses me off to see some stupid Parent chasing after or yelling at her undisciplined child because they were not taught first. As we have babies having babies. We, the human population, grow retarded as a whole.

It should be a law for those who are about to have a child to be tested and licenced . . . all across the world!


But its just an idea!
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#23551 - 04/20/09 01:45 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: FlowerPower81]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
The unfortunate truth is that if Hitler couldn't successfully regulate the masses, I fear that no one could.

I must admit, I'm surprised to hear in this day that anyone with six kids has only one sperm-contributor (or am I inferring in error?). Kudos for that, though I wonder how one could have such a problem with birth control and ONLY have six kids...surely you guys screw more often than that!

We've sort of had this debate hundreds of times already, though. Who gets to draw the line? Who gets to set the standard? And who's going to pay for all those test-administers and all those tutors and inspections and whatnot?

I said it somewhere else already, but I'll say it again: I think the best course of action is to just allow them free access to abortions and whatever else will nip the next generation of ignorants in the bud. And to expand on that: lets go ahead and legalize all drugs while we're at it so that they can all OD and deal with each other instead of trying to steal the factory stereo from my '91 Dynasty (yes, it happened). That would have the equally satisfying side-effect of forcing drug dealers to get real jobs.

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#23552 - 04/20/09 02:02 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ceruleansteel]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
We raised our kids to be the best they could. At least we thought. As young tykes, they were perfect angels. Everyone loved them. Once they got some hair on their balls, they lost their minds. We've had the police at my house more times than I can remember. Both of them are now over 18 and both are on probation, doing community service, not working, owe several $$$ in fines and fees, and are douche bags. I've said it before, you can bust your ass raising them right, but once they hit puberty, they go stupid. I'm so pissed at them now, I don't talk to them anymore. They come home, eat, fuck off, roll out. If there was a legal loop hole that allowed parents to erase their "mistakes", mine would be erased. I'll leave it at that.
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#23559 - 04/20/09 04:50 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
I don't give a damn about mankind. They can breed, they can murder each other, I don't give a shit. All I care about is the pursuit of my own personal pleasure. The earth was made to be raped. Let's get it over with, then find some other party.
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#23561 - 04/20/09 05:12 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Satansfarm]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
rape the world and the party ends. come on, you live in the hippie capitol of the world, you know this.

and if man is a microcosm of the universe, you rape yourself, ie destroy, pollute, fuck up, etc, then you trade in the hats and horns for diapers and an IV drip. no thanks!

I prefer self control, awareness, and a pinch of discipline.

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#23562 - 04/20/09 06:59 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae

I prefer self control, awareness, and a pinch of discipline.


Sanity... a good sign in a Satanist. I long for a world where people actually realize that this clown act of "big bad me" finally gives way to the rationality of realizing that Satanism isn't external, but internal. It's not about others seeing you as "BIG BAD ME," but about knowing that you are, and being man (or woman) enough not to have to resort to all of the posturing and role playing that people take for "being satanic."

A Satanist without "self control, awareness and a pinch of discipline" is a caricature.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#23587 - 04/20/09 07:51 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Satansfarm]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
Bullshit.

If it happened, you'd have to watch your own videos all the time.

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#30093 - 09/27/09 04:45 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Maxim D Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Portland, Oregon, United State...
I'm quite disappointed to see no reference to breeding strategies in here. Example: Many insect species have several hundred young, and leave them alone at birth, whereas say, the cougar typically has one young at a time, which the mother will then raise to independence.

Another example: Sea turtles lay around 600 eggs, of which most do not survive to adulthood. This does two things: Ensures that the young who are most fit to survive in fact do so, as well as feeds flocks upon flocks of seabirds and other predators. In that sense, the turtle has a pretty good strategy for it's overall continued survival.

The mother cougar, on the other hand, does the best she can to give her child a fighting chance at life. The father is not present and seeks other mates.
--Like my mother and father.

Now to tie this into human nature- my mother and father were more like the cougars than the turtles or the insects. (Yes, waaaah daddy wasn't there, whatever, but my mother did the best she could....)

"Stupids" have more children because like the turtle, it is their instinct and their strategy for continued survival of their bloodline. of the children they do have, hopefully at least ONE won't end up shot down in a gang fight, overdosing on dope, or in prison by the time they choose to give their (probably socioeconomically handicapped) parents that grandbaby they always wanted..

In third world countries, women have more children as I'm sure all of you know.. the educated having less and all that. The page on the link below illustrates this:

How does education affect fertility rate?

The dumbing down is all around us, for example when doing my own google search for this, after typing in the word 'average' (as in 'average' number of children born to each women based on eduction level), the number one suggestion in my search bar was 'average penis size'

...perhaps besides the point, but that's what many mindless drones obviously worry about, I don't know how many searched for 'average vagina depth,' but I digress..

I was glad to see some talk about raising children. As mammals, it is quite important to raise children to be productive members of society, whatever... For example, my daddy wasn't there (waaah again) to teach me how to fix cars, fix stuff around the house, and all these things dads usually do in this society. I either had to figure it out myself or I learned it from my mother and my stepmother. Both are or were at some point struggling single mothers, who instinctually did the best they could.

Of course, when I have children it will be with a female who is highly attractive (I wouldn't fuck a pig-face) but also who has her head screwed on right. Also, I will do all those things that daddy never did for me and raise them the best I can to independence, like the proud cougar. I"m sure that many intellectually well-off people would, will and have done the same.

That's my strategy.
_________________________
The leaders of institutionalized religion should be institutionalized....

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#31073 - 11/01/09 12:24 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Maxim D]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
This is a Copy+Paste of a reply I posted on another forum recently on the topic of single parents being expected to work and how, "single parent" is often conflated with "single mother".

Let's remember, not all single parents are female - some men are widowed or have been left alone with their children.
Now on the subject of men, where are the fathers in the above scenario? Why are so many women left literally holding the baby and the State paying for their fathers to live as single men?
If a marriage or relationship breaks down the children don't just disappear. If a man wants children he should be prepared to support them. I know it's virtually impossible to pay rent on two households after a separation but that doesn't excuse fathers from their financial obligations. Now we are in a recession it's going to be difficult to find work but many people just can't be bothered and we are producing generations of people who believe they should be looked after by some bottomless pit of money that the government will provide. I'm afraid many women are complicit in this situation, too; they are not innocent victims. Look at the Jeremy Kyle show - women having unprotected sex with men they've "been in a relationship" with for a week, "falling" pregnant and then whining that they're forced to live on benefits because the wastrel of a father has walked. These are the sort of single parents who really get on my nerves, especially when they express surprise that they are expected to work for a living!
Shoot me down in flames if you will but my motto remains - if you can't feed them, don't breed them.

"Self control, awareness and a pinch of discipline". I think I want Bacchae's babies. ;\)
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"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#31086 - 11/01/09 01:10 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Born Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Ontario, Canada
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6

There is a movie, Idiocracy, I see that becoming reality if we don't stem the mass reproduction of all the stupid people.


I completely agree! I remember that movie well...

Q: "If you have one bucket with two gallons, and another bucket with five gallons, how many buckets are there?"
A: **facial expression as to say 'are you serious?'** "Ummm, two?"
*later* "Your test results are the highest in history".

In the majority of 'Democratic' nations there has been a trend in commercialism becoming a bit of a gospel of ill truths. In conjunction with this, programs such as 'no child left behind'... In a sense it pushes graduation whether the individual is equipped to utilize critical thinking and life skills or not. Creating a wave of lower skill set as the norm. How do so many graduate High School and remain illiterate? I won't even begin to get into the popularity of 'txt' lingo being submitted as literary work by some students...And some teachers now accepting it.

With the ever growing popularity of comedians such as 'Larry the Cable Guy' and instances of 'redneck pride', it's not hard to notice the numerous exclaims of 'Git 'r Done' echoing from the trailer parks in adoration and emulation. I would say that when the general populous begins breeding simply for the sake of doing so...(typically a result of accidental impregnation by lack of education in reducing pregnancy and health risks), or to obtain 'Government Benefits', the human race is in trouble. When the child is 'unwanted' or a product of 'poor choices', often very little focus will go into enriching them.

Most of us can already agree that many out there use television as a babysitter, educator and promoter of 'societal values'. In continuing this idea, the general population may as well submit a name change from Pepsi co. to 'Mother'...
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Without innate intelligence civilization would never have been created. When intelligence declines..

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#31392 - 11/07/09 04:49 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Born]
Maxim D Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/21/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Portland, Oregon, United State...
Idiocracy was a funny movie, where we even saw brand names incorporated into people's last names. The lawyer named 'Frito' and such.

Remember that memetic damage occurs on a large scale in the human specie, e.g. television, religion, stupidity in the general community, politics. Many potentially productive individuals end up wasted on the fringes of society because of the environment and the bad information that young often get from the media, and even more so from the ones around them. But then again, that comes from a herd mentality, which a select few are lucky enough to escape from. I hung out with the "bad kids" but saw that 30-year old hanging around the 15-year olds to buy booze a little bit too much.

Many get separated out according to their own intelligence and strength of will, some to the tweek-house, others to the university. Not surprisingly, life goes on.

Back to what I was getting at with memetic damage, I can say that the education system (in America) is so poor that I could've been playing in the dirt the whole time. What a nightmare. I went home and watched violent catroons, played GTA for hours, and still did fine- but that doesn't however speak for the majority of youth, who lack a lot of common sense. Stupidity is laudable in society, eg. Larry the cable guy, with many mistaking humor for real value, thereby justifying poor choices in life for the sake of a few laughs with people who are equally pathetic as them.

They fuck and fuck and drink and smoke and fuck, to make their dim existence more entertaining. Most don't know about condoms, or do but don't care, because the feeling is more important. Of course dumbfuck + dumbfuck usually = dumbfuck, but in some circumstances, a potentially valuable life is created, then taken out by the memetic damage being dealt them by their peers, the media, etc.. Don't forget that overexposure to television at a young age has been linked to AD/HD.

Perhaps given enough generations exposed to television at a young age, an "idiocracy-like" future may just indeed come as reality, what with mutations adapting the future generations to the television society. This could very well weaken the (majority of the) human specie- especially when machines replace fast food workers- then they're all pretty fucked.
_________________________
The leaders of institutionalized religion should be institutionalized....

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#31401 - 11/08/09 01:01 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Maxim D]
Nyte Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 380
Loc: Ohio
Ok, I was reminded of this thread when I read an article just yesterday about how 75% of the American youths (17 to 24) are unfit to join the military. They are either unable to pass the physical, the entry test or have dropped out of school. They must have a GED or diploma to sign up at all. This bothers me greatly, because when my oldest was having trouble in high school and the principal was going on and on about how 80-some percent graduated from "his" high school, I asked him how many actually dropped out prior to graduation. He nor anyone else on the staff could tell me. I found this rather alarming considering the fact that they had no idea how many teens actually made it from 9th to 12th grade and then through graduation (those glorious tests kept some or quite a few from graduating), yet he wanted to use his 80-some percent as some kind of justification for those that did actually graduate under "his guidance".

The largest part of the problem in our school system and why children are turning out literally dumb is not because they are born that way (although I have met a few), but the way they are being taught. Gobs (and I mean GOBS!!) of papers come home as homework daily, and the teachers are sitting around on their computers. Not all, but a lot. The kids spend 8 hours in school for literally 2 hours of instructions, left to do whatever, and then to try to complete all these homework assignments that night at home for a whole 10% or less of their grade. The sad part is, they're expected then to pass all of the tests which make up the other 90% or more of their grades, when the homework wasn't concentrated enough to teach them what they really needed to know for the tests. This seems to be the norm anymore. Hell, people don't even want sex ed taught in school anymore because they're afraid it might teach them how to use a flippin' condom correctly or tell the kids about relationships. Yet, they're complacent about "how" their children are really being taught.

I have found that many of the older teens have given up because they can't get the help they need. Not from their parents, nor from the school system. Sometimes the parents don't know how to help because the schooling itself has changed so much. You should see how they're teaching math now, completely backwards. They've turned to other avenues, and not for the better, to just get by. It's not an excuse but a reality. They don't have other means and thrive in those that at least give them some joy, hope, satisfaction, what have you. Do they need to multiply? No, but it's what they know even if it's not what's best for everyone, the child produced included. Sex is a primal urge, so even the stupid will indulge.

The "No child left behind" act has produced a hell of a lot of mess with the children that are in school and can't get help. They fail and still get passed because they can only flunk twice through out their school career. It also helps tie the parents' hands when they are trying to get their children help to just make it through school. Instead of getting tutoring, they get a class where a teacher/sub sits on their computer while the students have time to work on any class work they want and if they need help, they stand in line at the desk waiting for her/him to help them, after they're done on the computer. The "tutoring" allotted from N.C.L.B. is no longer one on one, or in small groups, focused on something like reading, and/or writing. And yes, I write this from experience. It was hell playing tutor while someone else got paid to do the job in the public school system. It seems to be a consistent theme in many jobs now a days though. Get paid while someone else does your job for you, that is.

And just to clear up a point, TV has been "linked" to many things, however, ADHD is not a primary result of too much boobtube. You'd be amazed at how many things cause ADHD. If you look it up, the medical research is incredible, but can't give a solid reason as to why people have it. Though many of the explanations make sense and not one includes TV. lol

In reference to the article, here's a link.
http://www.sphere.com/2009/11/03/70-percent-of-young-americans-are-unfit-for-military-duty/
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If only just for today.....

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#31423 - 11/08/09 06:18 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Paul]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
When I talk about morons, I am of course referring to the phenomenon that is the perpetually unemployed, chain smoking consistently drug addled baby machines that now fill our streets. People that in short give nothing back to the places/countries in which they reside.

As a Satanist I’m all for the pursuit of personal experience and pleasure, but I know that there must be a balance. I do as I please, but I also contribute to the world around me. I provide a skill, for which I am paid, and then the government takes a cut. Do I begrudge this fact, well yes, but I acknowledge the fact that it is the cost I must pay to live a life of relative hedonism.

Parasites that multiply and indulge their carnal needs at the expense of those that do contribute, affects a nation sociologically. People become disparaged with life and become apathetic in the work place.

I’m a firm believer in the fact that because natural section has no place in the modern western world, that we have a GENECTIC AND SOCIAL responsibility to restrain/control the breeding of those that are deemed “sub par/ABUSIVE OF THE SYSTEM”.

I’m well aware that I'm going to be pounded for this comment, but honestly ask yourself “what will become of a world where the intellectual do not reproduce because it isn’t the ‘right time’, and the stupid and lazy do so at will; happy and content to do so knowing that benefits will cover their deficit in employment?

I’m not talking mass sterilization, that’s just something the Nazi’s tried; and it all ended poorly for them. Realistically I propose that the government stop “incentivizing” the act of reproduction for those that cannot independently finance their own seed.

I mean come on, I don’t work long frigging hours in a thankless job, pay tax and put up with twats on the M8 just so that a little 15 year old can spit out another brainless turd, confident in her belief that no matter what she does in life, there will always be a mug like me to foot the bill.

I ask you, people of the world, is this what we work for? Sweat for? Spend time away from those we love for?

I’m all for those that need support. Christ, who knows when it could be you on the shitty end of the pike? We all need a little security. But when it comes to those that use their bastard inbred spawn as another benefit check, then I say “fuck that!”.

They are the reason that taxes rise, crime rates rise, insurance cost rise and illiteracy and the overall intelligence quota of a nation decreases.


Edited by Room 101 (11/08/09 06:20 PM)
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"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

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#31503 - 11/09/09 11:19 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Room 101]
Samuel Hain Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 62
Loc: arkansas
Whatever America may, or may not have been at one time, its economy now revolves around taking from the productive and giving to the parasitic. Did you see the long lines in Detroit recently for people in line to receive money for Uncle Sap (formerly known as Uncle Sam) No wonder so many people are fleeing to Costa Rica.
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#33537 - 01/04/10 01:35 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Room 101]
liebowitz Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/17/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Victorville, California, USA
Agreed, there are too many of the idiots breeding. There was a book written not long ago called freakonomics and some of the interesting points that I agree with, such as women should not have children till they are 30, and abortion is good for the economy and reduces crime.

After all if people were not having children that could not afford them there would not be a problem. That I also agree with you on.

We already have a society where the most well off have few to no children, while the ones who can't afford them have as many as they can. The reason this is allowed is the pope gets involved with such legislation before it can be for the benifit for us, and ruins it for everyone.

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