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#19370 - 01/30/09 02:11 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I think he would disown him, divorce his wife, and try, try again...

Or start drinking heavily...

He had the best of intentions, though, and he was a good guy, I just didn't understand the "culture"... my very own culture, behind such talk. So, in that light, I hope his son has a child, and "may their first one be a 'masculine' child". I don't think this sort of ideal is limited to those of Mexican, or Italian descent, though... or for that matter, any of my swarthy brethren.

Looking on the other side of my family tree, I see the same longing... the "traditional" name-giving for my Norse brethren... Erik-sen (son of Erik or Erick), Nielsen, Paulsen, Davidson, Olson... etc. Of course, this dies out immediatlely after the first generation, so... I don't know... the Danish government changed this a while back, insisting upon a standarized format for the last names, I don't know if this was good or bad.
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#19375 - 01/30/09 04:35 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: daevid777]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
the woman who just had 8 babies has 6 more at home. where she lives with her parents.

read the comments too.

link

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#19378 - 01/30/09 05:48 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Dimitri]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
If you knew just a little bit more about science you wouldn't have made this statement. Smart parents doesn't necessary breed intelligent children.


Probably because they were poor parents. Intelligence appears to be driven both by nature and nurture. But neither can be ignored.

If you go back to my original post you'll note I used the word "may" and the phrase "wherever that would be the case" as signals that I wasn't making a universal generalization about absolutely all scientists or absolutely all mathematicians. Nevertheless, good parenting of a young child includes the willingness to spend a lot of time focused on the young child and communicating directly and prolifically with that child to the exclusion of other interests. Filling the kid's ear with the local language is a major predictor of the kid's future success in academia. Presumably you've encountered scientists and/or mathematicians who are willing to do that sort of thing. I haven't. I suppose psychologists or anthropologists might view it as an experiment in their field and thus find it stimulating.

I would like to see a test where a collective of brilliant parents breed and their offspring are given the optimum nurturance with regard to developing intelligence. Given that conjunction of nature and nurture, I would predict a very high degree of success in producing brilliant kids.

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#19379 - 01/30/09 05:52 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Dude, spare me your loosy explanation.
You made a stupid statement and trying to talk your ass out isn't going to help.
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#19382 - 01/30/09 06:07 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Nemesis]
Zoid Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
While it would be wonderful to dump a load of sterilizers in the water supplies of ghettos and trailer parks, I think it would work against a country's best interest.


I agree that it would be wonderful and disagree with the latter portion of your comment. More below.

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

Take a look at Japan, where their birth rates have slowed to the point where there are now more elderly people than babies born to replace them. Companies like Canon have decided that twice a week, their employees will be sent home a few hours early, in order to reconnect with their families and hopefully produce some new babies.


This assumes a shrinking population is bad. I don't see the logic of that, especially in an over-crowded country like Japan.

The only reason we need more people is to buy more products in our consumer-driven society. I'd rather find a new kind of society that isn't consumer-driven. I want less people in general, far more smart people as a percentage of the total, far less stupid people as a percentage of the total, and fewer mediocre people, period, because I want less people. I live in New Jersey and the roads and stores are way too crowded for my taste. The roads in particular are dangerous and tedious because far too many cars are using them simultaneously.


 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

There are plenty of smart kids that are born to dumb-assed parents...


Depends on what you mean by "plenty" as I would expect the percentage to be well below one percent of the total. Also depends on what you mean by "dumb-assed" and what you mean by "smart"...

Taking the most extreme meanings for your words, the percentage of kids born to two drooling idiots who grow up to be scientists or mathematicians would surely be vanishingly small, perhaps zero, for reasons both of nature and nurture.

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#19394 - 01/30/09 09:39 AM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
I think anyone should be allowed to mate with whomever they choose. But with that said I think there should be a greater effort to educate people into what reproducing actually entitles to the whole of Humanity in the long run. "Having a baby" is an idea that has become romanticized in recent times.

I think what a lot of people (especially young girls who let whatever schmuck impregnate them) don't realize is that their bringing more than a little bundle of joy into the world, their creating an ENTIRELY NEW HUMAN BEING that they are partially responsible for instilling morals and values into. Their baby wont be a baby forever, so the question is what direction their child will move into when it reaches adulthood. What purpose would it serve to have another one of them running around in the world to begin with. Having another Human animal pop out of someone isn't any remarkable task in itself. Having that Human grow up into somebody worthwhile is what matters.
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#19402 - 01/30/09 12:43 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Zoid]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
My concern about a country or particular group of people replenishing itself has nothing to do with economics. It stems from the fact that when a civilization dies out, another comes along to take it's place. The aforementioned civilization might be lucky enough to have made it into the history books, otherwise all of their achievements would come to naught.

For example, if the birth rate of white people in the US doesn't stay at 2 or higher, we will be out-bred and overrun by Mexicans. Even if one didn't take into account the number of illegals coming across the border, are already well on their way to replacing us as the next majority. They are already the largest minority, out-pacing even blacks.

So yes, while would be most beneficial for our mental health and the state of our planet to have less people, take into account what that might mean in the long run.
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#19410 - 01/30/09 03:22 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Bacchae]
candyjesus Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 43
Loc: NY
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae
the woman who just had 8 babies has 6 more at home. where she lives with her parents. read the comments too. link

Great article Bacchae... I especially liked the comment "I can't believe she had these kids because her life was missing something. PAY ATTENTION TO THE SIX YOU HAVE!"

It also exposes another facet to this topic- is science interfering with what could be interpreted as the natural selection process? If a I try and try and try (woohoo!) and still can't have children, do I turn to fertility drugs and IVF to make it happen?

Tricky... because the social aspect of it says to me: Yeah, sure go for it. As long as the kid is healthy- if someone went though all of that trouble they must really, really want it. So (in theory) they're going to give this kid all of the attention and love it needs.

But on the flip side, I feel like there must be some reason the process was defunct in the first place.

I'll use myself as an example so as not to offend anyone. In theory I'm freaking awesome. Grade A Genetics: 10 fingers 10 toes, fairly normal organs, and more importantly, I have great hair. But oops, my ovaries are broken. So doc tells me I'll need to run all kinds of crazy interference if I ever want to reproduce. I like to tell myself that maybe the world just can't handle such supreme awesomeness... but maybe there's more to it. Maybe its because I can't keep a plant alive for over 48 hours. Or maybe it has something to do the fact that I come from a long (and almost completely extinct) line of daredevils and psychopaths. Maybe, just maybe, something is putting a stop to this bloodline of crazies. Or maybe it's just radiation from New Jersey.

Lots of maybes there.
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#19415 - 01/30/09 06:09 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Here in Australia, and now on this board, I hear so many people saying that everyone and their dog is just having kids to get the measly $6k from the government (as apposed to the 2.5k is was), but I personally don't see any evidence of this.

The government was trying to get people to have more kids, as like Japan, we are an aging population, we don't let in any illegals and if we don't want to have to let in alot more immigrants, then the government had to do something.

And $6k really doesn't go very far towards raising a child, so anyone who would have a child so they got $6k to spend on TV's are in for a rude awakening, when the cost of raising said child, runs into alot more than that in the first year alone.

I tend to think that the majority of people are not quite THIS stupid.

The thing is, as much as it might give some a good feeling to bitch about who should be allowed to have children and who shouldn't, utopia's with licenses and the like, what is any of it really acheiving? Sweet FA as far as I can see.

With all our scientific meddling into reproduction, it still stands that there are no where near as many children being born that are not wanted. For all the births that wouldn't have happened without IVF, are the many that didn't because of terminations and birth control methods.

Personally, it is my opinion that as long as a child is wanted, then it is warranted. It is a crap shoot as to sex, health and intelligence.

There is no one on this board that I would want to be making the decisions on who got to have kids and who didn't. It's subjective and will never be taken seriously.

Zeph
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#19419 - 01/30/09 06:50 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: candyjesus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Maybe its because I can't keep a plant alive for over 48 hours. Or maybe it has something to do the fact that I come from a long (and almost completely extinct) line of daredevils and psychopaths. Maybe, just maybe, something is putting a stop to this bloodline of crazies. Or maybe it's just radiation from New Jersey.

Lots of maybes there.


Yes, a lot of maybes, but don't feel so down about it. There's no special force that is going to prevent you from reproducing because your not "fit" to have an offspring, it's more than likely a genetic screw up that you had no control over (unless there was an accident involved). Whether or not you would make a fit parent is debatable. Most parents (or mine at least) pick up from what their parents did for them and learn over time how to be a responsible parent. I'm not saying you would be a good or bad parent, I'm just saying that the problems you may have with reproducing are most likely a mere work of nature. And even that doesn't mean there's no possibility of bearing offspring. With all of the advancements in science and new methods being observed as we speak, you may be able to reproduce without any problems at all. For example, scientists are always discovering new ways to get around medical problems. Just the other day I was reading an article on how people living in Europe in the 1600's that survived the black plague had the same mutated gene as those who are immune to HIV. Scientists are now trying to mimic this gene, called "delta 32", to come up with a cure for HIV that prevents it from ever entering your body. I may be sounding over optimistic here, but I'm sure in the near future people in your situation may have nothing to worry about. Just look at how far we've come.
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#19420 - 01/30/09 06:56 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Mike]
Sordid Archetype Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 28
Loc: Long Island, NY
Mike, I think you may have misunderstood what Candyjesus was getting at.

Just because we have the technology to overcome such a thing, does that me we should?

 Originally Posted By: Candyjesus
But on the flip side, I feel like there must be some reason the process was defunct in the first place.


The question becomes, how much is advancement and how much becomes degradation?
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#19426 - 01/30/09 08:39 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Sordid Archetype]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Just because we have the technology to overcome such a thing, does that me we should?


If that "thing" is having a child and the person "wants to" overcome not being able to, they yes, of course.

I understood what she was saying. Maybe you just misunderstood me.
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#19427 - 01/30/09 10:12 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: Mike]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Could we should we. Depends on your standpoint. Some feel it "wrong" to take someones free will. I do not. I find it incredibly appropriate to take ones free will if it is inconvenient for me to allow them to excersize it. Do people have a right to bear children? Yes, because they have the ability to do so. If you have the ability, you have the right. Do people have a right to bear children if it is going to have an undesired effect on the life of you, myself, and so on? Only if you let them. YOU("YOU" when capitalized referes to all who read this)have EVERY right to take the "free will" of another to preserve your own comfort or way of life. You are not indebted to them nor do you owe them the resposibility of footing a bill of ANY sort. Survival of the fittest. Give me a GOOD reason why irresposible people should be give the same rights as those who have shown the ability to hold their own.
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#19428 - 01/30/09 10:23 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: blsk]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
What qualifies a person as irresponsible?
What qualifies a person as infringing on your "comfort"?

Can you flesh this out a bit more? At exactly what point do you remove their "free will" and how does that solve anything if you have to allow them to procreate BEFORE you know if their offspring are going to "infringe on your comfort"?

What are you going to do with all these kids that made you uncomfortable in the first place?

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#19429 - 01/30/09 10:48 PM Re: Idiots who breed. [Re: ceruleansteel]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
What qualifies a person as irresponsible? Excellent question. It is a bit more complex, circumstancial if you will, than a black and white description of irresposible. Generations of couch-potatoes is one I will go with here for the sake of argument. It is irresponsible to have children raising them to "plug in" to the habbit of being a social parasite. People who have no forsight or grasp on the "big picture" of progress and developement simply give birth to bottomless stomaches. Yes there is a chance that just because the parents are worthless doesn't guarantee that the child will follow suit, just the same as a scientist or mathmatician will provide the next big physicist. However I, nor anyone else, is obligated to give them the benefit of the doubt, especially if they already have children who have proven family failure to be repetative.


What qualifies a person as infringing on your "comfort"? Easy, if I did not offer yet they take, THAT infringes on my comfort. Welfare is an example. I did not offer. Yes, in a way I condone it by paying taxes, but unfortunately we do not choose where that money goes. There are far more things I can think of to spend my money on than "them."


(What are you going to do with all these kids that made you uncomfortable in the first place?)

-Cut them off. Life is all about proving yourself. Prove yourself deserving of help and you will soon find you do not need it. To answer your question, I will do nothing with all the kids, nature will. It will starve them to death.



Edited by blsk (01/30/09 10:51 PM)
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