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#20308 - 02/13/09 07:30 AM Satanic Will & Satanic Heart
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
Much of our discussion on this forum is focused on qualities of mind, a great deal of it instructive, and I have enjoyed contributing to that, grounded in my formulation of The Eight Virtues of Satanic Mind: alertness, discrimination, prudence, cunning, realism, practicality, skepticism, and cynicism - truncated from the original nine when I realized I had confused mind with will in one instance. (Being a fan of spiders and octopi, I must say the number eight pleases me.)

Surely a counter-balance to all the mind-talk would be in order. Nietzsche's preference of Dionysus over Apollo may have been overstated but it held a kernel of truth nonetheless.

My intent for this thread is to provide a central place for us to post regarding will and heart. It is clear to me that many of us have delved deeply into both.

I doubt I need to offer much of a framework so I'll be brief and then wait for others to say what they will say, in the near future and over longer periods of time.

I distinguish between will and heart. These two formulations may help clarify the distinction.

The Eight Virtues of Satanic Will: ulterior motive, mimicry, self-programming, dominance, psychic shielding, psychic immunization, steel, and inscrutability.

The Thirteen Virtues of Satanic Heart: sensuality, fondness, justice, jealousy, largesse, terribleness, majesty, disdain, stalking cat intensity, laughter, hate, relentlessness, and rapacity.

Taking up the first of the two, I will note that will is a skill we master, an excellence we achieve via practice. Thus ulterior motive is the skill of holding two intentions at once, an immediate, obvious one and a deferred, hidden one; mimicry is the skill of temporarily stepping inside an organic framework of complex, alien intention; self-programming is the skill of permamently installing in one's mind or heart a new proposition or predilection that serves one's intent; dominance is the skill of holding the strings of other people's intent in one's hand like a puppeteer, without need of coercion or trickery but simply via facial expression, body language and voice pattern; psychic shielding is the skill of making oneself invulnerable to the dominance of others; psychic immunization is the skill of sending antibodies into the bloodstream of the psyche to protect oneself against any unwanted mental or emotional contagion; steel is the skill of barricading consciousness from counter-productive impulses, such as physical pain, or misguided fear, or the whimperings of Superego, or any twinges of empathy toward a target of wrath; and inscrutability is the skill of utterly disengaging one's facial expression, body language, and voice pattern from whatever is occurring inside the psyche.

I'll stop here and open the floor to any of us who has a word to offer on will or heart.

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#20318 - 02/13/09 12:49 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
Ringmaster Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
ulterior motive, mimicry, self-programming, dominance, psychic shielding, psychic immunization, steel, and inscrutability.


Aren't these things that should come naturally? Why should someone WILL themselves to think like a satanist? A satanist shouldn't have to force him/her self to think in such manner, if this be the case it seems like they are just trying to fit into a mold that isn't them. Like putting the square piece in the circle piece.

Your thoughts on "satanic heart" do interest me. Explain how you came up with them. I can see how with some of them. But to me they just seem to be character traits that come natural.

It seems to me that you have done nothing more then realize something that most have already realized then put it into a list with a bunch of deffinitions.

I do feel the need to ask you why you thought it prudent to provide definitions to half of your post.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20319 - 02/13/09 01:11 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Ringmaster]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
Why should someone WILL themselves to think like a satanist? A satanist shouldn't have to force him/her self to think in such manner, if this be the case it seems like they are just trying to fit into a mold that isn't them.

Easy: answer has been already given by what you call "these things that come natural" or to be more precise mimicry.
I know such people and it is something typical for a stage everyone has gone trough --> teenage-stage.
Young people are searching something to resemble with.
There are some who choose Satanism and force themselves to think that way. *
Thus there is a manner to force oneself to think in a certain way.

* With this part I must add that they aren't literally forcing themselves that way. They actually are copying other persons ideas they feel close resemblance with and stick to it. They have difficulties of making things out of their own, tough they may look smart and "wise", it's just a shell with a parrot inside.
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#20321 - 02/13/09 03:08 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Dimitri]
Ringmaster Offline
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Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
But let's argue semantics for a minute. Isn't that what most people are? I ask that because most things that people learn are from others.

The difference I think is if the person actually understands what it is he is regurgitating. I mean we are all passing off knowledge in some way or another. I think it is the true acceptance of such knowledge that makes the behavior natural or not.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20322 - 02/13/09 03:16 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Ringmaster]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster
I think it is the true acceptance of such knowledge that makes the behavior natural or not.



EXCELLENT point. Learning does not occur until there is acceptance. One must be prepared to accept what is offered before their minds can assimilate the facts and put them into their proper place in memory... even then, one can regurgitate the facts and have little understanding of them. It's learning for a goal's sake... college students become adept at this. They can sound like an encyclopedia... like they have the wisdom of the world, even though they have no practical experience. This is because they have trained their minds (if they are successful students) to become an information recovery system... like a computer or an old micro-fische machine,

TRUE learning brings about acceptance, adaptation, change and replication in those who are receptive of the knowledge that they receive, whether it is from the inspiration of a writer or a personal experience. There is a profound imprinting of the concept in their mind that goes far beyond memorization for the purpose of regurgitation on command. It becomes something by which other aspects of their lifes are colored.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20327 - 02/13/09 06:40 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Ringmaster]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster
 Quote:
ulterior motive, mimicry, self-programming, dominance, psychic shielding, psychic immunization, steel, and inscrutability.


Aren't these things that should come naturally?


"Practice makes perfect" would be my banal but accurate response. In case it isn't clear, I'm not merely talking about deciding to do these things. I'm talking about perfecting them.


 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster
Why should someone WILL themselves to think like a satanist?


The point here isn't thinking but doing, and doing well. The fulfillment of will is mastery.

Take the virtue of steel as an example. A young boy is afraid to speak in front of his class. He steels himself to do it, and gets through what he wants to say, but the spectacle of his nervousness is off-putting, with his fidgeting and stuttering. He has progressed but he still has far to go. Eventually, if he continues to practice the virtue of steel, he will be able to speak in front of his class with smooth grace. When he reaches that point, he may begin to experiment with the virtue of dominance, and try to take hold of the strings of his audience's intent.

 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster

A satanist shouldn't have to force him/her self to think in such manner, if this be the case it seems like they are just trying to fit into a mold that isn't them. Like putting the square piece in the circle piece.


Beyond the fact that doing, rather than thinking, is my focus, let me bring forward Nietzsche's principle of self-overcoming. Some things I may have always excelled at, for any number of reasons, while other things I may have always been poor at. Is that the end of the story? Not if I embrace the principle of self-overcoming.


 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster

Your thoughts on "satanic heart" do interest me. Explain how you came up with them. I can see how with some of them. But to me they just seem to be character traits that come natural.


Heart and will are different, of course. Your emphasis on what comes natural is very potent when directed at matters of the heart. Where the will is a blade to be hardened and sharpened, the heart is a river that will flow on its own in the most natural way imaginable, if only it doesn't rush headlong into a dam. Modern society teaches us to erect dams inside the psyche, blocking the flow of our heart's natural rivers of emotion.

Shall I express sensuality? No, says society, be prim. Shall I express fondness? No, be aloof, says society. Justice? No, do as Christ would do, be merciful. Jealousy? No, be easy-going. Largesse? No, be careful with your money, save for a rainy day. Terribleness? No, be nice. Majesty? No, be humble. Disdain? No, be accepting. Stalking cat intensity? No, lighten up. Laughter? No, be quiet. Hate? No, get therapy, hate is sick. Relentlessness? No, stop banging your head against the wall. Rapacity? No, be satisfied with a reasonable portion, a fair portion, the portion we assign you.

No no no no no no no.

Dams. Inside us, blocking the flow of the rivers of the heart. Certainly the flow of these rivers is the most natural thing in the world. But we have internalized unnatural blockages.

Satanism is the dynamite that blasts these dams open.

As for the virtues listed... they are the emotional catharses I have specifically sought to achieve in greater magic. Each has proven powerful as the engine of my magical practice. I simply recalled what I had done, and assigned names.


 Originally Posted By: Ringmaster

It seems to me that you have done nothing more then realize something that most have already realized then put it into a list with a bunch of definitions.


Only the will virtues are defined, because in my assessment the definitions weren't obvious, especially since I was using these terms to represent skills. Talking about ulterior motive, for example, as a skill, is unusual.

I didn't define the mind and heart virtues because in my assessment there wasn't any need to do so.

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#20443 - 02/15/09 09:07 AM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
Disdain - Hate - Question for Anyone: How much of your Satanic way of living is an expression or outgrowth of your disdain or hate for modern society as you encounter it?

I ask because it has occurred to me that I may have been seriously underestimating the importance of the above element as a motivator for many, especially myself. I hasten to add that I admire disdain and hate as splendid uprisings of the Satanic Heart.

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#20456 - 02/15/09 12:12 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Disdain - Hate - Question for Anyone: How much of your Satanic way of living is an expression or outgrowth of your disdain or hate for modern society as you encounter it?


Well, none. What do you even mean by 'Satanic way of living' anyway?

I do not have disdain for modern society, and my hate is far too valuable to disperse so glibly. Modern society serves me just fine.
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#20466 - 02/15/09 03:42 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Zoid
Disdain - Hate - Question for Anyone: How much of your Satanic way of living is an expression or outgrowth of your disdain or hate for modern society as you encounter it?


I used to have a genuine hate and disdain for modern society, especially directed at Christianity, but I eventually grew out of the angsty stage. Alot of things in this world still piss me off, and in a way they do still influence some of who I am, but I don't let it bother me as much as I used to.

I am reminded of a quote from one of my favorite movies, American History X: "Life is too short to walk around pissed off all the time."
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No gods. No masters.

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#20470 - 02/15/09 04:00 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
None.
I was a Satanist before I grew to learn that most of modern society is lost. I don't hate them, I just choose who I decide to socialize with.

I don't admire disdain or hate. I feel its useless, and a waste of time and energy.

If anything, allowing some outside "force" to affect you that much is a weakness.

Morgan
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#20476 - 02/15/09 04:59 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Hate and disdain for modern society? Not hardly.

That would assume an investment in the lives and society around me that I'm just not prepared to make... you have to care to hate. I personally find that the greater part of society isn't worth wasting my thoughts on. What's the opposite of love... hate? No. Indifference.

I've found that the "Satanist" who goes around with a hard on for the world is about as effective as a goody-two-shoes who's whole focus on life is to bring a smile to the rest of the world. Each is deluded into thinking way too much of themselves and their place in things. They assume that the world actually cares what they think and might consider their wishes and demands... almost as ridiculous as the mouse walking up the elephant's leg with rape on its mind.

There are people I hate, and there are things I hate, but I'm intelligent enough to know that my life isn't omnipresent in the affairs of the world... or even the guy next door. It's up to me to craft my world and existence to mitigate against the way "the world" intrudes upon my reality.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20488 - 02/15/09 06:13 PM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Zoid]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
My satanic way of living was established during the days that I had a much brighter look upon society so that did not have much effect upon it. In fact, not even Satanism had an effect on it during those days. But I admit that during the last years I grew a bigger and bigger disdain for society as is.

My disdain is not of such a magnitude it compromises my manner of living in society -I never felt a part of it to begin with- but whenever I have a chance to contribute to the problem, I do not pass upon it. It's not even the inhabitants I have the biggest problem with, it's more those societal debilitating tendencies that are so overrepresented today it almost makes me sick whenever I think about it. Luckily I do not think about them all the time, my real priority is myself and in my isolated sub-reality things look much brighter.

D.

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#20504 - 02/16/09 05:41 AM Re: Satanic Will & Satanic Heart [Re: Jake999]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Hate and disdain for modern society? Not hardly.

That would assume an investment in the lives and society around me that I'm just not prepared to make... you have to care to hate. I personally find that the greater part of society isn't worth wasting my thoughts on. What's the opposite of love... hate? No. Indifference.


The above isn't too far from what I meant by disdain, an emotion which, as I experience it, compels me to reject and then ignore.


 Originally Posted By: Jake999

I've found that the "Satanist" who goes around with a hard on for the world is about as effective as a goody-two-shoes who's whole focus on life is to bring a smile to the rest of the world.


The person with the hard on for the world (an interesting phraseology, as I would have interpreted it as being sexually aroused by the world, but I know you don't mean that) would be closer to what I meant by hate, although hating the whole world is extreme to the point of absurdity. However, hating parts of the world is manageable and could yield ambitions that elevate the fierceness of living.


 Originally Posted By: Jake999

Each is deluded into thinking way too much of themselves and their place in things. They assume that the world actually cares what they think and might consider their wishes and demands... almost as ridiculous as the mouse walking up the elephant's leg with rape on its mind.


The rapacious mouse has always amused me. \:\)

And in the case of hating the whole world, rather than merely parts of it, I agree delusions of grandeur would likely be part of the psychological dynamic. A man who hates the whole world will probably end up spending the remainder of his days in a straightjacket, drooling.

 Originally Posted By: Jake999

There are people I hate, and there are things I hate, but I'm intelligent enough to know that my life isn't omnipresent in the affairs of the world... or even the guy next door. It's up to me to craft my world and existence to mitigate against the way "the world" intrudes upon my reality.


I agree, only adding that I would include, in "mitigating against," the possibility, now and then, of turning my energies directly upon an irritant. Sometimes untouchability is satisfaction enough - and sometimes it isn't. Disdain and untouchability make a pleasant cocktail quite often. Yet now and then, a stiffer drink is called for.


Edited by Zoid (02/16/09 05:43 AM)
Edit Reason: Zoid needed to add a missing end quote.

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