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#39954 - 07/04/10 06:20 PM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Oh what a load of crap. That essay quite clearly places Satan in context of religious mythology. It speaks of satan taking on the animal characteristics of past gods, and names them for the clear purpose of psychodrama. Unless you think Anton believed all of the infernal names represented actual gods?

Cultural variations on the same Powers of Darkness principle identified in J/C idiom as "Satan", actually. Satan was understood to be the collective or master-principle, with various dćmons such as Asmodeus, Belial, Leviathan et al. focusing on more specialized and restrictive applications. And the Infernal Names were also pertinent to different historical times and cultures, so workings so-pertinent would address them, as of course in the Satanic Rituals.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Lies. You are here to push your religious agenda, and to air your 30 plus year old sour grapes. If this were not the case you wouldn't be harping on the exact same point/s (satanism=devil worship/read my ebook!) eternally. Some of us aren't so dull as you seem to think we are.

I don't recall accusing anyone here of being dull; but if I thought that of someone, I would just sail peacefully on by. And as mentioned above, I was specifically responding to "Faite's" original question here, not to you - though I suppose that when you have your head up your ass, four out of five of your senses aren't working.

Actually, over the last 41 years since I joined the Church of Satan, I have become more and more inclined to recommend people away from Satanism than towards it. Most are intellectually, ethically, and/or emotionally unprepared to handle it, and would just wind up doing damage to themselves or others accordingly. For such I much prefer that they think of Satan as a Devil to be feared and shunned, or as a mere symbol for decorative enjoyment.

 Originally Posted By: Captain Nemo
Think of it. On the surface there is hunger and fear. Men still exercise unjust laws. They fight, tear one another to pieces. A mere few feet beneath the waves their reign ceases, their evil drowns. Here on the ocean floor is the only independence. Here I am free! Imagine what would happen if they controlled machines such as this submarine boat. Far better that they think there's a monster and hunt me with harpoons.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#39956 - 07/04/10 06:44 PM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I was specifically responding to "Faite's" original question here, not to you - though I suppose that when you have your head up your ass, four out of five of your senses aren't working.

On the latter point I would not attempt to argue with experience, and the former..well..I don't care who you were talking to. It seems to me you will drone on about your e-book and what Satanism 'actually' is to anyone that will listen. You are like some sort of eddie munster lookin' grandpa Simpson. I for one am going to kick over your soap box once in a while.


 Quote:

Most are intellectually, ethically, and/or emotionally unprepared to handle it, and would just wind up doing damage to themselves or others accordingly.

Given the way that you define Satanism, I can't help but agree.

 Quote:

or as a mere symbol for decorative enjoyment.

That this is how you interpret what we are doing here just shows you probably never got it to begin with. It's no wonder you can't move past the devil worshipping caricature of Satanism you continually try to sell.
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#39982 - 07/05/10 02:35 AM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
One of Anton LaVey's old interviews suggested that while he did not see Satan as a literal being, he once accepted Theistic Satanists into the CoS, saying it was important that a person developed a personally-relevant concept of Satan they could relate to. However, he followed that up by saying that "Satan demands study, not worship."

I would go so far as to say that Satan is an entity in the same sense that any mythological or cultural concept is an entity-- that is, a meme, a cultural amassing of concepts that we have developed to label certain forces and experiences, that transcends the individual by being a cultural force in of itself. The said forces and experiences our gods are based off of are too abstract for us to classify as distinct entities, so we create deities to fill in this gap. However, they are not sentient in any sense of the word, as they exist in the realm of the subconscious only, at least as far as our scientific understanding demonstrates. But this exchange is not a one-way mirror; man has created the gods, and his gods, in turn, create him, as our own experiences with such entities shape our everyday lives and open up different and strange vistas of reality we may not have noticed before. (In other words, something far more profound than a "mere decorative symbol for enjoyment".)

Alchemy has evolved to Chemistry. Astrology changed to Astronomy. So why can't Religion do likewise and keep the valuable cultural artistry of myth and ritual, but do away with the terribly outdated metaphysics?


Edited by The Zebu (07/05/10 02:42 AM)
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#39984 - 07/05/10 04:25 AM "Study, Not Worship" [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
One of Anton LaVey's old interviews suggested that while he did not see Satan as a literal being, he once accepted Theistic Satanists into the CoS, saying it was important that a person developed a personally-relevant concept of Satan they could relate to. However, he followed that up by saying that "Satan demands study, not worship."

That was in Anton's 1973 interview for the book/record The Occult Explosion (Appendix #91 of COS). However it needs to be accurately understood in its original context in the Church:

 Originally Posted By: Janet F. Aquino II°, The Cloven Hoof, January 1971
[Our first letter concerns a matter of extreme importance to our movement. Please read it carefully, then re-read it! - The High Priest]

Since I joined the Church of Satan two years ago, it has become evident to me that some of our members have a tendency simply to exchange godheads (Satan for God) while still holding fast to their previous, Christian methods of worship. I regard this practice as not only wasteful but potentially dangerous.

If this Satan/God question should ever become a purely semantic argument, our goal will dissolve, and the Church framework will decay and crumble as are the Christian foundations today.

I contend that Satan should be regarded as the human ego raised to infinite perfection. As Satanists we should consider Satan and his hierarchy as beings who in fact epitomize all the human emotions, both carnal and spiritual. They are, in other words, thoroughly aware of our human situation and therefore exhibit sympathy for various predicaments. Satan deserves scholarship, not worship.

The three-headed god of the Christians cannot display any human characteristics, since its station is impossible for any human to attain, no matter how angelic he happens to be in this life. Its followers cannot question, but like sheep are led to the slaughter. They must regard it as supreme in all matters. Faith and humility are favored rather than empiricism and pride.

No true Satanist can regard himself as "insignificant" or "meager". Those are Christian sentiments and have no place in a diabolical vocabulary. Neither self-deprecation nor self-abasement compliments the individual or Satan.

Satan cannot be misrepresented with a God-like image. If this situation occurs, he will be forced to take his place beside God and spend eternity enveloped in adulation. Satan will lose all relevance to the human equation - that precise question which distinguishes him from God in the first place. The truth is that we are the only dynamic intellects in this sadly-misled, guilt-ridden population. Satan is glorified within us and by our actions. To worship him would only handicap such magical abilities as we are capable of possessing.

Rege Satanas!
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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