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#20445 - 02/15/09 10:53 AM Is Satan worshiped?
Faite Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 7
As stupid as this question appears, I'm truly very confused. Is Satan worshiped in LeVeyan Satanism? Or is he more of a symbolic figure? Is this forum focused more on Atheism? Or is it diverse, much like Judaism, where there are those who worship god, and those who do not?

Again, sorry if I seem ignorant. I've been looking through the Satanic Bible, and have found little to explain this yet.




-Faite


Edited by Faite (02/15/09 11:02 AM)

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#20447 - 02/15/09 11:09 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
Again, sorry if I seem ignorant.

Don't worry you don't SEEM.
You just are...

 Quote:
I've been looking through the Satanic Bible, and have found little to explain this yet.

You mustn't look at the SB, you have to read and understand it.
If you don't get it read again.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#20448 - 02/15/09 11:14 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dimitri]
Faite Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 7
Thanks for the rude comments. I HAVE been reading it. I just want an answer.



-Faite

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#20449 - 02/15/09 11:15 AM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: Faite]
Paul Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Debyshire, England
Hi Faite.

First of all expect to get as may versions of this as you get replies.

First a contradiction in terms:- I am 100% an Atheist but I worship Satan.

The reason:- To me Satan is like an avatar for my subconscious.

Consciously the Princes of Hell can be seen as symbolic, embodying attributes you should aspire to.

The subconscious aspect comes into play during ritual magic. By abdicating the power in the ritual to an imaginary third party, your subconscious mind is freed of all restraint and any latent psychic ability you might have, is given full vent.

In TSB LaVey described the ritual as an intellectual decompression chamber. You leave your mundane self outside and give full vent to your fantasies/emotions inside.

I like to think of it as also being psychological slight of hand. You remove the constraints your conscious mind puts on your abilities by using the avatar, Satan.

Hope that helps a bit.

Paul
_________________________
When I'm good I'm good but when I'm bad I'm better!

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#20451 - 02/15/09 11:17 AM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: Paul]
Faite Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 7
Thanks Paul. Good answer. \:\)

I had a feeling I might get a variety of replies, but honestly that's expected from a question like this.




-Faite

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#20452 - 02/15/09 11:21 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Faite
Thanks for the rude comments. I HAVE been reading it. I just want an answer.

You're welcome, next time when you sound ignorant I'll give you a flower together with my rude comments.
Take my advice and read the SB again or any other littrature linked to LaVeyan Satanism before asking idiotic questions.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#20453 - 02/15/09 11:27 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dimitri]
Faite Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 7
Don't you think you're taking this a little far?


-Faite

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#20454 - 02/15/09 11:29 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Faite
Don't you think you're taking this a little far?

Nope only advicing you as a newbie to learn to think.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#20455 - 02/15/09 11:57 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
It has been said that Satan demands study, not worship.
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#20457 - 02/15/09 12:40 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dan_Dread]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
I tend to think of it along the lines of that Satanists are supposed to EMULATE Satan, rather than worship "him". Imitation, after all, is the highest form of flattery. Worship is just pointless ass-kissing.
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#20459 - 02/15/09 01:42 PM WTF [Re: Faite]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
 Quote:
Thanks for the rude comments. I HAVE been reading it. I just want an answer.


You only get what you deserve. And I've said it before and will say it again. Once you conquer the bridge of asses it will be clear to you. Just because you have been reading doesn't mean you have been accepting and understanding. This is what I think he was getting at but apparently it had to be translated into stupid for you to understand.

IF you think that people here will feed you information that you haven't earned then think again you are horribly wrong. You say that you want people to answer your questions, but these questions should be easy to answer on your own even with the source that you previously stated. If you are too stupid to realize then your bad no one is going to help you out when you show such ignorance.

It seems to me that you have much work to go to earn respect (atleast mine)

farewell ~RING~
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20461 - 02/15/09 02:05 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Is Satan worshiped in LeVeyan Satanism?


If you believe yousrself to be your god and identify your superego as "Satan", however he exists in your mind, then you are technically performing self-worship while in a way recognizing the fictional character Satan as a role-model so to speak. Instead of striving to be something you are not and will never be, you identify yourself with Satan and embrace what you are and will always be- a non-perfect emotional human being with more flaws than perfections who should live up to their potential in their current state. Satan as an idol is not worshiped, but the Satan representing humanity is what we aim for. We indulge in "sin" that brings gratification, we do what we feel is "right" and have our own ways of thinking and solving problems. We are independent and answer to no higher being worthy of worship (partly because one does not exist) and live by our own morals. For the Satanist there is none higher than oneself, therefore "worship" of any outside being is ridiculous to even consider to take part in. Even the idea of self-worship is different than it sounds. It is not regarding oneself as an almighty all-knowing being rather than it is recognizing that it is you and no other than is in charge of your life, thus you are your own god in the sense that the one who chooses where you end up is YOU.

Hope I could help. Good luck figuring everything else out on your own.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20518 - 02/16/09 11:57 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Mike]
Faite Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/14/09
Posts: 7
You know, I think I understand this now. And yes, I was stupid I guess. :P


So, Satan is not God, but a being in our mind. We are the highest. So we strive to be individuals. I see. I'm guessing that most of you do not worship a god. I'm guessing, from what was said, that there is a mix of believers and non-believers (God-wise) here.

I honestly see humans as animals, who need to be themselves. I guess when I stop being stupid, I might very well have found a good path. Even so, I will keep researching.

Thanks everyone!


-Faite

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#20521 - 02/16/09 12:58 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
No, Satan is not a god, nor it it a "being in our mind". It is more of an ideological construct/metaphor. That may mean more to some than it does to others.

Worship is kind of a silly prospect. Being that I am my own god, mine own redeemer - I can't see worshipping anybody or anything. To truly exalt myself beyond on all others, even if only in my own mind, it would be counterproductive to bow in subservience. To quote some one who was better with words than I am: "It is far better to die on our feet, than to live on our knees" That may be taken a little out of context, but only to fit the discussion at hand and it is still relevant.

Self worship, that is an entirely different concept which will vary from person to person. There is someone who might have and alter built to themselves where at they burn candles or incense or what ever, and literally praise themselves. That may be bordering on a messiah complex, but to each their own as it were.

Then there are others who might undertake the worship of themselve in an entirely different manner. One might have a weekly ritual of taking an entire day for no one but themselves, perhaps on a boat with a six pack and fishing pole; and that might be how they worship themselves.

Perhaps you worship nothing at all, not even yourself. Perhaps by claiming the title of your own god you are essentialy saying that there is no higher power and you are the only one responsible for your life.

Is Satan worshipped? Probably. Is it a common practice in Satanism; particularly LaVeyan Satanism? That would ultimately depend on who you were talking to. I know that most Satanists, m ost real ones anyway, would say that Satan is not worshipped, not as a supernatural entity anyways. It isn't really rebellious to worship a figure that represents rebellion.

Keep in mind that there is a distinct difference between understanding and comprehending. That is to say - just because you understand what someone is saying, doesn't necessarily mean that you get it. Get it?

Also, there is a difference between stupidity and ignorance. Right now I would say that you are the latter. Right now you are just ignorant to the concept. Luckily there are ways to educate yourself on the subject. If you make a concious effort to learn, yet still some how can't get it through your skull - now THAT is stupidity.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#20524 - 02/16/09 02:25 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
I stumbled across this article while doing some internet sufing. It's a good propogana peice from some ministry. It includes mentions of Charles Manson, Marylin Manson, Susan Atkins, Acquino, and others. Maybe this will help clear up the confusion.

Worship Satan
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#20525 - 02/16/09 02:48 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
You know, I think I understand this now. And yes, I was stupid I guess.


I don't mean to sound 'rude', but I don't think you understood me correctly. And if you think misunderstanding is equal to stupidity, then you are the actual definition of stupid. Not everyone understands Satanism as first. It takes a while, considering it is way more than the eye can see. In time you'll start to see things clearer and you'll get a better grasp of the different aspects of Satanism, but for now just focus on understanding the basic principles of the Satanic Bible. It is clear (to me at least) what the stance is on worship in the Satanic Bible. Maybe reading it over again a few times will do you some good.

 Quote:
I'm guessing that most of you do not worship a god. I'm guessing, from what was said, that there is a mix of believers and non-believers (God-wise) here.


Satanists do not worship a god of any sort. The only mix here when it comes to believing in or not believing in a god (gods) is between "traditional satanists" and "modern satanists". In reality, they are both the same and hold many of the same principles, although if you ask me modern Satanists have a better understanding of exactly what the true nature of this Satan figure actually is. Whether you believe in Satan as a being or a work of your imagination, he is still something that lives within you. God is a force from within, not from without. Remember that.

 Quote:

I honestly see humans as animals, who need to be themselves. I guess when I stop being stupid, I might very well have found a good path. Even so, I will keep researching.

Thanks everyone!


When it comes to Satanism, you are never finished researching. Think of it this way, if the universe is infinite, how is it possible to know everything? If new things are constantly coming about it's impossible to know an infinite amount of information, especially since the human mind can only understand so much. Whether you're aware of it or not, you're constantly searching for answers. That's part of our human nature. My advice to you is to start making the connections between different things you learn until it all makes sense.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20549 - 02/17/09 12:10 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: fakepropht]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
"For starters, never trust a Satanist."

That one was nice... I don't think that cleared up any confusion, though Fakepropht...

Otherwise, Faite, you could subscribe to Mike's "Satanic Qabala For Dummies"... which, I have to admit... has a nice "ring" to it.

Good hunting.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#20551 - 02/17/09 12:18 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: daevid777]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Precisely my point. And to highlight the article. There's a lot of choice gems in there to pick at. I liked the cop's quote about investigating hundreds of crimes (or murders?) and TSB was always present. Satanic Panic!!!!
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#20557 - 02/17/09 12:52 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: fakepropht]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
\:D You's a funny man!

There's another one they have, I think on Marilyn Manson... I read it a while back... it is interesting reading, though.

Satanic Panic, indeed!
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#20558 - 02/17/09 12:54 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: fakepropht]
Linaka113 Offline
member


Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 112
Loc: East Bay 510 CA
Hey Faite,

First of all I agree with all the members comments on this post.It is a must to read the Satanic Bible a few times. Dont be sensitive with what the response's is from your post. To be a Santanist you must have thick skin. If you dont have thick skin then this is not the place for you. With that said take time to read all the forums it will educate you furthermore.


6Hail6Satan6


Edited by Linaka113 (02/17/09 01:20 AM)
Edit Reason: Been up since 4AM
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6Hail6Satan6

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#20561 - 02/17/09 01:08 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Linaka113]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
More confusion...

I've never read the Santanic Bible... I'm sure it's very interesting though.

But if you want to be a Santanist... you'll need to go back a few months... this is February!

To be honest, Santanist really do have to have thick skin, and a belly that jiggles like a bowl full of jelly... it get's cold at the North Pole...

Keep reading... and watch out for Elves.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#20563 - 02/17/09 01:15 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: daevid777]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
How lucky we are that people often misspell Satan, Satanism, or Satanic as Santa, Santaism or Santanic. Dyselexic devil worshippers sell their souls to Santa....

I never see this joke getting old \:D

Seriously though, watch out for the elves.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#20564 - 02/17/09 01:18 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: daevid777]
Linaka113 Offline
member


Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 112
Loc: East Bay 510 CA
LoL daevid, jiggles like a bowl full of jelly ha ha I busted up laughing when I read that but so true.
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6Hail6Satan6

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#20565 - 02/17/09 01:19 AM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: Paul]
NihilisticMystic Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/16/09
Posts: 8
Loc: Albuquerque New Mexico United ...
 Originally Posted By: Paul
Hi Faite.

First of all expect to get as may versions of this as you get replies.

First a contradiction in terms:- I am 100% an Atheist but I worship Satan.

The reason:- To me Satan is like an avatar for my subconscious.

Consciously the Princes of Hell can be seen as symbolic, embodying attributes you should aspire to.

The subconscious aspect comes into play during ritual magic. By abdicating the power in the ritual to an imaginary third party, your subconscious mind is freed of all restraint and any latent psychic ability you might have, is given full vent.

In TSB LaVey described the ritual as an intellectual decompression chamber. You leave your mundane self outside and give full vent to your fantasies/emotions inside.

I like to think of it as also being psychological slight of hand. You remove the constraints your conscious mind puts on your abilities by using the avatar, Satan.

Hope that helps a bit.

Paul


I'd whole heartedly agree with this perspective on the supposed disparity between Satanism and devil worship. I too use satan more as an avatar than anything else.
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#20566 - 02/17/09 01:22 AM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: NihilisticMystic]
Linaka113 Offline
member


Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 112
Loc: East Bay 510 CA
Hey I've been up since 4AM. I must need me some sleep lol.
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6Hail6Satan6

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#20592 - 02/17/09 06:16 AM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: Linaka113]
Paul Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Debyshire, England
Just to tidy up my post a bit. I mean't worship in the "Take part in an act" sense rather than the personal adoration or reverence aspect. I thought the 100% Atheist would make that obvious but ...

I personally revere no-one, always a good starting point for any satanist.

Reminds me of the time, about 20 odd years ago, when the girlfriend of an associate of mine, suddenly turned on me and spat out "You don't consider any woman your equal do you?" I don't know what caused that. I'm as polite and respectful as my Mother brought me up to be. Well until you cross me, that is. Any way I digress. So I looked at her, smiled and said simply "No!". You could see the look of glee on her face as she saw the prospect of another bit of rhetorical "man-bashing". "But then again," I continued "I don't consider any man my equal either!" That shut her up.

I worship no man, no god, no-thing. My rituals are theater, designed to unleash the full power of my subconscious.

Oh, and if anyone's wondering, yes they do work.

See you all around, Paul.
_________________________
When I'm good I'm good but when I'm bad I'm better!

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#21299 - 03/01/09 12:17 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
Just a brief reply, but reading 'Satanism, the feared religion' on the Church of Satan website or The Satanic Scriptures will clarify matters for you. Essential reading! \:\)
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#21302 - 03/01/09 12:24 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: FromGehenna]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
..The Satanic Scriptures..Essential reading!


For whom? Sycophantic hierarchy worshiping CoS drones?

I found it to be rather flat.
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#21338 - 03/01/09 06:36 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dan_Dread]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
 Quote:
..The Satanic Scriptures..Essential reading!


For whom? Sycophantic hierarchy worshiping CoS drones? I found it to be rather flat.


...So that makes at least 2 of us who have experienced the 'Elite' over at Satannet's Letters To The Devil forum. Btw, i'll take The Satanic Scriptures over Satan Speaks! and The Devil's Notebook, the latter of which i bought, gained passing enjoyment from and sold.

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#21581 - 03/05/09 02:50 PM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: Paul]
KaosKrieg Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 30
Loc: NYC, USA
Just to clear something up, Paul. Don't atheists worship nothing (Not even themselves) while Modern/LaVeyan Satanists worship themselves as gods?

From what I've read, that was the fundamental difference between the two.
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"Without order nothing can exist - without chaos nothing can evolve." -- Roger von Oech.

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#21583 - 03/05/09 04:44 PM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: KaosKrieg]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Modern/LaVeyan Satanists generally are atheists, meaning they do not believe in or worship any kind of god or deity.

The "void" of worship, however, is filled with a sort of selfishness and self-reverence that Satanists call "self-deification".

In short, Modern Satanists are a TYPE of Atheist. They are not exclusively separate.
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«Recibe, ˇoh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#21602 - 03/05/09 10:36 PM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: KaosKrieg]
Paul Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Debyshire, England
Hello KaosKrieg

Atheism is merely the belief that god does not exist. It implies neither worship nor the lack of it.

Whilst LaVeyan Satanism is a type of Atheism which includes certain non-theistic occult practices, where Satan is "worshiped" as an archetype or representation of the ego of the celebrant.

Hence no difference.
_________________________
When I'm good I'm good but when I'm bad I'm better!

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#22016 - 03/14/09 08:01 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: fakepropht]
Sharschosen Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 31
I'm not quite a LaVeyan Satanist, thought that is where I satarted, and I still incorporate a lot of that philosophy into my own, but I'm more of a satanic animist. But, I don't worship Satan, or anyone, for that matter, but I do respect him and regard him (or rather, the spirit[s] that answer to the name) as kin.
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#39819 - 07/02/10 04:45 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Sharschosen]
TheSerpent Offline
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Registered: 06/11/10
Posts: 13
Loc: Northern Ireland
If people were to ask me if I worshipped Satan I would say yes!, however I do no worship Satan as in the big red guy who lives in hell, obviously because I do not believe in these mythical anthropomorphic beings, but I worship Satan as in what he represents to me, these representations represent my life, they are the Satanic Statements.
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The Mind is like a parachute, it doesn't work unless you open it!

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#39843 - 07/03/10 03:16 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: fakepropht]
Mr Objective Offline
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Registered: 05/18/10
Posts: 6
Atheist have a philosophy that "this is all there is so we all should get along and be good to one another".

If Satan is the "good being" "he" would not want nor would "he" require adoration. I see the Levey's Satanism as empowering or more accurately liberating.

Most of us have suffered some sort of spiritual abuse. Xians are told they are garbage and need to be born again and Muslims are told to submit and prostrate themselves as they rape their women and girl children. If I was not born right the first time I didn't cause it.

I liken the Abrahamic philosophy of which many of us are victims similar to the toxic relationship between a dysfunctional alcoholic spouse and the other spouse who has been guilted and manipulated into being and enabler and an apologist for being normal.

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#39866 - 07/03/10 01:41 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Mongrel Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: Faite
As stupid as this question appears, I'm truly very confused. Is Satan worshiped in LeVeyan Satanism? Or is he more of a symbolic figure? Is this forum focused more on Atheism? Or is it diverse, much like Judaism, where there are those who worship god, and those who do not?

Again, sorry if I seem ignorant. I've been looking through the Satanic Bible, and have found little to explain this yet.




-Faite



 Quote:
LaVeyan Satanism does not involve the literal worship of any being other than the self,[1] but rather uses "Satan" as a symbol of carnality and earthly values, of man's inherent nature,


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaVeyan_Satanism

Not crazy about using Wiki. But this is what research does for ya.


Edited by Mongrel (07/03/10 01:42 PM)

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#39898 - 07/03/10 11:28 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Faite]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Anton LaVey and the membership of the Church of Satan 1966-1975 believed in and worshipped Satan openly and unabashedly. That's what the Invocation to Satan in the Satanic Bible and the adult rite of Satanic Baptism in the Satanic Rituals were all about. Take a look at the 1968 documentary Satanis here, and read my The Church of Satan history here.

After 1975 [for reasons detailed & documented in COS], Anton and his subsequent followers proclaimed themselves to be atheists, just using "Satan" and "Satanism" as exciting symbols, since Atheism by itself is dull.

Back in the days of the original Church, one media interviewer asked me why he should join the Church of Satan instead of a Christian one. I said, "First, we're cheaper - $13 buys you a lifetime membership [as it still did in 1970]. Secondly our Friday night services are much more fun, sexier, and spookier." We didn't have to argue theology much beyond that most of the time.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#39917 - 07/04/10 05:00 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Odd that the Satanic Bible, published in 1969, makes it quite clear that Satan was not thought of as a literal entity, and instead offers some plainly non-theistic earthly philosophy that only though serious eisegesis or wishful thinking can be re-invented as theism.

I thought you took your one trick pony and left? You make a big dramatic emo post about how you are never coming back, yet here you still are repeating the same crap over and over that you have been repeating all along. Yes we get it, you have an ebook, and real Satanists worship the devil. Go away already.
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#39921 - 07/04/10 06:28 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If you look at some early documentation or interviews, you'll notice that Satan is spoken of differently then is done afterwards. Of course we now translate a mentioning of him as "god" into a symbolic nature because that is the only version we know.

If, or if not, there has been an evolution in how he was perceived is something only those that were part of it during that period know.

D.

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#39926 - 07/04/10 07:31 AM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Mongrel Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/20/10
Posts: 7
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
Anton LaVey and the membership of the Church of Satan 1966-1975 believed in and worshipped Satan openly and unabashedly. That's what the Invocation to Satan in the Satanic Bible and the adult rite of Satanic Baptism in the Satanic Rituals were all about. Take a look at the 1968 documentary Satanis here, and read my The Church of Satan history here.

After 1975 [for reasons detailed & documented in COS], Anton and his subsequent followers proclaimed themselves to be atheists, just using "Satan" and "Satanism" as exciting symbols, since Atheism by itself is dull.

Back in the days of the original Church, one media interviewer asked me why he should join the Church of Satan instead of a Christian one. I said, "First, we're cheaper - $13 buys you a lifetime membership [as it still did in 1970]. Secondly our Friday night services are much more fun, sexier, and spookier." We didn't have to argue theology much beyond that most of the time.


That's quite an extensive writing on the CoS. I read the first 9 pages its great! Saved it to my computer and will read more later.

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#39937 - 07/04/10 12:53 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: Dan_Dread]
NeoZombie Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/21/10
Posts: 60
Loc: Minnesota, USA
Satan, Set, God, Consciousness, and Me are ALL physical real things. It's called the universe. There is not two of any one thing. Do you know anything about quantum mechanics? Let me answer that for you, NO!, you do not. E=MC2 Matter and energy are two different forms of the same thing. Why would you worship a being that needed anything from you? Sounds inferior! Set wants for nothing cause there is no thing Set is not. By the way, where in the universe is Hell?

"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret." ;-)

Might want to take another look at the Dr. cause you ain't ever going to have anything but BS anger with that mind SET.

All one ought...is enjoy.
_________________________
http://www.faculty.virginia.edu/consciousness/
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#39939 - 07/04/10 02:05 PM Re: Is Satan worshiped? [Re: NeoZombie]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: NeoZombie
Satan, Set, God, Consciousness, and Me are ALL physical real things. It's called the universe. There is not two of any one thing. Do you know anything about quantum mechanics? Let me answer that for you, NO!, you do not. E=MC2 Matter and energy are two different forms of the same thing. Why would you worship a being that needed anything from you? Sounds inferior! Set wants for nothing cause there is no thing Set is not. By the way, where in the universe is Hell?

"Speak when you are angry and you will make the best speech you will ever regret." ;-)

Might want to take another look at the Dr. cause you ain't ever going to have anything but BS anger with that mind SET.

All one ought...is enjoy.

LOL why do these new agey types always fall back on QM to justify their beliefs. Don't forget to drink the kool-aide if you want to catch your space-ship on time.
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#39940 - 07/04/10 02:12 PM Re: Is Satan worshipped? [Re: The Zebu]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
Modern/LaVeyan Satanists generally are atheists, meaning they do not believe in or worship any kind of god or deity.

The "void" of worship, however, is filled with a sort of selfishness and self-reverence that Satanists call "self-deification".

In short, Modern Satanists are a TYPE of atheist. They are not exclusively separate.


Good post. I would go further and say 'Atheist' isn't really a relevant term when discussing Satanists or Satanism. Only by contrast to mass psychosis is the term relevant to anything at all.

Yes, Satanists don't invoke superstition or make believe in our view of cosmology, but so what? I also don't sprinkle sand on my sandwiches, but that is neither here nor there.

It makes my eyes roll when people talk about 'Atheism' as if there was some sort of prescribed set of Atheist behaviours, or maybe a secret handshake or even a clubhouse. That's Satanism you're thinking of. ;\)
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#39945 - 07/04/10 04:46 PM Dreadfulness [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Odd that the Satanic Bible, published in 1969, makes it quite clear that Satan was not thought of as a literal entity, and instead offers some plainly non-theistic earthly philosophy that only though serious eisegesis or wishful thinking can be re-invented as theism.

The SB's "Hell, the Devil, and How to Sell Your Soul" essay speaks of Satan and his fellow Dćmons quite literally throughout its 8+ pages. Anton's comment that most Satanists don't accept Satan as the popular comic-book caricature, but rather as the "Powers of Darkness" of nature doesn't disavow this any more than a J/C's denial of YHVH as an old man in a white robe implies disbelief in same as universal creator-principle. And of course, the SB's Invocation to Satan is precisely that, and was so uttered, sincerely, during 1966-1975.

Methinks 600C veterans have discussed this previously, but I was responding here to "Faite", who is apparently new to this question and was [understandably] a bit confused by the post-75 "Church's" frantic Satandoesnotexistism. So I offered a simple, straight answer.

 Quote:
I thought you took your one trick pony and left? You make a big dramatic emo post about how you are never coming back, yet here you still are repeating the same crap over and over that you have been repeating all along. Yes we get it, you have an ebook, and real Satanists worship the devil. Go away already.

I departed previously because I needed to quit having fun on the Internet for awhile and get Draft #11 of The Temple of Set finished and uploaded. Did that. Then I returned since I was welcomed to do so, and because I rather enjoy the highly-intellectual and deeply-thoughtful discussions about Satanism-as-such that prevail here. If my posts upset you, I think you can set your user-profile to censor them from your sight. Be happy, untroubled, and soothed.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#39952 - 07/04/10 05:42 PM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

The SB's "Hell, the Devil, and How to Sell Your Soul" essay speaks of Satan and his fellow Dćmons quite literally throughout its 8+ pages.

Oh what a load of crap. That essay quite clearly places Satan in context of religious mythology. It speaks of satan taking on the animal characteristics of past gods, and names them for the clear purpose of psychodrama. Unless you think Anton believed all of the infernal names represented actual gods?

 Quote:

Then I returned since I was welcomed to do so, and because I rather enjoy the highly-intellectual and deeply-thoughtful discussions about Satanism-as-such that prevail here.

Lies. You are here to push your religious agenda, and to air your 30 plus year old sour grapes. If this were not the case you wouldn't be harping on the exact same point/s (Satanism=devil worship/read my ebook!) eternally. Some of us aren't so dull as you seem to think we are.
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#39954 - 07/04/10 06:20 PM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Dan_Dread]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Oh what a load of crap. That essay quite clearly places Satan in context of religious mythology. It speaks of satan taking on the animal characteristics of past gods, and names them for the clear purpose of psychodrama. Unless you think Anton believed all of the infernal names represented actual gods?

Cultural variations on the same Powers of Darkness principle identified in J/C idiom as "Satan", actually. Satan was understood to be the collective or master-principle, with various dćmons such as Asmodeus, Belial, Leviathan et al. focusing on more specialized and restrictive applications. And the Infernal Names were also pertinent to different historical times and cultures, so workings so-pertinent would address them, as of course in the Satanic Rituals.

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
Lies. You are here to push your religious agenda, and to air your 30 plus year old sour grapes. If this were not the case you wouldn't be harping on the exact same point/s (satanism=devil worship/read my ebook!) eternally. Some of us aren't so dull as you seem to think we are.

I don't recall accusing anyone here of being dull; but if I thought that of someone, I would just sail peacefully on by. And as mentioned above, I was specifically responding to "Faite's" original question here, not to you - though I suppose that when you have your head up your ass, four out of five of your senses aren't working.

Actually, over the last 41 years since I joined the Church of Satan, I have become more and more inclined to recommend people away from Satanism than towards it. Most are intellectually, ethically, and/or emotionally unprepared to handle it, and would just wind up doing damage to themselves or others accordingly. For such I much prefer that they think of Satan as a Devil to be feared and shunned, or as a mere symbol for decorative enjoyment.

 Originally Posted By: Captain Nemo
Think of it. On the surface there is hunger and fear. Men still exercise unjust laws. They fight, tear one another to pieces. A mere few feet beneath the waves their reign ceases, their evil drowns. Here on the ocean floor is the only independence. Here I am free! Imagine what would happen if they controlled machines such as this submarine boat. Far better that they think there's a monster and hunt me with harpoons.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#39956 - 07/04/10 06:44 PM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I was specifically responding to "Faite's" original question here, not to you - though I suppose that when you have your head up your ass, four out of five of your senses aren't working.

On the latter point I would not attempt to argue with experience, and the former..well..I don't care who you were talking to. It seems to me you will drone on about your e-book and what Satanism 'actually' is to anyone that will listen. You are like some sort of eddie munster lookin' grandpa Simpson. I for one am going to kick over your soap box once in a while.


 Quote:

Most are intellectually, ethically, and/or emotionally unprepared to handle it, and would just wind up doing damage to themselves or others accordingly.

Given the way that you define Satanism, I can't help but agree.

 Quote:

or as a mere symbol for decorative enjoyment.

That this is how you interpret what we are doing here just shows you probably never got it to begin with. It's no wonder you can't move past the devil worshipping caricature of Satanism you continually try to sell.
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#39982 - 07/05/10 02:35 AM Re: Dreadfulness [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
One of Anton LaVey's old interviews suggested that while he did not see Satan as a literal being, he once accepted Theistic Satanists into the CoS, saying it was important that a person developed a personally-relevant concept of Satan they could relate to. However, he followed that up by saying that "Satan demands study, not worship."

I would go so far as to say that Satan is an entity in the same sense that any mythological or cultural concept is an entity-- that is, a meme, a cultural amassing of concepts that we have developed to label certain forces and experiences, that transcends the individual by being a cultural force in of itself. The said forces and experiences our gods are based off of are too abstract for us to classify as distinct entities, so we create deities to fill in this gap. However, they are not sentient in any sense of the word, as they exist in the realm of the subconscious only, at least as far as our scientific understanding demonstrates. But this exchange is not a one-way mirror; man has created the gods, and his gods, in turn, create him, as our own experiences with such entities shape our everyday lives and open up different and strange vistas of reality we may not have noticed before. (In other words, something far more profound than a "mere decorative symbol for enjoyment".)

Alchemy has evolved to Chemistry. Astrology changed to Astronomy. So why can't Religion do likewise and keep the valuable cultural artistry of myth and ritual, but do away with the terribly outdated metaphysics?


Edited by The Zebu (07/05/10 02:42 AM)
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#39984 - 07/05/10 04:25 AM "Study, Not Worship" [Re: The Zebu]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2599
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: The Zebu
One of Anton LaVey's old interviews suggested that while he did not see Satan as a literal being, he once accepted Theistic Satanists into the CoS, saying it was important that a person developed a personally-relevant concept of Satan they could relate to. However, he followed that up by saying that "Satan demands study, not worship."

That was in Anton's 1973 interview for the book/record The Occult Explosion (Appendix #91 of COS). However it needs to be accurately understood in its original context in the Church:

 Originally Posted By: Janet F. Aquino II°, The Cloven Hoof, January 1971
[Our first letter concerns a matter of extreme importance to our movement. Please read it carefully, then re-read it! - The High Priest]

Since I joined the Church of Satan two years ago, it has become evident to me that some of our members have a tendency simply to exchange godheads (Satan for God) while still holding fast to their previous, Christian methods of worship. I regard this practice as not only wasteful but potentially dangerous.

If this Satan/God question should ever become a purely semantic argument, our goal will dissolve, and the Church framework will decay and crumble as are the Christian foundations today.

I contend that Satan should be regarded as the human ego raised to infinite perfection. As Satanists we should consider Satan and his hierarchy as beings who in fact epitomize all the human emotions, both carnal and spiritual. They are, in other words, thoroughly aware of our human situation and therefore exhibit sympathy for various predicaments. Satan deserves scholarship, not worship.

The three-headed god of the Christians cannot display any human characteristics, since its station is impossible for any human to attain, no matter how angelic he happens to be in this life. Its followers cannot question, but like sheep are led to the slaughter. They must regard it as supreme in all matters. Faith and humility are favored rather than empiricism and pride.

No true Satanist can regard himself as "insignificant" or "meager". Those are Christian sentiments and have no place in a diabolical vocabulary. Neither self-deprecation nor self-abasement compliments the individual or Satan.

Satan cannot be misrepresented with a God-like image. If this situation occurs, he will be forced to take his place beside God and spend eternity enveloped in adulation. Satan will lose all relevance to the human equation - that precise question which distinguishes him from God in the first place. The truth is that we are the only dynamic intellects in this sadly-misled, guilt-ridden population. Satan is glorified within us and by our actions. To worship him would only handicap such magical abilities as we are capable of possessing.

Rege Satanas!
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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