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#2053 - 11/19/07 08:56 PM Philosophy of 'The Time Machine' and time travel
Meq Offline
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I have started this thread to continue the discussion I started in General Conversation on the philosophical issues raised by the Time Machine novel and movies, in case anyone else is interested.

The original thread was on:
http://www.the600club.com/dir/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2052#post1968


To my posts there, I would like to add that Wells in some ways prefigured Einstein's theory of relativity with his view of time as a 4th dimension of space - the spacetime continuum.

This gave rise to a theoretical basis for time travel which (unfortunately) remains science fiction.

The protagonist in the 2002 movie discusses temporal causality and temporal paradox, philosophical issues involved with theoretical time-travel.


Wells really invented the conception of time travel via a machine for a time traveller, influencing later fiction, movies and video games.

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#2069 - 11/20/07 05:20 AM Re: Philosophy of 'The Time Machine' and time travel [Re: Meq]
Meq Offline
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The original version of The Time Machine featured an additional scene prior to Chapter 11, which was omitted from the original work as it was perceived to be too disturbing.

This scene sees the Time Traveller going into the distant future. Due to the lack of need for struggle, the human bourgeoisie have eventually evolved (or de-evolved - Darwinian evolution implies no aim towards an ideal) into these weak and stupid rabbit-like animals, which are preyed on by enormous insect-like creatures.
Insects have evolved the ability to grow to enormous size and speed, while the now-extinct ancestral Homo Sapiens has evolved into several branches of mammal of closer intelligence to monkeys than humans (and maybe even less).

Insectoid invertebrates have finally taken over the Earth, and post-humans and other mammals are their prey.

Quite a vision of the future, don't ya think? ;\)

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Grey_Man

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#2334 - 11/27/07 03:45 PM Re: Philosophy of 'The Time Machine' and time travel [Re: Meq]
jesusbeater Offline
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Registered: 11/15/07
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you should check out South Land Tales and even the new Futurama. I personally love the Back To the Future movies, I think they might have been the first media to open up my mind to concepts of time travel and its consequences.
I saw the old version of the time machine and loved it as a kid.Have avoided the new version because I fear it will be inferior and ruin any good memories I have of the original.Wells's ideas amaze me more the older I get and see how much some of them are linked to ancient occult philosophies and how he translated these ideas into the public forum and they were loved.
I don't think his vision of the future was too far off the way things are going, especially with globalisation manufacturing nations of slaves for the richer developed west.Technology is evolving our societies into similar weak and stupid creatures.
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#2339 - 11/27/07 05:19 PM Re: Philosophy of 'The Time Machine' and time travel [Re: jesusbeater]
Meq Offline
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 Originally Posted By: jesusbeater
you should check out South Land Tales and even the new Futurama. I personally love the Back To the Future movies, I think they might have been the first media to open up my mind to concepts of time travel and its consequences.
I saw the old version of the time machine and loved it as a kid.Have avoided the new version because I fear it will be inferior and ruin any good memories I have of the original.Wells's ideas amaze me more the older I get and see how much some of them are linked to ancient occult philosophies and how he translated these ideas into the public forum and they were loved.
I don't think his vision of the future was too far off the way things are going, especially with globalisation manufacturing nations of slaves for the richer developed west.Technology is evolving our societies into similar weak and stupid creatures.


The 2002 remake was more a remake of the 1960 original than the original Wells book (and deviates from the original plot somewhat) - I'd personally recommend re-watching the 1960 version before seeing the 2002 update.

Back To The Future always interested me since I was a kid.
In my own time travel novella I wrote age 10 (now lost, unfortunately), I conceived of a portable time machine like a Nintendo Game Boy with an oversized antenna, networking across time to a central time machine - the latest technology in 2252. \:D

Unknown to me at the time, however, the concept I utilised of a time machine was ultimately derived from Wells - whose Victorian novel I read a year later.

I was always more interested in time travel into the near and distant future than into the past, for some reason. The allure of new technology perhaps?

I remember reading Wells online, which certainly made me think about what he would have made of our own information age.
The new movie alludes to this, as the time traveller journeys into the age of space travel and lunar colonies, still dominated by dot coms...

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#2340 - 11/27/07 05:37 PM Wells' uncensored vision of the future of Humanity [Re: Meq]
Meq Offline
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Here is some text from 'The Grey Man' (link above) which describe, in Wells' envisioned future, the descendants of modern man:

 Quote:
"I became aware of a number of faint-grey things, coloured to almost the exact tint of the frost-bitten soil, which were browsing here and there upon its scanty grass, and running to and fro. I saw one jump with a sudden start, and then my eye detected perhaps a score of them. At first I thought they were rabbits, or some small breed of kangaroo. Then, as one came hopping near me, I perceived that it belonged to neither of these groups. It was plantigrade, its hind legs rather the longer; it was tailless, and covered with a straight greyish hair that thickened about the head into a Skye terrier's mane. As I had understood that in the Golden Age man had killed out almost all the other animals, sparing only a few of the more ornamental, I was naturally curious about the creatures. They did not seem afraid of me, but browsed on, much as rabbits would do in a place unfrequented by men..."


 Quote:
"I was surprised to see that the things had five feeble digits to both its fore and hind feet—the fore feet, indeed, were almost as human as the fore feet of a frog. It had, moreover, a roundish head, with a projecting forehead and forward-looking eyes, obscured by its lank hair."


 Quote:
"The faintly human touch of these little creatures perplexed me greatly. If you come to think, there is no reason why a degenerate humanity should not come at last to differentiate into as many species as the descendants of the mud fish who fathered all the land vertebrates."


Depressing?
I don't think so.
It is a real possibility that man might lose his intellectual capacity if it is no longer needed, and evolve into a stupid creature over millions of years.

The question which interests me is?
Do 'we' really have a choice?

Or is the human species just an assortment of genes moving on a deterministic path with no sense of freedom to choose its destiny, as purely naturalistic Darwinism teaches?

Perhaps Wells was right, referring to the collective human need for a sense of progress:
"If that is so, it remains for us to live as though it were not so"...

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#3338 - 01/11/08 12:40 PM Re: Wells' uncensored vision of the future of Humanity [Re: Meq]
Bridgett Leavitt Offline
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Registered: 01/07/08
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I have read some articles on time travel, and i think it is possible, perhaps even used today (our goverment as many secrets). I was reminded of Astral Projection while reading this thread. I'am, have been, for awhile been trying to master an out of body expirience. This shit is fuckin intense, have you any knowledge of this? If not, you should check it out.
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