Page 2 of 5 <12345>
Topic Options
#21166 - 02/26/09 05:21 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I used the Poe reference as a lame attempt to express that I didn't believe Crowley was writing "literally" with the holy guardian angel... thing.

I'm certainly aware of "the divine Edgar"s poems... (now where did I get that quote?).

Jake999 just nailed it though... so no need to go any further.
_________________________
Where we're going, we don't need roads.

Top
#26037 - 06/23/09 09:43 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I look up to Crowley in a very high manner. Do what thou wilt is one of the very few things that has made an impact on me and my life.
Top
#26043 - 06/23/09 11:44 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Texas
Please explain that statement. How has it impacted your life? What does it mean to you?
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#26086 - 06/23/09 10:27 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
Scarlett156 Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
Was AC a satanist? In my opinion, no: He wasn't much of a one for those easy classifications. He was often referred to as a satanist by those who have a need to categorize things, but I don't think he ever thought of himself as one, and I'm sure that his close associates didn't either. (Wasn't it Dr. Regardie who called him a "God-besotted man"...?)

The current "luciferian" movement would have, I'm pretty sure, amazed Crowley in several ways. He would have thoroughly approved of its commercial and sensationalistic aspects, as well as its potential for manipulating and mobilizing large numbers of neebs, but I don't think he would have a lot of respect for its basis of teaching, as it's something a kabalist would consider fairly one-dimensional. (I'm not slagging on Luciferianism, btw--I think it's interesting, and I've met some pretty heavy people who are Luciferians--I'm just trying to consider how AC would have viewed it.)

Not that Crowley was ever terribly upset at being referred to as a satanist, either, though. He was a glutton for attention, good, bad, or indifferent.

~~~ yours in Chaos, Scarlett
_________________________
"I can fling poo gooder than u"

Top
#26111 - 06/24/09 07:24 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Edit: L Ron Hubbard was a student of Aliester Crowley

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Please explain that statement. How has it impacted your life? What does it mean to you?


To me it means exactly what it says "Do what thou wilt", it is a guideline in my life that I do not have to conform to what is going on around me, it lets me step to the side lane and explore what interests me, it allows me to have my own experiences without having someone tell me "No" or "you are doing it wrong". If I never read that quote I wouldn't be the person I am today. To me it means "Do what you want", nothing more, nothing less.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/24/09 07:32 AM)

Top
#26143 - 06/24/09 05:49 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Are you aware that saying has a "deeper" meaning behind it other than just doing whatever you want? Thelema is about more than that. It is more about achieving your "destiny"(for lack of a better word) than just doing whatever you feel like.

If Crowley had never wrote those words in The Book of the Law, do you still think you would have the testicular fortitude to "do what thou wilt"? For me just being alive allows me to do all those things you spoke of.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26164 - 06/24/09 11:26 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Texas
Thank you 6. Their response was exactly what I was fishing for. Far too many people don't know or understand the true meaning behind that statement. It does not give a person carte blanche to act however they want. Or indulge however they want.

It means fulfilling the "will". The "will" being the subconscious. It is difficult to put into simple words for everyone to understand. Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me. Thelema is not a strong suit of mine. For lack of a better explanation, I will refer to the wiki article.

"According to Crowley, every individual has a True Will, to be distinguished from the ordinary wants and desires of the ego. The True Will is essentially one's "calling" or "purpose" in life. Some later magicians have taken this to include the goal of attaining self-realization by one's own efforts, without the aid of God or other divine authority. This brings them close to the position that Crowley held just prior to 1904.[53] Others follow later works such as Liber II, saying that one's own will in pure form is nothing other than the divine will.[54] Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law for Crowley refers not to hedonism, fulfilling everyday desires, but to acting in response to that calling. The Thelemite is a mystic.[53] According to Lon Milo Duquette, a Thelemite is anyone who bases their actions on striving to discover and accomplish their true will,[55] when a person does their True Will, it is like an orbit, their niche in the universal order, and the universe assists them.[56] In order for the individual to be able to follow their True Will, the everyday self's socially-instilled inhibitions may have to be overcome via deconditioning.[57][58] Crowley believed that in order to discover the True Will, one had to free the desires of the subconscious mind from the control of the conscious mind, especially the restrictions placed on sexual expression, which he associated with the power of divine creation.[59] He identified the True Will of each individual with the Holy Guardian Angel, a daimon unique to each individual.[60] The spiritual quest to find what you are meant to do and do it is also known in Thelema as the Great Work.[61]"
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#26245 - 06/25/09 04:45 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
"Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me"

I am working on a rationalization/exploration of the concept and journey atm - I am currently focusing on the art of meditation as a means of conversation with the HGA.

I still have to answer a friend who once asked me to explain the concept of all is one;)

The two concepts are one and the same, to a point.

Magnum Opus

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

Top
#26292 - 06/26/09 07:04 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Are you aware that saying has a "deeper" meaning behind it other than just doing whatever you want? Thelema is about more than that. It is more about achieving your "destiny"(for lack of a better word) than just doing whatever you feel like.

If Crowley had never wrote those words in The Book of the Law, do you still think you would have the testicular fortitude to "do what thou wilt"? For me just being alive allows me to do all those things you spoke of.


I can guarantee you that we come from very two different walks of life.

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Thank you 6. Their response was exactly what I was fishing for. Far too many people don't know or understand the true meaning behind that statement. It does not give a person carte blanche to act however they want. Or indulge however they want.

It means fulfilling the "will". The "will" being the subconscious. It is difficult to put into simple words for everyone to understand. Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me. Thelema is not a strong suit of mine. For lack of a better explanation, I will refer to the wiki article.

"According to Crowley, every individual has a True Will, to be distinguished from the ordinary wants and desires of the ego. The True Will is essentially one's "calling" or "purpose" in life. Some later magicians have taken this to include the goal of attaining self-realization by one's own efforts, without the aid of God or other divine authority. This brings them close to the position that Crowley held just prior to 1904.[53] Others follow later works such as Liber II, saying that one's own will in pure form is nothing other than the divine will.[54] Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law for Crowley refers not to hedonism, fulfilling everyday desires, but to acting in response to that calling. The Thelemite is a mystic.[53] According to Lon Milo Duquette, a Thelemite is anyone who bases their actions on striving to discover and accomplish their true will,[55] when a person does their True Will, it is like an orbit, their niche in the universal order, and the universe assists them.[56] In order for the individual to be able to follow their True Will, the everyday self's socially-instilled inhibitions may have to be overcome via deconditioning.[57][58] Crowley believed that in order to discover the True Will, one had to free the desires of the subconscious mind from the control of the conscious mind, especially the restrictions placed on sexual expression, which he associated with the power of divine creation.[59] He identified the True Will of each individual with the Holy Guardian Angel, a daimon unique to each individual.[60] The spiritual quest to find what you are meant to do and do it is also known in Thelema as the Great Work.[61]"



I don't follow Thelema, "do what thou wilt" has a meaning to me, it was something that I read that clicked inside of me, it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right, you asked what it meant to me.

If you want to go fishing, use the right line.

Top
#26313 - 06/26/09 06:07 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
"it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right"

No, fake doesn't think you have the wrong answer, he knows you do. And your opinion does not make you right. If this premise were so, then all the students I have marked wrong over the years could have argued the fact. There is no right or wrong considering interpretation, but there is when comprehension is the matter at hand.

Comprehension (and eventually Wisdom) can only be developed when the reliance on self-centred paradigms is destroyed.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

Top
#26318 - 06/26/09 07:38 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: Mercury_Templar
"it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right"

No, fake doesn't think you have the wrong answer, he knows you do. And your opinion does not make you right. If this premise were so, then all the students I have marked wrong over the years could have argued the fact. There is no right or wrong considering interpretation, but there is when comprehension is the matter at hand.

Comprehension (and eventually Wisdom) can only be developed when the reliance on self-centred paradigms is destroyed.

M.'.T.'.


If he wanted the right answer to what coincides with his studies, why didn't he ask what it means? By adding "to you" at the end he has generally asked how I interperate what "Do what thou wilt" means, what it means to me, not what it should mean to everyone, not what Crowley intended it to mean, not what people study for to find out. So really, since he made it a personal question by asking what it means to me, I gave him the right answer, because I told him what it means to me. I answered his question, he just worded it wrong.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/26/09 07:40 PM)

Top
#26324 - 06/26/09 09:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The reason he asked what it means to you was to point out how so many people misinterpret what was meant by it. It doesn't matter what you THINK it means. You can't just take any phrase you want, change the meaning and have it be true.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#26327 - 06/26/09 10:19 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Texas
No, I worded it exactly the way I wanted to on purpose. So you could stumble around it and fumble the football. It doesn't matter what it "means to me". What matters is the real meaning behind the statement. Too many Satanists(term used loosely) think that they can just take a bit of this and a bit of that and interpret what they want to suit their path and call it Satanism.

I like this, but I don't like that. Sorry, that isn't how it works.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#26336 - 06/27/09 05:08 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
The reason he asked what it means to you was to point out how so many people misinterpret what was meant by it. It doesn't matter what you THINK it means. You can't just take any phrase you want, change the meaning and have it be true.


Don't you have to study something to understand it, to know what it means? I don't study Thelema and I do not study Aleister Crowley's writings, I took that one line, applied it to myself and it helped me.. Big deal?

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
No, I worded it exactly the way I wanted to on purpose. So you could stumble around it and fumble the football. It doesn't matter what it "means to me". What matters is the real meaning behind the statement. Too many Satanists(term used loosely) think that they can just take a bit of this and a bit of that and interpret what they want to suit their path and call it Satanism.

I like this, but I don't like that. Sorry, that isn't how it works.


Are you saying you are not a Satanist if you do not follow Aleister Crowleys writings? I do not follow his writings, something he wrote and said that I came across meant something to me, I didn't buy his books, I won't buy his books, so I'm sorry if I didn't satisfy you by answering your question correctly, but you did word it wrong, and you got the right answer from me, because you asked what it meant to me, if you didn't want what it meant to me you shouldn't have asked the way you did.

Next time, ask "What does that statement mean?", so you will be putting someone on the spot to answer directly what the statement means in general, not what it means to them personally, better yet, maybe you should ask if they follow Crowleys teachings and Thelema also and that way when you put your elitist attitude hat on you will have a just reason to decide if they are a Satanist or not.

For the record, "Do what thou wilt" wasn't what got me into Satanism.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/27/09 05:09 AM)

Top
#26348 - 06/27/09 02:04 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 988
Loc: Texas
This is going to go nowhwere.

 Quote:
Don't you have to study something to understand it, to know what it means? I don't study Thelema and I do not study Aleister Crowley's writings, I took that one line, applied it to myself and it helped me.. Big deal?


Right. So because I like the color green, I will declare myself a fan of the Green Bay Packers and proudly run around wearing their jerseys and plaster my car with their team stickers. After all, I don't have to know shit about them or their history, or even live nearby. I like green, therefore I am a Green Bay Packer fan.

If something is so profound and means so much to a person, I would expect that person to at least explore it a bit. Get a little history behind it, learn the thoughts that went into the statement, instead of just snatching it and moving on.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
Page 2 of 5 <12345>


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist, Fnord 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.027 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.