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#43161 - 09/22/10 03:56 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
Autodidact Offline
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Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer
since none of them seemed to capture the larger picture of the whole, i set about constructing a Complete and Authoritative Commentaries web page referencing a number of sources available that i have collected (mostly hard-copy), and am now in the middle of completing its notations. I'd be interested in response to it. I don't know if anyone's used this format before me (usually editors place the entirety of the holograph before or after some version of the text, nobody bothers to reproduce incidentals or incorporate successive editors' contributions).


This is nice - for those studying the commentaries, this should be very helpful.

As for Crowley himself, and Thelema in general, well, I find him/it verbose and confusing. Einstein said (and I believe), "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother," and I cannot for the life of me find a clear, detailed, objective review of Thelemic philosophy.

I can find plenty of long-winded, pseudo-metaphorical pieces, though. And the saturation of gematria throughout just seems ... well, overly emphatic. The human brain can find patterns in anything; that doesn't mean they're meaningful patterns.

There are some gems in his stuff, but for a guy whose basic principle is applying the scientific method to religion and spirituality, the resulting literature sure is haphazard.
_________________________
An nescis, mi fili, quantilla prudentia mundus regatur?

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#48805 - 02/13/11 10:55 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
lightlight Offline
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Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i think he was a satanist on a much deeper level
it's been kind of a while since i read Crowley (not very much into the occult/Satanism at this point) but i remember reading certain parts of thelema like "the dogs of reason". he's basically telling you to do what the fuck you want to do and let others draw their own conclusions (alpha male 101)

i think he was a satanists but he just wasn't so out and about with his beliefs...and rightly so. why would he want to create more wolves out there?

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#48813 - 02/13/11 11:53 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: lightlight]
myk5 Offline
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Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I agree that real comprehension of any idea allows expression of that idea simply. Though there are exception for concepts that are only relevant in light of many other concepts many people may be unaware of.

Really the fact that Crowley structured his order around attainment of conversation with the HGA (Holy guardian Angel!) and would banish any who didn't fall in line (Austen Osman Spare!) ...and his doctrine of an almost sacred almost predestined 'true will' beyond your casual desire, it leads me to believe Crowley was at his core close to being a Christian, despite the fact his attitudes could be interpreted as sympathetic with Anton LaVey's Satanic philosophy.

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#49000 - 02/16/11 10:11 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: myk5]
lightlight Offline
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Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i don't know how Crowley was interpreted by anyone else. i do know that he liked to call himself anti-christian things. i do know that he considered black magic something that wasn't exactly what you wanted/not consciously done/etc as opposed to something morally bad. and i do know certain things he's said in what he's written ('at first the magus uses truth to send forth illusion..but therin lies his redempton')

when it comes to you considering him christian you should realize that the bible and christain morality are pletely based around the bias of god. it's possible that he wanted to make himself a god in a way and he wanted the holy gaurdian spirit to be something very thelematic...basicallty, that he wanted to shift your view so sthat it wa based around the bias of thelema...do you get what i'm saying?

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#49410 - 02/22/11 09:30 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
heretic Offline
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Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 13
Don't belittle the lovely "Beast of the East". He had many ideas. He was doing the best he could in an unenlightened era. Not many are brave enough to do that much.


heretic

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#61591 - 11/19/11 02:23 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Lets take a look at Aleister Crowley's spiritual history.
He was raised in a way that he later rejected- in fact he was a very prominent Mason. In the year 1900, he was given the mystery degree of 33rd Degree in the Masonic Temple. However, he ended up leaving the Masonic Temple in what proved to be a fantastic effort to become a prominent Black Magician. His crossover is THE reason for so much confusion and controversy behind rather he was Right or Left Handed.
Many might not realize this, but he coined the term Left Handed versus Right Handed. This creation alone shows his Hand of choice if you break down the psychology of a former Mason and the way he uses the term Left Handed in his literature.
From a historian point of view, no White Magician in the early 1900's would have given recognition or credit to the wonders of Black Magic, as Crowley did in his literature repeatedly.
Here I will quote Crowley literature:
-Book IV
-Part Three: Magick in Theory and Practice
-Chapter V: The Formula of I.A.O.
-Aeon of Horus

"O The exatled "Devil" (also the other secret Eye) by the formula of the Initiation of Horus elswhere described in this detail. The "Devil" is called Satan or Shaitan, and regarded with horror by people who are ignorant of his formula, and, imagining themselves to be evil, accuse Nature herself of their own phantasmal crime. Satan is Saturn, Set, Abrasax, Adad, Adonis, Attis, Adam, Adonai, etc."

Clearly we see a innocent view of a Black Magician who was polytheistic.

-Book IV
-Appendix IV
-Liber Samekh
-Section C. Fire

"I invoke Thee, the Terrible and Invisible God: Who dwellest in the Void Place of the Spirit:-
AR-O-GO-GO-RU-ABRAO 'Thou spiritual Sun! Satan, Thou Eye, Thou Lust! Cry Aloud! Whirl the Wheel, O my Father, O Satan, O Sun!'"

I encourage you all to examine his literature with a lens I derived as I am genetically a Crowley (great grandson)- in the sense that his literature has the tendency of a mindtrick. Crowley intended for humans to read his literature and learn to trust their intuition that already understood how to place deities within their hearts and minds- as if to say we are born a Satanist. Does that mean we all profess to be a Satanist? Certainly we have all seen examples where even Satan himself would say that its better to keep your identity concealed- at least to a certain extent. This is true Crowley tended to anti-confuse us or use reverse psychology in our own special Crowley manner. Hmmmm, interesting shit mate! Bloody fascinating!

In closing, to answer the question on the thread, Aleister Crowley was a Luciferican UNTIL he left the Masonic Temple and shortly thereafter founded the Thelema, as the 33rd Degree of the Masonic Temple's rites and oaths state that "Lucifer is God"- and they view Lucifer in a white light perspective. However, take note that he founded the Thelema as a Left Handed Black Magick society and the O.T.O. was thereafter no longer a Masonic organization thereby. The O.T.O. website has even stated "we are no longer a Masonic organization", entailing that yes for a time they were. Satan bless Aleister Crowely for tilting the worlds axis just a touch Left, to say the least to play the Beast!
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"I知 just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61592 - 11/19/11 03:21 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: LeftHandonFeet
I encourage you all to examine his literature with a lens I derived as I am genetically a Crowley (great grandson)- in the sense that his literature has the tendency of a mindtrick.


Care to elaborate how you relate to Crowley?

D.

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#61594 - 11/19/11 04:32 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Yes, as mentioned in the post, I am his great grandson. My fathers father was Aleister Crowleys son. I suppose I could show you a pic of my father and grandfather standing together, as well as a photo of my grandfather at a young age with Aleister Crowley who was his father, but I am new to 600 Club and do not see a way to post pics on individual posts.

Just so happens my grandfather went astray from the Beasts wishes for his life, and my father turned out alot different than you might anticipate a DNA Crowley to turn out. I count myself blessed to have walked the Path that my great grandfather foresaw me taking, that is to say one that does not oppose Satan. He was an amazingly clairvoyant man- he even sealed off handwritten letters for me to read on certain days to confirm I was on the right path- very detailed letters at that!

To restate the answer to your question, Aleister Crowley had a son who bore my father- so I am his great grandson.
_________________________
"I知 just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61595 - 11/19/11 04:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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It's not that I don't want to believe you but as far as I know, the only son Crowley had was Aleister Attaturk or Charles Edward d'Arquires and he lived in the UK.

So what son would your grandfather be?

D.

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#61596 - 11/19/11 04:55 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Well I certainly see your point, but keep in mind famous occultist- or any celebrity of sorts for that matter- dont always care to reveal their entire family tree to the world. This explains how I was raised in San Francisco as some of his family ended up there when he moved there. I suppose I would elaborate but come to think of it, how am I to prove this through the means of the 600 Club? I personally dont care to reveal my fathers name for several valid reasons so I will leave it at that- or my grandfather for that matter. Should you care to disregard my post on "Crowley: Satanist or Luciferian?" due to not knowing 100% that I am related to Aleister Crowley then that is entirely your choice- I only thought to share my insight on his spirituality from an insiders perspective, if you shall. By the way, its recorded in his literature that he was given the 33rd Degree as a Freemason, so its not just a family secret.
_________________________
"I知 just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61597 - 11/19/11 05:04 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The issue is I've seen quite a lot of offspring of the "famous" and this far, none of them was true so you can understand I'm quite skeptical when seeing another not?

It is known Crowley did not bother too much about birth control and had quite some children but most of them are known. And it appears there is only one son and he died in the UK in 2002.

So you know, this triggered my curiosity, as I've encountered an email of you before on SIN upon that subject. So I googled a bit, stalker is appropriate I know, and you know David, nothing indicates you are related. Your last name doesn't show much lineage.

Of course, there might be things not known to me but your avoidance doesn't really make it credible.

D.

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#61598 - 11/19/11 05:24 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Honestly I don't care to prove my ancestry through and through on a public post for one reason and one reason alone- some people might read my family members names that I dont care to read them. This of course could lead to them locating me in a way that I'm not comfortable with. Obviously I'm comfortable sharing my beliefs on the web as you see I'm on the 600 Club- but I will leave you with this piece of information- my last name comes from my grandfather having taken another name other than Crowley- thats the reason you wont see my family tree headed back to the Beast. And yes this is true, there are things not known to you- I would say theres a good reason for that. It doesnt bother me if someone doesnt believe Im related to Aleister Crowley. I enjoy it for myself quite thoroughly.
_________________________
"I知 just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61599 - 11/19/11 05:31 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's simple, if you don't care to prove your ancestry or don't care if people believe you or not; do not mention it.

First, anyone can claim to be anything. Second, what's the use even if it would be true?

I don't believe you and that's it.

So either you back it up, our you quit mentioning it because here, any claim requires sufficient backup or argumentation.

D.

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#61600 - 11/19/11 05:32 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
As far as an email of SIN goes, Im not sure what thats about but I have had very little interaction with SIN. Not to say anything about SIN or give a personal stance on SIN, but Im factually stating that I did not go into my ancestry in detail with SIN.
_________________________
"I知 just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61601 - 11/19/11 05:37 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: SIN post
...Crowley is my Great Grandfather so I take personal pride in the pronunciation of his/my last name ...


D.

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