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#61613 - 11/19/11 11:20 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
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It's rather poor taste to make such claims with no intention to substantiate them.

But if I had a quarter for every time I ran into someone claiming to be a long-lost descendant of Crowley.... I'd have $1.75.


Edited by The Zebu (11/19/11 11:20 PM)
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#61615 - 11/20/11 12:01 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
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I'm confused. How would the super secret serial grandson of Crowley know what was what when it comes to Crowley? Being unknown or illegitimate implies not really knowing Crowley, so another non authority on the subject matter, trying to show expertise.

Anyway, Crowley was a Thelemite, not a Satanist or a Luciferian. \:\)
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#61630 - 11/20/11 05:23 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
FS- you missed the point of my initial post all together- many ask rather Crowley was Right or Left Handed due to the fact that he was formerly a Mason. Notice I used Crowley literature and not speculation to show evidence of his transition? On the topic of "expert", I cant help but wonder who called you an expert but Im not so sure they are experts themselves. Nice try though!
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#61637 - 11/20/11 10:30 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
The Zebu Offline
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 Quote:
many ask rather Crowley was Right or Left Handed due to the fact that he was formerly a Mason.


I don't think his Masonic involvement (which in turn is disputed) would be relevant to this question, since Masonic mysticism varies radically among different rites and lodges.

As for the orientation of Thelema, Crowley's ideas clearly have elements of the LHP, such as sex magic, self-deification rites, taboo-breaking, etc. (Of course, Crowley had a flawed definition of the "left hand", owing mostly to Blavatsky.) Conversely, there are also RHP influences, such as dualism and contemplative meditations.

Whether Crowley himself had achieved spiritual mastery through such radical practices is another question altogether. (I personally think that his relationship failures, drug addiction, legal squabbles, and magus-complex suggest the negative, but having not known the man, I cannot speak with ultimate authority on the matter.


Edited by The Zebu (11/20/11 10:30 PM)
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#61660 - 11/22/11 10:41 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 552
Loc: The Dirty South
Do they have sarcasm where you come from Left? You came in this thread and when questioned cited lineage. Then when questioned on it, went super vague. Your lineage is nothing, it doesn't show your knowledge on this subject.

I still don't see what Crowley being a Mason (which is disputed and he frequently mocks Masonry in his writings) has to do with him being LHP or RHP.

As for my stating that Crowley was a Thelemite, he was. \:\) Thelma rides the line between LHP and RHP, so I feel Crowley did to.
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#61662 - 11/22/11 12:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
This is very true that the Beast mocked Freemasonry in his writings- but anyone deep enough in the Masonic Temple to have acheived the 33rd Degree will inevitably have lots of white magic influence in their selves. This includes their way of thinking, their speech, their writings and all their habits. As you said, the Thelema does seem to have a bit of a grey area in some of their tendencies- this of course comes from the Beasts influences pre-1903. As he grew older, it was very unusually obvious he was a pure Left Handed magician- he was even called the Worlds Wickedest Man. No Mason would want to be called wicked, thats for sure- Crowley enjoyed the title quite thorougly. : )
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#61698 - 11/23/11 10:19 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Vlad Offline
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Registered: 03/09/10
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Loc: Virginia
The Masonic Lodges Crowley belonged to were not orthodox Lodges. He never once belonged to a Lodge that was accepted by the Grand Lodge of England and as such, to any true Freemason, Crowley is not considered a Mason. The Masonry practiced in the Lodges attended by Crowley are by no means related to actual Freemasonry or the Scottish Rite. Crowley petitioned the Grand Lodge of England to have the right to join and attend any Lodge based on his prior experiences, however, no response was given due to the irregularity of his Lodges.

Crowley's 33rd degree was nominally given to him by various radical, breakaway lodges. To call him a Mason or Masonically oriented is doing a great disservice to the occult philosophies the man put forth as well as to the body of Freemasonry as a whole. The whole notion of a 33rd degree is foolish as well. There is no degree higher than Master Mason, which is the degree held by ALL Masons. The other degrees do not denote hierarchy but involvement with the Scottish Rite (of which Crowley could not have been a part of due to his involvement in irregular Lodges). The Scottish Rite is simply a means of better understanding the ideals and philosophies of Freemasonry, nothing more. The degrees do not have to go in order, nor do they have to come one at a time. The 33rd degree is not even part of the Rite, but rather an honorary title bestowed upon Masons who have, through positions in higher areas of society, showcased Masonic principles and helped the world at large. Only a very small number of people hold this title, as so few people are in a position to exemplify it.

A little better understanding of Freemasonry is in order before we can start making comments on the organization as a whole or someone's involvement with it.

Now, Crowley was neither Satanic in the sense used by most here nor was he particularly Luciferian. He was simply a Western occultist whose ideas were rooted in the various initiatory and ritualized Hermetic organizations of the time. His Thelema was a libertine religion with influences from a wide range of occult practices including the Kabbalah, the Tarot, alchemy and ritual magick.

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#80910 - 10/06/13 07:19 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: The Zebu]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
"Satanic, yes. Satanist, no." I'd call that a tribute of the highest order ;\)

You are aware that we have a rule against one line posts? I'm getting tired of cleaning up after you. Fix it, please.


Edited by Fnord (10/17/13 01:12 PM)
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#81225 - 10/17/13 03:12 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Maikl Offline
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Registered: 10/04/13
Posts: 36
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Anyway, Crowley was a Thelemite, not a Satanist or a Luciferian. \:\)


Beat me to it, lol.

He was occultic, sure. He dabbled in areas and discussed spirituality or philosophy relevant to both Luciferians and Satanists. But it does take a claim or intentional devotion which I could deem him, satanist, luciferian etc
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#91806 - 08/15/14 10:52 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Maikl]
luz Offline
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Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 136
This is somewhat of a meaningless post, but I'll make it anyway to bump up the thread. If Crowley revealed magick secrets than these are for the use of anyone including Satanists. It does little matter whether he himself was one.
I also have a personal reason for being interested. He is my husband's favorite author \:D And also I printed 20 pages of Magic Without Tears and am looking for the peace to sit and read them.
So exciting to be on this forum and to have the opportunity to share my experiences and perceptions on my way.

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