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#20584 - 02/17/09 05:28 AM A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ?
Berruelle Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 2
The Englishman was never clear on this subject !
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#20594 - 02/17/09 06:48 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
spiderbreeder Offline
member


Registered: 11/29/08
Posts: 300
Loc: Sydney,Australia
I'm sure that if you did a bit of research, and read up on the subject, you would find the answer to your question all on your own.
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REGIE SATANAS!

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#20599 - 02/17/09 07:34 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: spiderbreeder]
Berruelle Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 2
Well , of course i read up, and some say he was a luciferian but i found NO PROOF to the claim !

He just boasted he was the meanest man in the United Kingdom.

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#20610 - 02/17/09 10:58 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I think it is quite obvious the he was a Rastafarian....
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No gods. No masters.

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#20611 - 02/17/09 11:42 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Linaka113 Offline
member


Registered: 10/28/08
Posts: 112
Loc: East Bay 510 CA
Aleister Crowley, born Edward Alexander Crowley (pronounced /ˈkroʊli/), (12 October 1875 – 1 December 1947), was a British occultist, writer, mountaineer, poet, and yogi.[1] He was an influential member of several occult organizations, including the Golden Dawn, the A∴A∴, and Ordo Templi Orientis (O.T.O.),[2] and is best known today for his occult writings, especially The Book of the Law, the central sacred text of Thelema. He gained much notoriety during his lifetime, and was dubbed "The Wickedest Man In the World."[3]

Crowley was also a chess player, painter, astrologer, hedonist, bisexual, drug experimenter, and social critic. He was a 33 degrees Freemason,[4] but the regularity of his initiations have been disputed by a member of the Grand Lodge of British Columbia and Yukon.[5]


Edward Alexander Crowley was born at 36 Clarendon Square in Royal Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, England, between 11:00pm and midnight on October 12, 1875.[6]

His father, Edward Crowley, was trained as an engineer but according to Aleister, never worked as one[7]. He did, however, own shares in a lucrative family brewery business, which allowed him to retire before Aleister was born. Through his father's business he was an acquaintance of Aubrey Beardsley. His mother, Emily Bertha Bishop, drew roots from a Devon and Somerset family.[7] Both of his parents were Exclusive Brethren, a more conservative faction of the Plymouth Brethren.[8]

Crowley grew up in a staunch Brethren household and was only allowed to play with children whose families followed the same faith. His father was a fanatical preacher, travelling around Britain and producing pamphlets. Daily Bible studies and private tutoring were mainstays in "Alick's" childhood.

On February 29, 1880[9], a sister, Grace Mary Elizabeth, was born but lived only five hours. Crowley was taken to see the body and in his own words (in the third person):

"The incident made a curious impression on him. He did not see why he should be disturbed so uselessly. He couldn't do any good; the child was dead; it was none of his business. This attitude continued through his life. He has never attended any funeral but that of his father, which he did not mind doing, as he felt himself to be the real centre of interest."[10]
On March 5, 1887, his father died of tongue cancer. This was a turning point in Crowley's life, after which he then began to describe his childhood in the first person in his Confessions.

After the death of his father to whom he was very close, he drifted from his religious upbringing, and his mother's efforts at keeping her son in the Christian faith only served to provoke his skepticism. When he was a child, his constant rebellious behaviour displeased his mother to such an extent that she would chastise him by calling him "The Beast" (from the Book of Revelation), an epithet that Crowley would later adopt for himself. He objected to the labelling of what he saw as life's most worthwhile and enjoyable activities as "sinful".


University
In 1895, he went to Trinity College, Cambridge, after studying at the public schools Malvern College, Eastbourne College and Tonbridge School, and originally had the intention of reading Moral Sciences (philosophy), but with approval from his personal tutor, he switched to English literature, which was not then a part of the curriculum offered.[11] His three years at Cambridge were happy ones, due in part to coming into the considerable fortune left by his father.

Here he finally broke with the Church of England, internally if not externally:

"The Church of England [...] had seemed a narrow tyranny, as detestable as that of the Plymouth Brethren; less logical and more hypocritical."
"When I discovered that chapel was compulsory I immediately struck back. The junior dean halled me for not attending chapel, which I was certainly not going to do, because it involved early rising. I excused myself on the ground that I had been brought up among the Plymouth Brethren. The dean asked me to come and see him occasionally and discuss the matter, and I had the astonishing impudence to write to him that 'The seed planted by my father, watered by my mother's tears, would prove too hardy a growth to be uprooted even by his eloquence and learning.'"[10]
In December 1896, following an event that he describes in veiled terms, Crowley decided to pursue a path in occultism and mysticism. By the next year, he began reading books by alchemists and mystics, and books on magic.[6] Biographer Sutin describes the pivotal New Year's event as a homo-erotic experience (Crowley's first) that brought him what he considered "an encounter with an immanent deity."[12] During the year of 1897, Aleister further came to see worldly pursuits as useless. The section on chess below, describes one experience that helped him reach this conclusion. In October a brief illness triggered considerations of mortality and "the futility of all human endeavor," or at least the futility of the diplomatic career that Crowley had previously considered.[13]

A year later, he published his first book of poetry (Aceldama), and left Cambridge, only to meet Julian L. Baker (Frater D. A.) who introduced him to Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers and the Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn.

Bisexuality
Throughout the period of 1895, he allegedly maintained a vigorous sex life, which was largely conducted with prostitutes and girls he picked up at local pubs and cigar shops, but eventually extended into homosexual activities in which he played the passive role.[14] During the course of his life, Crowley practiced sexual magic rituals with both men and women. Biographer Sutin recounts Crowley's relationship[15] with, and lasting feelings[16] for, Herbert Charles Pollitt, whom he met while at Cambridge in 1897. Pollitt did not share his partner's mystical leanings, and Crowley had this to say about ending their relationship:

I told him frankly that I had given my life to religion and that he did not fit into the scheme. I see now how imbecile I was, how hideously wrong and weak it is to reject any part of one's personality.[17]

He would have made any public expressions of "distaste" at a time when British law officially forbade homosexuality. The arrest, conviction and imprisonment of Oscar Wilde took place in Crowley's first year at Cambridge. In the autobiographical preface to Crowley's drama The World's Tragedy, he included a section on "Sodomy" where he openly admitted his bisexuality and praised sex between men. However, someone removed these two pages from all copies of the book except those Crowley gave to close friends.[18]

Later, in a January 1929 letter, he wrote

There have been about four men in my life that I could say I have loved... Call me a bugger if you like, but I don't feel the same way about women. One can always replace a woman in a few days.[19]

While that claim about women conflicts with other statements and actions of Crowley's,[20] it accurately describes his relationships with Pollitt and various working class women during his college years.[21]

Name change
Crowley described his decision to change his name as follows:

"For many years I had loathed being called Alick, partly because of the unpleasant sound and sight of the word, partly because it was the name by which my mother called me. Edward did not seem to suit me and the diminutives Ted or Ned were even less appropriate. Alexander was too long and Sandy suggested tow hair and freckles. I had read in some book or other that the most favourable name for becoming famous was one consisting of a dactyl followed by a spondee, as at the end of a hexameter: like "Jeremy Taylor". Aleister Crowley fulfilled these conditions and Aleister is the Gaelic form of Alexander. To adopt it would satisfy my romantic ideals. The atrocious spelling A-L-E-I-S-T-E-R was suggested as the correct form by Cousin Gregor, who ought to have known better. In any case, A-L-A-I-S-D-A-I-R makes a very bad dactyl. For these reasons I saddled myself with my present nom-de-guerre—I can't say that I feel sure that I facilitated the process of becoming famous. I should doubtless have done so, whatever name I had chosen."[22]










http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aleister_Crowley




All this took was a search from wikipedia on the internet within seconds. Dont be lazy do some research on the internet before comming here to post a topic from which you can do this on your own. Theres more on the wikipedia but this is enough said.
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#20616 - 02/17/09 02:23 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Linaka113]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
Satanic, yes. Satanist, no.

Overall he was a massive troll, so I wouldn't fuss over it too much.
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#20700 - 02/18/09 07:39 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: The Zebu]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
If you read 'The confessions of Aleister Crowley', you'll find he was only a freemason in America, his mountain climbing abilities were almost child like, his interpretation of 'magic' merely an offshoot of his love for maths and logic, his 'experimental' use of drugs actually consists of serious opium and heroin addictions and his interpretation of sexuality was simply on the the level of marque du sade with some faggotry thrown into the mix; overall Crowley's main contribution to the world was his air fairy symbols and tarot nonsense.

Edited by joseph oreilly (02/18/09 07:44 AM)

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#20747 - 02/18/09 06:37 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: joseph oreilly]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Okay, first off your wrong...

I bel;ieve he still holds some mountain climbing records.

His magick writings were quite a bit beyond that. When you create as much as he did, then you can belittle his accomplishments.

Drug use, well, we all have experimented. Herion was actually a prescribed medicine in the past. It is one of the most affect drugs used to treat asthma.

My sexual practices as well as his are open to personal desires. Sometimes, mine are worse than his. SO WHAT?

I think you need to be banned again just for utter stupidity.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#20767 - 02/19/09 01:20 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yep. People with childlike mountain climbing skills always take on the Pakistani route up K2. Most of them die pretty quickly.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20780 - 02/19/09 08:10 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
PrinceOfBabalon Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 49
Loc: London
Neither, and to be blunt I have no idea where (other than Christian websites) you got the idea that he was either.

Crowley was a Thelemite and conducted his life accordingly. His beliefs (and consequently the lifestyle that emanated from those beliefs) have a rather un-Satanic tendency to venture into Mysticism and Theosophic speculation, for example his Qabalistically informed concept of uniting with the "Holy Guardian Angel" and the idea of an Aeonic procession that is directed by forces other than human Will.

On the other hand his ability to challenge convention, his desire for wo/man to operate at their highest level, thirst for knowledge and power among other curious things are all hallmarks of a Satanic character.

The Zebu sums it up well. He was not a Satanist but was Satanic. At least in many of his characteristics.

As for joseph oreilly: can somebody borrow me a shotgun?
_________________________

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#21140 - 02/25/09 11:30 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
satansydney Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
it dont matter to me what he was, i enjoy reading Aleister Crowley writings .
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#21148 - 02/26/09 03:23 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: PrinceOfBabalon]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
"holy guardian angel"?

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream."

Sorry.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#21161 - 02/26/09 12:28 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: satansydney]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: satansydney
it dont matter to me what he was, i enjoy reading Aleister Crowley writings .

And why do you like them?
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#21164 - 02/26/09 04:19 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
top line could be attributed to crowley.
the bottom line is from Poe...

M
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#21165 - 02/26/09 04:51 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Morgan]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Crowley's use of "Holy Guardian Angel" was a personal reference to himself... his true inner core beliefs, which will also be referenced in some of his writings as his "silent self." This idea is thought to have come to him from a passage in "The Book of the Sacred Magic of Abramelin the Mage. which says, "If thou shalt perfectly observe these rules, all the following Symbols and an infinitude of others will be granted unto thee by the Holy Guardian Angel; thou thus living for the Honour and Glory of the True and only God, for thine own good, and that of thy neighbour. Let thy Fear of God be ever before the eyes and heart of him who shall possess the Divine Wisdom and Sacred Magic."

Good call on the Poe. It comes from "A Dream Within A Dream."
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#21166 - 02/26/09 05:21 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
I used the Poe reference as a lame attempt to express that I didn't believe Crowley was writing "literally" with the holy guardian angel... thing.

I'm certainly aware of "the divine Edgar"s poems... (now where did I get that quote?).

Jake999 just nailed it though... so no need to go any further.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.

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#26037 - 06/23/09 09:43 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
Demogorgon Offline
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Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
I look up to Crowley in a very high manner. Do what thou wilt is one of the very few things that has made an impact on me and my life.
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#26043 - 06/23/09 11:44 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Please explain that statement. How has it impacted your life? What does it mean to you?
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#26086 - 06/23/09 10:27 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
Scarlett156 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
Was AC a satanist? In my opinion, no: He wasn't much of a one for those easy classifications. He was often referred to as a satanist by those who have a need to categorize things, but I don't think he ever thought of himself as one, and I'm sure that his close associates didn't either. (Wasn't it Dr. Regardie who called him a "God-besotted man"...?)

The current "luciferian" movement would have, I'm pretty sure, amazed Crowley in several ways. He would have thoroughly approved of its commercial and sensationalistic aspects, as well as its potential for manipulating and mobilizing large numbers of neebs, but I don't think he would have a lot of respect for its basis of teaching, as it's something a kabalist would consider fairly one-dimensional. (I'm not slagging on Luciferianism, btw--I think it's interesting, and I've met some pretty heavy people who are Luciferians--I'm just trying to consider how AC would have viewed it.)

Not that Crowley was ever terribly upset at being referred to as a satanist, either, though. He was a glutton for attention, good, bad, or indifferent.

~~~ yours in Chaos, Scarlett
_________________________
"I can fling poo gooder than u"

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#26111 - 06/24/09 07:24 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
Demogorgon Offline
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Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Edit: L Ron Hubbard was a student of Aliester Crowley

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Please explain that statement. How has it impacted your life? What does it mean to you?


To me it means exactly what it says "Do what thou wilt", it is a guideline in my life that I do not have to conform to what is going on around me, it lets me step to the side lane and explore what interests me, it allows me to have my own experiences without having someone tell me "No" or "you are doing it wrong". If I never read that quote I wouldn't be the person I am today. To me it means "Do what you want", nothing more, nothing less.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/24/09 07:32 AM)

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#26143 - 06/24/09 05:49 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Are you aware that saying has a "deeper" meaning behind it other than just doing whatever you want? Thelema is about more than that. It is more about achieving your "destiny"(for lack of a better word) than just doing whatever you feel like.

If Crowley had never wrote those words in The Book of the Law, do you still think you would have the testicular fortitude to "do what thou wilt"? For me just being alive allows me to do all those things you spoke of.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

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#26164 - 06/24/09 11:26 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Thank you 6. Their response was exactly what I was fishing for. Far too many people don't know or understand the true meaning behind that statement. It does not give a person carte blanche to act however they want. Or indulge however they want.

It means fulfilling the "will". The "will" being the subconscious. It is difficult to put into simple words for everyone to understand. Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me. Thelema is not a strong suit of mine. For lack of a better explanation, I will refer to the wiki article.

"According to Crowley, every individual has a True Will, to be distinguished from the ordinary wants and desires of the ego. The True Will is essentially one's "calling" or "purpose" in life. Some later magicians have taken this to include the goal of attaining self-realization by one's own efforts, without the aid of God or other divine authority. This brings them close to the position that Crowley held just prior to 1904.[53] Others follow later works such as Liber II, saying that one's own will in pure form is nothing other than the divine will.[54] Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law for Crowley refers not to hedonism, fulfilling everyday desires, but to acting in response to that calling. The Thelemite is a mystic.[53] According to Lon Milo Duquette, a Thelemite is anyone who bases their actions on striving to discover and accomplish their true will,[55] when a person does their True Will, it is like an orbit, their niche in the universal order, and the universe assists them.[56] In order for the individual to be able to follow their True Will, the everyday self's socially-instilled inhibitions may have to be overcome via deconditioning.[57][58] Crowley believed that in order to discover the True Will, one had to free the desires of the subconscious mind from the control of the conscious mind, especially the restrictions placed on sexual expression, which he associated with the power of divine creation.[59] He identified the True Will of each individual with the Holy Guardian Angel, a daimon unique to each individual.[60] The spiritual quest to find what you are meant to do and do it is also known in Thelema as the Great Work.[61]"
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#26245 - 06/25/09 04:45 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
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Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
"Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me"

I am working on a rationalization/exploration of the concept and journey atm - I am currently focusing on the art of meditation as a means of conversation with the HGA.

I still have to answer a friend who once asked me to explain the concept of all is one;)

The two concepts are one and the same, to a point.

Magnum Opus

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#26292 - 06/26/09 07:04 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
Are you aware that saying has a "deeper" meaning behind it other than just doing whatever you want? Thelema is about more than that. It is more about achieving your "destiny"(for lack of a better word) than just doing whatever you feel like.

If Crowley had never wrote those words in The Book of the Law, do you still think you would have the testicular fortitude to "do what thou wilt"? For me just being alive allows me to do all those things you spoke of.


I can guarantee you that we come from very two different walks of life.

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Thank you 6. Their response was exactly what I was fishing for. Far too many people don't know or understand the true meaning behind that statement. It does not give a person carte blanche to act however they want. Or indulge however they want.

It means fulfilling the "will". The "will" being the subconscious. It is difficult to put into simple words for everyone to understand. Perhaps Mercury Templar could better explain it than me. Thelema is not a strong suit of mine. For lack of a better explanation, I will refer to the wiki article.

"According to Crowley, every individual has a True Will, to be distinguished from the ordinary wants and desires of the ego. The True Will is essentially one's "calling" or "purpose" in life. Some later magicians have taken this to include the goal of attaining self-realization by one's own efforts, without the aid of God or other divine authority. This brings them close to the position that Crowley held just prior to 1904.[53] Others follow later works such as Liber II, saying that one's own will in pure form is nothing other than the divine will.[54] Do what thou Wilt shall be the whole of the Law for Crowley refers not to hedonism, fulfilling everyday desires, but to acting in response to that calling. The Thelemite is a mystic.[53] According to Lon Milo Duquette, a Thelemite is anyone who bases their actions on striving to discover and accomplish their true will,[55] when a person does their True Will, it is like an orbit, their niche in the universal order, and the universe assists them.[56] In order for the individual to be able to follow their True Will, the everyday self's socially-instilled inhibitions may have to be overcome via deconditioning.[57][58] Crowley believed that in order to discover the True Will, one had to free the desires of the subconscious mind from the control of the conscious mind, especially the restrictions placed on sexual expression, which he associated with the power of divine creation.[59] He identified the True Will of each individual with the Holy Guardian Angel, a daimon unique to each individual.[60] The spiritual quest to find what you are meant to do and do it is also known in Thelema as the Great Work.[61]"



I don't follow Thelema, "do what thou wilt" has a meaning to me, it was something that I read that clicked inside of me, it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right, you asked what it meant to me.

If you want to go fishing, use the right line.

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#26313 - 06/26/09 06:07 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
Mercury_Templar Offline
93 93/93
member


Registered: 09/16/07
Posts: 262
Loc: Cabarita, Vic, Australia
"it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right"

No, fake doesn't think you have the wrong answer, he knows you do. And your opinion does not make you right. If this premise were so, then all the students I have marked wrong over the years could have argued the fact. There is no right or wrong considering interpretation, but there is when comprehension is the matter at hand.

Comprehension (and eventually Wisdom) can only be developed when the reliance on self-centred paradigms is destroyed.

M.'.T.'.
_________________________
ATEH
MALKUTH
VE-GEBURAH
VE-GEDULAH
LE-OLAM
AMEN

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#26318 - 06/26/09 07:38 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Mercury_Templar]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: Mercury_Templar
"it doesn't bother me if you think I have the wrong answer because to me it is right"

No, fake doesn't think you have the wrong answer, he knows you do. And your opinion does not make you right. If this premise were so, then all the students I have marked wrong over the years could have argued the fact. There is no right or wrong considering interpretation, but there is when comprehension is the matter at hand.

Comprehension (and eventually Wisdom) can only be developed when the reliance on self-centred paradigms is destroyed.

M.'.T.'.


If he wanted the right answer to what coincides with his studies, why didn't he ask what it means? By adding "to you" at the end he has generally asked how I interperate what "Do what thou wilt" means, what it means to me, not what it should mean to everyone, not what Crowley intended it to mean, not what people study for to find out. So really, since he made it a personal question by asking what it means to me, I gave him the right answer, because I told him what it means to me. I answered his question, he just worded it wrong.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/26/09 07:40 PM)

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#26324 - 06/26/09 09:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The reason he asked what it means to you was to point out how so many people misinterpret what was meant by it. It doesn't matter what you THINK it means. You can't just take any phrase you want, change the meaning and have it be true.
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No gods. No masters.

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#26327 - 06/26/09 10:19 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
No, I worded it exactly the way I wanted to on purpose. So you could stumble around it and fumble the football. It doesn't matter what it "means to me". What matters is the real meaning behind the statement. Too many Satanists(term used loosely) think that they can just take a bit of this and a bit of that and interpret what they want to suit their path and call it Satanism.

I like this, but I don't like that. Sorry, that isn't how it works.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#26336 - 06/27/09 05:08 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Demogorgon Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/16/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
The reason he asked what it means to you was to point out how so many people misinterpret what was meant by it. It doesn't matter what you THINK it means. You can't just take any phrase you want, change the meaning and have it be true.


Don't you have to study something to understand it, to know what it means? I don't study Thelema and I do not study Aleister Crowley's writings, I took that one line, applied it to myself and it helped me.. Big deal?

 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
No, I worded it exactly the way I wanted to on purpose. So you could stumble around it and fumble the football. It doesn't matter what it "means to me". What matters is the real meaning behind the statement. Too many Satanists(term used loosely) think that they can just take a bit of this and a bit of that and interpret what they want to suit their path and call it Satanism.

I like this, but I don't like that. Sorry, that isn't how it works.


Are you saying you are not a Satanist if you do not follow Aleister Crowleys writings? I do not follow his writings, something he wrote and said that I came across meant something to me, I didn't buy his books, I won't buy his books, so I'm sorry if I didn't satisfy you by answering your question correctly, but you did word it wrong, and you got the right answer from me, because you asked what it meant to me, if you didn't want what it meant to me you shouldn't have asked the way you did.

Next time, ask "What does that statement mean?", so you will be putting someone on the spot to answer directly what the statement means in general, not what it means to them personally, better yet, maybe you should ask if they follow Crowleys teachings and Thelema also and that way when you put your elitist attitude hat on you will have a just reason to decide if they are a Satanist or not.

For the record, "Do what thou wilt" wasn't what got me into Satanism.


Edited by Demogorgon (06/27/09 05:09 AM)

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#26348 - 06/27/09 02:04 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Demogorgon]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
This is going to go nowhwere.

 Quote:
Don't you have to study something to understand it, to know what it means? I don't study Thelema and I do not study Aleister Crowley's writings, I took that one line, applied it to myself and it helped me.. Big deal?


Right. So because I like the color green, I will declare myself a fan of the Green Bay Packers and proudly run around wearing their jerseys and plaster my car with their team stickers. After all, I don't have to know shit about them or their history, or even live nearby. I like green, therefore I am a Green Bay Packer fan.

If something is so profound and means so much to a person, I would expect that person to at least explore it a bit. Get a little history behind it, learn the thoughts that went into the statement, instead of just snatching it and moving on.
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#26512 - 07/01/09 06:05 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Aleister Crowley was a Thelemite wasnt he?
He did found that religion so one might assume he was a follower of it.

I think that Crowley held many of the base principles of Satanism (of which ours is based somewhat on crowley's ideas) and then had the same spirituality and occult relation as is with Luciferianism.

I think Crowley is just a master occultist philosopher, and founder of thelema. I dont think himself, he is coined as a satanist or luciferian

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#26544 - 07/01/09 09:56 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
satansydney Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
[quote=
I think Crowley is just a master occultist philosopher, and founder of thelema. I dont think himself, he is coined as a satanist or luciferian [/quote]

i agree with that.

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#27452 - 07/24/09 02:34 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: satansydney]
bluj666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Tennessee,USA
Id have to say in the terms of the meaning of Satanism, He was satanic. He went against Christian and mans laws to suite his own personal agenda, and to those that feared him he was an adversary to what they held to be moral and pure.
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#31683 - 11/14/09 04:00 AM Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: Jake999]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
93 Jake999,
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Crowley's use of "Holy Guardian Angel" {HGA} was a personal reference to himself....
Crowley called his HGA 'Aiwass', and at times wrote of it as being identical or the equivalent to Lucifer. Crowley performed rituals in which he invoked Satan, and one at least in which he crucified a frog after baptizing it with the name of Jesus. while he attributed the source of his nickname 'The Beast' to his mother, he was clearly making extensive reference to the imaginative and controversial "Book of Revelation" (of John of Patmos) in his personal ritualizing and writings. he constructed a mythology which reflected off of this, and expressed, by association to anti-Christian terminology, what he otherwise stated rather plainly about his great dislike for Christians and their religion, of which he had once been part.

I usually refer to Crowley as a "de facto Satanist" after LaVey's usage, and in evaluative accord with friends of mine between Thelema and Satanism such as the late VH Maroney, whose logic was sound and insight coherent. I've discussed this also with HP Aquino and my Brother Bill Heidrick. most arrived at the same conclusion: that Crowley did not overtly identify with the Devil in some consistent and religio-spiritual manner, but he did associate with Satan, and engage ritual and anti-Christian behaviour upon occasion in ways that are easily comparable to Luciferians and Satanists.

Crowley was dubbed 'the wickedest man in the world' by the press. in his commentaries to Liber Al vel Legis he made it plain that "Do what thou wilt" might mean ANYTHING, save the interpreter be illuminated.

93 93/93
6..6..6. I am I
.3..3..3 nigris


Edited by nocTifer (11/14/09 04:01 AM)
_________________________
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#31688 - 11/14/09 12:27 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You are an idiot.

I don't care who's name you drop because if those people were your friends you would have no need to mention them at all. You are far from impressing anyone here.

"he made it plain that "Do what thou wilt" might mean ANYTHING, save the interpreter be illuminated."

Did you read the book? The whole book? Did you really understand it? If you did, you would not have made such a stupid statement.

You are officially a unreadable joke to me now. I pity anyone who follows anything you say or do.

Have a interesting life....

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#31699 - 11/14/09 04:27 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: Morgan]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
hi Morgan,
 Quote:
Did you read the book? The whole book? Did you really understand it?
I am presuming here that you mean Liber Al vel Legis, aka The Book of the Law, in its various numbers. yes, i have read it through many times, been involved in a number of attempts with others to understand it, been in a fair number of rituals featuring it prominently, and have occasionally made a celebratory habit of burning it during Thelemic holy days in April. I've even created an edited version of it, trying to remove the intrusions of the Scribe which i have dubbed "Librette Al, the Booklet of the Law" (there are taboos against discussing the scripture lest one 'become a Centre of Pestilence' or editing or changing 'so much as the style of the letter' in the Thelemic subculture which i find amusing).

I don't think that i understood it all, no. I get the impression that a good portion of it proceeds from the bowels of Crowley's mind, complete with his egyptomaniacal and prophet-centred motivations. the fact that there is a heavy emphasis on that book within the Thelemic subculture (esp. the Crowleyan portions) and yet there is so little attention paid to his commentaries strikes me as peculiar, to say the least (see my note at the end of this post for more on that point).
 Quote:
If you did, you would not have made such a stupid statement.
that is possible, i suppose. I admit that i don't regularly read that brief text, or consider it my scripture, especially since i penned my own. of course, i am almost repeating verbatim words that 'the Master' himself penned within those commentaries as to the significance of 'DWTW'.{*} I agree of course that we cannot expect that very many will achieve that illumination, and wonder if you would care to explain how you think that it relates to your Satanism, how and why it qualifies, or disqualifies, Crowley as a Satanist, etc.

thank you for your patience with me. I can at times be trying. \:\)

note -- see Liber Practicus: the Sin of Practice, by Fr. (I) Nigris (666) 333 and in particular the text which reads "All meanings are true, if only the interpreter be illuminated; but if not, they are all false, even as he is false....". it is a mark of atrocious irresponsibility and cultism that when i search on 'if only the interpreter be illuminated' at Google.com i find precisely *8* hits total. this means, apparently, that nobody online is quoting the Master in defense of this liberationist vision of Thelemic instruction. what a sad state of affairs that is. I shall be the lone voice of liberation for Thelema, it appears.
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#31710 - 11/14/09 11:26 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Oh how nice, you wrote a book.
So did I, so did Aquino, and so did some other members of this board.
Big Fucking Deal.

Of course there is emphasis on the book within Thelema, how could there not be.

Crowley also wrote about killing thousands of children, he was talking about sperm being wasted when he jacked off. Metaphors, examples, not everything is literal.

How Thelema relates to my views on Satanism. I take what I feel is relevant to my life and use it. Crowley wrote a lot of stuff, I am not going to sit here and teach you how I view the various libers in regards to my personal experiences. How I view the HGA, and my point of view is not something I need to discuss with you because you will not understand anyway. There is enough of this previously discussed on this board.

As for Crowley being a Satanist or not, who gives a shit. The man is dead, and as much as I can see parallels between Crowley and LaVey life, it doesn't matter. There are only two people whom I care if they are Satanists or not, Myself and whomever I am Fucking.

You still do not get basic jist of it. Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of Law. Love is the law, love under will. Is in part about responsibility. If everyone is a shining star then you have to understand how the things you do affect others and to be true to your own will without lust of results will allow you to see many different outcomes depending on which course of action you ponder to take.

Thelema does not need you as a voice or a liberator. It is already free, and held dear by many various groups. Words can not carry the truth for the truth is in silence, it can not be properly conveyed through words.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#31715 - 11/15/09 03:50 AM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Quote:
note -- see Liber Practicus: the Sin of Practice, by Fr. (I) Nigris (666) 333 and in particular the text which reads "All meanings are true, if only the interpreter be illuminated; but if not, they are all false, even as he is false....". it is a mark of atrocious irresponsibility and cultism that when i search on 'if only the interpreter be illuminated' at Google.com i find precisely *8* hits total. this means, apparently, that nobody online is quoting the Master in defense of this liberationist vision of Thelemic instruction. what a sad state of affairs that is. I shall be the lone voice of liberation for Thelema, it appears.

You searched something about Crowley on google, didn't find that much results and automatically make unbiased conclusion after ONLY focusing on 1 (not 100% accurate) source?

Did anyone told you that if you get out of the basement and go outside (or even look trough a window) that there is a whole REAL world wich is an almost endless source of information, knowledge, conspiracies, organisations,...

 Quote:
"All meanings are true, if only the interpreter be illuminated; but if not, they are all false, even as he is false....".

Maybe you should THINK about it more thoroughly...
And that was a dead give-away.
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#31729 - 11/15/09 03:08 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: Dimitri]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
hi Dimitri,
it wasn't just 'something about Crowley'. it was a quoted character string specifically from his commentary on his scripture (Liber Al) pertaining to DWTW "Do what thou wilt"). what this means is that there were only 8 locations on the whole WWW accessible via the most popular and powerful search engine, and finding this fragment implies the availability of the whole text by Crowley, or that someone is quoting it as part of their exposition on DWTW. 2-3 of those hits were my own text! a sad state of affairs.
_________________________
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#32375 - 11/29/09 02:40 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Morgan]
asmodeus_frost Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 4
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
Drug use, well, we all have experimented.


I haven't. I personally am not a fan of assumptions such as these either. I find most drugs / substance to be for weak minded individuals. I enjoy a beer here & there, as well as a glass of wine too. Moderation is key, though in some cases (if not most) even in moderation they can be extremely damaging & detrimental. Beer & Wine, in moderation is actually good for the heart, the bloodstream & the kidneys. Heroin, crack, coke & even pot...zero health benefits, coupled with a lot of negative side effects.

My two cents.

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#32376 - 11/29/09 03:12 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: asmodeus_frost]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Thank you for sharing this wisdom gained from your absence of experience. This didn't come off as presumptuous, preachy, or pretentious in any way shape or form. You obviously know what's best for everyone, so please continue to tell us.

That is all.
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#32378 - 11/29/09 03:42 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: asmodeus_frost]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Im going to have to agree with Dan on this one. Not only did your post come off as arrogant and patronining but it also added nothing of value to this thread. I will grant you that this thread really wasn't going anywhere but at least it had a central topic. Please try to stick with the point of the thread. If you wish to talk down to people who use recreational substances; make a new thread.
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#32403 - 11/29/09 11:04 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: asmodeus_frost]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Alcohol isn't a drug? Hmmm? It was outlawed for a brief period. I seem to remember when I was taking alcohol control classes they mentioned that if it were to be regulated, it would be classed in the same category as opiates and regulated much like morphine and codeine.

So in essence, yes you have experimented, and it appears from your own words, that you have done it more than once.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#32414 - 11/30/09 09:40 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: fakepropht]
asmodeus_frost Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/24/09
Posts: 4
My intent wasn't for my reply to come off as; presumptuous, preachy, or pretentious...whatsoever. However, after re-reading it, I can see where some might take it this way. Let me say this, to each their own. What works for me doesn't necessarily work for others & vice-versa. I still stand by my point(s) because they are how I feel & I will not apologize about my view(s)/take(s) on things, but I will apologize on my approach in how it was delivered.
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#43148 - 09/22/10 01:41 AM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer
hi Dimitri,
it wasn't just 'something about Crowley'. it was a quoted character string specifically from his commentary on his scripture (Liber Al) pertaining to DWTW "Do what thou wilt"). what this means is that there were only 8 locations on the whole WWW accessible via the most popular and powerful search engine, and finding this fragment implies the availability of the whole text by Crowley, or that someone is quoting it as part of their exposition on DWTW. 2-3 of those hits were my own text! a sad state of affairs.

I later discovered that this string is corrupted in a good number of the few versions of the Commentaries that may be found online. since none of them seemed to capture the larger picture of the whole, i set about constructing a Complete and Authoritative Commentaries web page referencing a number of sources available that i have collected (mostly hard-copy), and am now in the middle of completing its notations. I'd be interested in response to it. I don't know if anyone's used this format before me (usually editors place the entirety of the holograph before or after some version of the text, nobody bothers to reproduce incidentals or incorporate successive editors' contributions).


Edited by nocTifer (09/22/10 01:43 AM)
_________________________
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#43161 - 09/22/10 03:56 PM Re: Aleister Crowley -- de Facto Satanist [Re: nocTifer]
Autodidact Offline
member


Registered: 01/23/10
Posts: 428
 Originally Posted By: nocTifer
since none of them seemed to capture the larger picture of the whole, i set about constructing a Complete and Authoritative Commentaries web page referencing a number of sources available that i have collected (mostly hard-copy), and am now in the middle of completing its notations. I'd be interested in response to it. I don't know if anyone's used this format before me (usually editors place the entirety of the holograph before or after some version of the text, nobody bothers to reproduce incidentals or incorporate successive editors' contributions).


This is nice - for those studying the commentaries, this should be very helpful.

As for Crowley himself, and Thelema in general, well, I find him/it verbose and confusing. Einstein said (and I believe), "You do not really understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother," and I cannot for the life of me find a clear, detailed, objective review of Thelemic philosophy.

I can find plenty of long-winded, pseudo-metaphorical pieces, though. And the saturation of gematria throughout just seems ... well, overly emphatic. The human brain can find patterns in anything; that doesn't mean they're meaningful patterns.

There are some gems in his stuff, but for a guy whose basic principle is applying the scientific method to religion and spirituality, the resulting literature sure is haphazard.
_________________________
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#48805 - 02/13/11 10:55 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i think he was a satanist on a much deeper level
it's been kind of a while since i read Crowley (not very much into the occult/Satanism at this point) but i remember reading certain parts of thelema like "the dogs of reason". he's basically telling you to do what the fuck you want to do and let others draw their own conclusions (alpha male 101)

i think he was a satanists but he just wasn't so out and about with his beliefs...and rightly so. why would he want to create more wolves out there?

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#48813 - 02/13/11 11:53 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: lightlight]
myk5 Offline
member


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 137
I agree that real comprehension of any idea allows expression of that idea simply. Though there are exception for concepts that are only relevant in light of many other concepts many people may be unaware of.

Really the fact that Crowley structured his order around attainment of conversation with the HGA (Holy guardian Angel!) and would banish any who didn't fall in line (Austen Osman Spare!) ...and his doctrine of an almost sacred almost predestined 'true will' beyond your casual desire, it leads me to believe Crowley was at his core close to being a Christian, despite the fact his attitudes could be interpreted as sympathetic with Anton LaVey's Satanic philosophy.

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#49000 - 02/16/11 10:11 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: myk5]
lightlight Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/13/11
Posts: 11
i don't know how Crowley was interpreted by anyone else. i do know that he liked to call himself anti-christian things. i do know that he considered black magic something that wasn't exactly what you wanted/not consciously done/etc as opposed to something morally bad. and i do know certain things he's said in what he's written ('at first the magus uses truth to send forth illusion..but therin lies his redempton')

when it comes to you considering him christian you should realize that the bible and christain morality are pletely based around the bias of god. it's possible that he wanted to make himself a god in a way and he wanted the holy gaurdian spirit to be something very thelematic...basicallty, that he wanted to shift your view so sthat it wa based around the bias of thelema...do you get what i'm saying?

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#49410 - 02/22/11 09:30 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
heretic Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 13
Don't belittle the lovely "Beast of the East". He had many ideas. He was doing the best he could in an unenlightened era. Not many are brave enough to do that much.


heretic

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#61591 - 11/19/11 02:23 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Lets take a look at Aleister Crowley's spiritual history.
He was raised in a way that he later rejected- in fact he was a very prominent Mason. In the year 1900, he was given the mystery degree of 33rd Degree in the Masonic Temple. However, he ended up leaving the Masonic Temple in what proved to be a fantastic effort to become a prominent Black Magician. His crossover is THE reason for so much confusion and controversy behind rather he was Right or Left Handed.
Many might not realize this, but he coined the term Left Handed versus Right Handed. This creation alone shows his Hand of choice if you break down the psychology of a former Mason and the way he uses the term Left Handed in his literature.
From a historian point of view, no White Magician in the early 1900's would have given recognition or credit to the wonders of Black Magic, as Crowley did in his literature repeatedly.
Here I will quote Crowley literature:
-Book IV
-Part Three: Magick in Theory and Practice
-Chapter V: The Formula of I.A.O.
-Aeon of Horus

"O The exatled "Devil" (also the other secret Eye) by the formula of the Initiation of Horus elswhere described in this detail. The "Devil" is called Satan or Shaitan, and regarded with horror by people who are ignorant of his formula, and, imagining themselves to be evil, accuse Nature herself of their own phantasmal crime. Satan is Saturn, Set, Abrasax, Adad, Adonis, Attis, Adam, Adonai, etc."

Clearly we see a innocent view of a Black Magician who was polytheistic.

-Book IV
-Appendix IV
-Liber Samekh
-Section C. Fire

"I invoke Thee, the Terrible and Invisible God: Who dwellest in the Void Place of the Spirit:-
AR-O-GO-GO-RU-ABRAO 'Thou spiritual Sun! Satan, Thou Eye, Thou Lust! Cry Aloud! Whirl the Wheel, O my Father, O Satan, O Sun!'"

I encourage you all to examine his literature with a lens I derived as I am genetically a Crowley (great grandson)- in the sense that his literature has the tendency of a mindtrick. Crowley intended for humans to read his literature and learn to trust their intuition that already understood how to place deities within their hearts and minds- as if to say we are born a Satanist. Does that mean we all profess to be a Satanist? Certainly we have all seen examples where even Satan himself would say that its better to keep your identity concealed- at least to a certain extent. This is true Crowley tended to anti-confuse us or use reverse psychology in our own special Crowley manner. Hmmmm, interesting shit mate! Bloody fascinating!

In closing, to answer the question on the thread, Aleister Crowley was a Luciferican UNTIL he left the Masonic Temple and shortly thereafter founded the Thelema, as the 33rd Degree of the Masonic Temple's rites and oaths state that "Lucifer is God"- and they view Lucifer in a white light perspective. However, take note that he founded the Thelema as a Left Handed Black Magick society and the O.T.O. was thereafter no longer a Masonic organization thereby. The O.T.O. website has even stated "we are no longer a Masonic organization", entailing that yes for a time they were. Satan bless Aleister Crowely for tilting the worlds axis just a touch Left, to say the least to play the Beast!
_________________________
"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61592 - 11/19/11 03:21 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: LeftHandonFeet
I encourage you all to examine his literature with a lens I derived as I am genetically a Crowley (great grandson)- in the sense that his literature has the tendency of a mindtrick.


Care to elaborate how you relate to Crowley?

D.

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#61594 - 11/19/11 04:32 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Yes, as mentioned in the post, I am his great grandson. My fathers father was Aleister Crowleys son. I suppose I could show you a pic of my father and grandfather standing together, as well as a photo of my grandfather at a young age with Aleister Crowley who was his father, but I am new to 600 Club and do not see a way to post pics on individual posts.

Just so happens my grandfather went astray from the Beasts wishes for his life, and my father turned out alot different than you might anticipate a DNA Crowley to turn out. I count myself blessed to have walked the Path that my great grandfather foresaw me taking, that is to say one that does not oppose Satan. He was an amazingly clairvoyant man- he even sealed off handwritten letters for me to read on certain days to confirm I was on the right path- very detailed letters at that!

To restate the answer to your question, Aleister Crowley had a son who bore my father- so I am his great grandson.
_________________________
"I’m just another hardline psuedo-statistic
Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61595 - 11/19/11 04:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's not that I don't want to believe you but as far as I know, the only son Crowley had was Aleister Attaturk or Charles Edward d'Arquires and he lived in the UK.

So what son would your grandfather be?

D.

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#61596 - 11/19/11 04:55 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Well I certainly see your point, but keep in mind famous occultist- or any celebrity of sorts for that matter- dont always care to reveal their entire family tree to the world. This explains how I was raised in San Francisco as some of his family ended up there when he moved there. I suppose I would elaborate but come to think of it, how am I to prove this through the means of the 600 Club? I personally dont care to reveal my fathers name for several valid reasons so I will leave it at that- or my grandfather for that matter. Should you care to disregard my post on "Crowley: Satanist or Luciferian?" due to not knowing 100% that I am related to Aleister Crowley then that is entirely your choice- I only thought to share my insight on his spirituality from an insiders perspective, if you shall. By the way, its recorded in his literature that he was given the 33rd Degree as a Freemason, so its not just a family secret.
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Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61597 - 11/19/11 05:04 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The issue is I've seen quite a lot of offspring of the "famous" and this far, none of them was true so you can understand I'm quite skeptical when seeing another not?

It is known Crowley did not bother too much about birth control and had quite some children but most of them are known. And it appears there is only one son and he died in the UK in 2002.

So you know, this triggered my curiosity, as I've encountered an email of you before on SIN upon that subject. So I googled a bit, stalker is appropriate I know, and you know David, nothing indicates you are related. Your last name doesn't show much lineage.

Of course, there might be things not known to me but your avoidance doesn't really make it credible.

D.

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#61598 - 11/19/11 05:24 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Diavolo]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
Honestly I don't care to prove my ancestry through and through on a public post for one reason and one reason alone- some people might read my family members names that I dont care to read them. This of course could lead to them locating me in a way that I'm not comfortable with. Obviously I'm comfortable sharing my beliefs on the web as you see I'm on the 600 Club- but I will leave you with this piece of information- my last name comes from my grandfather having taken another name other than Crowley- thats the reason you wont see my family tree headed back to the Beast. And yes this is true, there are things not known to you- I would say theres a good reason for that. It doesnt bother me if someone doesnt believe Im related to Aleister Crowley. I enjoy it for myself quite thoroughly.
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#61599 - 11/19/11 05:31 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's simple, if you don't care to prove your ancestry or don't care if people believe you or not; do not mention it.

First, anyone can claim to be anything. Second, what's the use even if it would be true?

I don't believe you and that's it.

So either you back it up, our you quit mentioning it because here, any claim requires sufficient backup or argumentation.

D.

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#61600 - 11/19/11 05:32 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
As far as an email of SIN goes, Im not sure what thats about but I have had very little interaction with SIN. Not to say anything about SIN or give a personal stance on SIN, but Im factually stating that I did not go into my ancestry in detail with SIN.
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Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61601 - 11/19/11 05:37 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
 Originally Posted By: SIN post
...Crowley is my Great Grandfather so I take personal pride in the pronunciation of his/my last name ...


D.

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#61613 - 11/19/11 11:20 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
It's rather poor taste to make such claims with no intention to substantiate them.

But if I had a quarter for every time I ran into someone claiming to be a long-lost descendant of Crowley.... I'd have $1.75.


Edited by The Zebu (11/19/11 11:20 PM)
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#61615 - 11/20/11 12:01 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
I'm confused. How would the super secret serial grandson of Crowley know what was what when it comes to Crowley? Being unknown or illegitimate implies not really knowing Crowley, so another non authority on the subject matter, trying to show expertise.

Anyway, Crowley was a Thelemite, not a Satanist or a Luciferian. \:\)
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#61630 - 11/20/11 05:23 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
member


Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
FS- you missed the point of my initial post all together- many ask rather Crowley was Right or Left Handed due to the fact that he was formerly a Mason. Notice I used Crowley literature and not speculation to show evidence of his transition? On the topic of "expert", I cant help but wonder who called you an expert but Im not so sure they are experts themselves. Nice try though!
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Can you feel this?" Slipknot - The Blister Exists


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#61637 - 11/20/11 10:30 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
 Quote:
many ask rather Crowley was Right or Left Handed due to the fact that he was formerly a Mason.


I don't think his Masonic involvement (which in turn is disputed) would be relevant to this question, since Masonic mysticism varies radically among different rites and lodges.

As for the orientation of Thelema, Crowley's ideas clearly have elements of the LHP, such as sex magic, self-deification rites, taboo-breaking, etc. (Of course, Crowley had a flawed definition of the "left hand", owing mostly to Blavatsky.) Conversely, there are also RHP influences, such as dualism and contemplative meditations.

Whether Crowley himself had achieved spiritual mastery through such radical practices is another question altogether. (I personally think that his relationship failures, drug addiction, legal squabbles, and magus-complex suggest the negative, but having not known the man, I cannot speak with ultimate authority on the matter.


Edited by The Zebu (11/20/11 10:30 PM)
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#61660 - 11/22/11 10:41 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 556
Loc: The Dirty South
Do they have sarcasm where you come from Left? You came in this thread and when questioned cited lineage. Then when questioned on it, went super vague. Your lineage is nothing, it doesn't show your knowledge on this subject.

I still don't see what Crowley being a Mason (which is disputed and he frequently mocks Masonry in his writings) has to do with him being LHP or RHP.

As for my stating that Crowley was a Thelemite, he was. \:\) Thelma rides the line between LHP and RHP, so I feel Crowley did to.
FS3.0
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#61662 - 11/22/11 12:44 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
LeftHandonFeet Offline
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Registered: 11/05/11
Posts: 109
This is very true that the Beast mocked Freemasonry in his writings- but anyone deep enough in the Masonic Temple to have acheived the 33rd Degree will inevitably have lots of white magic influence in their selves. This includes their way of thinking, their speech, their writings and all their habits. As you said, the Thelema does seem to have a bit of a grey area in some of their tendencies- this of course comes from the Beasts influences pre-1903. As he grew older, it was very unusually obvious he was a pure Left Handed magician- he was even called the Worlds Wickedest Man. No Mason would want to be called wicked, thats for sure- Crowley enjoyed the title quite thorougly. : )
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#61698 - 11/23/11 10:19 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: LeftHandonFeet]
Vlad Offline
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Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 21
Loc: Virginia
The Masonic Lodges Crowley belonged to were not orthodox Lodges. He never once belonged to a Lodge that was accepted by the Grand Lodge of England and as such, to any true Freemason, Crowley is not considered a Mason. The Masonry practiced in the Lodges attended by Crowley are by no means related to actual Freemasonry or the Scottish Rite. Crowley petitioned the Grand Lodge of England to have the right to join and attend any Lodge based on his prior experiences, however, no response was given due to the irregularity of his Lodges.

Crowley's 33rd degree was nominally given to him by various radical, breakaway lodges. To call him a Mason or Masonically oriented is doing a great disservice to the occult philosophies the man put forth as well as to the body of Freemasonry as a whole. The whole notion of a 33rd degree is foolish as well. There is no degree higher than Master Mason, which is the degree held by ALL Masons. The other degrees do not denote hierarchy but involvement with the Scottish Rite (of which Crowley could not have been a part of due to his involvement in irregular Lodges). The Scottish Rite is simply a means of better understanding the ideals and philosophies of Freemasonry, nothing more. The degrees do not have to go in order, nor do they have to come one at a time. The 33rd degree is not even part of the Rite, but rather an honorary title bestowed upon Masons who have, through positions in higher areas of society, showcased Masonic principles and helped the world at large. Only a very small number of people hold this title, as so few people are in a position to exemplify it.

A little better understanding of Freemasonry is in order before we can start making comments on the organization as a whole or someone's involvement with it.

Now, Crowley was neither Satanic in the sense used by most here nor was he particularly Luciferian. He was simply a Western occultist whose ideas were rooted in the various initiatory and ritualized Hermetic organizations of the time. His Thelema was a libertine religion with influences from a wide range of occult practices including the Kabbalah, the Tarot, alchemy and ritual magick.

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#80910 - 10/06/13 07:19 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: The Zebu]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
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"Satanic, yes. Satanist, no." I'd call that a tribute of the highest order ;\)

You are aware that we have a rule against one line posts? I'm getting tired of cleaning up after you. Fix it, please.


Edited by Fnord (10/17/13 01:12 PM)
Edit Reason: Information/Warning
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#81225 - 10/17/13 03:12 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Maikl Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/04/13
Posts: 36
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Anyway, Crowley was a Thelemite, not a Satanist or a Luciferian. \:\)


Beat me to it, lol.

He was occultic, sure. He dabbled in areas and discussed spirituality or philosophy relevant to both Luciferians and Satanists. But it does take a claim or intentional devotion which I could deem him, satanist, luciferian etc
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#91806 - 08/15/14 10:52 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Maikl]
luz Offline
member


Registered: 08/06/14
Posts: 136
This is somewhat of a meaningless post, but I'll make it anyway to bump up the thread. If Crowley revealed magick secrets than these are for the use of anyone including Satanists. It does little matter whether he himself was one.
I also have a personal reason for being interested. He is my husband's favorite author \:D And also I printed 20 pages of Magic Without Tears and am looking for the peace to sit and read them.
So exciting to be on this forum and to have the opportunity to share my experiences and perceptions on my way.

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#114471 - 09/24/17 07:01 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Jake999]
Obitus Offline
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Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 27
In reply to Jake999's claim Crowley viewed his "Holy Guardian Angel" as merely a reference to his own self:

A far younger, far more naive and inexperienced Crowley was content to flirt with the idea that spirits and gods are nothing but parts of the mind. But, experience tends to cure one of false notions. And in Crowley's case, this certainly happened as he grew in knowledge and experience. Crowley's dealings with Aiwaz-Satan, his "Holy Guardian Angel," over the course of many years from 1904 onwards, made him convinced of the external reality of his HGA. This is probably the Crowley quote that bothers alot of his fans more than even his admissions that Aiwaz is THE DEVIL:

“The Holy Guardian Angel is not the 'Higher Self' but an Objective Individual. . . . He is not, let me say with emphasis, a mere abstraction from yourself; and that is why I have insisted rather heavily that the term ‘Higher Self’ implies ‘a damnable heresy and a dangerous delusion.’ . . . He is not to be found by any exploration of oneself. It is true that the process of analysis leads finally to the realization of oneself as no more than a point of view indistinguishable in itself from any other point of view; but the Holy Guardian Angel is in precisely the same position. However close may be the identities in millions of ways, no complete identification is ever obtainable. But do remember this, above all else; they are objective, not subjective, or I should not waste good Magick on them.”

Taken from "Magick Without Tears," Crowley's final work, this statement represents Crowley's final position on the matter. A position informed by decades of living with the spirits, and not an opinion formed while he was still wet behind the ears and experimenting with the Golden Dawn system. While I'm aware most love early, "seeker" Crowley, it's more than worthwhile to see where all that seeking eventually took him. And where it took him was a rejection of mere symbolism.


Edited by Obitus (09/24/17 07:03 AM)

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#114475 - 09/24/17 01:26 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Obitus]
Phoenician Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 55
Loc: CA
 Quote:
A far younger, far more naive and inexperienced Crowley was content to flirt with the idea that spirits and gods are nothing but parts of the mind. But, experience tends to cure one of false notions. And in Crowley's case, this certainly happened as he grew in knowledge and experience.


Sigh. Then the young Crowley was right and his "knowledge" was a mindfuck. Leave it to societal archetypes and the imprinting of superstition to turn a projection of ones own unconcious into "spirits and god".

 Quote:
Crowley's dealings with Aiwaz-Satan, his "Holy Guardian Angel," over the course of many years from 1904 onwards, made him convinced of the external reality of his HGA. This is probably the Crowley quote that bothers alot of his fans more than even his admissions that Aiwaz is THE DEVIL:


See above response.

This bullshit needs to walk off an occultnik cliff.

One a side note, my "Aiwass" (and about 7 others) are always queued by me. Motherfuckers can't even tell me the time when I ask them for it. Must be a trade off for the periodic antagonism.

 Quote:
A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ?

An angry junkie faggot.
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#114491 - 09/25/17 12:09 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Obitus]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6869
Loc: Virginia
Crowley was neither Satanist nor Luciferian, he was the 'great pretender' in occult circles. If I were to give him a category, I'd say he was the grand troll, until he lost his focus from heroine use and misunderstanding of Yogic teachings. I have a pretty vast collection of his books. I'd say the one thing that stands out to me the most through those pages, was his desire to be remembered. That speaks of something inept to me. As if he longed for something he did not attain while he was living. Some deficiency. Perhaps it was a general rejection by his so-called 'peers' but even then, that's just more evidence for a coveted acceptance. Most likely the reason he poured so much passion into that endeavor that it became his religion. Thelema certainly wasn't it.

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#114508 - 09/27/17 11:53 AM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: SIN3]
Vigilia_Matutina Offline
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Registered: 07/12/17
Posts: 8
Loc: Las Vegas, NV
Crowley on the spectrum is more likely placed on the LHP if you follow the more liberating aspects of his ideology. He believes that magick is simply in the mind and through it, you could create interesting results that bends whatever target to your will.

That sounds more liberating than believing that the Gods, God, or any malevolent or non-malevolent forces out there control many aspects of your life. Sounds a bit more Luciferian, but as clearly stated Crowley is a thelemite.
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#114510 - 09/27/17 02:56 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Vigilia_Matutina]
Obitus Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 27
 Originally Posted By: Vigilia_Matutina
He believes that magick is simply in the mind and through it, you could create interesting results that bends whatever target to your will.

That sounds more liberating than believing that the Gods, God, or any malevolent or non-malevolent forces out there control many aspects of your life.


"Destiny is an absolutely definite and inexorable ruler. Physical ability and moral determination count for nothing. It is impossible to perform the simplest act when the gods say 'No.' I have no idea how they bring pressure to bear on such occasions; I only know that it is irresistible. One may be wholeheartedly eager to do something which is as easy as falling off a log; and yet it is impossible." - Confessions

And even though I just put this one above, I figure I might as well repeat it since everybody pretends they didn't hear this one, including Thelemites:

“The Holy Guardian Angel is not the 'Higher Self' but an Objective Individual. . . . He is not, let me say with emphasis, a mere abstraction from yourself; and that is why I have insisted rather heavily that the term ‘Higher Self’ implies ‘a damnable heresy and a dangerous delusion.’ . . . He is not to be found by any exploration of oneself. It is true that the process of analysis leads finally to the realization of oneself as no more than a point of view indistinguishable in itself from any other point of view; but the Holy Guardian Angel is in precisely the same position. However close may be the identities in millions of ways, no complete identification is ever obtainable. But do remember this, above all else; they are objective, not subjective, or I should not waste good Magick on them.” - Magick Without Tears

Crowley was only into the idea that it's "all in your head" when he was young. Everyone and their momma ignores like there's no tomorrow the rest of his career.

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#114511 - 09/27/17 03:17 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Berruelle]
Obitus Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/20/17
Posts: 27
This is an abridged form of an article I wrote about this whole "Was Crowley a Satanist" thing. Maybe somebody will find it useful:

In Magick in Theory and Practice, Crowley famously stated the oft-quoted line:

“The Devil does not exist. It is a false name invented by the Black Brothers to imply a Unity in their ignorant muddle of dispersions. A devil who had unity would be a God.”


Many see this line, rejoice that they have finally found the truth about Crowley’s views on Satan, and consider the case closed. Obviously, anyone who comes to such a conclusion from this line neglected to read the footnote to this passage on the very same page:

“’The Devil’ is, historically, the God of any people that one personally dislikes. This has led to so much confusion of thought that THE BEAST 666 has preferred to let names stand as they are, and to proclaim simply that AIWAZ, the solar-phallic-hermetic ‘Lucifer,’ is His own Holy Guardian Angel, and ‘The Devil’ SATAN or HADIT, the Supreme Soul behind RA-HOOR-KHUIT the Sun, the Lord of our particular unit of the Starry Universe. This serpent, SATAN, is not the enemy of Man, but He who made Gods of our race, knowing Good and Evil; He bade ‘Know Thyself!’ and taught Initiation. He is ‘the Devil’ of the Book of Thoth, and His emblem is BAPHOMET, the Androgyne who is the hieroglyph of arcane perfection. The number of His Atu is XV, which is Yod He, the Monogram of the Eternal, the Father one with the Mother, the Virgin Seed one with all-containing Space. He is therefore Life, and Love. But moreover his letter is Ayin, the Eye; he is Light, and his Zodiacal image is Capricornus, that leaping goat whose attribute is Liberty.”

Now, for some reason, many of those who have noticed this supremely important footnote have seemed to somehow either not comprehend the gravity of this short statement, or purposefully try to downplay the importance. It is clear here that Crowley is not saying that an entity popularly known as “The Devil” does not exist. He is saying that the Judeo-Christian concept of a supremely powerful deity of pure “evil” does not exist. Crowley clearly does not believed that the “God of any people that one personally dislikes” is non-existent just because you don’t like them. What does not exist is the false Christian idea of anti-God of evil. Also, Crowley is certainly not trying to say that Hadit does not exist in the footnote. Nor is he implying that it is a case of mistaken identity between Hadit and Satan; nobody made that identification but Crowley himself.

What Crowley is referencing here by “confusion of thought,” and what has led to it, is the long, complicated, and often muddled definitions of who and what the Devil is. Crowley was more than acquainted with this long history and its confusions, and therefore opted to “state simply” who and what “Satan” and the “The Devil” is to him. And, to Crowley, Satan is Aiwaz, the author of the Book of the Law, and is equated with Hadit, and also the “Spiritual Sun” behind Ra-Hoor-Khuit. It is easy to see why this passage is targeted out as being some sort of joke or blind, when there is nothing to suggest such a thing. Crowley is not arguing a case of mistaken identity here, he is arguing a case of mistaken character. He is not saying that it’s silly to equate Thelema with Satan because Satan is a concept of evil not shared in Thelema. He is saying that it is silly to equate Satan with a concept of evil not shared in Thelema.

Many will still object that the passage refers not to the individual Spirit known as “The Devil” popularly, but to etymological roots of concepts. I really hate having to repeat and emphasize parts of this footnote that everyone is familiar with, but I don’t really know what else to do in this instance. “Satan.” “Lucifer.” “The Devil.” One could get away with turning it all into a reference to Roman venusian deities, Hebrew slurs, and Arabic demonology, if it were not for the fact that all three terms were used deliberately by Crowley in the same sentence. Crowley was more than aware of the history of those terms, and knew very well that if you use all three labels together for the same entity, (in this case for Aiwaz,) it makes it unmistakeable who and what he means.

The uncomfortable (for many) conclusion, if one takes Crowley’s words seriously, is that Satan is literally the heart of Thelema. Oddly enough, nobody seems to have much of a problem at all with using the Greek Pan as an alternative figurehead for the religion of Life, Love, and Liberty, and we all know how often the name of Pan is uttered in the Book of the Law: absolutely none.

It is often objected that “Crowley never calls his religion Satanism.” This we will concede; he never did. However, Crowley’s vehement reactions to being labelled a “Black Magician” are legendary. Yet, for all the times he was openly called a “Devil Worshipper,” and the religion he preached, “Satanism,” Crowley’s righteous indignation is nowhere to be found. One of the men who wrote in the papers that Crowley and his followers were “Devil Worshippers” was William Seabrook, a personal friend of Crowley’s, both before and after the “inflammatory” article was published.

I am not implying that Crowley was dishonest and his entire religion really is an inverted Christianity devoted to the worship of a fallen rebel from the court of JHVH. I am instead insisting that Crowley, while identifying the central deities of his religion with Satan, was teaching a radically different notion of who and what this being is, while maintaining that it is indeed the same being.

I think it would be useful to add a selection of excerpts from Crowley's diary entries during his stay at the Abbey of Thelema. Published in the rarely seen The Magical Record of the Beast 666, these diary entries exhibit even further Crolwey's complete identification of Aiwaz with the Devil:

“She certainly gave me what I've been losing. Youth's intensity, its craving, the soul-priapism, huge lust and fierce to her, clamour for her to realize with me that mightiest marriage-dream, that Sacrament of Satan that may be consummated only beneath Night's dome, in utmost silence, because its Elements are not symbols of things, but They themselves.”

“When I was Levi, I drew myself as Ayin or Baphomet, 'The Devil' with Beast's Head. This is the Beast throned, crowned, exalted; the leaper, the erect, the butter-in. Her womb is my city, Babel. This Ayin is then my phallic will, my Holy Guardian Angel, Aiwaz, who was afterwards called Satan.”

“Come, Come, Come, Aiwaz! Come, thou Devil Our Lord!”

“My light! O my father the Devil! It hath made all things one, being perfect, even as doth the Darkness!”

“And Her Concoction shall be sweet in our mixed mouths, the Sacrament that giveth thanks to Aiwaz, our Lord God the Devil, that He hath fused His Beast's soul with His Scarlet Whore's, to be One Soul completed, that It may set His image in the Temple of Man, and thrust His Will's rod over them and rule them. And that imperléd sea, dark with that oozy shore-mud which it washed, shall wash us, body and mind, of all that is not He, moisten our throats and loosen our loud Song of praise, Thanksgiving unto Him.”

“I sing for God, our Devil, our Lord, Aiwaz.”

“. . . and know that all my joy, perfect, transcending sense, is given of Aiwaz, whom we call the Devil, whose name is Will, loud-uttered by cocaine, is Love.”

“Our Lord the Devil's their Word, the Word Thelema, spoken of me The Beast.”

“I with Alostrael alone - we shall do Magick unto our Lord the Devil such as the Earth hath never known.”

“Yea! as I loath, I lust; I prostitute myself to thee, perversely prurient - Wilt thou not make this night the nameless nuptial, the Devil thy Lord and mine at Our Black Mass?”

“I invoked Aiwaz, was shown a phantasm of Baphomet, and suddenly determined to recognize this for Him!”


And from Liber Samekh:

“Thou spiritual Sun! Satan, Thou Eye, Thou Lust! Cry aloud! Cry aloud! Whirl the Wheel, O my Father, O Satan, O Sun! Thou, the Saviour! Silence! Give me Thy Secret! Give me suck, Thou Phallus, Thou Sun! Satan, thou Eye, thou Lust! Satan, thou Eye, thou Lust! Satan, thou Eye, thou Lust! Thou self-caused, self-determined, exalted, Most High!”

“Now this word SABAF, being by number Three score and Ten, is a name of Ayin, the Eye, and the Devil our Lord, and the Goat of Mendes. He is the Lord of the Sabbath of the Adepts, and is Satan, therefore also the Sun, whose number of Magick is 666, the seal of His servant the BEAST.”


To this we may add further from Magick in Theory and Practice:

“The exalted “Devil” (also the other secret Eye) by the formula of the Initiation of Horus elsewhere described in detail. This “Devil” is called Satan or Shaitan, and regarded with horror by people who are ignorant of his formula, and, imagining themselves to be evil, accuse Nature herself of their own phantasmal crime. Satan is Saturn, Set, Abrasax, Adad, Adonis, Attis, Adam, Adonai, etc. The most serious charge against him is that he is the Sun in the South. . .

“We have therefore no scruple in restoring the ‘devil-worship’ of such ideas as those which the laws of sound, and the phenomena of speech and hearing, compel us to connect with the group of ‘Gods’ whose names are based upon ShT, or D, vocalized by the free breath A. For these Names imply the qualities of courage, frankness, energy, pride, power and triumph; they are the words which express the creative and paternal will.

“Thus ‘the Devil’ is Capricornus, the Goat who leaps upon the loftiest mountains, the Godhead which, if it become manifest in man, makes him Aegipan, the All.”


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#114512 - 09/27/17 05:21 PM Re: A. CROWLEY; satanist or luciferian ? [Re: Vigilia_Matutina]
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 Originally Posted By: Vigilia_Matutina
Crowley on the spectrum is more likely placed on the LHP if you follow the more liberating aspects of his ideology.
Believe me, I've read everything he's ever written. None of it was convincing. I suppose my fascination with it was watching a man justify his baggage in a small volume library.


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He believes that magick is simply in the mind and through it, you could create interesting results that bends whatever target to your will.


Yet, he needed to be a special snowflake and give it his own spelling to discern it from stage magic? As if that magic isn't cut of the same cloth? That it too isn't just a bunch of mind games?

 Quote:

That sounds more liberating than believing that the Gods, God, or any malevolent or non-malevolent forces out there control many aspects of your life. Sounds a bit more Luciferian, but as clearly stated Crowley is a thelemite.



He believed in his own abilities with the same fervor as a god. Even when he was just peacocking, pretentious and mostly full of shit. It's not a very convincing argument.
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