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#20800 - 02/19/09 02:02 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Zoid]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3110
 Quote:
In a universe with no moral dimension, the most dangerous entity in the room makes the rules for that room, and if the other denizens complain about moral codes being violated, every word they say can be rejected a priori as gibberish.

The real choices the denizens have are as follows:
1. Follow the rules.
2. Break the rules and prepare for defensive combat alone or with allies.
3. Attack, alone or with allies, the dangerous entity who made the rules.

Take a step back and think. Our Universe has no moral rules.
The strongest "entity" are the laws of nature (not the "strongest will survive" crap.. I'm talking about the laws of physics which also are nature, only described in terms we can understand). Nature isn't an entity, it's just a mere "force" at overall. Some may reflect on it as a god, others as a force, others as a force who stands for... and so on. Against nature nothing can be done, it has universal laws we must obey. We can only use the laws to our own good-doing by studying and manipulating them.

Keep in mind: within this Universe there just aren't any moral rules. Moral rules are man-made, erase them from existance and only the non-moral rules of nature will remain.
And with "non-moral rules of nature" I'm talking about the most lucky species survives etc..
And those rules/laws are just a part of understanding Satanic thinking.


Edited by Dimitri (02/19/09 02:07 PM)
Edit Reason: expanded toughts
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#20810 - 02/19/09 04:37 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Morgan]
Zoid Offline
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Registered: 01/24/09
Posts: 109
Loc: USA - New Jersey
 Originally Posted By: Morgan
So after everything you wrote out, you simply agreed with him.


I mustn't have been clear, then, since I think Diavolo and I have two significant areas of disagreement, and that doesn't include the semantic quibble about whether "might is right" is a mechanism or a philosophical principle, especially since I've come to see what he's saying in that regard and it makes sense to me, after reading his later post below.

When fleshing out a disagreement with someone, I intentionally identify all the areas of agreement, as a way of clarifying the true areas of disagreement. Also, along the way, I sometimes learn something from the other person, and when that happens, I make a point of saying so.

The two areas of disagreement between Diavolo and myself are:

1. Diavolo sees no worthwhile purpose in the original formulation, and my subsequent embracing, of the Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth and the Nine Satanic Sins; whereas, by contrast, I see worthwhile purpose in all of that.

2. Diavolo sees no worthwhile purpose in choosing to work against those forces that threaten the existence of animal species; whereas, by contrast, I see worthwhile purpose in it.


 Originally Posted By: Morgan

It seems that "stuff" that comes naturally and flows to most "Satanists", you have a problem internalizing. It seems that you at times go and use all this flowery language in an attempt to almost convince yourself of what it all means.


Or to convince myself (and maybe others) of what it doesn't mean. For example, Satanism doesn't mean a disengagement from the full spectrum of emotions. Or at least it doesn't have to, in my view.

 Originally Posted By: Morgan

Are you sure, of who you are, what you feel inside, and what really resonates with your own internal core of being?


I had hoped I was expressing all that. Nevertheless, I do have a question about myself that might be significant. I wonder if I'm as Narcissistic as some others, and if I'm not, I wonder what that means.

 Originally Posted By: Morgan

Its okay if this isn't for you, and just an exercise in learning about others and yourself.


Everything I do is just that: an exercise in learning about others and myself.


 Originally Posted By: Morgan

Enjoy your quest,


Thank you.

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#20814 - 02/19/09 09:09 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Zoid]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

For example, Satanism doesn't mean a disengagement from the full spectrum of emotions. Or at least it doesn't have to, in my view.

Of course it doesn't.

The full spectrum of emotions that we, as humans, can feel are a very large part of our animal nature. As Satanism centers on embracing ones humanity in it's totality, as opposed to cherry picking certain aspects to adore and others to demonize.

Separating emotions into 'good' and 'bad' and then willfully denying expression to those deemed 'bad' leads to all sorts of problems. To be master of ones own universe you must keep the beast that is your psyche happy.

Freeing yourself of pent up emotions that may impede your goals makes achieving them much more likely. In fact, this is the whole idea behind Greater Magic.

So, in short, Satanism can never embody emotional disengagement. We leave that to the christians and whatnot.
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#22575 - 03/26/09 11:09 AM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Dan_Dread]
97and107 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
Absolutely, I fully believe in embracing all emotions and finding out what each one means. The dualistic approach serves nothing but to fracture the conscious mind.

Well I am not a Laveyan Satanist nor have I read his books, but I do pick up a lot word-of-mouth...I should really set out to read these.

I don't wear leather anymore, it was more of a test of discipline to see if I could do it, and I love animals. So I noticed just a few weeks ago that Lavey's own personal rules conveys this same ethic, since wearing leather is certainly not food, and our advancement has lead to the development of superior fabrics such as cotton and wool felt. But since leather is a by-product of the meat industry, I think this may be acceptable. if one buys all buffalo meat should one buy all buffalo leather, then? \:D

I put myself on the spot last night because I promised my mother I would buy her a patent leather purse from Brighton tomorrow, so I will be breaking my own rule, oh goody, blasphemy!

I was wondering about "the mating signal"

how does that work? is it for men only? Because if either one gives "the mating signal" isn't that a sexual advance...I guess it's something casual like a wink or a flirtatious statement...

I think I use my eyes most of all. if I look someone in the eyes its rare, but this is cultural - on most reservations native americans rarely look each other in the eyes, which caused some trouble with the European settlers and native diplomacy as I remember - in European culture looking each other in the eye is a sign of respect, not a threat.

If a man looks me in the eyes I immediately avert my gaze as I don't want him to think I wish for his sexual advances.



Edited by 97and107 (03/26/09 11:12 AM)

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#23033 - 04/06/09 09:20 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: 97and107]
OG MUPPET Offline
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Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 17
Loc: st/louis Mo.
Killing kids and animals. Ill start with the easy one first.

I haven't read it in a long time but if memory severs me right it gos as.. Do not kill animals, except for food and self-defense. I'd say if you look at all of Anton's writing/bios etc.
you'd envision a man who is an animal loving "fool". In his vast plethora of jobs,he has never worked on a farm. For if he had, it mite have read "never kill animals except for food,self-defense AND to protect ones' own pets/live stock/property.

I know. I know. not much difference, but enough to sway a jury ( ones own sense of right and wrong) to convict or acquit. And had that "farm job" been in Texes, coyotes would have been exempt all together.

Killing kids, well their can't be any reason for that, right? lol

During the U.S. civil war, the union army devies code patterns (advance right flank, left flank, etc) in the drum rolls. Guess who they got to dispatch them on the field, the "Little drummer boy". The South got wise to this and started targeting the Little bastards. (I would have. would you?) I can only guess what a few (if any) are thinking. What kind of sick fuck would put a round in the brain pan of a 8/9/10 year old boy. Too this I say, what AssHole!; puts them on the front line?

summery, "Some times were we stand, depends on were we're standing"

post scipt. Back in 95, when the embers of the "satanic panic" were still smoldering. I watch an X-files episode, were Satan himself comes too collect some unpaid union dues, from some dead-beat devil worshipers. The story line is irrelevant, but one line had/has merit for this thread, when Molder states to Skully that "satanist openly reject the ways of child and human sacrifice) I know, only a TV show right, but the writers who researched it most likely read the very words we are debating now. That's the "house niggery" hard at work.

off topic; The very same actor David Duchovny, 13 years play a character with a openly practicing dauther in the show Californication.


Edited by OG MUPPET (04/06/09 09:31 PM)

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#23035 - 04/06/09 09:55 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: OG MUPPET]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
'House niggery'. I honestly find that offensive. As if Satanism is not 'evil' enough, or is supposed to represent some sort of teenage rebellion against society. I often wish the people that took up this line of thinking would just remove themselves from society once and for all and be true to their angsty philosophy.. Ahh to dream...

I have said it before, and I will say it again. Satanism is for Satanists. If you find the 'rules' restrictive, you are barking up the wrong tree, and should probably go do something else.
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#23055 - 04/07/09 06:40 AM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Dan_Dread]
Meq Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread
'House niggery'. I honestly find that offensive.

That honestly made me laugh out loud. Appealing to offensiveness as an argument against a stance? I thought "political correctness" wasn't an argument.
Do you honestly believe Anton LaVey didn't have "public relations" (to put it in a more euphemistic context) in mind whatsoever when he included the rules?

I don't personally go around killing kids or raping people, simply because I don't have a particular desire to do those things, yet alone deal with the consequences of such actions.
I don't need a list of rules from some dead guy to give myself some kind of emotional confirmation in my decision not to abuse kids. It's simply not my choice.

Then again, I can see many inconsistencies in the LaVeyan stance.

If you support the cessation of welfare, you are promoting the slow and agonizing deaths by starvation of many innocent children who cannot be financially supported by their parents. Even if you argue it's the parents' responsibility, you can't blame the kids for their parents being irresponsible - yet you are promoting their suffering and death all the same.

Similarly, if you support the cessation of aid to countries which cannot support themselves, you condemn their children to a terrible and painful death by starvation.

If you support war, you necessarily promote the agonizing death and maiming of many innocent children - unless you take 'collateral damage' as more than a euphemism which enables you to take a comfortable emotional detachment from the situation.

All of these positions directly contradict the rule "do not harm little children".

Also, if you universally condemn rape, well - it is very likely that a conception going back far enough in your chain of ancestors was due to a non-consentual act. If they had followed your rules, you wouldn't be here. Simple.

 Quote:
I have said it before, and I will say it again. Satanism is for Satanists. If you find the 'rules' restrictive, you are barking up the wrong tree, and should probably go do something else.

Anton LaVey might have popularized the term "Satanism" in a non-literalistic fashion. That doesn't make his ideas the be-all and end-all of what defines "Satanism".
If you look in the dictionary, you'll see "Satanism" defined as "devil worship". Why? Because LaVey hasn't had enough of an influence to affect the dictionary. Might makes right indeed.

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#23070 - 04/07/09 08:49 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Meq]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
That's some really terrible logic, meq. Just terrible.

To start with, I don't know how you arrived at my finding something offensive as being an 'argument'. That's just weird.

You are firstly arguing direct responsibility through degrees of separation. By your logic I am directly responsible for the destruction of rain forests because I use toilet paper, and I am directly responsible for the slaughter of animals because I eat meat. Arguing responsibility through separation is socialism, the very antithesis of Satanism. If you honestly think your argument holds water, which I don't, then you are arguing for socialism and by proxy, egalitarianism.


Secondly, you make the argument that rape is ok because, somewhere in the line of there to here, someone was probably raped in my ancestry. Really, Meq? Because something happened is not a philosophically sound reason to grandfather it into acceptance and legitimacy. If you go back far enough every human is related, but that does not mean I by default have to approve of every action every human before me has ever made. That my friend is a giant non sequitur.

And thirdly, if you are really arguing for Satanism being devil worship(because dictionaries printed in a predominantly christian society say so!), have at it. I don't think you will find much support there, however.

But just out of curiosity, since you are going to go down THAT road, what exactly is Satanism if not..well..Satanism?
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#23072 - 04/07/09 09:29 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Zoid]
Euronymous Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 46
Loc: san diego, ca
I would have to concur on your aforemetioned statements. These are rules that I naturally uphold and I do take benefit from them. They help give an added measure of fufillment in its practical application.

Edited by Euronymous (04/07/09 09:30 PM)
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#23079 - 04/08/09 09:01 AM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Euronymous]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Alright look you idiot(s)(whoever that may apply to). If you seriously want to debate stupid shit like killing animals and kids and when is who and what, then knock yourself out. If you don't get it it aint for you. If it IS for you, you get it and you have already been doing it. Are you seriously going to sit here and pick apart every little goddamn thing LaVey could have POSSIBLY meant? That's retarded. Everything is circumstantial, and everything is permissable in the propper circumstances. If you don't understand the things like killing kids and shit, then you need help.
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#23082 - 04/08/09 12:47 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: blsk]
6Saint6John6 Offline
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Wisconsin
The Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth are simple to follow and make a ton of sense. How anyone dumb enough to think of killing an animal, or a human child, or drinking the blood of another is somehow linked to the Eleven Rules, should be hit in the head with the Satanic Bible and be called a disgrace and thrown in jail for being stupid!
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#23083 - 04/08/09 12:50 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
As Satanist we oppose and we accuse. That we got this tendency can be witnessed here on this forum. If someone with a slightly different opinion or idea presents it in this place, within a short amount of time, many of us, like a pack of rabid dogs, pick it apart. It's a good thing, all ideas and arguments need to be criticized before taken as valid. And, as a bonus, it shows what stuff the poster is made from. After all, we're always looking for the right stuff.
But what amuses me greatly is that some of those same persons that have no qualms about ripping others a new asshole because their idea is either weak or considered as silly, apparently start to feel emotional when their ideas are criticized.

Let me explain that on this forum, we always criticized everything -I never have known different- and personally I do think that anyone not able to tolerate some aspects being criticized, should ask themselves some very serious questions. There is nothing holy or divine and expect that every brick of your foundation can or will be criticized, attacked or destroyed when the time is there. If people can't handle that, I will kindly give them links to fluffier places where they maybe can create a wish list of ideas and opinions beyond criticism. But down here, in my case, when I feel inclined to use words like houseniggery, I will use words like houseniggery. And I only expect the Nancies to act like Nancies.

After all, a Satanist is a rock, not a facade.

D.

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#23087 - 04/08/09 01:51 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Diavolo]
blsk Offline
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Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
Houseniggery is a fine word indeed. I agree with you. Everyone criticizes. I was merely criticizing the point of this discussion, that's all. And you came back with your thoughts. Tell me how it's important. Tell me it doesn't need to be. I thought that's what we were doing here.
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#23088 - 04/08/09 02:17 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: blsk]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
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The point of this discussion was that everything is circumstantial, as you subscribe to, and that everything is permissible when a need arises. And that, therefor, unless as an act of what I call societal houseniggery, it is plain nonsense to subscribe to rules that are essentially worthless due to the fact that when a certain situation arises, one can easily put them aside and act differently. It is also important to point out that indirect results can contradict certain ideas, ideals or positions we consider above. And it is important to criticize the very things we take for granted or are essential parts of our beliefs. That's why we are having arguments like this and yes, it is never as amusing to criticize that what is us, as criticizing that what is them.

D.

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#23091 - 04/08/09 03:27 PM Re: Eleven Satanic Rules of the Earth [Re: Diavolo]
6Saint6John6 Offline
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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Wisconsin
You have a good point, why would we crizcize ourselves? Nothing is perfect but it is what and who we are. In no way do I criticize what we are, but I say there are some faults but that is true of everything.
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