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#20878 - 02/20/09 07:07 PM Respect
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
From experience, I've noticed that for the most part respect is something that is earned or rewarded rather than given for the sake of demanding or requesting it. With this in mind, I have also been told countless times to "respect my elders". This always used to piss me off. Does living longer than someone really mean you deserve respect? Just because someone may have earned the respect of others doesn't mean they deserve respect from all. What are some of your opinions on this? Do you think experience or age alone earns you respect? Or do you believe it is deeper than that and respect can be earned at any age? In the eyes of society it seems that most people think respecting your elders is a must, but for what reason? Because children are more naive and easier to manipulate and they're more likely to listen to someone who tells them how to think? If you ask me I think the whole concept of respecting those older than you just because they've "been around the block" is bullshit. Am I the only one? People tend to generalize a lot when it comes to things like this, as if the whole idea is meant to send the message that more mature half of society deserve more respect for whatever reason. This may be true to some extent, but in some situations I feel if an adult doesn't display respect worthy traits, or shows no respect for me for that matter, then they don't deserve even the slightest bit of respect from me.

So, my question of course is what's your take on this?
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20880 - 02/20/09 07:29 PM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It all depends, Mike. Even as a teenager, I never really "respected" my elders. Some, however, were worth listening to and taking advice from. I guess you could call that respect.

As an adult, however, the playing field has been leveled. Just because someone is as old as my dad, does not mean they get instant respect out of me. Quite the opposite, as the older a person is, the more I feel they should BE respectable. When they fall short (as is so often the case), they garner nothing but scorn from me.

Respect can also be compartmentalized, in that a person could have decades of experience in a field, or from just living life (ie, could be a genius at fixing cars), but be total idiots when it comes to everything else. Therefore, I'd say that "I respect his opinion on (insert blank)". However, that does not mean that I repect him as a person, ie, the whole package.

Capeche?
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Nothing is sacred.

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#20884 - 02/20/09 07:44 PM Re: Respect [Re: Nemesis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
That's exactly what my point was. I just can't see why the rest of society teaches kids to respect their elders without reason. It's the same principle with Santa Clause. It's a nice idea, but so full of shit even a 6 year old should be able to tell it's ridiculous. I can't speak for every other kid in society, but I know I sure as hell thought the whole concept was bullshit from a fairly young age. It was always one of those things I would ask an adult about and their only answer would be "because I told you so". Now that I'm older I'm starting to realize that the majority of people just go with the flow rather than questioning all of the stupidity in society. If it weren't for the very few who do question or protest and try to change things for the better of society, we'd all just be pre-programmed robots stuck in a never ending cycle of ridiculousness until we die. This must be that "real world" people keep talking about.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20897 - 02/20/09 09:18 PM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
I agree with everything that has been said so far.

Respect should be reciprocal, but this is rarely the case. As a matter of courtesy, I am generally respectful to those that I meet, but if they either show none in return, or in any other way reveal themselves to be unworthy of respect, then I show them none. I may still be polite, cordial even, but I do not defer to them like I might have previously, even if they happen to be in a position of authority.

Case in point, from my own experience, which also ties into the whole "respect for one's elders" concept:

I attend a fairly prestigious conservatory of music; prestige, unfortunately, is not without its pricetag. I pay the same amount of tuition as everybody else (at least that's something; they rip everyone off equally), and believe me, it is exorbitant. However, I've begun to question whether it has really been worth it; the facilities are antiquated (part of the place's charm, granted, but outdated from a practical point of view), and there are a limited number of practice rooms, the majority of which are "piano priority" rooms, which means if you are in the practice room, and a pianist needs the room, you must yield it to them. So, being fortunate enough to play an instrument which is not only portable, but suitable to play indoors, we guitarists seek out alternative places to practice when there are no available practice rooms, like outside in the plaza during Spring and Summer when the weather is more agreeable, or in the lounge, or in the cafeteria.

Now, to my point. My friend and I were in the cafeteria one afternoon having lunch and talking, and he begins to tell me about a piece he has been learning to play. I am unfamiliar with the piece, so he gets his guitar out and begins to play it for me to demonstrate. At the table behind us, some members of the faculty and staff were seated. He gets a few bars into the piece, and one of the female staff/faculty turns around in her chair staring daggers into my friend's back, and proceeds to tell him (in a less than respectful manner) that we were not in a practice room, they (the faculty) were trying to have lunch, and that they were not to be serenaded.

This was just one incident; we guitarists are chased out of everywhere that is not a practice room, regardless of whether there are any available at the time. We are told by faculty, low-level sycophants, as well as campus security officers. Ever since that day, and looking back on all of the times I myself have been told to move along, I have lost respect for most of the staff and faculty (especially with the way she comported herself) and, therefore, the place itself.

This is a school of music, a place to not only study music, but to engage in practical application of that study i.e. playing music; I pay the salaries of all of those on the faculty, and I pay for the use of the facilities so, in essence, I own the faculty, as well as a little piece of the place while I am there. So, I ask you this: am I the asshole? Were we in the wrong? It is my opinion that if these people are trying to get away from music in a school of music, then they are in the wrong place by setting even one toe across the threshold. Out of all the noise in a cafeteria, these people would rather silence the beauty of music rather than the din of conversation. It is counterproductive, is it not, to stop us from doing what we go there to do in the first place?

I apologize for the long-winded rant, but I am still pretty steamed about the whole thing. I feel like my time there has been wasted by these useless people who seem to have forgotten their place as my bitches.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#20918 - 02/21/09 12:16 AM Re: Respect [Re: Draculesti]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Most "kids" are just that. Kids. Even the most intelligent or streetwise kids don't often deserve the same respect that comes from the life experience an average "elder" has. Most people do not really learn how to conduct themselves with anything that gets close to deserving respect until they have "lived" a little. That happens for everyone at a different age and for lots of people never at all. But it only comes with age. No one pops out of their momma deserving respect.

That said, "elders" (anyone older than you by more than a few years) usually have more experience than you do. What they have done with that experience is entirely an individual matter. Do some elders deserve your respect? That's up to you.

I'd put it this way. Disrespect your elders at your own risk. Those who deserved your respect will see you for the inexperienced silly child you've acted like, and those that didn't deserve it in the first place won't know the difference. I know this is a hard concept if you have to ask the question in the first place, but it's something some people never get, while other people have to live through certain experiences before they can "get it". There are those who just get respect but that's another subject entirely and very few people "command" respect naturally. (Though alot of those that do could likely be Satanists or have a Satanic nature).

Give respect carefully, it's easily misused and often confused with other feelings, like love or admiration, or dislike and fear. These are not respect. Don't delude yourself and think because you may be a little smarter than the average kid that you have nothing to lose by disrespecting your elders, or nothing to gain by giving some up.

And to the OP. Take notice of friends your age one day and count how many of them "deseerve your respect". Then look around at your elders and honestly count how many of them "deserve your respect". Then ask yourself this question again \:\)

p.s. While I realize it may feel like major suckage to be told to "respect your elders" as a young person (and I didn't have much respect for most of them when I was a kid), I did reserve respect for those who deserved it and that served me well.


Edited by Master Magick (02/21/09 12:23 AM)
Edit Reason: added ps
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Magick

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#20921 - 02/21/09 02:01 AM Re: Respect [Re: Master Magick]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Age should have nothing to do with respect. People's life experience doesn't have anything to do with age. I have met people that were the biggest shut ins while they were growing up which led them to having no experience in anything. What respect do they deserve? NONE.

Respect is given to those that deserve it. Responsibility to the responsible. I have more respect for some young people more then I do for elders for the fact that times have changed since the elders have grown up, and the younger person(s) have learned more about life then the elder.

Age is only a number nothing more nothing less. Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.

So do I think that respect be automaticly given to elders? No. If they prove themselves worthy of such respect they get the respect but until then they mean nothing.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20925 - 02/21/09 02:51 AM Re: Respect [Re: Ringmaster]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Read again. Rinse. Repeat.
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Magick

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#20932 - 02/21/09 04:07 AM Re: Respect [Re: Master Magick]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Reply wasn't directed at you I hit the reply button and not quick reply.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

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#20936 - 02/21/09 04:34 AM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Respecting the elders is a remnant from the days of yore. When you check out tribal groups, you'll notice that respect is still there and it is natural for youngsters to have it. Those old dudes hunted, killed, fucked and defended more and their gathered knowledge, a collection of theirs and their ancestors, which is essential to the survival of the tribe, is passed from them onto the youngsters again. So they get respect for it because they are important.

In our current society it all doesn't mean shit any longer but the suggestion to have respect might well be leftover of this habit of thousands of years. In some ways we still continue the tradition but use different ways to define tribe.

D.

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#20941 - 02/21/09 05:42 AM Re: Respect [Re: Diavolo]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
The reason respecting your elders still holds on some level, is because until proven otherwise, they do have more experience and have made many a mistake to learn from. You don't have to respect an idiot of any age, but don't judge a book by it's cover.

By showing respect to your elders, until proven that they are not worthy, you will by default garner the respect of other elders, who see your weighing of judgement and not just assuming that you know more or are smarter etc.

So there is a positive to be had from doing it. It's not just all smoke and mirrors.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


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#20949 - 02/21/09 10:09 AM Re: Respect [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I don't particularly care whether someone respects me or not. I've made my bones and can prove my worth against anyone.

But DISRESPECT me at your own peril, especially if at an arms length from me. I've been known to rip people a new asshole for opening their mouth just a little too much.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#20950 - 02/21/09 12:05 PM Re: Respect [Re: Jake999]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
The concept of respect is flawed in that the general expectance of reciprocation is subjective as well as the context of where it's applied furthering the notions of the matriarchal and patriachal extenuating the social psychological connotations, as well as the fact the concept of respect strangely boarders on that of a protocol, yet remains an accepted opinion subjectivly almost like a paradox...
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#20956 - 02/21/09 12:55 PM Re: Respect [Re: Ringmaster]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.


Wow. That one suprised me. Thanks? I don't know how to react to that, but I see your point and do have to agree with it.

I like what D said referring to the tribal concept. In that situation I could see respecting the elders, but only for what they have done. I can't see respecting someone just because of their age. I suppose I, as most here apparently, see this as yet another problem in society that will most likely never be resolved. By that of course I mean bullshit will survive, and the ones who stand against it are too little in number and usually die out with very few even recognizing them for who they were or what they did. It's not just the age/respect thing, it goes for many "traditions" in society. I don't know about you all, but I think society is ready for a real change.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#20958 - 02/21/09 01:53 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: Mike
 Quote:
Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.


Wow. That one suprised me. Thanks? I don't know how to react to that, but I see your point and do have to agree with it.

I like what D said referring to the tribal concept. In that situation I could see respecting the elders, but only for what they have done. I can't see respecting someone just because of their age. I suppose I, as most here apparently, see this as yet another problem in society that will most likely never be resolved. By that of course I mean bullshit will survive, and the ones who stand against it are too little in number and usually die out with very few even recognizing them for who they were or what they did. It's not just the age/respect thing, it goes for many "traditions" in society. I don't know about you all, but I think society is ready for a real change.


I just made that entire argument invalid:

 Originally Posted By: joseph oreilly
The concept of respect is flawed in that the general expectance of reciprocation is subjective as well as the context of where it's applied furthering the notions of the matriarchal and patriachal extenuating the social psychological connotations, as well as the fact the concept of respect strangely boarders on that of a protocol, yet remains an accepted opinion subjectivly almost like a paradox...

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#20960 - 02/21/09 02:03 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Joseph..
Really, shut up... You didn't made it invalid, you agreed with it.
What you have written in your language is basically the same as mike said...
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