Page all of 2 12>
Topic Options
#20878 - 02/20/09 07:07 PM Respect
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
From experience, I've noticed that for the most part respect is something that is earned or rewarded rather than given for the sake of demanding or requesting it. With this in mind, I have also been told countless times to "respect my elders". This always used to piss me off. Does living longer than someone really mean you deserve respect? Just because someone may have earned the respect of others doesn't mean they deserve respect from all. What are some of your opinions on this? Do you think experience or age alone earns you respect? Or do you believe it is deeper than that and respect can be earned at any age? In the eyes of society it seems that most people think respecting your elders is a must, but for what reason? Because children are more naive and easier to manipulate and they're more likely to listen to someone who tells them how to think? If you ask me I think the whole concept of respecting those older than you just because they've "been around the block" is bullshit. Am I the only one? People tend to generalize a lot when it comes to things like this, as if the whole idea is meant to send the message that more mature half of society deserve more respect for whatever reason. This may be true to some extent, but in some situations I feel if an adult doesn't display respect worthy traits, or shows no respect for me for that matter, then they don't deserve even the slightest bit of respect from me.

So, my question of course is what's your take on this?
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#20880 - 02/20/09 07:29 PM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It all depends, Mike. Even as a teenager, I never really "respected" my elders. Some, however, were worth listening to and taking advice from. I guess you could call that respect.

As an adult, however, the playing field has been leveled. Just because someone is as old as my dad, does not mean they get instant respect out of me. Quite the opposite, as the older a person is, the more I feel they should BE respectable. When they fall short (as is so often the case), they garner nothing but scorn from me.

Respect can also be compartmentalized, in that a person could have decades of experience in a field, or from just living life (ie, could be a genius at fixing cars), but be total idiots when it comes to everything else. Therefore, I'd say that "I respect his opinion on (insert blank)". However, that does not mean that I repect him as a person, ie, the whole package.

Capeche?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#20884 - 02/20/09 07:44 PM Re: Respect [Re: Nemesis]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
That's exactly what my point was. I just can't see why the rest of society teaches kids to respect their elders without reason. It's the same principle with Santa Clause. It's a nice idea, but so full of shit even a 6 year old should be able to tell it's ridiculous. I can't speak for every other kid in society, but I know I sure as hell thought the whole concept was bullshit from a fairly young age. It was always one of those things I would ask an adult about and their only answer would be "because I told you so". Now that I'm older I'm starting to realize that the majority of people just go with the flow rather than questioning all of the stupidity in society. If it weren't for the very few who do question or protest and try to change things for the better of society, we'd all just be pre-programmed robots stuck in a never ending cycle of ridiculousness until we die. This must be that "real world" people keep talking about.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#20897 - 02/20/09 09:18 PM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
I agree with everything that has been said so far.

Respect should be reciprocal, but this is rarely the case. As a matter of courtesy, I am generally respectful to those that I meet, but if they either show none in return, or in any other way reveal themselves to be unworthy of respect, then I show them none. I may still be polite, cordial even, but I do not defer to them like I might have previously, even if they happen to be in a position of authority.

Case in point, from my own experience, which also ties into the whole "respect for one's elders" concept:

I attend a fairly prestigious conservatory of music; prestige, unfortunately, is not without its pricetag. I pay the same amount of tuition as everybody else (at least that's something; they rip everyone off equally), and believe me, it is exorbitant. However, I've begun to question whether it has really been worth it; the facilities are antiquated (part of the place's charm, granted, but outdated from a practical point of view), and there are a limited number of practice rooms, the majority of which are "piano priority" rooms, which means if you are in the practice room, and a pianist needs the room, you must yield it to them. So, being fortunate enough to play an instrument which is not only portable, but suitable to play indoors, we guitarists seek out alternative places to practice when there are no available practice rooms, like outside in the plaza during Spring and Summer when the weather is more agreeable, or in the lounge, or in the cafeteria.

Now, to my point. My friend and I were in the cafeteria one afternoon having lunch and talking, and he begins to tell me about a piece he has been learning to play. I am unfamiliar with the piece, so he gets his guitar out and begins to play it for me to demonstrate. At the table behind us, some members of the faculty and staff were seated. He gets a few bars into the piece, and one of the female staff/faculty turns around in her chair staring daggers into my friend's back, and proceeds to tell him (in a less than respectful manner) that we were not in a practice room, they (the faculty) were trying to have lunch, and that they were not to be serenaded.

This was just one incident; we guitarists are chased out of everywhere that is not a practice room, regardless of whether there are any available at the time. We are told by faculty, low-level sycophants, as well as campus security officers. Ever since that day, and looking back on all of the times I myself have been told to move along, I have lost respect for most of the staff and faculty (especially with the way she comported herself) and, therefore, the place itself.

This is a school of music, a place to not only study music, but to engage in practical application of that study i.e. playing music; I pay the salaries of all of those on the faculty, and I pay for the use of the facilities so, in essence, I own the faculty, as well as a little piece of the place while I am there. So, I ask you this: am I the asshole? Were we in the wrong? It is my opinion that if these people are trying to get away from music in a school of music, then they are in the wrong place by setting even one toe across the threshold. Out of all the noise in a cafeteria, these people would rather silence the beauty of music rather than the din of conversation. It is counterproductive, is it not, to stop us from doing what we go there to do in the first place?

I apologize for the long-winded rant, but I am still pretty steamed about the whole thing. I feel like my time there has been wasted by these useless people who seem to have forgotten their place as my bitches.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

Top
#20918 - 02/21/09 12:16 AM Re: Respect [Re: Draculesti]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Most "kids" are just that. Kids. Even the most intelligent or streetwise kids don't often deserve the same respect that comes from the life experience an average "elder" has. Most people do not really learn how to conduct themselves with anything that gets close to deserving respect until they have "lived" a little. That happens for everyone at a different age and for lots of people never at all. But it only comes with age. No one pops out of their momma deserving respect.

That said, "elders" (anyone older than you by more than a few years) usually have more experience than you do. What they have done with that experience is entirely an individual matter. Do some elders deserve your respect? That's up to you.

I'd put it this way. Disrespect your elders at your own risk. Those who deserved your respect will see you for the inexperienced silly child you've acted like, and those that didn't deserve it in the first place won't know the difference. I know this is a hard concept if you have to ask the question in the first place, but it's something some people never get, while other people have to live through certain experiences before they can "get it". There are those who just get respect but that's another subject entirely and very few people "command" respect naturally. (Though alot of those that do could likely be Satanists or have a Satanic nature).

Give respect carefully, it's easily misused and often confused with other feelings, like love or admiration, or dislike and fear. These are not respect. Don't delude yourself and think because you may be a little smarter than the average kid that you have nothing to lose by disrespecting your elders, or nothing to gain by giving some up.

And to the OP. Take notice of friends your age one day and count how many of them "deseerve your respect". Then look around at your elders and honestly count how many of them "deserve your respect". Then ask yourself this question again \:\)

p.s. While I realize it may feel like major suckage to be told to "respect your elders" as a young person (and I didn't have much respect for most of them when I was a kid), I did reserve respect for those who deserved it and that served me well.


Edited by Master Magick (02/21/09 12:23 AM)
Edit Reason: added ps
_________________________
Magick

Top
#20921 - 02/21/09 02:01 AM Re: Respect [Re: Master Magick]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Age should have nothing to do with respect. People's life experience doesn't have anything to do with age. I have met people that were the biggest shut ins while they were growing up which led them to having no experience in anything. What respect do they deserve? NONE.

Respect is given to those that deserve it. Responsibility to the responsible. I have more respect for some young people more then I do for elders for the fact that times have changed since the elders have grown up, and the younger person(s) have learned more about life then the elder.

Age is only a number nothing more nothing less. Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.

So do I think that respect be automaticly given to elders? No. If they prove themselves worthy of such respect they get the respect but until then they mean nothing.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

Top
#20925 - 02/21/09 02:51 AM Re: Respect [Re: Ringmaster]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Read again. Rinse. Repeat.
_________________________
Magick

Top
#20932 - 02/21/09 04:07 AM Re: Respect [Re: Master Magick]
Ringmaster Offline
member


Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 205
Loc: Salem Oregon
Reply wasn't directed at you I hit the reply button and not quick reply.
_________________________
Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.

Top
#20936 - 02/21/09 04:34 AM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Respecting the elders is a remnant from the days of yore. When you check out tribal groups, you'll notice that respect is still there and it is natural for youngsters to have it. Those old dudes hunted, killed, fucked and defended more and their gathered knowledge, a collection of theirs and their ancestors, which is essential to the survival of the tribe, is passed from them onto the youngsters again. So they get respect for it because they are important.

In our current society it all doesn't mean shit any longer but the suggestion to have respect might well be leftover of this habit of thousands of years. In some ways we still continue the tradition but use different ways to define tribe.

D.

Top
#20941 - 02/21/09 05:42 AM Re: Respect [Re: Diavolo]
ZephyrGirl Offline
R.I.P.
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
The reason respecting your elders still holds on some level, is because until proven otherwise, they do have more experience and have made many a mistake to learn from. You don't have to respect an idiot of any age, but don't judge a book by it's cover.

By showing respect to your elders, until proven that they are not worthy, you will by default garner the respect of other elders, who see your weighing of judgement and not just assuming that you know more or are smarter etc.

So there is a positive to be had from doing it. It's not just all smoke and mirrors.

Zeph
_________________________
Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass -
It's about learning to dance in the rain.


Top
#20949 - 02/21/09 10:09 AM Re: Respect [Re: ZephyrGirl]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
I don't particularly care whether someone respects me or not. I've made my bones and can prove my worth against anyone.

But DISRESPECT me at your own peril, especially if at an arms length from me. I've been known to rip people a new asshole for opening their mouth just a little too much.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#20950 - 02/21/09 12:05 PM Re: Respect [Re: Jake999]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
The concept of respect is flawed in that the general expectance of reciprocation is subjective as well as the context of where it's applied furthering the notions of the matriarchal and patriachal extenuating the social psychological connotations, as well as the fact the concept of respect strangely boarders on that of a protocol, yet remains an accepted opinion subjectivly almost like a paradox...
Top
#20956 - 02/21/09 12:55 PM Re: Respect [Re: Ringmaster]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.


Wow. That one suprised me. Thanks? I don't know how to react to that, but I see your point and do have to agree with it.

I like what D said referring to the tribal concept. In that situation I could see respecting the elders, but only for what they have done. I can't see respecting someone just because of their age. I suppose I, as most here apparently, see this as yet another problem in society that will most likely never be resolved. By that of course I mean bullshit will survive, and the ones who stand against it are too little in number and usually die out with very few even recognizing them for who they were or what they did. It's not just the age/respect thing, it goes for many "traditions" in society. I don't know about you all, but I think society is ready for a real change.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#20958 - 02/21/09 01:53 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: Mike
 Quote:
Mike I'm going to use you as an example. I have more respect for him then I do some of the elder members because he has proved himself in knowledge and the way he holds himself.


Wow. That one suprised me. Thanks? I don't know how to react to that, but I see your point and do have to agree with it.

I like what D said referring to the tribal concept. In that situation I could see respecting the elders, but only for what they have done. I can't see respecting someone just because of their age. I suppose I, as most here apparently, see this as yet another problem in society that will most likely never be resolved. By that of course I mean bullshit will survive, and the ones who stand against it are too little in number and usually die out with very few even recognizing them for who they were or what they did. It's not just the age/respect thing, it goes for many "traditions" in society. I don't know about you all, but I think society is ready for a real change.


I just made that entire argument invalid:

 Originally Posted By: joseph oreilly
The concept of respect is flawed in that the general expectance of reciprocation is subjective as well as the context of where it's applied furthering the notions of the matriarchal and patriachal extenuating the social psychological connotations, as well as the fact the concept of respect strangely boarders on that of a protocol, yet remains an accepted opinion subjectivly almost like a paradox...

Top
#20960 - 02/21/09 02:03 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3117
Joseph..
Really, shut up... You didn't made it invalid, you agreed with it.
What you have written in your language is basically the same as mike said...
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#20962 - 02/21/09 02:18 PM Re: Respect [Re: Dimitri]
joseph oreilly Offline
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
Joseph..
Really, shut up... You didn't made it invalid, you agreed with it.
What you have written in your language is basically the same as mike said...


I'm saying respect is wrong, it doesn't work as an idea, mike says the opposite of that by relating it to other concepts.

Top
#20963 - 02/21/09 02:22 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3117
And why do you think it is wrong?
Honestly I don't see any problems with it in any context since respect is to be earned and not given away..
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#20968 - 02/21/09 04:29 PM Re: Respect [Re: Mike]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
As a general rule, respect must be earned. However, as a general rule, it is pointless act like a douche just because someone has not 'earned' your respect.

Acting like a gentleman is becoming a lost art - especially among your age group. Everyone one seems to be too busy acting 'gangsta.' Now, I understand that 'niggaz', 'bitches' and 'hoes' play an important part of life in current youth culture. Primarily, that is because 99.9% of all 'youths' are, in fact, 'punk-as-bitches.' It is this 'bitchassness' that is cause of nearly all strife in this age group. It is also an unnecessary burden placed upon the rest of society. From time to time us 'elders' like to go out to dinner and the movies with our families and not have to deal with the bitchassness of other people's children.

If you are truly interested on the subject of respect, I would recommend reading the "Hagakure." It is full of manly lessons that your generation is in desperate need of. Also, look for someone in your area that is teaching traditional Judo or Ju-Jitsu. After a few classes you will begin to understand how this whole respect thing works.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#20969 - 02/21/09 04:43 PM Re: Respect [Re: Fist]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3117
 Quote:
Acting like a gentleman is becoming a lost art - especially among your age group. Everyone one seems to be too busy acting 'gangsta.' Now, I understand that 'niggaz', 'bitches' and 'hoes' play an important part of life in current youth culture. Primarily, that is because 99.9% of all 'youths' are, in fact, 'punk-as-bitches.' It is this 'bitchassness' that is cause of nearly all strife in this age group.

The "gangsta" thing is actually just a period, tough I never acted as one, after this they mostly get sobered up when confronted with real life and when they stop living with their parents and start learning they should take life at their hands and all their deeds have consequences...

Next to the book "Hagakure" Fist recommended I'd also recommend the site "Art of manliness". They have some fine articles for behaving properly. I learned a lot from it and daily use some the information they provided. Altough, some things might seem a bit "far-fetched" and "uncool", they certainly will help you for succeeding in life and on business. Next to understanding respect it is also important how to show respect and how to achieve it by your own actions.


Edited by Dimitri (02/21/09 04:45 PM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#20972 - 02/21/09 07:30 PM Re: Respect [Re: joseph oreilly]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
I'm saying respect is wrong, it doesn't work as an idea, mike says the opposite of that by relating it to other concepts.


Respect itself is wrong? If you live your life without respect for anything or anyone and expect no one to have respect for you either, then your argument may be valid. But if you have no respect for anything and expect anything other than people treating you like the trash you are for respecting nothing, not even yourself, just wait and see how you're treated. I would imagine you would be treated even worse than you are on here, and if you ask me, people are being overly tolerant of your bullshit rants and irrational arguments. Respect is wrong...? Just listen to how that sounds. Don't expect respect from anyone if that's what you truly believe, especially on here. I think you've just proved to all of us here that you don't deserve any respect. So hey, your feelings toward respect actually are right....For you anyway.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#20973 - 02/21/09 07:32 PM Re: Respect [Re: Fist]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
As a general rule, respect must be earned. However, as a general rule, it is pointless act like a douche just because someone has not 'earned' your respect.


Agreed. But if someone shows disrespect to me, or earns my disrespect, however that may happen, I believe I have every right to act like a douche.


Edited by Mike (02/21/09 07:33 PM)
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#21016 - 02/22/09 03:23 PM Re: Respect [Re: Dimitri]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Respect carries with it great weight, for me. It's the end all, be all, and can only be earned. It's the gate keeper to other virtues, such as, courage-pride-values. But, I've grown a large amount in the last two decades which dictates respect as central. No more do I go around loving people unconditionally irregardless of what they've done. Whether they've lied, cheated, or possessed uncontrollable greed; you're torched. Those are three problems which I don't care anymore for. Also, love doesn't exist in my repetoir of principles, but repect remains undaunted.

The being of nature on top (SATAN) views everything in terms of respect, an admiration of achievments. Everyone that goes against His will be warned. He'll show no mercy, and destroy you.

After all, one is deemed worthy or unworthy from their actions.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#21057 - 02/23/09 04:36 PM Re: Respect [Re: paolo sette]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
The being of nature on top (SATAN) views everything in terms of respect, an admiration of achievments. Everyone that goes against His will be warned. He'll show no mercy, and destroy you.


Do you say that literally or metaphorically? Just wondering. It sounds as though you're saying Satan (as a being) is the top of the food chain and it's him, not the individual, that decides who and what is worthy of respect. However you can turn that around to mean that Satan, a metaphor for ones superego, is what determines who and what deserves respect and in turn meaning it is the individual that determines if something is worthy of their respect.

 Quote:
After all, one is deemed worthy or unworthy from their actions.


Worthy of respect or a pat on the back from Satan? This goes with my last question.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#21068 - 02/23/09 11:44 PM Re: Respect [Re: Dimitri]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
My oldest child, now 20, thinks he knows everything and walks on water. He has a mouth on him that will not shut up. He has lost a job thanks to it. He irks me and his mom every time we try to impart some life lesson on him. I have told him 1000 times, that mouth will get him in trouble. This is the real world now. When you were 16 it was one thing. But now, that mouth will get you fired, shunned, hurt, or in a pine box. Go to a bar, when you are 21, and fuck around and mouth off to that member of the Pagans or Banditos sitting next to you, and see if you don't wake up in the ICU(if you wake up). In one ear and out the other. After all, we are his parents. We don't know shit. We are just old fools that don't know the times. Well, today I got the pleasure of sitting in court while my son was arraigned for marijauna possession, minor in possession of alcohol and ASSAULTING A POLICE OFFICER. I have no doubt the last charge was a result of him running his fucking mouth and showing NO RESPECT, when he should have. He could have been issued a simple summons to appear and gotten some community service and some sober time. No, now he faces a felony rap. He has no job, sucks off our tit, and is locked up in jail crying for us to post bail. Man up tough guy. Make some new friends. Sometimes respect has to be earned. Or sometimes lack of respect will find you in a pine box or clenching your ass cheeks when taking a shower. There are plenty of people that demand respect out there just by their accomplishments. And when some snot nosed brat points the middle finger at them, which this current crop of piss ants seems to be more than willing to do, they will find out the hard way.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

Top
#21071 - 02/24/09 02:58 AM Re: Respect [Re: fakepropht]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3117
 Quote:
After all, we are his parents. We don't know shit. We are just old fools that don't know the times.

Somehow I recognize myself in this part from a few years before... not that odd I guess...
 Quote:
Well, today I got the pleasure of sitting in court while my son was arraigned for marijauna possession, minor in possession of alcohol and ASSAULTING A POLICE OFFICER. I have no doubt the last charge was a result of him running his fucking mouth and showing NO RESPECT, when he should have. He could have been issued a simple summons to appear and gotten some community service and some sober time. No, now he faces a felony rap. He has no job, sucks off our tit, and is locked up in jail crying for us to post bail.

Ouch.. well at my home they would actually let me rot away untill I had learned my lesson and came back home decently with a nice job and my apologies... maybe worth a try.. altough I can imagine being a parent it wouldn't be easy to do so.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
paolo sette:

 Quote:
But, I've grown a large amount in the last two decades which dictates respect as central. No more do I go around loving people unconditionally irregardless of what they've done. Whether they've lied, cheated, or possessed uncontrollable greed; you're torched. Those are three problems which I don't care anymore for. Also, love doesn't exist in my repetoir of principles, but repect remains undaunted.

Love is also a form of respect, only taken to an higher (highest?) level..
I wish you good luck with not loving people who lied, cheated or had uncontrollable greed. Everyone does these 3 things, denying them is lying to yourself in the first place. I recommend you to read 'On the Decay of the Art of Lying' of Mark Twain...

To quote directly:
 Quote:
Among other common lies, we have the _silent_ lie--the deception which one conveys by simply keeping still and concealing the truth. Many obstinate truth-mongers indulge in this dissipation, imagining that if they _speak_ no lie, they lie not at all. In that far country where I once lived, there was a lovely spirit, a lady whose impulses were always high and pure, and whose character answered to them. One day I was there at dinner, and remarked, in a general way, that we are all liars. She was amazed, and said, "Not _all_?" It was before "Pinafore's" time. so I did not make the response which would naturally follow in our day, but frankly said, "Yes, _all_--we are all liars. There are no exceptions." She looked almost offended, "Why, do you include _me_?" "Certainly," I said. "I think you even rank as an expert." She said "Sh-'sh! the children!" So the subject was changed in deference to the children's presence, and we went on talking about other things. But as soon as the young people were out of the way, the lady came warmly back to the matter and said, "I have made a rule of my life to never tell a lie; and I have never departed from it in a single instance." I said, "I don't mean the least harm or disrespect, but really you have been lying like smoke ever since I've been sitting here. It has caused me a good deal of pain, because I'm not used to it." She required of me an instance--just a single instance. So I said--

"Well, here is the unfilled duplicate of the blank, which the Oakland hospital people sent to you by the hand of the sick-nurse when she came here to nurse your little nephew through his dangerous illness.

This blank asks all manners of questions as to the conduct of that sick-nurse: 'Did she ever sleep on her watch? Did she ever forget to give the medicine?' and so forth and so on. You are warned to be very careful and explicit in your answers, for the welfare of the service requires that the nurses be promptly fined or otherwise punished for derelictions. You told me you were perfectly delighted with this nurse--that she had a thousand perfections and only one fault: you found you never could depend on her wrapping Johnny up half sufficiently while he waited in a chilly chair for her to rearrange the warm bed. You filled up the duplicate of this paper, and sent it back to the hospital by the hand of the nurse. How did you answer this question--'Was the nurse at any time guilty of a negligence which was likely to result in the patient's taking cold?' Come--everything is decided by a bet here in California: ten dollars to ten cents you lied when you answered that question." She said, "I didn't; _I left it blank!_" "Just so--you have told a _silent_ lie; you have left it to be inferred that you had no fault to find in that matter." She said, "Oh, was that a lie? And _how_ could I mention her one single fault, and she is so good?--It would have been cruel." I said, "One ought always to lie, when one can do good by it; your impulse was right, but your judgment was crude; this comes of unintelligent practice. Now observe the results of this inexpert deflection of yours. You know Mr. Jones's Willie is lying very low with scarlet-fever; well, your recommendation was so enthusiastic that that girl is there nursing him, and the worn-out family have all been trustingly sound asleep for the last fourteen hours, leaving their darling with full confidence in those fatal hands, because you, like young George Washington, have a reputa-- However, if you are not going to have anything to do, I will come around to-morrow and we'll attend the funeral together, for, of course, you'll naturally feel a peculiar interest in Willie's case--as personal a one, in fact, as the undertaker."

But that was not all lost. Before I was half-way through she was in a carriage and making thirty miles an hour toward the Jones mansion to save what was left of Willie and tell all she knew about the deadly nurse. All of which was unnecessary, as Willie wasn't sick; I had been lying myself. But that same day, all the same, she sent a line to the hospital which filled up the neglected blank, and stated the _facts,_ too, in the squarest possible manner.

Now, you see, this lady's fault was _not_ in lying, but in lying injudiciously. She should have told the truth, _there,_ and made it up to the nurse with a fraudulent compliment further along in the paper. She could have said, "In one respect this sick-nurse is perfection--when she is on the watch, she never snores." Almost any little pleasant lie would have taken the sting out of that troublesome but necessary expression of the truth.

Lying is universal--we _all_ do it.


full article: http://mark-twain.classic-literature.co.uk/on-the-decay-of-the-art-of-lying/
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
Page all of 2 12>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.042 seconds of which 0.005 seconds were spent on 38 queries. Zlib compression disabled.