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#21367 - 03/01/09 08:34 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

Satanist is just a label that describes what I naturally am.
In that case why not call yourself "human"? I take it from this that you believe you were born with a different nature to most people (who don't consider themselves to be satanists).

Let's say I came to you and I asked you to tell me what Satanism has to offer me. How would you "sell" Satanism? Or would you say, it's either in your nature or it's not?

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

-Satanism deals entirely with the here and now. since I find the whole idea of a soul ridiculous, this jives with me.

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism? Presumably some forms of Satanism recognize the existence of spirits?

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

I could go on, but if I haven't gotten through to you yet I doubt you are listening.
I hear you.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21368 - 03/01/09 08:39 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3882
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Or would you say, it's either in your nature or it's not?

Exactly.
Satanists are born, not made.
Satanism does not seek converts. In fact, most of us actively discourage people that obviously don't belong.

 Quote:

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism?

Negative.

Satanism, by it's very nature, is atheistic(from a cosmological perspective, anyway) Theistic Satanism is an oxymoron.
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#21369 - 03/01/09 09:15 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
How would you "sell" satanism?


We don't. If you find someone trying to 'sell' you on Satanism then you can be sure that you are not talking to a Satanist.

The Satanic Bible simply affirms things that the initiate already believes. Also read "Might is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard. If you read it and find yourself in reflexive agreement then you are most likely a Satanist. If you do not, then you are not. Just walk away and find something else.

However, I would always caution the initiate to not embrace Satanism too quickly. Ground yourself first in your own identity and beliefs. To this end, I offer you Books of the Left Hand Path.


Edited by Fist (03/01/09 09:16 PM)
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21372 - 03/01/09 09:51 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
This is the reason I kept Lux around for as long as we could stand, so he could present all of his arguments to us. We already have threads presenting arguments both for and against Satanism and Christianity, by Satanists/LHPers and Christians.

Creationist Nonsense

Modern Satanism, isn't it just...

The Satanic Bible

Sister Emmanuelle

Ichtus, please do us a favor and read through these threads before asking any more questions of us. Some of the threads I've given as examples are lengthy, but there is a good chance that you'll find the answers to your questions.

I'm not necessarily being rude in my abruptness here, but most of us just really hate repeating ourselves verbatim, over and over again.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#21373 - 03/01/09 10:15 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity? The charlatans and thieves who have stolen millions from the aged and the needy? The televangelists who collect millions while being the best examples of evil on earth... Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and that is only the short list. Or the pedophile priests of Catholicism. We could go on and on.

The reason they are here is because it's easy. They can come and act as if they are superior to the lowly Satanists... actually, they're cowards.

It would take GUTS to go into the dens of evil in their own camp and stand up to those who rape the poor and needy, sodomize children and perpetuate every kind of evil that they purport to hate. They would also have to come face to face with the undeniable truth that in supporting such a cesspool of moral decrepitude, they bear responsibility for each and every convert that they bring into the morass of iniquity they call Christianity. Yes, they ARE guilty, because in knowing the wickedness of their own leaders, and still inviting those who are not tainted by the corruption of Christianity, they bear the unforgivable stain of bringing their own to the altar to be preyed upon... and that includes their own families and children.

And we're "evil?"

I gave up trying to defend anything we are on our worst day to these people. First stones... seems like they like to cast them, but they live in the ultimate glass houses.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#21374 - 03/01/09 10:32 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
 Originally Posted By: Ichtus
 Originally Posted By: Grandpabeast
Personally, I came over to the 'dark side' for the free cookies and hot chocolate! Seriously though, I don't see it as a dark side, it is more a matter of embracing my true nature and no longer being a sheeple or slave of hypocrisy or illogical, irrational fantasies. You are free to believe as you do and I will defend your right to do so, I would just ask for the same respect from you. Also your Christian perspective on Satanism and mine or others here most likely vary greatly. Satanism isn't what the preachers and Hollywood make it out to be. JMO...

Roger.

Thanks for your helpful reply Roger. May I ask then, what is your true nature?

P.S. Does anyone know if there's a "multi-quote" feature on this forum? i.e. can I reply to multiple posts in one post?


My true nature is who I am. I am a a carnal animal, a bit higher on the food chain and evolutionarily endowed with thought, reason and logic. My true nature is doing what I know in my being is right, not having to listen to others rules and morals. My true nature is knowing that the only person I truly have to please or measure up to is myself. My true nature is to defend myself, those I love and those who are deserving of defense. My true nature doesn't care for permission or forgiveness. My true nature celebrates life and carnality, it doesn't shackle me with false guilt, shame and cosmic rules. I didn't seek out Satanism, it found me and it clicked as to "This is me!" I am not ashamed of nor will I deny who and what I am. I could go on for a long time but I feel this will suffice for now.


Roger.
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#21380 - 03/02/09 03:26 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
It does... read the SB and be honest to yourself..
Aren't their pieces of text you actually want to agree with but don't want to because "It is against gods will?"

Next one...
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#21381 - 03/02/09 03:35 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Engel08 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
The desire to obtain a sense of balance in knowing ones shadow and causal nature.
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"Drink to me"

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#21384 - 03/02/09 09:38 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

 Quote:

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism?

Negative.

Satanism, by it's very nature, is atheistic(from a cosmological perspective, anyway) Theistic Satanism is an oxymoron.

But there are people who believe in Satan/demons and invoke him/them to gain power etc. Isn't that true?

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
This is the reason I kept Lux around for as long as we could stand, so he could present all of his arguments to us. We already have threads presenting arguments both for and against Satanism and Christianity, by Satanists/LHPers and Christians.

Creationist Nonsense

Modern Satanism, isn't it just...

The Satanic Bible

Sister Emmanuelle

Ichtus, please do us a favor and read through these threads before asking any more questions of us. Some of the threads I've given as examples are lengthy, but there is a good chance that you'll find the answers to your questions.

I'm not necessarily being rude in my abruptness here, but most of us just really hate repeating ourselves verbatim, over and over again.

Thanks Nemesis. Believe me I appreciate how frustrating it can be trying to explain one's beliefs!

I'm not a creationist, I don't believe the world was created in 6 days. That just flies in the face of the scientific evidence. But I do believe that God created the universe...

Before I posted in this forum, I was under the impression that the majority of satanist believe in an actual fallen angel called Satan (formerly Lucifer). I'm surprised to learn that Satanism, as understood in this forum, is primarily atheistic.

I've had numerous debates with atheists over the last couple of years and I've gotten to learn many of the pit-falls that arise in debates so I'm not going to start a debate in reasons to believe in God unless asked to.

I'm here to understand Satanism while attempting to leave pre-conceived notions outside the door. There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide. You guys have studied Satanism and I've studied Christianity so I'll defend my beliefs if they're misrepresented.

 Originally Posted By: Jake999

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity? The charlatans and thieves who have stolen millions from the aged and the needy? The televangelists who collect millions while being the best examples of evil on earth... Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and that is only the short list. Or the pedophile priests of Catholicism. We could go on and on.
Yes we could, it's material for another thread really. Briefly what I'll say is that the actions of these people have nothing to do with the message that Jesus taught. I believe they will pay a penalty on judgment day.

Getting back to my original question. I'm told that Satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature? Or do you believe that all people are born with a satanist nature and that society/religion pushes most people into an unnatural state?
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21385 - 03/02/09 10:20 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Satan is used symbolically in our brand of Satanism. There are some "sects" who see Satan as an actual being, but this concept is ridiculous to us. Before Satan was personified as an anthropomorphic being it was a word which meant the adversary.

I was raised a devout Catholic and considered myself a part of the Catholic religion until I was thirteen and began to question organized religion. After that I went around studying various religious beliefs and ideas. I traveled a long path before I finally settled on my current beliefs as a Satanist, so I'm familiar with the concept of religion.

I am a Satanist because I can be nothing else, no matter how hard I tried every other religion I came across eventually discarded itself from me under my scrutiny. Satanism is easy for me to gravitate towards because at the end of the day it is me. I know nothing of a God, all I know is my vital existence in the here and now.

To me Satanism provides me with my primal need for religion but not with the intellectual and emotional dishonesty that comes along with any Judeo-Christian belief system.

Jesus was most likely an allegorical myth, I see no evidence for the existence of a God on Earth, at least not a God as defined in any of mans religions. All I'm certain of is the nature of man and the going on of things in the here and now. Satanism is a religion meant for the Earth, not for things that cannot be verified and must be taken on faith.
_________________________
Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

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#21386 - 03/02/09 10:23 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Firstly, I would like an answer to Jake's question:

 Quote:
If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity?


Why are you here? Why don't you confront the evils in Christianity? Why are you compelled to come meddle with our little band but can so easily turn a blind eye to the failings of your own faith. Really, this does deserve an answer.

And, by the way, bravo for the way Jake poses the question!

 Quote:
There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide.


Wrong, completely wrong. Want to test my knowledge of Christianity? I will eat your lunch. I think in my first post shows I well understand your Bible. It is not that I don't understand Christianity; I simply reject it!

 Quote:
Getting back to my original question. I'm told that satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature?


A good question, and I am not sure science found the answer. Some people are born leaders. Some people are born Alpha pack leaders and some are born to follow. Some people have dominant Type-A personalities and some do not. Why this may be unclear but it is an observable condition that does exist.

In Satanism we encourage people to embrace their true more savage, more carnal nature. Years of Judeo-Christian conditioning seeks to stifle ones true nature and ultimate human potential. In Satanism we encourage people to actually attain their maximum human potential - to live a Vital Existence.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21400 - 03/02/09 01:28 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Fist]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Fist

Why are you here?
Like I said, I'm trying to understand what attracts people to Satanism. Lots of people on this forum were raised in Christian families, they weren't born into Satanism. So obviously they found Satanism attractive in some way or they wouldn't have got involved and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 Originally Posted By: Fist

Why don't you confront the evils in Christianity? Why are you compelled to come meddle with our little band but can so easily turn a blind eye to the failings of your own faith. Really, this does deserve an answer.

I think it's important to distinguish between Christians who commit evil acts and the way of life taught by Jesus i.e Christianity. Jesus didn't teach us to judge others or to rape children, did He? The problem is with people, not the Christian message.

 Originally Posted By: Fist

 Quote:
There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide.

Wrong, completely wrong. Want to test my knowledge of Christianity? I will eat your lunch. I think in my first post shows I well understand your Bible. It is not that I don't understand Christianity; I simply reject it!

We all know that lots of people misunderstand what Satanism is about e.g. assuming that satanists worship Satan.

Are you seriously saying that satanists don't make similar mistakes due to false information or misunderstandings?

 Quote:
Getting back to my original question. I'm told that satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature?


 Originally Posted By: Fist

A good question, and I am not sure science found the answer. Some people are born leaders. Some people are born Alpha pack leaders and some are born to follow. Some people have dominant Type-A personalities and some do not. Why this may be unclear but it is an observable condition that does exist.
The way I would look at it is that different people have different talents. Do you think it's right for people do dominate others against the other's wishes?

 Originally Posted By: Fist

In Satanism we encourage people to embrace their true more savage, more carnal nature. Years of Judeo-Christian conditioning seeks to stifle ones true nature and ultimate human potential. In Satanism we encourage people to actually attain their maximum human potential - to live a Vital Existence.

Why do satanists associate a person's true nature with what I would call base instincts or to use your word, "savage"? I don't see that direction as achieving anything like our real potential.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21402 - 03/02/09 01:45 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think you are confused; we are not attracted to Satanism, Satanism is attracted to us. Even if we'd never met Satanism, we'd unmistakably be satanists.

You live under some old idea that people are the sum of their experiences and that one or more of those experiences set them into a category which can be defined as Christian, or Buddhist or Satanist. Less is true, Satanism is our birthright, it is in our genetic makeup. What probably makes it confusing is the fact that Satanism does attract certain specimens in search of an identity or an intellectual/emotional shelter but overall, they are not regarded as satanists, more as pretenders to the throne.

D.

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#21406 - 03/02/09 02:32 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Diavolo]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I think you are confused; we are not attracted to satanism, satanism is attracted to us.
I don't get that. Satanism is a philosophy. How can an philosophy, which is a set of ideas, be attracted to a person? Ideas must exist in the mind of a person, they don't have independent existence.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
.... it is in our genetic makeup.

Is there evidence that Satanism is passed from generation to generation genetically?
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21407 - 03/02/09 02:39 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Satanism is not as much a philosophy as it is a manner of living. There are many people out there that never heard of Satanism, in the modern form, and still live very satanic lives.
Even when talking about the satanic philosophy, it is nothing but a memeplex and every memeplex is attracted like fresh seed to fertile soil, something in which it will flourish and reproduce. Soil seldom goes out looking for seeds.

If you're born with only one leg, does that imply your father also had only one? I think that answers the genetic question.

D.

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