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#21321 - 03/01/09 04:35 PM Why Satanism?
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
Greetings all.

First, I'll be up front with you all by saying that I'm a devoted follower of Jesus Christ. I have no wish to insult anyone and I'm here to try and understand the attraction to Satanism. If I get flamed, that's fine, I'll leave and shake the dust of my feet as they say.

So, I'd like to ask what is it that attracts people to the dark side?

Thanks,
Ichtus.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21324 - 03/01/09 05:03 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

There is no attraction, you simply are a follower or you're not...

Have a nice day...

~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#21325 - 03/01/09 05:23 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:

So, I'd like to ask what is it that attracts people to the dark side?


?

What dark side? What are you talking about?

Now, that being said, if you really came here to learn then you will be treated fairly. However, you must be prepared to defend yourself with logic.

If you are not familiar with how logic works, start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Logical_fallacies

Stories of Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny will get you nowhere.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21327 - 03/01/09 05:53 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Fist]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
It all depends what you mean by 'dark side'

Personally I see devoting yourself to a belief system that enshrines death as something to look forward to, and to view this life as some sort of trial, to be a pretty dark outlook.

I also find the fatalistic idea that we are all puppets to dance for some cosmological super-beings amusement to be pretty dark.

I also find the general view of making subservience and ego suppression a virtue to be very dark.

So Ichtus, what attracts you to the dark side?
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#21328 - 03/01/09 05:53 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Fist]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
Personally, I came over to the 'dark side' for the free cookies and hot chocolate! Seriously though, I don't see it as a dark side, it is more a matter of embracing my true nature and no longer being a sheeple or slave of hypocrisy or illogical, irrational fantasies. You are free to believe as you do and I will defend your right to do so, I would just ask for the same respect from you. Also your Christian perspective on Satanism and mine or others here most likely vary greatly. Satanism isn't what the preachers and Hollywood make it out to be. JMO...


Roger.
_________________________
We can't stop here, this is bat country!

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#21329 - 03/01/09 06:05 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: ta2zz]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

There is no attraction, you simply are a follower or you're not...

Have a nice day...

~T~

Why? People normally become involved in groups/organization because it suits their personal outlook/interests. People usually have a good reason for doing things. Doesn't this apply to Satanism?
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21330 - 03/01/09 06:11 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Fist]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Fist

What dark side? What are you talking about?
You really have no idea what I mean? I'll assume from your reply that you associate Satanism/satan with light.

 Originally Posted By: Fist

Now, that being said, if you really came here to learn then you will be treated fairly. However, you must be prepared to defend yourself with logic.

I'm familiar with logic, thanks.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21332 - 03/01/09 06:19 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


So Ichtus, what attracts you to the dark side?


I'm not attracted to the dark side. I'm trying to understand why Satanism is appealing to people.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21334 - 03/01/09 06:23 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Grandpabeast]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Grandpabeast
Personally, I came over to the 'dark side' for the free cookies and hot chocolate! Seriously though, I don't see it as a dark side, it is more a matter of embracing my true nature and no longer being a sheeple or slave of hypocrisy or illogical, irrational fantasies. You are free to believe as you do and I will defend your right to do so, I would just ask for the same respect from you. Also your Christian perspective on Satanism and mine or others here most likely vary greatly. Satanism isn't what the preachers and Hollywood make it out to be. JMO...

Roger.

Thanks for your helpful reply Roger. May I ask then, what is your true nature?

P.S. Does anyone know if there's a "multi-quote" feature on this forum? i.e. can I reply to multiple posts in one post?
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21335 - 03/01/09 06:30 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: Ichtus
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread


So Ichtus, what attracts you to the dark side?


I'm not attracted to the dark side. I'm trying to understand why satanism is appealing to people.


When you understand why I see your beliefs as dark and undesirable, evil even, then maybe you will have answered your own question.
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#21341 - 03/01/09 06:45 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Yes, Ichtus, it is possible to multi-quote in a reply...simply highlight the text you wish to quote, right-click, copy, paste it in your reply and surround it with [quote][/quote] (or click the little " icon at the top bar in the "Switch to Full Reply" screen) . You can do it as many times as you need. Just make sure that you indicate whose quotes you are replying to, otherwise confusion and hurt feelings will ensue. ;\)
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Nothing is sacred.

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#21363 - 03/01/09 07:36 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

When you understand why I see your beliefs as dark and undesirable, evil even, then maybe you will have answered your own question.

That would involve me making presumptions about you in the way that you presume to know what I believe. I don't want to put words in your mouth.

How is Satanism appealing to you? Is appealing the wrong word?

Feel free to ignore my questions.

Thanks,
Ichtus.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21364 - 03/01/09 07:40 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
Yes, Ichtus, it is possible to multi-quote in a reply...simply highlight the text you wish to quote, right-click, copy, paste it in your reply and surround it with
 Quote:
(or click the little " icon at the top bar in the "Switch to Full Reply" screen) . You can do it as many times as you need. Just make sure that you indicate whose quotes you are replying to, otherwise confusion and hurt feelings will ensue. ;\)

Thanks Nemesis.

In other forums I've seen an icon which you click for every post that you want to reply to. So when you hit "quote" it has all the posts already enclosed in quote tags for you. I thought there might be something similar here.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21365 - 03/01/09 07:42 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Oh dear, I may have my work cut out here....


 Quote:
I'll assume from your reply that you associate satanism/satan with light.


Noooo, your Bible does. Ever hear of this guy called 'Lucifer'? The Morning Star? Sound familiar? No?

How about these?:

"How you have fallen from heaven, O MORNING STAR, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the Earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (Isaiah 14:12-14)


"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright MORNING STAR." (Rev. 22:16)

"And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the MORNING STAR rises in your hearts." (2 Peter 1:19)

"Just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the MORNING STAR." (Rev. 2:27-29)


"After this, Job opened his mouth and cursed the day of his birth. He said: "May the day of my birth perish ... May its MORNING STARS become dark; may it wait for daylight in vain and not see the first rays of dawn, for it did not shut the doors of the womb on me to hide trouble from my eyes." (Job 3:1-10)

"Where were you when I laid the Earth's foundation? ... On what were its footings set, or who laid its cornerstone - while the MORNING STARS sang together and all the angels shouted for joy?" (Job 38:4-7)


I know what your reply will be before you give it. The last Xtian that came here was called Lux. He had a lot of trouble explaining this too. But good luck to you!

It might be worth searching for a few of his posts before going any further. Just a word to the wise...
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21366 - 03/01/09 08:00 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

That would involve me making presumptions about you in the way that you presume to know what I believe

Of course I do. You announced it your very first post. A devout follower of jesus christ, said you.
Unless you are some sort of fringe christian Atheist believer, you are just being dishonest.
 Quote:

How is Satanism appealing to you?

Satanist is just a label that describes what I naturally am.

But to give a few specifics:

-Satanism deals entirely with the here and now. since I find the whole idea of a soul ridiculous, this jives with me.

-Satanism enshrines THIS life above all else, since it's the only one we can actually demonstrate having.

-Satanism is pro-human, seeing man and his natural behaviors as just fine and dandy.

and finally,

-Satanism doesn't rely on any outlandish unproven/unprovable claims to function. It is a religion of the mundane, a temple built to reality as it IS, rather than how some book says it should be.

I could go on, but if I haven't gotten through to you yet I doubt you are listening.
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#21367 - 03/01/09 08:34 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

Satanist is just a label that describes what I naturally am.
In that case why not call yourself "human"? I take it from this that you believe you were born with a different nature to most people (who don't consider themselves to be satanists).

Let's say I came to you and I asked you to tell me what Satanism has to offer me. How would you "sell" Satanism? Or would you say, it's either in your nature or it's not?

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

-Satanism deals entirely with the here and now. since I find the whole idea of a soul ridiculous, this jives with me.

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism? Presumably some forms of Satanism recognize the existence of spirits?

 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

I could go on, but if I haven't gotten through to you yet I doubt you are listening.
I hear you.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21368 - 03/01/09 08:39 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Or would you say, it's either in your nature or it's not?

Exactly.
Satanists are born, not made.
Satanism does not seek converts. In fact, most of us actively discourage people that obviously don't belong.

 Quote:

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism?

Negative.

Satanism, by it's very nature, is atheistic(from a cosmological perspective, anyway) Theistic Satanism is an oxymoron.
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#21369 - 03/01/09 09:15 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
How would you "sell" satanism?


We don't. If you find someone trying to 'sell' you on Satanism then you can be sure that you are not talking to a Satanist.

The Satanic Bible simply affirms things that the initiate already believes. Also read "Might is Right" by Ragnar Redbeard. If you read it and find yourself in reflexive agreement then you are most likely a Satanist. If you do not, then you are not. Just walk away and find something else.

However, I would always caution the initiate to not embrace Satanism too quickly. Ground yourself first in your own identity and beliefs. To this end, I offer you Books of the Left Hand Path.


Edited by Fist (03/01/09 09:16 PM)
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21372 - 03/01/09 09:51 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
This is the reason I kept Lux around for as long as we could stand, so he could present all of his arguments to us. We already have threads presenting arguments both for and against Satanism and Christianity, by Satanists/LHPers and Christians.

Creationist Nonsense

Modern Satanism, isn't it just...

The Satanic Bible

Sister Emmanuelle

Ichtus, please do us a favor and read through these threads before asking any more questions of us. Some of the threads I've given as examples are lengthy, but there is a good chance that you'll find the answers to your questions.

I'm not necessarily being rude in my abruptness here, but most of us just really hate repeating ourselves verbatim, over and over again.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#21373 - 03/01/09 10:15 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity? The charlatans and thieves who have stolen millions from the aged and the needy? The televangelists who collect millions while being the best examples of evil on earth... Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and that is only the short list. Or the pedophile priests of Catholicism. We could go on and on.

The reason they are here is because it's easy. They can come and act as if they are superior to the lowly Satanists... actually, they're cowards.

It would take GUTS to go into the dens of evil in their own camp and stand up to those who rape the poor and needy, sodomize children and perpetuate every kind of evil that they purport to hate. They would also have to come face to face with the undeniable truth that in supporting such a cesspool of moral decrepitude, they bear responsibility for each and every convert that they bring into the morass of iniquity they call Christianity. Yes, they ARE guilty, because in knowing the wickedness of their own leaders, and still inviting those who are not tainted by the corruption of Christianity, they bear the unforgivable stain of bringing their own to the altar to be preyed upon... and that includes their own families and children.

And we're "evil?"

I gave up trying to defend anything we are on our worst day to these people. First stones... seems like they like to cast them, but they live in the ultimate glass houses.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#21374 - 03/01/09 10:32 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
 Originally Posted By: Ichtus
 Originally Posted By: Grandpabeast
Personally, I came over to the 'dark side' for the free cookies and hot chocolate! Seriously though, I don't see it as a dark side, it is more a matter of embracing my true nature and no longer being a sheeple or slave of hypocrisy or illogical, irrational fantasies. You are free to believe as you do and I will defend your right to do so, I would just ask for the same respect from you. Also your Christian perspective on Satanism and mine or others here most likely vary greatly. Satanism isn't what the preachers and Hollywood make it out to be. JMO...

Roger.

Thanks for your helpful reply Roger. May I ask then, what is your true nature?

P.S. Does anyone know if there's a "multi-quote" feature on this forum? i.e. can I reply to multiple posts in one post?


My true nature is who I am. I am a a carnal animal, a bit higher on the food chain and evolutionarily endowed with thought, reason and logic. My true nature is doing what I know in my being is right, not having to listen to others rules and morals. My true nature is knowing that the only person I truly have to please or measure up to is myself. My true nature is to defend myself, those I love and those who are deserving of defense. My true nature doesn't care for permission or forgiveness. My true nature celebrates life and carnality, it doesn't shackle me with false guilt, shame and cosmic rules. I didn't seek out Satanism, it found me and it clicked as to "This is me!" I am not ashamed of nor will I deny who and what I am. I could go on for a long time but I feel this will suffice for now.


Roger.
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We can't stop here, this is bat country!

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#21380 - 03/02/09 03:26 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
It does... read the SB and be honest to yourself..
Aren't their pieces of text you actually want to agree with but don't want to because "It is against gods will?"

Next one...
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#21381 - 03/02/09 03:35 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Engel08 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
The desire to obtain a sense of balance in knowing ones shadow and causal nature.
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"Drink to me"

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#21384 - 03/02/09 09:38 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

 Quote:

Wouldn't that only apply to non-theistic Satanism?

Negative.

Satanism, by it's very nature, is atheistic(from a cosmological perspective, anyway) Theistic Satanism is an oxymoron.

But there are people who believe in Satan/demons and invoke him/them to gain power etc. Isn't that true?

 Originally Posted By: Nemesis
This is the reason I kept Lux around for as long as we could stand, so he could present all of his arguments to us. We already have threads presenting arguments both for and against Satanism and Christianity, by Satanists/LHPers and Christians.

Creationist Nonsense

Modern Satanism, isn't it just...

The Satanic Bible

Sister Emmanuelle

Ichtus, please do us a favor and read through these threads before asking any more questions of us. Some of the threads I've given as examples are lengthy, but there is a good chance that you'll find the answers to your questions.

I'm not necessarily being rude in my abruptness here, but most of us just really hate repeating ourselves verbatim, over and over again.

Thanks Nemesis. Believe me I appreciate how frustrating it can be trying to explain one's beliefs!

I'm not a creationist, I don't believe the world was created in 6 days. That just flies in the face of the scientific evidence. But I do believe that God created the universe...

Before I posted in this forum, I was under the impression that the majority of satanist believe in an actual fallen angel called Satan (formerly Lucifer). I'm surprised to learn that Satanism, as understood in this forum, is primarily atheistic.

I've had numerous debates with atheists over the last couple of years and I've gotten to learn many of the pit-falls that arise in debates so I'm not going to start a debate in reasons to believe in God unless asked to.

I'm here to understand Satanism while attempting to leave pre-conceived notions outside the door. There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide. You guys have studied Satanism and I've studied Christianity so I'll defend my beliefs if they're misrepresented.

 Originally Posted By: Jake999

Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity? The charlatans and thieves who have stolen millions from the aged and the needy? The televangelists who collect millions while being the best examples of evil on earth... Rex Humbard, Oral Roberts, Jim and Tammy Bakker, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard, and that is only the short list. Or the pedophile priests of Catholicism. We could go on and on.
Yes we could, it's material for another thread really. Briefly what I'll say is that the actions of these people have nothing to do with the message that Jesus taught. I believe they will pay a penalty on judgment day.

Getting back to my original question. I'm told that Satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature? Or do you believe that all people are born with a satanist nature and that society/religion pushes most people into an unnatural state?
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21385 - 03/02/09 10:20 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Satan is used symbolically in our brand of Satanism. There are some "sects" who see Satan as an actual being, but this concept is ridiculous to us. Before Satan was personified as an anthropomorphic being it was a word which meant the adversary.

I was raised a devout Catholic and considered myself a part of the Catholic religion until I was thirteen and began to question organized religion. After that I went around studying various religious beliefs and ideas. I traveled a long path before I finally settled on my current beliefs as a Satanist, so I'm familiar with the concept of religion.

I am a Satanist because I can be nothing else, no matter how hard I tried every other religion I came across eventually discarded itself from me under my scrutiny. Satanism is easy for me to gravitate towards because at the end of the day it is me. I know nothing of a God, all I know is my vital existence in the here and now.

To me Satanism provides me with my primal need for religion but not with the intellectual and emotional dishonesty that comes along with any Judeo-Christian belief system.

Jesus was most likely an allegorical myth, I see no evidence for the existence of a God on Earth, at least not a God as defined in any of mans religions. All I'm certain of is the nature of man and the going on of things in the here and now. Satanism is a religion meant for the Earth, not for things that cannot be verified and must be taken on faith.
_________________________
Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

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#21386 - 03/02/09 10:23 AM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Firstly, I would like an answer to Jake's question:

 Quote:
If the fish wants to do some real good, why are they not out trying to correct the cancers inside of Christianity?


Why are you here? Why don't you confront the evils in Christianity? Why are you compelled to come meddle with our little band but can so easily turn a blind eye to the failings of your own faith. Really, this does deserve an answer.

And, by the way, bravo for the way Jake poses the question!

 Quote:
There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide.


Wrong, completely wrong. Want to test my knowledge of Christianity? I will eat your lunch. I think in my first post shows I well understand your Bible. It is not that I don't understand Christianity; I simply reject it!

 Quote:
Getting back to my original question. I'm told that satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature?


A good question, and I am not sure science found the answer. Some people are born leaders. Some people are born Alpha pack leaders and some are born to follow. Some people have dominant Type-A personalities and some do not. Why this may be unclear but it is an observable condition that does exist.

In Satanism we encourage people to embrace their true more savage, more carnal nature. Years of Judeo-Christian conditioning seeks to stifle ones true nature and ultimate human potential. In Satanism we encourage people to actually attain their maximum human potential - to live a Vital Existence.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#21400 - 03/02/09 01:28 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Fist]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Fist

Why are you here?
Like I said, I'm trying to understand what attracts people to Satanism. Lots of people on this forum were raised in Christian families, they weren't born into Satanism. So obviously they found Satanism attractive in some way or they wouldn't have got involved and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 Originally Posted By: Fist

Why don't you confront the evils in Christianity? Why are you compelled to come meddle with our little band but can so easily turn a blind eye to the failings of your own faith. Really, this does deserve an answer.

I think it's important to distinguish between Christians who commit evil acts and the way of life taught by Jesus i.e Christianity. Jesus didn't teach us to judge others or to rape children, did He? The problem is with people, not the Christian message.

 Originally Posted By: Fist

 Quote:
There are misunderstanding on both side of the divide.

Wrong, completely wrong. Want to test my knowledge of Christianity? I will eat your lunch. I think in my first post shows I well understand your Bible. It is not that I don't understand Christianity; I simply reject it!

We all know that lots of people misunderstand what Satanism is about e.g. assuming that satanists worship Satan.

Are you seriously saying that satanists don't make similar mistakes due to false information or misunderstandings?

 Quote:
Getting back to my original question. I'm told that satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature?


 Originally Posted By: Fist

A good question, and I am not sure science found the answer. Some people are born leaders. Some people are born Alpha pack leaders and some are born to follow. Some people have dominant Type-A personalities and some do not. Why this may be unclear but it is an observable condition that does exist.
The way I would look at it is that different people have different talents. Do you think it's right for people do dominate others against the other's wishes?

 Originally Posted By: Fist

In Satanism we encourage people to embrace their true more savage, more carnal nature. Years of Judeo-Christian conditioning seeks to stifle ones true nature and ultimate human potential. In Satanism we encourage people to actually attain their maximum human potential - to live a Vital Existence.

Why do satanists associate a person's true nature with what I would call base instincts or to use your word, "savage"? I don't see that direction as achieving anything like our real potential.
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1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21402 - 03/02/09 01:45 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think you are confused; we are not attracted to Satanism, Satanism is attracted to us. Even if we'd never met Satanism, we'd unmistakably be satanists.

You live under some old idea that people are the sum of their experiences and that one or more of those experiences set them into a category which can be defined as Christian, or Buddhist or Satanist. Less is true, Satanism is our birthright, it is in our genetic makeup. What probably makes it confusing is the fact that Satanism does attract certain specimens in search of an identity or an intellectual/emotional shelter but overall, they are not regarded as satanists, more as pretenders to the throne.

D.

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#21406 - 03/02/09 02:32 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Diavolo]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
I think you are confused; we are not attracted to satanism, satanism is attracted to us.
I don't get that. Satanism is a philosophy. How can an philosophy, which is a set of ideas, be attracted to a person? Ideas must exist in the mind of a person, they don't have independent existence.

 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
.... it is in our genetic makeup.

Is there evidence that Satanism is passed from generation to generation genetically?
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1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21407 - 03/02/09 02:39 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Satanism is not as much a philosophy as it is a manner of living. There are many people out there that never heard of Satanism, in the modern form, and still live very satanic lives.
Even when talking about the satanic philosophy, it is nothing but a memeplex and every memeplex is attracted like fresh seed to fertile soil, something in which it will flourish and reproduce. Soil seldom goes out looking for seeds.

If you're born with only one leg, does that imply your father also had only one? I think that answers the genetic question.

D.

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#21408 - 03/02/09 03:18 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Like I said, I'm trying to understand what attracts people to satanism. Lots of people on this forum were raised in Christian families, they weren't born into satanism. So obviously they found satanism attractive in some way or they wouldn't have got involved and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Those of us for whom Satanism or the LHP (Left Hand Path) is a way of life and not a "fad", 99% of us got to this point in our lives by questioning the status quo. This led to research, which led to more questions, all of which either went unanswered by Christianity or the answers themselves were insufficient (ie, lacked logic, mere speculation presented as facts, hypocrisy, etc). As our questions became more complex, the more we needed to know, and the harder the obscure information was to find. As each bit of information was absorbed, the closer it brought us to self-realization, and the path we'd set foot on years ago revealed its name: The Left Hand Path.

Now, some of us skipped a lot of the research and small steps, we started researching Satanism after we realized that mere Atheism was as insufficient to describe us as Christianity was. Upon reading texts such as "The Satanic Bible" and other works by La Vey, it dawned upon us how alike our personal philosophies were compared to those of Satanism.

Now, those who turn to Satanism in the midst of rebellion (and it can happen at any age, but it's usually in the teenage years) are the ones who tend to wear it as a fad, and these people are jokes and posers, not to be taken seriously.

 Quote:
Are you seriously saying that satanists don't make similar mistakes due to false information or misunderstandings?

As I mentioned above, most of us got here by research. I myself have pored over the Bible numerous times, and each time I'm struck anew by the sheer hypocrisy and mindless bloodthirstiness of this God you've pledged your souls to. Unless you consider the Bible--the only proof of the existence of your Savior--"false information"?

 Quote:
Do you think it's right for people do dominate others against the other's wishes?

Absolutely, especially if it benefits the dominating group. Whether it be for resources, labor, oil, whatever.

 Quote:
Why do satanists associate a person's true nature with what I would call base instincts or to use your word, "savage"? I don't see that direction as achieving anything like our real potential.

Ah, but see? You're displaying the typical Christian view of "I know what's best for others" with your last statement. You said "OUR real potential". Who are you to place ME in YOUR category? For that matter, who are you to assume you know what's best for humanity? It always comes down to this.
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#21409 - 03/02/09 03:39 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Nemesis]
Rig Offline
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Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
 Originally Posted By: Nemesis

As I mentioned above, most of us got here by research. I myself have pored over the Bible numerous times, and each time I'm struck anew by the sheer hypocrisy and mindless bloodthirstiness of this God you've pledged your souls to. Unless you consider the Bible--the only proof of the existence of your Savior--"false information"?


You're right about the violence and hypocrisy in the bible; I'm always amused when Christians ask where my morals come from, if not the Bible. I wouldn't want to associate with anyone who truly culls their moral philosophy from that book, because such a person would be a terrible person indeed. But there's another thing that strikes me about the Bible: its numerous contradictions. Read with an open-mind, I don't see how anyone could take such an erroneous book seriously. Unfortunately, with indoctrination into religion at such a young age, it seems to me that there are few who will ever question the religion of their parents.

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#21410 - 03/02/09 04:10 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Rig]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Most Christians haven't even read the Bible. And what they do know from it is second hand information that they get from people which is usually only the positive things.

Funny how they always ignore the mass murders rapes and other atrocities done in God's name in the "good book."
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#21411 - 03/02/09 04:57 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Engel08]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:
But there are people who believe in Satan/demons and invoke him/them to gain power etc. Isn't that true?

Yes, there are all sorts of nuts out there. The devil, demons, and all that Jazz is a part of your religion, not mine. I would call those people heretical christians.

In Satanism, Satan is a concept at times, an archetype at others. A representation of man's potential and a celebration of man as an animal.

Satan as the adversary to all forms of mysticism and faith, to all beliefs that condemn man for being as he is.

Including devil worship!

Here is a little secret for you: Most Satanists dislike devil worshipers more than you do.


And as for misunderstanding christianity I would like to echo what many have already said;do not assume that because you come here ignorant of the specifics of Satanism we should also be ignorant of the specifics of christianity. I myself are intimately familiar with the bible at a level that most christians will never attain. I still read from mine a few times a week.
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#21416 - 03/02/09 06:28 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1647
Loc: Orlando, FL
But there are people who believe in Satan/demons and invoke him/them to gain power etc. Isn't that true?

Yes, and they are all nutcases who draw from the same ideas of "faith" as Christians. (although most Christians are excusable, since they're usually raised that way and don't know any better) They are white sheep painting themselves black. Lucifer/Satan is the adversarial force that compels us to "become as gods" and to behold no spiritual authority but ourselves... NOT to ingratiate ourselves by groveling down before imaginary deities begging for help. Devil worship is the same thing, except their imaginary deity has horns and a pitchfork. Portraying Satan as just another "God" to be worshiped with prayers and sacrifices and holy books is missing the point entirely.

Getting back to my original question. I'm told that satanism is about getting in touch with one's true nature. If satanists are "born and not made", what determines their nature and why isn't everyone born with this nature? Or do you believe that all people are born with a satanist nature and that society/religion pushes most people into an unnatural state?

It's that classic combination of nature and nurture that determines whether we are "born satanists". Not everyone is born equal, so not everyone is born a satanist. There are many people who may have a "Satanic" nature, but for some reason or another do not identify themselves as Satanists. That's fine with us, and we tend to leave them alone. A true Satanist is somebody who has this "nature" AND chooses the idea of "Satan" as a representation of their convictions.

Like I said, I'm trying to understand what attracts people to Satanism. Lots of people on this forum were raised in Christian families, they weren't born into Satanism. So obviously they found Satanism attractive in some way or they wouldn't have got involved and we wouldn't be having this discussion.


Again, we would have the same beliefs whether we decided to label them "Satanism" or not.

Most of us came to where we are simply by affirming our own beliefs. I myself was raised Catholic, even though my religion contradicted both my personal feelings and intellectual ideas. Eventually I learned more about Satanism, and I decided to call myself a Satanist NOT because of some profound "conversion experience", but because it was a word that concisely defined my ideas and feelings. I am a Satanist because the term "objectivist epicurean with occult tendencies and a taste for the dark side of things" is too damn long.

And I'm sure most people here will agree.


Edited by The Zebu (03/02/09 06:31 PM)
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#21479 - 03/03/09 06:37 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: The Zebu]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
Thanks to all of you who took the time to reply. It makes interesting reading.
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

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#21486 - 03/03/09 09:17 PM Re: Why Satanism? [Re: Ichtus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
Why? People normally become involved in groups/organization because it suits their personal outlook/interests. People usually have a good reason for doing things. Doesn't this apply to satanism?


I may be a bit late here, but I think that's what ta2zz was trying to point out. As with most things, you either "are or your aren't" when it comes to Satanism. It appeals to some, and sometimes disgusts and repulses others...And not always for the same reasons. For the Satanist, they are attracted to the religion because it fits in with their own personal beliefs. As with those who are born into religions (meaning they inherit their parents beliefs), eventually we do either 2 things. We can forget about our beliefs, or we can start getting involved with them. Just like with Christians, Satanists get involved with Satanism because they are interested in it and interested with certain aspects of themselves that reflect what they are. As humans we are naturally very curious, so by getting interested into something like Satanism, if one is attracted to it and likes the idea, they'll dive into it. It's the same with any other religion.

Now the whole "dark side" concept is really a matter of opinion. "Dark", or "evil" as you probably meant to say varies by the individual. What it all comes down to is that people will always have their own beliefs and their own ways, and to answer your question plain and simple- we get into Satanism because we want to. You either like it or you don't, and if you do like it, you may consider yourself to be a Satanist. How we get to that point differs between us, but like I said it's the same with anything else. We obviously don't think we're "evil" or "dark" (although I can't speak for everyone), or in better words we don't think what we believe is in anyway morally wrong or bad. It's just our way of life.

I hope that helps in addition to what everyone else has said.
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