Page 2 of 4 <1234>
Topic Options
#21530 - 03/04/09 04:30 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Ichtus]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
 Quote:
- Where does our "conscience" come from?
- How did life/DNA, with all its immense complexity, emerge from inanimate material?
- Why caused the big-bang? Science (Penrose/Hawking) has shown that the material we see in the universe came from nothing and that time began with the big-bang.
- How do reason/intelligence/self-consciousness/ideas come from matter/atoms?
- Can all miracles really have a natural explanation? I've spoken to people who've witnessed miracles first hand in others or themselves.
- Private revelation: why discount every testimony from those who claim to have had a spiritual experience. I've read the biographies of several saints who all have said that the love of God is so powerful it's overwhelming at times.
- Countless people including me have had lots of prayers answered.
- Personal experience of the Holy Spirit's grace working in a person (I've felt this wonderful light several times).
- Why does such a large percentage of the world's population believe in a Supreme Being? Where does this belief come from?
- I find the testimonies of converts convincing e.g. someone who was delivered from a hopeless life of drug addiction when all else failed. e.g. Brian Welch formerly of Korn.
- Why does the known universe always obey fixed laws? Why is physical behaviour consistent everywhere



-Consciousness is the result of the physical brain. If you don't believe me, read up on biology and biochemistry.
-"Inanimate material" is composed of many microscopic living organisms that multiply, mutate, and evolve.
-Correction, for anything to exist both time and space have to be infinite. If there was never matter, where did it come from, and how did it come to be? The answer is simple. Matter cannot be created or destroyed. Think of the ever popular argument "it always was and always will be". This is simple science, taught by any first grade science teacher. Common sense...People should be able to put two and two together by now. The big bang was the expansion of what already existed into an infinite amount of space existing in time, which is also infinite. None of this happened in 6 days...
-Physical matter CAN produce consciousness. It is the only reasonable explanation. Feelings/emotions are the result of chemical reactions occuring in the brain, the brain being made up matter. Everything in the human body can be broken up into various systems. Let's focus on the nervous system. Thousands of electrical impulses being sent from the brain to your finger cause your finger to move. Is this metaphysical? No. The impulses are infact physical. "Just because you can't see it doesn't mean it's not there". Break everything down into the simplest form possible. Think small. Everything is built from the smallest forms of life possible. Is it so hard to believe things evolve? THINK!
-There's an explanation behind EVERYTHING. If there isn't, it's just because you can't see it or it hasn't yet been discovered. Do you think cavemen understood fire when they first discovered it? Wouldn't they have been wrong to believe it was the work of a god? It would seem to be the most logical explanation at first, but given thought, examination, and time, all things can be explained.


Ok, prayers, personal revelations, spiritual experiences....Listen, number one, people lie. Number two, it's impossible for someone to understand everything, including what they see, feel, hear, touch, smell, think, ect. Speaking as someone who has experience hallucenations (natural and chemically induced ;\) ), I can honestly say I have seen, thought, and heard things I can't explain or understand, but that doesn't mean that it can't be explained. Over time, I have been able to explain a lot of things...

"Holy shit, batman just came out of my closet".
Later that day..."Oh fuck, I forgot I dropped acid during math class ".

Just an example..
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#21532 - 03/04/09 04:57 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Mike]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
Ichtus -

If I were a more Christian person I'd apologize for the idiotic responses you've received thus far. Please note that the vast majority of replies you've received are from absolute idiots who couldn't debate their way out of a wet paper bag, much less hold a civilized conversation. The perfect example of a weak-minded person is one who replies to debate with insults and slurs. We have our share of sycophantic and myopic "satanists" here, just as you likely have your share of the same in whatever Christian forums you frequent.

You will find that most self-proclaimed satanists to be rude, callow, and insecure. Those who are not will usually entertain a civilized discussion with most people, provided it stays civilized and respectful. You respect my beliefs, and I'll do the same. We don't have to agree, but we can debate. That being said, I'd like to share one of the tenets of my Satanic beliefs...The Seven Signs of Spiritual Slavery:

1. You must believe that the source of the teachings is not a mere human being. Therefore you will believe that your thoughts, and those of other humans, are inferior and ultimately illusory.

2. You are given the threat of spiritual or physical punishment should you cease to follow the teachings. Therefore you will fear to look in places that may reveal other truths.

3. You are led to believe that human suffering is necessary for the eventual betterment of mankind. Therefore you can never dedicate the wholeness of your being to squelching human turmoil.

4. You are taught that your very nature is a transgression against "right". Therefore you will resist that which would bring you joy by authority of your nature.

5. You are led to believe that your salvation extends solely from the will of a particular supernatural force or entity. Therefore you will fear to resist its will and place yourself in subservience to it.

6. You are given the promise of immortality. Therefore in dreading death you will fear to question the teachings.

7. You must have unquestioning faith in the teachings. Therefore you will never know the truth of any other.


To the rest of my Satanic "brethren", you disappoint me. As usual.

Octavius
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Top
#21534 - 03/04/09 05:31 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Octavius]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Come on Oc, get a couple of steps down from your heavenly throne.

Christians are here for a couple of reasons. Either they want to do their good deed and gather god's brownie points in converting the lost sheep or they seek affirmation because their own belief apparently isn't strong enough on itself. Our dear friend here is of the second type and all this 'tell me what's wrong' is nothing more than a kick-start into the sequel 'I'll tell you why it's right' which ends in god and satan measuring penis size. Either way, what he is doing here is a big waste of time, done before and proved to end similar in all cases.

He's a fool to say it as nice as possible and not only that, he's also the opposition. Not merely because he is a christian but also because he represents everything we oppose AND promotes it. The only proper action is certainly not of the fluffy kind.

D.

Top
#21535 - 03/04/09 05:34 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Rig]
Ichtus Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/28/09
Posts: 19
 Originally Posted By: Rig

Abiogenesis, and then evolution through natural selection. Search Google for more information on either topic. You can find numerous articles by scientists who can explain either subject better than I could in this short post.

I'm familiar with abiogenesis but as far as I know there is no agreed theory. Even if abiogenesis is true it does nothing to disprove the existence of a soul. I'm too am familiar with random mutation filtered by natural selection, shock horror.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Okay, first, the argument you Christians use is that something--an omnipotent, omnipresent god--came from nothing and created everything.

Where did you get that idea that God came from nothing? Christians believe that God is eternal i.e. with no beginning and no end and existing outside time.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

That said, the Big Bang doesn't at all postulate that something came from nothing; rather, it's believed that the natural state of the universe is energy. At some point, that energy turned into mass and expanded.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this point. Prior to the singularity there was no space-time or energy. Scientists actually have no idea what caused it, they only know that space-time and energy began with the big bang. Before that there was nothing. See http://www.big-bang-theory.com

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Reference Hubble's Red Shift, the law of the conservation of mass-energy, and the Big Bang for more information. You clearly don't understand basic physics. Oh, and look up the principle of Occam's Razor.
I've studied physics. I'm familiar with these concepts.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

How does an omnipotent, omnipresent god come from nothing? Wouldn't he himself warrant a creator?

See above. God was never created. He is uncreated.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Show me a documented miracle and explain how it has absolutely no scientific proof. And no, personal experience from a friend of yours is not at all a valid claim.

You'd have to be very stubborn not to claim that all miracles have a natural explanation. A miracle by definition has no natural explanation.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Because personal experience is subjective, and not a valid argument.

To those who've had the experiences there no doubt. Whether others believe them is another matter.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Coincidence? No, it couldn't possibly be. Lets ignore all those prayer studies that showed that prayer has had absolutely no effect on anything.

Don't you know that you shouldn't put God to the test?
It's very easy to dismiss the power of prayer when you haven't tried it.

 Originally Posted By: Rig

Yeah, because a numerous amount of people believe something, it must be true, right? Sorry, numbers don't work that way. Belief is a relic from the past, when humans didn't have the understanding of life and the universe that they do now. God, or gods, filled the gaps in their knowledge.

Yes, you could look at it that way but I think people have a God-given desire to seek something far greater than themselves.
I believe people are never completely happy with the things of this world, we always want more and for me God is that something.

 Originally Posted By: Rig
Yeah, you definitely need to have an introductory physics course.

Scentists have developed equations that predict motion and the effects of forces etc but that doesn't explain why these laws exists in the first place and why they behave consistently. Smart-alec comments don't really add anything to the discussion.

Now I've given some of the reasons I believe in God. Probably doesn't mean a whole lot to you but I have good reasons for believing. My faith isn't completely blind. But this isn't why I started this thread. I'm looking to refute arguments put forward by satanists that seek to invalidate Christianity.

Peace,
Ichtus
_________________________
1 Cor 3:16 Know you not, that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

Top
#21539 - 03/04/09 06:02 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Diavolo]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo
Come on Oc, get a couple of steps down from your heavenly throne.

Christians are here for a couple of reasons. Either they want to do their good deed and gather god's brownie points in converting the lost sheep or they seek affirmation because their own belief apparently isn't strong enough on itself. Our dear friend here is of the second type and all this 'tell me what's wrong' is nothing more than a kick-start into the sequel 'I'll tell you why it's right' which ends in god and satan measuring penis size. Either way, what he is doing here is a big waste of time, done before and proved to end similar in all cases.

He's a fool to say it as nice as possible and not only that, he's also the opposition. Not merely because he is a christian but also because he represents everything we oppose AND promotes it. The only proper action is certainly not of the fluffy kind.

D.


A fair summation. I just get my nuts in a twist when I read drivel like this. Ichtus' post notwithstanding, the replies from our members leave much to be desired.
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Top
#21540 - 03/04/09 06:18 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Octavius]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I know Oc, my nuts twist so much at times they could sell them as a toy to kids. I don't mind the dude on this board as long as he does keep his 'religious' drivel to himself and brings worthy input at other levels. But what he is doing is the same as me joining a baseball team and then keep ranting about how great football is. There is a time and place for everything.

When they pop up here, reactions like this are to be expected. In fact, people are being rather nice, I've seen worse. They are the forum's stress balls, it's their purpose for a while until our ways part again. And unavoidably they'll part.

And about the replies of our members. Well, what can I say, they leave much to be desired but that isn't only in this thread. Still, what we are looking for can't be delivered in mass so we have to endure the smell of fish as we are waiting.

D.

Top
#21541 - 03/04/09 06:52 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Ichtus]
Rig Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Grand Rapids, MI
 Originally Posted By: Ichtus

I'm familiar with abiogenesis but as far as I know there is no agreed theory. Even if abiogenesis is true it does nothing to disprove the existence of a soul. I'm too am familiar with random mutation filtered by natural selection, shock horror.


You asked how life arose from non-life; I answered your question. I certainly wasn't offering abiogenesis as proof against a soul existing, because a soul had nothing to do with the original question or response. But, since you brought it up, there's nothing that proves the existence of a soul. You're the one claiming it exists, therefore the burden of proof lies upon you. Where is your evidence, outside the teachings of your errant, archaic tome?

 Quote:

Where did you get that idea that God came from nothing? Christians believe that God is eternal i.e. with no beginning and no end and existing outside time.


I know what Christians believe; I was one for over 18 years. The next thing you'll tell me is that our finite minds cannot comprehend how god is eternal. Well, the point still stands: extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; what is yours?

 Quote:

I'm pretty sure you're wrong on this point. Prior to the singularity there was no space-time or energy. Scientists actually have no idea what caused it, they only know that space-time and energy began with the big bang. Before that there was nothing. See http://www.big-bang-theory.com


Energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and the Big Bang occurred when energy turned into mass and expanded. With that in mind, do you care to link me to peer-reviewed physics theories that postulate that energy was created by the Big Bang?

 Quote:

See above. God was never created. He is uncreated.


So he doesn't exist? Great; I guess we're done here.

 Quote:

A miracle by definition has no natural explanation.


Right, now show me a documented miracle and explain how it is impossible to explain through science and/or reason. I'm still waiting.

 Quote:

To those who've had the experiences there no doubt. Whether others believe them is another matter.


Again, one person really, really, really believing something doesn't make it true.

 Quote:

Don't you know that you shouldn't put God to the test?
It's very easy to dismiss the power of prayer when you haven't tried it.


You're so quick to assume I haven't tried it--I was a Christian for 18 years of my life. All documented studies have shown that prayer doesn't work, so how about you show me some evidence that it does?

 Quote:

Yes, you could look at it that way but I think people have a God-given desire to seek something far greater than themselves.
I believe people are never completely happy with the things of this world, we always want more and for me God is that something.


You think, you believe; that's nice. Your delusional beliefs do not lend credence to something that has no proof, and makes no sense.

 Quote:

Scentists have developed equations that predict motion and the effects of forces etc but that doesn't explain why these laws exists in the first place and why they behave consistently. Smart-alec comments don't really add anything to the discussion.


Your explanation for these laws existing in the first place is that god did it. I'm sorry, but even though science can't explain every minute detail, it's a lot more convincing than a poorly-written book that tells me that god did it.

 Originally Posted By: Octavius

A fair summation. I just get my nuts in a twist when I read drivel like this. Ichtus' post notwithstanding, the replies from our members leave much to be desired.


All due respect to a blue member, I'm curious why you consider all our responses to be trash. You haven't even responded to Ichtus' questions; I have, and in a rather logical manner. Granted, I could've been a little less sarcastic--but what is it about my responses that leaves much to be desired?

Top
#21543 - 03/04/09 06:58 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Mike]
ortho Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/03/08
Posts: 25
Loc: France.Paris
Hy!
Dear christ's lover;
How can you speak about a religion which does'nt have any historical or archeological fact?
It has been build on lies:
The only proof we can see, is a part, a piece of stone where the names of "Tiberius" and "Pilatus" appear.
Pilate is mentionned in a dedication to Tiberius Caesar which clearly says that it was from "Pontius Pilate, Prefect of Judea."
You can see this stone in the "Israel Museum" (Jerusalem)
From Caesarea, Israel
New Testament Period
Pontius Pilate, (26-37 AD).

That is the only fact alone, archeologists have found about this mysterious entity you named "Iesus Nazareus Rex Iudeorum"...
All the "History" has been build by bishops,priests and Popes during the different councils specially those of:
year / location
325 Nicee I
381 Constantinople I
431 Ephese
451 Chalcédoine
553 Constantinople II
680-681 Constantinople III
787 Nicée II
At the begining your man was a Master, an enlightened one;at the end he has been made(propulsed) as god,son of god,living of the same nature with the father and the holy spirit!
All this position in fact after the recognition of the "Church" as "official religion" by the emperor Constantin(272-337 AD).
About the Bible and its "History" it is the same.
No sentence engraved by Egyptians on the "Hebrews" exode too; only one which tell us the victory of "Meremptah, 13th son of Ramses",who has crushed the "Israel".
You can see this "stone of Meremptah" in the museum of Cairo!

Concerning "Avram" renamed "Abraham", he left his country in fact to flee, to run away of the war resulting of the invasion of "Akkad Empire" -(approximatively 2180-2004 BC) by the "Barbarians".After 2000BC, the new kingdom fell under the rushes of "Elamites" and "Amorrites" peoples.
Avram, the retailer, the merchant,the "clan chief", has gone away in other climes to live more quietly, with his family ( about 800 peoples indeed!)
Thank you very much,dear christ lover to give us the opportunity to have look on the real fact! And not on a legend, which put fire and blood everywhere crusaders arrived!
Have a good night!

Top
#21544 - 03/04/09 07:06 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Rig]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
Ictus, I am not going to debate your belief system and mine. I do wonder why you would come and register at a Satanic website though. Our belief systems are obviously at opposite ends of the spectrum. You can't compare apples to rocks... If you are openminded enough and want to learn about Satanism, I would reccomend reading some books. There are a pleathera of books out there on Satanism. Perhaps by reading a few you could somewhat relate to what draws us to Satanism. There is no "evil dark side" for me. Like I have said before, true Satanism is vastly different than what Hollywood or the preachers make it out to be. Just know though, by coming and registering here you walk into the situation making yourself a target for critisism. I wouldn't register on a Christian site to speak about Satanism, and I already know all I want to about Christianity. Know that many people here are Ex-Christians. We come here to interact with like minded people, not debate theology and faith.


Roger.
_________________________
We can't stop here, this is bat country!

Top
#21547 - 03/04/09 07:56 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Diavolo]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Wow, you opened up a nasty can of worms with this thread. Most of us have enough reason behind their antichristianity to fill several books. Anyway, here it goes, I hope I can provide some new insight that hasn't been pounded to death already.


- Where does our "conscience" come from?
- How did life/DNA, with all its immense complexity, emerge from inanimate material?
- Why caused the big-bang? Science (Penrose/Hawking) has shown that the material we see in the universe came from nothing and that time began with the big-bang.


Our conscience comes from our genetic behavior. Look at animals- they all have various altruistic behaviors that help them survive as a species. Human beings are no different.

Science never claimed "everything came from nothing". Science only states how the universe came together from a giant mass of existing material. How this material came into existence in the first place is unknown.



- Can all miracles really have a natural explanation? I've spoken to people who've witnessed miracles first hand in others or themselves.


Yes, it's quite possible for them to all be bullshit. Even if we somehow knew for a fact that all miracles were false, people would still make up stories about miracles based on misinterpretations, luck, or outright lies. Therefore the only way to verify whether miracles exist would be to empirically test them. So far we have found absolutely no modern evidence of supernatural miracles. All tested psychics, mind-over-matter magicians, miracle-workers, faith-healers, etc, have been found to have been working off of either psychological cues or outright deception.

If you're talking about a "miracle" as in, "once my brother was in the hospital with a deadly disease, and the doctor said there was a million-to-one chance of mortality, but he survived! It must have been Jesus!" Yes, keep in mind that the brother was that tiny, naturally-occurring .001 you will always have. Yet for every 1 person that survives (your brother), chance dictates that there will probably be 999,999 other people that die from that disease. Why attribute it to God when such cases naturally occur by chance?


- Private revelation: why discount every testimony from those who claim to have had a spiritual experience. I've read the biographies of several saints who all have said that the love of God is so powerful it's overwhelming at times.


So? Every person has moments of intense psychological euphoria, not just from religious experiences.

Even if spiritual experiences DID exist supernaturally, why do you conclude they come from the Christian god? Christians, Muslims, Pagans, Theistic Satanists, etc, will all tell you about how one time this vision of Jesus/Mary/Mohammed/Odin/Satan appeared to them, clear as day, and bestowed upon them some profound words of comfort or miraculous display of power. They can't all be from the same source because the natures of the deities are so contradictory. If spiritual experiences are truly spiritual, then this must point to some kind of polytheism.



- Countless people including me have had lots of prayers answered.


See the one two questions above about chance. Keep in mind that all these prayers are self-limiting, ie, they could naturally occur without you praying. (people recovering from disease, receiving a large fortune, etc). Here's a classic challenge. Pray for an amputee. Pray every day for God to make his severed leg whole. When it happens, maybe then I'll start believing.


- Personal experience of the Holy Spirit's grace working in a person (I've felt this wonderful light several times).


See previous.


- Why does such a large percentage of the world's population believe in a Supreme Being? Where does this belief come from?
- I find the testimonies of converts convincing e.g. someone who was delivered from a hopeless life of drug addiction when all else failed. e.g. Brian Welch formerly of Korn.


We believe in a Supreme Being because most of the human race can't stand the idea of there being no life after death, or no imaginary cosmic father figure, so they use these as psychological crutches. Satanists, Atheists, and other such skeptics are not bothered by the idea of oblivion, so we question any kind of pie-in-the-sky spiritual idea that seems to exist for no other purpose than to fill in emotional/logical gaps.

As far as "uplifting" goes, keep in mind that there are also many people who can turn their life around WITHOUT a God, simply by picking themselves up by their own bootstraps. In my opinion, this is where TRUE strength comes from (a sort of "Satanic Strength") where a person can do amazing things in their lives with their own two hands, without a God, rather than relying on some imaginary best friend.


- Why does the known universe always obey fixed laws? Why is physical behaviour consistent everywhere


What does this have to do with proving the existence of a Christian god? This could also be explained by deism, polytheism, gnostic maltheism, platonic monotheism, etc.

You seem to be relying on the "Watchmaker" argument- the idea that since the world is complex and intricate, it must have been divinely created.

So let's look at a watch. It's complex and intricate, no doubt, so it must have been created, right? But the watch has flaws. Sometimes it misses a tick. It needs to be wound. A gear might snap. It gets dirty occasionally, so it must be polished, lubricated, and fixed. This can be explained because the watchmaker is imperfect. He is imperfect, so he makes an imperfect watch.

Now let's look at the universe. It is much like a watch, with its systems of molecules, dna strands, atoms, particles, etc, all reacting with each other to produce the phenomenon known as the Natural World. But the universe, too, has imperfections. There are parasites, cancers, and diseases. Every so often an RNA strand misses a notch, so the resulting DNA strand is riddled with genetic defects and mutations. Planets might get knocked off their orbits, normal stable chemicals spontaneously react because of tiny undetectable imbalances on a molecular level.

So if an all-powerful and all-good God exists, then why are there imperfections like that? From the "watch" we are given, I would think that the "watchmaker" is chaotic and imperfect, just like the universe he created. Heck, I would think that HP. Lovecraft's description of the impersonal blind-idiot-god Azathoth is a more likely description of the "creation force" than some anthropomorphic father figure who cares specifically about some germs crawling on the tiny cosmic ball of dirt known as the Earth.

Those are my intellectual/scientific reasons for disagreeing with Christianity and theism in general.

As for my philosophical reasons, I will be brief, as most of them have been stated here and can be found in other sources.

1. Christianity and theism teaches us there is a life beyond ours, and that matter is an illusion. This inhibits people from truly appreciating existence. Since the material world is all we have, we should learn to enjoy it.

2. Religious wars and discrimination. While such things will occur without religion, the removal of religion would certainly take one more item off the list of excuses for people to blow each other up, or prevent their offspring from interbreeding with other cultures, or brand any kind of science as "evil".

3. Why should we love our enemies? How does it serve any kind of purpose? To quote the Bible, what we should REALLY do to our enemies is "hate them with a perfect hatred" and remove them utterly from the face of the earth, or at least ignore them.

4. If God, or "goodness" is supposed to ultimately prevail over the universe, then how can that possibly exist alongside the eternal suffering in hell?

5. Jesus had a fairly clean record aside from his naive hippyism and pointless self-sacrifice, but the Old Testament prophets- supposedly "Godly men"- were thoroughly disgusting warmongers, rapists, and architects of genocide. If Moses were alive in 1945, he would have been executed at Nuremburg for all the atrocious things he and his armies did to Canaanite civilians, women, and children. And it was God that told him to do all those things.

This is only a small sample of what I could easily expand into a multi-volume book series, but I'll leave it at this,


Edited by The Zebu (03/04/09 08:08 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#21548 - 03/04/09 08:14 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: The Zebu]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
Thanks for backing my answers up Zebu.

 Quote:
So? Every person has moments of intense psychological euphoria, not just from religious experiences.


Exactly my point (see my post). I would also like to add that people also have their moments of psychological anguish. You can't forget all the people who have claimed to have hellish near death experiences and later turned to Christ out of fear (the dumbest reason). I would also like to point out something brought up in another thread. The chemical (drug if I may) DMT that is released while one is close to death is the reason for many near death experiences. Much like the nature of NDE's, there are some people who suffer from severe delusional disorders (schizophrenia to be more precise). I don't mean to bitch about it but as a sufferer of schizophrenia I can say I've experienced some crazy shit, and at times have believed some pretty crazy things...Luckily I was able to overcome the delusional behavior, but for many, sufferers from the disease have spiritual experiences (good or bad) and will turn to certain religions. These are usually the fanatics and/or the psychos who murder their family because their dog told them it was a good idea. I'm not suggesting that all Christians are crazy...But the ones who have the reacurring delusions or 'spiritual experiences' as some call it may be, and it is more likely if they talk about it. This usually refers to the fact that they don't know that they're insane, an indication that they're delusional and have lost touch with reality.

Like I said, there's an explanation for everything.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

Top
#21550 - 03/04/09 08:24 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Ichtus]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I stopped reading your mess.

In the end, its simple.

WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
WE DON'T CARE IF YOU BELIEVE US.
WE DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, YOU CAME HERE.

WE ARE WHO WE ARE, and you are just you.

That's it.

We are not here to test your faith, we are not your enemy.
Your only enemy is the face in the mirror, a reflection of ego and vaniety.

Please go get a life, go help in soup kitchen, feed the poor, donate time to kids in the hospital. Go make a difference in real life, your not making any difference here with this online shit.

Go forth away from here and practice the true values that the christ you believe in taught.

Have a nice day.

Morgan

PS> WOULD SOMEBODY LOCK THIS FUCKING THREAD ALREADY......
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#21553 - 03/04/09 08:57 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Morgan]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
Hey Morgan, don't hold back tell us how you really feel... I have to agree with you though. As I had said earlier, I have to wonder why the xians would come here and register. They could probably glean allot more information by being guest lurkers and reading. That way they don't open themselve up to a barrage of critisism.


Roger.
_________________________
We can't stop here, this is bat country!

Top
#21557 - 03/04/09 09:35 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Morgan]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Morgan

WE DON'T CARE WHAT YOU BELIEVE.
WE DON'T CARE IF YOU BELIEVE US.
WE DON'T HAVE TO PROVE ANYTHING, YOU CAME HERE.

WE ARE WHO WE ARE, and you are just you.

That's it.

Well said Morgan, short and straight to the point... Funny he believes he was attacked last night in chat... The only sharks that were in chat were the sharks of knowledge and logic...

I myself was amazed at the waste of energy trying to convert this one into one who uses logic, or whatever the hell it was... To all party's involved, whatever floats your boat, whatever helps you sleep at night, no matter your beliefs... As long as whatever beliefs you have do not infringe on mine or my own... I have little time or want to bash or convert anyone...

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

Top
#21559 - 03/04/09 11:26 PM Re: Arguments against Christianity... [Re: Ichtus]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
You failed to cite any evidence for a big person outside the universe, who has a penchant for miraculously impregnating virgins and getting incredibly pissed off when teenagers masturbate.

Of course, if you pray for faith, your own mind can answer. A desire to believe is a powerful enough psychological reason to override any reason and logic.

Life without blind faith doesn't have to be desperate, empty and meaningless.
The alternative is Stoic realism - face the brutal facts of life (and death) with serenity, and transcend the need to believe in a whitewashed reality. No dogmatic faith, yet still at peace (ataraxia, no fear) with the brutal realities of the world, while engaging like a soldier with the struggles of life.

That, unfortunately, is too difficult to many. Christian faith is the easy way out.


Hope you enjoyed your stay here.


And remember, the great tempter Satan (the symbolic archetype of carnality) will never be far from you, no matter how many layers of paint you add over your carnal nature. Satan will always be with you, like your own shadow, no matter how much you try and drive him away.

You can always call on his name if you get sick of the dogma and rules. Just light a candle and ask Satan to enter your heart and fill you with his power.
Or cower in fear at the very suggestion if that's your thing.

Shemhamforash!

Top
Page 2 of 4 <1234>


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.031 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 28 queries. Zlib compression disabled.