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#38211 - 05/02/10 12:27 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Mindmaster]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Do you have any examples of people arrested in recent times for putting a public curse on somebody? I would like to see the testimony at that trial.

@ Satansfarm Haven't you wrote this exact thing once before or are you now posting things you have recited in your videos? I swear you have said this before.

No time to go look sorry...

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#38212 - 05/02/10 01:08 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: ta2zz]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: ta2zz

Do you have any examples of people arrested in recent times for putting a public curse on somebody? I would like to see the testimony at that trial.

@ Satansfarm Haven't you wrote this exact thing once before or are you now posting things you have recited in your videos? I swear you have said this before.

No time to go look sorry...

~T~


I'm not sure you would get in trouble for "cursing" as so much as threatening death or injury. It's generally called probable cause. E.g., someone dies.. who hated them? etc.. You probably would be top of the list if you were blurting stuff out... Even if you don't get blamed why would you want a bunch of cops poking around your house?

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#38213 - 05/02/10 06:50 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Mindmaster]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Yeah I get the threatening thing but I still want to see the DA that’s going to try to prosecute such a case. I could see the headlines “Man charged for threatening in Satanic curse leads to victim being beheaded in a bus accident”.

So first you assume that cursing someone in public is against the law then when questioned you assume that it could be probable cause or that it could be seen as threatening. You go even further to assume that it will bring cops poking around your home. Interesting really.

I myself think blurting out too much about curses and such may get you evaluated much faster than arrested. But this could change in different areas.

So you don’t know of any case where a person who has cursed someone was arrested for threatening then eh?

Did you really need to quote my whole post for this?

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#38285 - 05/04/10 02:13 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: ta2zz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Some thoughts about cursing in general. If a curse, to be effective, requires a gullible recipient, the question that directly comes to mind is why such a dumb person can even be your enemy? If that person is dumb enough to believe, even if only minimally, that anyone can affect their health, life or whatever, by chanting some gibberish in a dark cellar, then how on Earth could that person not be handled with directly? Dumb people have one thing in common; their weak spots are pretty evident, and in such, they can be dolls on your stage if you prefer so.

That's why I regard anyone resorting to curses to handle their enemies as either dumb, weak or cowards.

In my opinion, the only advantage of a destruction ritual, besides some emotional detoxification, is that you prepare your mind for the real work. By mentally culling someone, you start remolding your brain and embracing the fact that some people do deserve to be removed of the food chain and in doing so, you weed out any moral objection still left somewhere in you. Your mind is flexible and by continuously forcing it a certain route, this route will become its natural route.

A more effective technique than the destruction ritual is what I call becoming the Hunter. Instead of sitting in front of your decorated table and wishing for some random disaster to happen to Mr. Enemy, you start to imagine you being the force of vengeance and plan an effective method of elimination. Effective as in being able to execute that very plan in reality with a minimal chance of failing. Like in hunting different game requires a different approach and patience and careful planning is required. You consider and reconsider all options from start to end and constantly change any weak link in that chain until you got something worthwhile. In the end, if your prey deserves it, you are ready to leave the mental kingdom and move your plan into reality. If your prey didn't deserve it, you were wasting time to begin with.

Happy hunting.

D.

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#38407 - 05/09/10 04:38 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Diavolo]
Kali Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/15/10
Posts: 33
For cursing, you need to be extremely focused on the target in order for it to work. If you don't put enough effort into the curse, you could end up cursing yourself.
Some tools needed: a picture, lock of hair, belonging
You should write out a meaningful curse--it can pertain to the victim's desires.

When finished, you should bury the doll/wax/etc. somewhere near a train track and far from your home. For it to work- you have to believe that it will benefit you in a big way. That's how it goes for me. While Wiccans say cursing is unethical, I think it is ethical as long as you are aware of your actions. It's like self defense. Expect to see results, and think of it as if you're doing it physically--because that's what you're trying to achieve.

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#38425 - 05/10/10 02:53 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Kali]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Kali, as I see it rituals are a means toward an end, not ends in and of themselves. They work only to the extent that they may help prepare me mentally for whatever physical actions I will take to achieve the results I desire. Therefore, I don’t “need” anything but the will to go out and do what I want done.

Anything beyond this suggests a metaphysical aspect of magic, which I’ve seen no hard evidence of. I prefer to deal with knowns, and I know that I can often get what I want in life by taking the appropriate actions. That’s my magic.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#38442 - 05/11/10 02:40 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: William Wright]
Mikey58 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 20
Loc: England
re: William Wright.

People have different ideas on magic. Your view is realistic, scientific, and you seem to have a well thought out idea of what magic is. The ritual as you say is the means to the end, and the metaphysical aspect may or may not exist. Any manifestations or things seen may be just projections of the mind. As Crowley said; whether these things have an independent existence does not matter.

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#38475 - 05/12/10 03:55 PM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Mikey58]
Satansfarm Offline
member


Registered: 01/12/08
Posts: 352
Loc: america
In the chapter "How to Be a Sorcerer" of Satan Speaks Lavey explains why some people get results from magic rituals while others don't. Magical ability is something a person is born with. It cannot be learned or taught. You either have it or you don't.
You can learn all the names of all the gods and their origins. You can memorize each enochian key and recite them all by heart. Magical ability is probably most akin to being able to draw or play a musical instrument. You either have it or you don't. Most people don't have it. Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and absolutely nothing will happen except for perhaps they might feel better after the sort of primal therapy that the rituals entail. Some people will get disappointed and abandon Satanism as some kind of farce, others will like the philosophy and use it in their lives. A few will be able to curse their enemies and watch them die.

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#38918 - 05/30/10 08:44 AM Re: Not a good idea to piss Satanists off. [Re: Satansfarm]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: Satansfarm
In the chapter "How to Be a Sorcerer" of Satan Speaks Lavey explains why some people get results from magic rituals while others don't. Magical ability is something a person is born with. It cannot be learned or taught. You either have it or you don't.


Not sure if I personally agree with this. More accurately some people are good at certain TYPES of magic and better or worse at others. Most magic is inhibitory (meditative/trance/ritual) or based on excitement (dancing, drumming, chanting, etc) but generally one is good at one or the other of these and not both. You have to find your niche be that shamanistic type dancing and drumming or meditative/trance-like work. Anyone can be taught some basics though and get full value. Most failing at magic is attempting to using the system you are ill equipped for. You should survey your own psyche and find out what you can use and what you reject. In any case, PRACTICE can get you through anything that you are lacking. Some just need more practice.

 Quote:

You can learn all the names of all the gods and their origins. You can memorize each enochian key and recite them all by heart. Magical ability is probably most akin to being able to draw or play a musical instrument. You either have it or you don't. Most people don't have it. Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and absolutely nothing will happen except for perhaps they might feel better after the sort of primal therapy that the rituals entail. Some people will get disappointed and abandon Satanism as some kind of farce, others will like the philosophy and use it in their lives. A few will be able to curse their enemies and watch them die.


If any of these things gave you magic ability or even mattered as a component of a magical process I'd agree. But, the issue is moot since LaVey didn't believe that magic is anything but a psychodrama or did he? Long way from a stage magician to a sorcerer maybe someday we'll figure it out. If you use LaVey's model of magic you don't believe any of that shit is real since he has no acceptance of the supernatural. One cannot fail at a psychodrama as it is an _act_. Psychodrama is not considered magic by most actual magic practitioners, so LaVey is being a carny here. He knows his brand of dabbling is nothing more than a stage show, but do you?

Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and fail because the rituals themselves are full of fail. They aren't classically correct nor reflect any accurate modern advancements. They make as much sense as saying the Lord's Prayer in reverse and jacking off. The information to make effective use of magic isn't even present in any book that LaVey has wrote. He copied other authors for the most part who put all of the script in print, but didn't mention the details. A good cook knows how to use the tools in the kitchen so it's not in the recipe, but without that knowledge you make a lot of shitty dinners.

-Mind

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#38927 - 05/30/10 07:27 PM Magic, the Baths, & the Bible [Re: Mindmaster]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Mindmaster
... LaVey didn't believe that magic is anything but a psychodrama or did he?

 Originally Posted By: ASLV to MAA 3/6/74
... The issue of Time covering the psychics was great, and JMK wrote a letter telling them so. What a phoney bunch of wiccans in lab coats most of those birds are! I’ll wager not one in ten “parapsychologists” would recognize a genuinely untoward situation if confronted with it.

I’ve no doubt that you’ve witnessed more outré happenings than all the SRI, Duke U., etc. codgers put together. Those guys never see, test, or come up with much of anything valid.

If you had an ultrasonic raygun that would fit into a fountain pen, or a means of “clouding men’s minds”, would you be so quick to let anyone else in on it? When I hear about the Ted Serioses and Uri Gellers and how they are knocking them dead, well … I only wish we had more time to devote to discussing these things first-hand, like about two hundred years.

There is such a thing as “magic”, and wonders are indeed possible within its precincts. Most of what you see around you now, however, is truly what Time called “a substitute faith”. Not that it bothers me much, for each substitute faith leads the public a step away from those who have become stifling and parasitic to the Great God Flux.

Even though the present crises are an inconvenience, the end result will be to our taste. We did bring them on ourselves, and we will have to sit them out. I personally find it quite fascinating - like watching the Circus Maximus. Chaos is ensuing nicely, and a catastrophic event is in the immediate offing. I’d better sign off before I start sounding evil.

 Originally Posted By: Mindmaster
Long way from a stage magician to a sorcerer maybe someday we'll figure it out. If you use LaVey's model of magic you don't believe any of that shit is real since he has no acceptance of the supernatural. One cannot fail at a psychodrama as it is an _act_. Psychodrama is not considered magic by most actual magic practitioners, so LaVey is being a carny here. He knows his brand of dabbling is nothing more than a stage show, but do you?

Stage magic is merely a light-hearted, entertaining application of LBM. Accordingly it is one of the exercises the Temple of Set proposes to new Setians to begin comprehending & applying LBM.

As for GBM, Anton both respected and believed in it. But it should not be confused with the pageants that he regularly conducted at 6114 in the early days of the Church; they were just that, for fun, drama, and a pinch of public outrage now and then.

The key to GBM is very much in the awareness and disposition of the celebrant. An insensitive could recite my "Ceremony of the Nine Angles" and waste ten minutes. However it can also be and do exactly what it asserts, as for instance one midnight at the cave down the cliff-edge stairs at the terminus of the Sutro Baths.

 Originally Posted By: Mindmaster
Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and fail because the rituals themselves are full of fail.

A successful magical working, says the Satanic Bible, incorporates five basic ingredients: a serious desire for results, timing of the ritual to coincide with the magician’s greatest strength of will [and the recipient’s least resistance], effective use of imagery to focus attention, direction of the working into a concentrated sending, and maximum utilization of the balance factor [not expecting magic to compensate for too great a difference between the status quo and the desired objective, it being most effective when employed, as it were, to “tip the balance”].

This is what makes any working effective. The window-dressing is just window-dressing. People who just focus on the WD are back in pageantland.

As I have remarked previously, the SB was never conceived as a timeless, stand-alone treatise. Its magical-instruction sections - "BBelial" & "BLeviathan" - were originally mimeographed handouts for the classes on magic that Anton taught at 6114. That's where the substance was explained & explored in detail, and originally the Church's Priests were expected to be educated in & familiar with this curriculum so as to ensure that the SB was "fleshed out" in the Grottos.

"BLucifer" also began as mimeo-handouts at 6114 lectures and in membership application mailings. "BSatan" and the Equinox Enochian Keys were just lifted & "Satanized" from their original sources to fill up Avon's size-requirement. All this happened in 1969, and the SB really makes sense as a "snapshot" at that point in time. The crazy contortions the Great Unwashed have dragged it through since then ... well, as Linus once said in Peanuts, "There's a lesson to be learned here, but I don't know what it is."
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#38928 - 05/30/10 08:00 PM Re: Magic, the Baths, & the Bible [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Michael A.Aquino
"There's a lesson to be learned here, but I don't know what it is."


One main message is that people seem to think that they should be given the keys to the castle without having to work to get them or understand the way the plumbing works. They think that they can get the wisdom of the universe from Bantam books at $3.95 and instantly, as through osmosis, absorb all of the experiences and skills and hard-won wisdom of the writer.

Like Porgy sang to Bess, "It ain't necessarily so."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#38931 - 05/30/10 09:04 PM Another Working Record [Re: Satansfarm]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2573
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
For Bay Area nonmagicians, another place besides the Sutro Baths to avoid after dark is Mount Tamalpais:

 Originally Posted By: The Scroll of Set, March 1986
[Transcribed from a cassette recorder found next to a teenager who hanged himself in the San Francisco Jail on November 2 of this past year, after being arrested on suspicion of murder.]

I shouldn’t have gone with them that night, those fools who laughed at the old Indian’s tale. “By day you white men are tolerated,” he nodded, “but the night is not your time, and we of the old folk are allowed on the lower slopes only because of the honor we do to the spirit
of Mount Tamalpais.”

Drunken and brazen, we lurched towards the car. The wind was brisk and chill as we crossed the Golden Gate. “We’ll make an ass out of that old fool tomorrow,” we jeered, as we drove past Sausalito and took the Highway #1 turn-off to Stinson Beach, and saw before us the dark mass
of Mount Tamalpais.

Up the slopes we staggered, tearing wantonly at the branches of trees unfortunate enough to be in our way. I sent a crushed beer-can sailing o’er the brush and into a small pool whose clear waters were yellowing as one of my companions belched and relieved himself
on Mount Tamalpais.

We climbed to the summit and looked out o’er the vale at the twinkling lights of Tiburon so far below. We were going to build a fire and warm up, but we couldn’t get the wood to light. And besides it was kind of creepy up there. So we finished the rest of the beer and started down through the forests
of Mount Tamalpais.

It was then that the cold, tearing things came ...

Why won’t you believe me?
I couldn’t have smashed bones to pulp with nothing but my bare hands!
I can’t grind through the flesh of a human face with these teeth!

The old Indian visited me yesterday in jail.
He said that they are saving me until later.
_________________________
Michael A. Aquino

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#38933 - 05/30/10 10:53 PM Re: Another Working Record [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



I like Dr. LaVey’s later magic. All of those years of experience culminated in what he did in the Den of Iniquity.

I like the way he created a total environment with artificial human companions to complement that space, in a fashion similar to Dr. Anton Phibes and his art deco world and his mechanical band.

I like the idea of his making musical magic via the keyboards. I like the idea of that space, that Den actually becoming real for him, with real people, and all of them living in a real past time.

Dr. LaVey, I think, could be so wistful and so into the idea of just shutting everything out and just dwelling in the past and playing that long forgotten and neglected music and filling the atmosphere with his will.

He was a true Magus I think and I am still trying to come to grips with what he was doing in the Den.

Dr. LaVey was into more than just mere psychodrama, that's for sure.

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#38935 - 05/31/10 12:35 AM Re: Magic, the Baths, & the Bible [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
Fair enough,

I'm just not sure why there has to be a concept of dichotomy in classes of magic. It all seems very much related to me, but at the same time I don't see the material in _TSB_ as being relevant due to key information being missing.. Your information that this was a hand out does a great deal to provide me with the object of my curiosity here. Namely, this isn't all of the information and that likely a student would be studying this and something else. The work of all magic is understanding your weaknesses and exploiting your strengths. I understand ASLV's real value mind you in that he's one helluva front man for the Prince of Darkness. Probably wouldn't have read anything by Rand, Greene, or Nietzsche without having read _TSB_.

I just happened by other systems first and I noticed the lack of mechanics so to speak though lots of familiar script. \:\) You leave me more curious now about his 'model' of choice. It seems to me that his books follow a psychological model, but his personal views aren't so clean cut just via the text in your post. Supernatural occurrence, mysticism, and psychic activity are definitely really at war with Atheism these days so pardon me if I gouge out my dualism and slaughter it before you all.

On this occasion, I am on one of my dogma shakeup runs so I may even assault satanic philosophy, magic, and practices with impunity. Don't take my outbursts as anything but an attempt to regain reckoning... always happens when I get off reading chaos-related material... just finished _Condensed Chaos_ by Phil Hine. \:\) Stews up the the bits in me which reject assumptions every time!

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#38936 - 05/31/10 03:04 AM Re: Another Working Record [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
When talking about magical workings I can't help to hear that low voice with a vision of crossing the Universe between the stars and planets. It pretty much sums it up..
 Originally Posted By: Rod Serling
There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Twilight Zone".
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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