It's all spelled out quite clearly in TSB. Greater magic is psychodrama, offering up the wonder and mystery our emotional half craves. Ritual allows us to purge emotions and ideas that, were we to dwell on them, could and probably would detract from the quality of our lives. Ritual offers a medium to influence the great unknown that is our unconscious minds..the true god of the autotheist.

And if, in the case of a destruction ritual, something bad should happen to the target of your ritualized release... all the better

However, the power of suggestion (or lesser magick) I do believe to be "real". As for the whole destruction/compassion/lust ritual deal, I think it's more of a release of emotion to clear the conscious of the individual and anything that actually happens is mere coincidence.

you guys are all fools, sayeth I

What if they don't know about the curse? That little part wasn't covered.

- It is during this "dream sleep" that the mind is most receptive to outside or unconscious influence.

- The super-logician will always explain the connection of the magical ritual to the end result as "coincidence".

- ... would be of sufficient force to place an idea in a group of people's heads half-way across the earth, in turn, motivating them in accordance with your will.

While many of my questions on magic were answered in TSB, there are a few that remain a bit foggy as to what magic actually is. Upon reading the process of the destruction ritual, I got the impression that it is simply used to take out ones anger and hatred on an individual by proxy (dolls, pictures, etc.) But then the book states that the best time to perform the ritual is at night or whenever the victim is less alert or sleeping. Does this mean that magic is a tangible force that actually exists outside of ones mind? Why would it matter what time of day it is or what the victim is doing?

The satanic witch and Satanic ritual was writen back with LaVey beleived in a literal Satan.......

But ritual magic works. It is a latent mechanism inherent to all life. Look around you. Every corner of the globe has it's own version. People isolated by mountains, oceans & ice all have the same belief. Yet you all think you are above it all and that is why I have decided to move on. No offence.

Re-read TSB, LaVey hinted at it, he told you it was real. The clues are there if you care to look. Ask yourself why TSR are so irrelevant.

well if you read between the lines and note the way in which LaVey address satan and speak of him you can see glipses that could be preceived as such and draw conclusions based on that.

I am rather disgusted with people who, after learning that I am capable of hexing people would like me to hex someone for them. These same self righteous types don't really want to get to know me as a person, but they want me to be some kind of Satanic hitman for them. I try to explain to them that it doesn't work that way. If I have no real stake in the matter, it 's just not going to work. Not even if they paid me money. This is not just for destruction rituals, but for lust or compassion. I just say, look, if you are really interested, just get the Satanic bible and try it for yourself. I do realize, of course, that not everyone has magical ability. As a matter of fact, it is kind of rare. I could be tempted to fleece these people for every dime they have. I'm just not that sort or person.

If you do not believe it will work it won't, or vice versa.

I grow so tired of hearing that cliche statement. Just believing something doesn't make it so.

That is no different than saying if you believe in Jesus you will be saved and if you don't believe in Jesus you won't be saved. Ultimately it comes down to a matter of faith because you are asked to believe despite a lack of proof or good reason to believe.

If the purpose of ritual magic is really just a form of therapy there is no need to believe anything. Either it works for you or it doesn't.

They are so good at getting away with it, manipulating the system, coming out so innocent looking, making me look like the bad guy WHEN IT WAS I WHO WAS ROBBED, WHO LOST MONEY, WHO FEELS CHEATED AND ABUSED.

O.K. then ...

Look, Anton wrote the Satanic Bible knowing full well that it was going to be bought by every teenage clod at the corner drugstore bookrack. Therefore the "destruction ritual" was designed so that no one would or could actually get hurt from or by it, get it?

Let me address something that it seems people have some misconceptions about ...You might not recognize the words. Doesn't mean they aren't valid.

In the case of Jake's example here, I think he would agree with me that while this octagonal house reflected and amplified Anton's SU in one striking way, had the three of them taken a stroll down some anonymous street out in the Richmond, visited the Aquarium, or patronized some strange little restaurant, that SU would have magically enriched any of those just as pervasively. And I am not talking here about just the pleasure of his company, but rather about the heightened sensitivity to surroundings and their significance which one experienced. And it is the same, in uniquely-personal ways, with every IV°.

you guys are all fools, sayeth I

Do you have any examples of people arrested in recent times for putting a public curse on somebody? I would like to see the testimony at that trial.

@ Satansfarm Haven't you wrote this exact thing once before or are you now posting things you have recited in your videos? I swear you have said this before.

No time to go look sorry...

~T~

In the chapter "How to Be a Sorcerer" of Satan Speaks Lavey explains why some people get results from magic rituals while others don't. Magical ability is something a person is born with. It cannot be learned or taught. You either have it or you don't.

You can learn all the names of all the gods and their origins. You can memorize each enochian key and recite them all by heart. Magical ability is probably most akin to being able to draw or play a musical instrument. You either have it or you don't. Most people don't have it. Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and absolutely nothing will happen except for perhaps they might feel better after the sort of primal therapy that the rituals entail. Some people will get disappointed and abandon Satanism as some kind of farce, others will like the philosophy and use it in their lives. A few will be able to curse their enemies and watch them die.

... LaVey didn't believe that magic is anything but a psychodrama or did he?

... The issue of Time covering the psychics was great, and JMK wrote a letter telling them so. What a phoney bunch of wiccans in lab coats most of those birds are! I’ll wager not one in ten “parapsychologists” would recognize a genuinely untoward situation if confronted with it.

I’ve no doubt that you’ve witnessed more outré happenings than all the SRI, Duke U., etc. codgers put together. Those guys never see, test, or come up with much of anything valid.

If you had an ultrasonic raygun that would fit into a fountain pen, or a means of “clouding men’s minds”, would you be so quick to let anyone else in on it? When I hear about the Ted Serioses and Uri Gellers and how they are knocking them dead, well … I only wish we had more time to devote to discussing these things first-hand, like about two hundred years.

There is such a thing as “magic”, and wonders are indeed possible within its precincts. Most of what you see around you now, however, is truly what Time called “a substitute faith”. Not that it bothers me much, for each substitute faith leads the public a step away from those who have become stifling and parasitic to the Great God Flux.

Even though the present crises are an inconvenience, the end result will be to our taste. We did bring them on ourselves, and we will have to sit them out. I personally find it quite fascinating - like watching the Circus Maximus. Chaos is ensuing nicely, and a catastrophic event is in the immediate offing. I’d better sign off before I start sounding evil.

Long way from a stage magician to a sorcerer maybe someday we'll figure it out. If you use LaVey's model of magic you don't believe any of that shit is real since he has no acceptance of the supernatural. One cannot fail at a psychodrama as it is an _act_. Psychodrama is not considered magic by most actual magic practitioners, so LaVey is being a carny here. He knows his brand of dabbling is nothing more than a stage show, but do you?

Most people will try the rituals in the Satanic Bible and fail because the rituals themselves are full of fail.

"There's a lesson to be learned here, but I don't know what it is."

[Transcribed from a cassette recorder found next to a teenager who hanged himself in the San Francisco Jail on November 2 of this past year, after being arrested on suspicion of murder.]

I shouldn’t have gone with them that night, those fools who laughed at the old Indian’s tale. “By day you white men are tolerated,” he nodded, “but the night is not your time, and we of the old folk are allowed on the lower slopes only because of the honor we do to the spirit
of Mount Tamalpais.”

Drunken and brazen, we lurched towards the car. The wind was brisk and chill as we crossed the Golden Gate. “We’ll make an ass out of that old fool tomorrow,” we jeered, as we drove past Sausalito and took the Highway #1 turn-off to Stinson Beach, and saw before us the dark mass
of Mount Tamalpais.

Up the slopes we staggered, tearing wantonly at the branches of trees unfortunate enough to be in our way. I sent a crushed beer-can sailing o’er the brush and into a small pool whose clear waters were yellowing as one of my companions belched and relieved himself
on Mount Tamalpais.

We climbed to the summit and looked out o’er the vale at the twinkling lights of Tiburon so far below. We were going to build a fire and warm up, but we couldn’t get the wood to light. And besides it was kind of creepy up there. So we finished the rest of the beer and started down through the forests
of Mount Tamalpais.

It was then that the cold, tearing things came ...

Why won’t you believe me?
I couldn’t have smashed bones to pulp with nothing but my bare hands!
I can’t grind through the flesh of a human face with these teeth!

The old Indian visited me yesterday in jail.
He said that they are saving me until later.

There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call "The Twilight Zone".

When talking about magical workings I can't help to hear that low voice with a vision of crossing the Universe between the stars and planets. It pretty much sums it up..

The elements of which you speak which were used in forms of magic were considered to be elemental spirits… So while there is no god in your equation, there are spirits or in your case forces of nature… Seems pretty fucking close or no different to me…

“Nature spirits which include elementals are believed to be various types of beings or spirits which inhabit Nature.”

“Elementals are of a lower type of nature spirit. They are believed to exist as the life force in all living things. They are said to even exist in the four elements of earth, air, fire, and water; the planets, stars, and the signs of the zodiac; and the hours of the day and night.”

Elementals Link

Now let me further add witchcraft to ritual magic, and prayer… All of these work exactly the same through luck… If your prayer, curse, or spell works then what a powerful person you are, how powerful your faith in yourself or your god must be… Now if the same prayer, spell, curse, or working doesn’t work well then perhaps you were not focused enough or your belief in your god or your own power was not enough to secure the desired outcome… The only difference between prayer, magic or witchcraft is where you think this power comes from…

Can you really call on the power of the elements and believe that you are not calling on an external source of power? How different from asking for god's favor is this? Can you honestly argue that because it has been done for thousands of years it must be correct? Following that train of thought then both you and I are on the wrong path, Jesus is real... Prayer must also be real...

Question everything as a Satanist just not magic as long as it works for you… In fact didn’t Anton say something along the same line about the use of satanic magic? Not to question it as long as it works for you? Sometimes it is easier to fool yourself than others, but a smart man can easily fool you into fooling yourself…

You admit yourself that curses only really work if the person deserves it… Why do you think this is? Could it not be this person’s disposition or actions that make him worthy of the curse itself is not what ensures his demise? Many Satanists admit that ritual is used only to clear the mind, the only difference I see from this to prayer is dumping your goals on an external deity… I would have to argue that even though a Christian prays to god the outcome of clearing the mind is not much different… Except while we may work to achieve what we want a Christian may wait hoping it will be handed to them…

The longer I look the more similar it all becomes… The basic instincts and common emotions that drive the human race are very few, quite disgusting to be a slave to without trying to understand these basics…

No fantastical beings in the sky no fantastical powers to be had…

~T~

I think there is a differnce between prayer and magic, and that is self deceit. The devout church goer will pray and whine about his circumstance, which negates any real results by spreading the desire thin and deluting it. The Satanist or Magician knowing that prayer does no good takes the situation by command.

You said that "the only difference I see from this to prayer is dumping your goals on an external deity…

" In my view, we are not dumping our goals on some external deity, but rather, rid any unwanted negative energies or emotions as in the Destruction Ritual. In the Destruction Ritual this is attained by the symbolic sticking of pins or needles into an effegy. The whole point is for the magician to return to a functional and productive life, and if (even by coincidence) the victim gets ill then so be it and Hail Satan!

There was mention of the Infernal Names and a feeling of empowerment by a poster. I would just like to add that, of course in my workings, the Infernal Names are not viewed as literal beings but as archetypes - reflections of self, whose attributs can be added to the self.

BUT, if by some reason a person undergoes ritual and chooses to believe in the archetypes chosen and it intensifies the ritual, then so be it! If believing that you are in league with demons and it better intensifies your personal workings then by all means indulge in fantasy.

But when it is all said and done the rightful mind would do well to realize that it is just that - fantasy. Within Satanic Ritual there is a bit of paradox concurrent within the rituals: up is down, pleasure is pain, right is wrong, ingnorance bliss, truth lies etc.

By taking command you do mean doing something besides ritual to achieve what you desire yes? Cause if all you do is a ritual and wait you are no different than a person who prays. Also to point out, you have no absolute knowledge that everyone who has ever prayed did so whining with little or diluted desire. This is not fact just your opinion.


I did? I know you cut and pasted my whole post but I fear if you really read it that you fail to comprehend what I really said.

Try rereading and understanding this paragraph shall we?

“Now let me further add witchcraft to ritual magic, and prayer… All of these work exactly the same through luck… If your prayer, curse, or spell works then what a powerful person you are, how powerful your faith in yourself or your god must be… Now if the same prayer, spell, curse, or working doesn’t work well then perhaps you were not focused enough or your belief in your god or your own power was not enough to secure the desired outcome… The only difference between prayer, magic or witchcraft is where you think this power comes from…” ~ta2zz

Nowhere do I say anything about dumping your goals on an external deity.


I fully understand Satanic magic and ritual and I assure you I have transcended any need for physical ritual and only see alters and such as tools for others who are not as focused. I have met others who follow this path, those who believe that the second half of that little black book is merely for those who still need dogma and filler. Yes I said dogma.

Seriously the need to perform a ritual to gain control of your emotions just oozes weakness to me.

No offence to any who need or use ritual or to those who for an alter use a naked female.


Who, what? Weren’t you directly replying to my above copied post? Wait are you talking about where I said this?

“Can you really call on the power of the elements and believe that you are not calling on an external source of power? How different from asking for god's favor is this?” ~ta2zz


So by all means if praying to The Hulk or if calling on him makes you stronger or gets you results so be it.

You mentioned self-deceit?



Fantasy is best left to children and bedtime stories. There is little room for fantasy beyond entertainment in my reality. If we remember that the rituals were written in a different time for a different mindset than and only then will reality become clear.

~T~

True! And this isn't something "new" or "deceptive." Even in the ancient musty dusties of magical ritual and up to and including some of the iconic "magical societies," it was common to leave out a specific part of a ritual, and that piece of the ritual would be known by those who needed to know it. It was a key/lock type of situation. In essence, "I'll tell you where the treasure IS... it's there and ready for you to take it... when YOU are ready to receive it."

LaVey was simply not handing a loaded weapons to children.

You have your obvious Witches...but then there are Warlocks, Wizards, Druids etc etc. To be a wizard...what makes one a wizard compared to a warlock...or a warlock to a druid besides the obvious alterations in beliefs?

Once he told me, "Jake when we're alone, you can call me Anton." I tried once. It felt so alien that I never did it again. It could have been partly my military training, coupled with the respect I had for him, but I just could not get my head around calling him by his first name.

The more “Doctors” I see in print, the more I want to shuck the title. I can take it with Forry because of his innate sense of humor. In fact he should add “Mad” as a prefix. Trouble is, too many would take him literally. I may start calling myself “Grand Exalted Caliph and Satrap of the Infernal Empire and its Myriad Bolgas, Imperial Vizier of the Plutonian Legions, Magistrate Plenipotentiary of the Court of the Crimson King, Almighty Tunafish of the Mystic Knights of the Sea, His Most Omnipotent Excellency Herr Docktor Inspector General Tony LaVey, Bart (‘Bay Area Rapid Transit’, that is)”. For short they can call me “Tony”.

I can remember when they would yell “Is there a doctor in the house?”. It meant someone was sick or injured. It always referred to an M.D. In fact an old burlesque gag went: A matronly Jewish lady in the audience would suddenly stand up during the performance and yell “Is there a doctor in the house?”. A doctor would arise from his seat, saying “Yes, madame, can I be of assistance?”. To which the old blister would reply: “Yes, I’d like you to meet my daughter.”

Now everybody’s a doctor. In fact I bet there are more doctors than Jewish mothers.