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#25646 - 06/14/09 08:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Personally, I would quite like to be a card carrying member of the CoS because... Meh, why not. It's something to do. The only thing that is bothersome is the cash. As people have said it's probably not worth it, but saying that if I had a spare couple of hundred and nothing to spend it on I'd consider it.

As for Peter H. Gilmore. He seems like a decent enough guy. Intelligent and successful. If that's not deserving of a little respect I'd love to know why. I've never had the pleasure of meeting the man but I doubt it would be unpleasant and I feel people are probably doing him a disservice here. I never really understood why the split with the Church of Satan and First Satanic Church happened anyway as there doesn't seem to be any difference in philosophy. I can't personally see any notable difference, just posturing which... you can fill in the rest.

That's my two cents on the subject anyway

- TornadoCreator
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#25737 - 06/18/09 12:20 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: TornadoCreator]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1639
Loc: Orlando, FL
It's all a matter of politics. Many people are dissatisfied with the CoS because it became super-elitist and doesn't actually do much these days besides sell membership cards.

Gilmore does seem intelligent, his music is a decent listen, and the Satanic Scriptures wasn't a bad read either. However, his approach with running the Church seems very boring and business-as-usual, and has become too elitist for its own good.

Besides, with any school of thought, you're going to have people with alternative viewpoints, or others who want to do things differently. I appreciate Gilmore's denunciation of reverse-Christians, pseudo-Satanists and other frauds... but the principle reason for his opposition to the FSC is a pure and simple power struggle.

It's not something I'm willing to lose my head over, though. The CoS has their own ways of running their little club; and I likewise have my own approach to Satanism.

The only thing I would seriously choke-a-bitch over is the whole Temple of the Vampire nonsense, which is shallow commercialized cultism at its' worst. I won't get into that, though.
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#25772 - 06/19/09 10:13 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Zebu]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Just on the books note: Internet buying is not something I like to do and I am just saying that to get out-of-print books from an actual shop that is run by a Satanist, requires I be a member.
Plus discounts on CoS literature. I dont know about elsewhere but near me that is the case.

Anyway, I think Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person but is indeed, after serving as administrator for a long time, running the CoS as more of a business organization rather than an actual Church of Satan. Id have more faith in the FSC due to its ideal of following Anton LaVey's original CoS and following its general tradtions. But I think many satanists are joining the CoS for the card and the whole happy satanist family. Unfortunately those higher up treat most of the lowers like shit because they have this need to feel special as Satanists and as priests. The more satanists there are the slightly less special they become which causes this whole nasty treat others like shit CoS Ive lived the philosophy for this many years etc etc.

They are quite simply an unpleasant bunch of people that should stop being so upstuck about things. Its rather sad really.

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#25778 - 06/19/09 12:14 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis

Anyway, I think Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person but is indeed, after serving as administrator for a long time, running the CoS as more of a business organization rather than an actual CHURCH of Satan.


I hate to break it to you but the CoS isn't run by HP Gilmore anymore, he's just a figure-head. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore but he has sold the organization and it's direction out to others. On the book topic, if there was one book that I recommend to every Satanist it's "Essay's in Satanism" by Magister James Sass.
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#25887 - 06/21/09 12:07 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Third-Side
I hate to break it to you but the CoS isn't run by HP Gilmore anymore, he's just a figure-head. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore but he has sold the organization and it's direction out to others.


I read the link in the PM that you sent, thank you, but i still think that what you are saying is being SUGGESTED rather than clear evidence that The Vampire Temple are actually running the show. Magus Gilmore, Blanche Barton and Peggy Nadramia are the 3 chief movers in the CoS, and none of them are Vampire Temple members. It seems kind of 'fantastical' to suggest that the mysterious 'Magister Nemo' (a blatant pseudonym if ever there was one) is pulling the strings! \:\)

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#25918 - 06/21/09 08:03 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The ToV take-over theory could just have been postulated due to so many of its members ponying up the $200 to become a CoS member. Nothing says "I belong to something important" quite like a blood-red plastic card.
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#25927 - 06/21/09 11:40 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Nemesis]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1639
Loc: Orlando, FL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always gotten the impression that the Temple of the Vampire started out as a sort of perverted pet-project of some CoS members...

In any case, I don't quite know the facts... can anyone else fill me in?
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#25969 - 06/22/09 11:53 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: FromGehenna


I read the link in the PM that you sent, thank you, but i still think that what you are saying is being SUGGESTED rather than clear evidence that The Vampire Temple are actually running the show. Magus Gilmore, Blanche Barton and Peggy Nadramia are the 3 chief movers in the CoS, and none of them are Vampire Temple members. It seems kind of 'fantastical' to suggest that the mysterious 'Magister Nemo' (a blatant pseudonym if ever there was one) is pulling the strings! \:\)


I guess knowing who is making some of the suggestions would help in legitimizing the theory(s), there are a few who's reputations speak for themselves. Nevertheless, it's a topic worth contemplation.
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Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25972 - 06/22/09 02:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Hyperborean Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Kansas
I liken the membership fee of CoS to the collection plate... it seeks only to serve the clandestine fucntions of a few... something I loathe with all my might. Satanists seek to destroy stupidity through the intellectual might of the individual. Shelling out $200 only proves you're incapable of self-sustaining. Fuck the red card.
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#26346 - 06/27/09 01:01 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore


Honestly, why?

What about him commands respect? He reminds me of the sort of weasel who spent most of his early life getting sand kicked in his face. Then, he suddenly is in charge of something but has no idea how to properly use power. It seems to me that he got to where he is by kissing ass and sucking up.

Not that he is at all different than anyone else who does this but it hardly commands respect.

He is quite simply unimpressive. He can hold his own in debate against the normal collection rubes on TV who interview him from time to time. But, he looks and talks like a pussy. What we call a 'porkchop' in certain circles. He is hardly manly nor so clever that I am left dumbfounded by his powers of rhetoric.

I think ol' Anton really screwed the pooch. I don't know what the dynamics were in LaVey household but had he left things to Zeena and her husband (that Wolfgang guy) I don't think CoS would have ended up in such a sad state of affairs.
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#26370 - 06/28/09 03:45 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
archangel666 Offline
lurker


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 1
I was about to join, at the time though, I didn't have enough spare cash to through out. I hear it is a good investment though. Most likely in the near future I will join.
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He lays upon the nails thy which pierced him thrice

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#26387 - 06/28/09 02:19 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: archangel666]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
How is it a good investment? From what source did you hear that? Was is from a current CoS member? Naturally they'd think it'd be a good idea for others to join.

According to your profile, you're 20. How would being a member of the Church of Satan benefit you, aside from feeling warm and fuzzy by waving the red card around to "jealous" friends?
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Nothing is sacred.

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#26473 - 06/30/09 05:37 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Fist]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I think ol' Anton really screwed the pooch. I don't know what the dynamics were in LaVey household but had he left things to Zeena and her husband (that Wolfgang guy) I don't think CoS would have ended up in such a sad state of affairs.


Why, what is Peter Gilmore not doing correctly with his public presentation of the CoS? He seems to be intelligent, articulate and open to putting forward the Satanic philosophy when discussing it in various media forms, whether it be television, radio or print. Infact i would go the extra step and say that based on archived video footage of LaVey that Gilmore definately more erudite and intellectual than his predecessor.

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#26718 - 07/03/09 01:06 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1639
Loc: Orlando, FL
His policies aside, I would say that Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person, and agree that he could explain Satanism more "intellectually" than LaVey (whose approach was mostly "common sense").

But as far as the "packaging" goes, he's ridiculous. I mean, the whole neckbeard thing looks thoroughly retarded. His voice is thin and dorky-sounding, and even on the CD he did with Satori, where he recites satanic maledictions with dark-ambient music in the background, he still sounds unimpressive. I know looks aren't everything... but this is Satanism here.

But then again, LaVey left some pretty damn big shoes to fill image-wise. I really can't imagine anyone else being able to measure up to the "character" of himself he created for the Church's legendary PR reputation.

I will have to contest, however, the quoted statement that the CoS would be in better hands if Zeena and Nicolas Schreck were in charge. They certainly had "edge" to them and never shrunk from controversy, but they weren't the brightest bulbs in the box either (look at their interviews and you'll see why). Besides, they're more of ephemeral joiners than leaders- at first, Zeena was very much into the CoS and parroted their ideology at every corner, but then when the relationship with her father turned bitter, she renounced everything about the CoS and stormed off with Schreck to join Michael Aquino and his boys in the Temple of Set. Eventually she left the ToS to form the "Sethian Liberation Movement" (very original name). To state it bluntly, I really can't imagine her picking up the CoS mantle without royally fucking it up. (not that she would want to anyway, given her current opinion of her father)


Edited by The Zebu (07/03/09 01:08 AM)
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#27630 - 07/28/09 04:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
I feel the same, Money should not be the factor in my beliefs, nor do i need a Card to say what i am, and what i am not without it, non sense. Truly we are in a period of no true leadership. This is why WE shall be the ones to progress. Why not join your own likings of a church, like me, i have a small group a friends who hold true to our beliefs.
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