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#28166 - 08/09/09 12:05 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Domonic]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
As many have stated, I toyed with the idea years ago but decide it just wasn't for me.Every now and then, I also toy with the idea of trying to join other sects, but in the end I just do not really see the benifits of joining any group. This is mainly because of the geographical problem of me living in Ireland and most sects being American.I have read up on The TOS and they seem interesting enough, however between the CoS and the FCOS , I'd be more inclined toward the latter.I had some correspondence with some members years ago who actually helped me out with a problem I encountered and any one that I have encountered with affiliations with FCOS always seem amiable and respectful.
A question I would like to ask those of you that are members of any of the above groups is, what are the actual benifits of being a member? Thats not including the interactions with like minded people, but mainly I was wondering if the groups dispense literature not available to non members that you wouldn't find any where else? Also in the TOS, are the rituals that they share with members just stuff you'd buy in any good book store or reworkings of common rituals and systems?
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#28252 - 08/10/09 02:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
I am, far has I know, still a "Registered Member" of the CoS. I got in when it was still just $100, I have had freinds Laugh and actually call me a sucker for spending that kind of money on a card, some forms, and a nifty black folder. the way I look at it I had it, I wasnt hurting for anything and it was something I wanted to do.
I have no real opinion on Peter Gilmore and the current Priesthood. But, after reading somewhere in the thread that the possibility of my Membership being Terminated just for posting here, well......I have to ask why? after reading through a few threads all I have seen has been the implementation of Satanic Ideals. Ideals laid out by ASL, same ones they say they live by, where is the problem? to terminate the Membership of any Member based upon where they might Tipe a few words would be, well, Spineless Jackassery. again, where is the argument based upon ASL, words they themselves say are "Law"? based upon what I have seen of the active memebership here....I am honestly curious because I just dont see it.
The Satanic Community and it's exsistence/nonexsistence? anyone with a DVD player can see the answer to that one, it has exsisted since at least 66. there is a segment in the film Satanis, The Devils Mass of ASL in a sitting room with other Church Members(?) debateing a topic/haveing a conversation, that act alone eliminates the Debate. they got together, they got together often, they were a Community. and they still are, dont care what they call it, they do the same thing only they have the wonderment of the Internet.
TOV. I'll be honest, I dont get it. how can you be a superior being when you place yourself in servitude to ______________? How does that equate to being, for lack of a better term at the moment "Above the Heard"? and lets not go into the presumption that Myself, or anyone else, is just going to let you..Ummmm.."Harvest" us. thats just retarded.
These are of course just my two cents.

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#28254 - 08/10/09 02:18 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Two cents in the hands of someone who "gets it" is greater than a dollar in the hands of someone who doesn't.

As for the current hierarchy of The Church of Satan taking away you membership because you dared to post here, well... who died and MADE them king? And since when did OUR form of Satanism hinge on the idea that we were bound to it by membership? Sure. We donated a the cause we supported and a man we believed in. We got our ID. My loyalty remains to that man and to that cause I supported and continue to support.

So, the NEW administration doesn't like me? Ok. MY Satanism was approved by Anton Szandor LaVey. They can play that king any time they want. Kings rule in poker and kings rule those who live in THEIR lands. It's usually a pretty good position and a hell of a card to have in the hole... unless I have the ACE.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#28258 - 08/10/09 02:46 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
Indeed.
I have to admit that from what Ive seen on the outside looking in is in fact a almost Christian Like "More Satanic Than Thou" thing going on. But, thats to be expected with ANY Leadership System. after all, you are the leader, you must set the example, you must be the one who first points and CRYS "I am More Satanic than thou!!!!!" and cast aside that which you feel is inferior.
But just because one Demonizes something does not mean Im gonna call it The Devil. just because someone with a Cool Title says it's so does not mean I'm gonna buy it. Just cause someone sends me an Email saying "Your Out!" dosent mean youve changed me.
But,
If CoS Admin knew I was here then they, or a representative, were here as well. if they were ever found out all one would have to do is ask "Why are you spieing on me?". that question alone would throw many of them into Defensive Postureing or Silence.
And Ive rambled and gotten off topic...

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#28383 - 08/12/09 11:47 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Unfortunately, the CoS thinks their brand is the only brand. Imagine going into a grocery store, and the only thing they sell is canned beans and dish soap. Perhaps they have mellowed out in recent years. I know in the past, they did pop in here and look for dual users. If you were one, they cut you off. I have not been to their site or LttD for several years. They did have this site on the Bunko list when I was last there, though.

You can challenge them all you want. You can make whatever arguement you want. It won't much matter. I, myself, was shown the door by them about a dozen years ago. Others that belong here were also shown the door for the same reason. I also had an account deleted at LttD just for being a member here.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#28390 - 08/13/09 12:35 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: fakepropht]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
As I said, Spineless Jackassery. it still makes no sense to me, I could see it if certain things were in play, but as I have said all Ive seen is the application of Satanic ideals.
Thanks for takeing the time to clear that up though.

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#28396 - 08/13/09 02:43 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
Well, the fact that you can get "kicked out" of the CoS for merely posting on a forum they don't approve of or even worse, merely asking innocuous and legitimate questions on their own board (i.e. Letters to the Devil) speaks volumes about what's been going on there since LaVey's passing.

Case in point, try going to LttD and asking about the Temple of the Vampire, or even worse, asking about the bizarre relationship between the CoS and the ToV. At best, you'll be told that the ToV is simply "not discussed here." At worst, particularly if you're a registered member, you'll be sternly advised not to inquire about the ToV at all. If, as a registered member, you attempt to push the matter, you'll find yourself "kicked out."

I use quotations with the phrase "kicked out," because in reality, at this point there's not much of an organization to get kicked out of. As others have pointed out here, it's devolved purely into an Internet-based social club based around Gilmore and his friends.

For those who are curious, this also explains why Gilmore and company are sensitive about questions concerning the ToV. Gilmore and Nemo (leader and founder of the ToV) are quite literally best friends for life, as absurd as that might seem. Beginning sometime after LaVey's passing, Gilmore began promoting a bunch of Nemo's buddies in the ToV to the priesthood to such an extent that most of the CoS hierarchy today are ToV members.

Lestat Venture, for example, who owns and runs LttD and the Undercroft, is a ToV member and also runs the ToV website and handles other ToV admin duties.

What's interesting here about characters like Venture and Nemo is that Gilmore condemns people who use such pretentious pseudonyms in his "Myth of the Satanic Community" article, and yet if you look at most of the CoS hierarchy, with very few exceptions they have adopted such names considered bizarre and stupid by Gilmore rather than ever use their real names.

Ultimately, the very nature of the ToV completely contradicts every single point of the Bunco Sheet. But again, if you point this out to any CoS Priest or Magister, watch out.

I'm not sure why this is so because the CoS has at times promoted the ToV in their publications (Not Like Most, for example) and lists it in their Source Sheet.

The biggest issue for me was why LaVey tolerated Nemo and the ToV. In the end, it doesn't really matter, but I'd like to think he wasn't fully informed about it, because I can't see him personally endorsing an organization that not only condones "psychic vampirism" (not the kind LaVey talks about in the SB, mind you), but also is a Scientology-like pyramid scheme with very mystical practices. It'd be one thing to sell this stuff to fleece the average rube, but to fellow CoS members? It's very irrational.

It's similar to the case of Tani Jantsang, who has some very bizarre ideas and LaVey was definitely aware of her so-called "Dark Doctrines." In the 1990s, I'd only heard her name mentioned a couple of times in The Cloven Hoof, but I didn't really find out more about her until someone informed me of her (very bizarre) Usenet posts, which apparently caused a lot of people to complain to Gilmore and Nadramia, who backed her up in the beginning.

Basically, the CoS is a soap opera. It used to be a great way (particularly in the 1990s and early 2000s) to network with others, especially artists, musicians, etc. but not really anymore. And since this ToV business became a hot topic on the Museum of Hoaxes site for awhile, things have only gotten worse.

I know I've written a lot here (especially for my first post) but let me leave you with one last point here from the Bunco Sheet: "7. Be wary of the approach, 'You probably aren't smart enough to join us' ... True Satanism builds the ego, it doesn't tear it down."

The biggest argument against joining the CoS is the fact that they will violate this rule from the get-go. To Gilmore and Nadramia's credit, they are generally amiable and diplomatic enough, and don't involve themselves with LttD too much, but as for the others, it's pretty bad and cult-like.

In the end, you have to judge the CoS by their own rules and standards, and they violate most, if not all of them.

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#28397 - 08/13/09 03:04 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Ayemo Babatunde Offline
Idiot. Banned.
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 9
Please can someone tell me more how to register in the Church of Satan? Am from nigeria
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#28398 - 08/13/09 03:07 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ayemo Babatunde]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Go to the Church of Satan website. CHURCHOFSATAN,COM
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#28424 - 08/14/09 12:19 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Final Conflict]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
And the CoS picture become clearer. I myself had a problem with the whole "Internet Screen Name" deal. round the time I read that I had begun to notice how many of em had a Myspace page, and how many more had the little "Church of Satan Member" Graphic attached to them. I thought it was pretty funny how the very leadership was doing exactly what the top guy said was not kosher.
Anyone know exactly why Coyotel Leaybea (?) left the CoS?

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#28452 - 08/14/09 08:10 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ayemo Babatunde]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
Why? So they can give you their bank account information so that you can wire "$5,000,000 USD" into their account, collect it when you enter the country, giving them half for being so nice to hold it for you?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#28469 - 08/15/09 02:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Originally Posted By: Night_Shift
Anyone know exactly why Coyotel Leaybea (?) left the CoS?


You mean Rev. Steven Leyba, the (self-proclaimed) "Satanic Apache" (not sure if he really was a true Native American)? If he's left, I wouldn't be surprised. As a performance artist, he is very extreme and controversial, probably more extreme than GG Allin, and I doubt that ever sat well with Gilmore.

One thing Gilmore has been attempting to do in recent years (and probably would've loved to do before his current position) is make the CoS more acceptable to the mainstream and less "fringe."

I mean, this is a guy who believes in eugenics, going so far as to suggest that Satanists from "inferior genetic stock" should voluntarily refrain from having any children. What's curious is that he and Nadramia have no kids and don't appear on making any such plans, so in his own way, perhaps he is practicing what he preaches.

You'll also notice that notable musicians and artists like Boyd Rice, Michael Moynihan, King Diamond and Marc Almond are also no longer actively involved with the CoS. Diamond and Almond don't even talk about their affiliation with the CoS anymore and haven't for a long time, and Moynihan hasn't either from what I can tell. Rice still links to the CoS website, but that's about it.

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#28482 - 08/15/09 05:20 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Final Conflict]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
exactly who I was asking about. I knew he was extreme with his art, but I had assumed the upper ranks were cool with it. But he is indeed out. now if it was of his own accord or if he got the boot Im not sure, but last I heard he formed his own church, etc. or at least, like I said, so I have heard, been out of the "Satanic Loop" for a bit so my info could be way off.
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#29316 - 09/05/09 08:41 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Truth=Reality Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Minnesota
I am someone who is going through an "awakening" in his life and realizing how natural and sensible Satanic thought is. All the time wasted on trying to make myself believe in phony prophets and false messiahs! From where I stand no one should rightly join the Church of Satan or even consider themselves true Satanists until they do a TON of reading and studying on the subject and educate themselves to the point where they can make an informed decision. If you are public about your decision you will often be put in a position where you will have to defend your beliefs so you better be educated on all the facts and philosophies.
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#29319 - 09/05/09 09:51 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Truth=Reality]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
From where I stand no one should rightly join the Church of Satan or even consider themselves true Satanists until they do a TON of reading and studying on the subject and educate themselves to the point where they can make an informed decision.

There is a difference between reading/study and the actual "getting it". What is a true Satanist anyway? The distinction Satanist and non-Satanist is more then enough.

 Quote:
If you are public about your decision you will often be put in a position where you will have to defend your beliefs so you better be educated on all the facts and philosophies.

Or you could simply tell them to kindly fuck-off...
A person never has to take a defensive position about a philosophy unless the person himself agreed about debating the topic.
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