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#22031 - 03/15/09 10:40 AM Are you a Church Of Satan member?
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
Hi all, i'm just curious as to whether there are any registered (or perhaps Active Members) of the Church of Satan here at the 600 Club, and if so, what, if anything do you get satisfaction-wise by being a card-carrying member of the CoS?

I did consider joining a number of years ago when it had it's special $100 membership fee offer, but was going through a final year at University and decided at that specific time that £75 was more important to my academic needs than the old red card. \:\)

Thanks for your time.

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#22035 - 03/15/09 11:37 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
A bit of research would answer most of your questions.

However, this is a good Satanism 101 question.

You question, begs a question. What would you hope to gain by being a CoS member? What would your $200 buy in get you?

The 600 Club was (and most likely still is) on the CoS Satanic Bunko Sheet. The CoS (in it's current state) would like to think they own LHP ideology. Several members here have been dues paying members of the CoS. After LaVey's death, I believe most saw the CoS degrade into a sad shell of it's former self and they simply lost interest.

Personally, I cannot buy into the CoS politics and it's hierarchical structure. Peter Gilmore is simply a sorry excuse for a man. I cannot imagine subordinating myself to him in any form or fashion. You will find many here who feel the same way.

And here again we find another question, are you prepared to kiss the ring (among other things) of the High Priests of the CoS?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#22037 - 03/15/09 11:57 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Fist]
Grandpabeast Offline
member


Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
I do not need a piece of paper or a card to be a Satanist. And like Fist said, I am not one who is much for heirarchial system. I am already a member of a "secret society" that has a hierchial system, but the positions are changed on an annual basis or as needed to fill offices. You do not become as Satanist, either you are or you aren't. You may not realize it until later in life like me, I ran the gammet of exploring spirituality and religion, New Age, Buddhist, Metaphysics and even being an Ordained Evangelical Christian Pastor but it just never felt right. I did well as a Pastor because it was all and act, I am an actor deep down and have pllayed many roles and identities in my lifetime. Then I read the Satanic Bible and it just clicked... I felt this is me! I just wish I had realized it much earlier in my life...


Roger.

_________________________
We can't stop here, this is bat country!

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#22043 - 03/15/09 01:01 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Fist]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
To answer a number of your points, at this point in time i have no wish to become a Church of Satan member, for a variety of reasons that i shall detail. The first is the 'Give And Take' relationship that the CoS has with it's members, being that You Give and They Take. A prime example of this is the absurdly contradictory article 'The Myth of the Satanic Community' that states that there is NO Satanic community, yet a large majority of the CoS 'action' is entirely dependent on it's Letters To The Devil forum, where ex-fundamentalist goth kids get to kiss CoS clergy ass and buy trinkets from the Emporium.

The second is the 'Anyone can join' non-arbitrary dishing out of the 'ol red card to any schmuck that doles out the $200 fee. Doesn't matter if they are a pleb or professor, anyone can be a member.

The third is something that has recently concerned me, and that is the mass-affiliation that CoS Clergy have with The Vampire Temple. The ToV believes in classical 'pyramid scheme, monthly payment, exclusive information to a select few' religious cult style practices. It also has a system of belief that is completely contradictory to LaVey's writings, namely belief in 'Dark gods' that selected members can 'Commune' with, and teachings of 'The Great Harvest' that is to come for Vampire Temple non-members. Why does Gilmore put up with this leech in his midst?

So to answer your question, no, i am not willing to 'kiss the ring' of the CoS clergy. Being a CoS member no more makes one a Satanist than proudly sporting a Baphomet medallion over your Deicide t shirt. \:\)

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#22054 - 03/15/09 07:00 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1634
Loc: Orlando, FL
Not a member. The CoS just doesn't seem to be doing anything important nowadays, aside from arguing over who has the rights to the word "Satanism". I know a few cool people in the CoS, but for 200 dollars I'd want a hell of a lot more than just a red card and a pat on the head.

And as FromGhenna reminded me, The Temple of the Vampire thing is also a load of bullshit; affiliating with the Church of Satan doesn't exactly help their cause either. I personally think it's all because the CoS is too lazy to admit how ridiculous the ToV really is for fear of alienating its own members.


Edited by The Zebu (03/15/09 07:00 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#22098 - 03/16/09 09:39 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Zebu]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
At this time I really see no point in affiliating myself with TCOS. As previously posted it seems like a shell of its former self. A lot of the members also seem rather pretentious and hypocritical and strut around as if they are the be all and end all of Satanism simply because they forked up the cash for a nice little card. Perhaps in the future my perspective will change and I'd join if it suits me, but as of now I don't see the point.
_________________________
Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

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#22805 - 04/02/09 05:20 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Morbid Rex]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I'm not a member as of right now, but I'm considering it. I respectfully disagree that Gilmore is a sorry excuse for a man; I've read a few of his essays and seen a few interviews with him, and I consider him to be a reasonably intelligent and knowledgeable gentleman that has contributed to Satanism as a whole.

I don't want to join TCOS just for a sense of cameraderie or because I want to be "part of something". I just would like to be able to talk to and potentially perform rituals with other members of TCOS, among other things.

I'm still not sure if it would serve my interests enough to warrant the $200 membership fee, however, so I'm still deliberating on that point.

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#22828 - 04/02/09 09:22 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: cheryablinsk70]
DistroyA Offline
member


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 478
Loc: Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, UK
I will admit that at one time, I was tempted to pay $200 to become a member. However, after reading people's views on how it is and the facts about it's memberships makes me think again. If anything, the ONLY bit of money that CoS has gotten from me is for the Baphomet patch, medallion and pendant that I bought off of the Emporium (Let's put it this way, I don't want cheap tat, nor do I want to be ripped off or have to spend a ridiculous amount of money on a Baphomet medallion...).

Sadly though, I know someone who still wants to become a CoS member. From what I've interpreted, it seems like a status thing. Besides, she seems less of a Satanist to me, seeing as all she does is smoke pot and get benefits for her "disability".
_________________________
"A man chooses, a slave obeys." - Andrew Ryan of Ryan Industries (Bioshock)

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#22834 - 04/02/09 10:09 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: cheryablinsk70]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: cheryablinsk70
I don't want to join TCOS just for a sense of cameraderie or because I want to be "part of something". I just would like to be able to talk to and potentially perform rituals with other members of TCOS, among other things.

Your $200 will get you a little generic red card nothing more… It will not get you anything else… Facts that can mostly be learned from their website…

Of course if you would like a customized one off Satan Club card I can get you one for a little over $50… But there is a catch I only sell them in pairs… ;\)

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#22884 - 04/04/09 02:06 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ta2zz]
satansydney Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
im not a member, i dont want to be either
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#23094 - 04/08/09 05:43 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
XiM Offline
lurker


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 2
I personally was at one time extremely tempted to pay the 200 bucks to become a card carrying member, not because I wanted to be a part of something per say, but because I was hoping that being an official member might make it easier to find fellow satanists to converse with, perform rituals, etc. But alas, after enough study and research, I realized that its not worth the 200 bucks, if I want to find fellow satanists to talk with, I can hit message boards like this one :-P
_________________________
--XiM--

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#23097 - 04/08/09 06:08 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: XiM]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Sadly, XiM, it's not very likely that you'll find that many REAL Satanists on any board on the Internet either. We're there, but the same problems you would have in real life meeting other Satanists are the same problems you'll have here or elsewhere on the web.

You will find geographic separations that are unworkable, the willingness of other Satanists to take you at face value, the need of other Satanists to include you in their company, etc. Further complicating you search are those who talk the talk, but find walking a bit difficult even while chewing gum, much less sticking to a philosophy that actually requires them to think for themselves.

But good luck in your search. What you seek is out there. Just remember, caveat emptor, and keep your bullshit filters on and in good working order!
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#23108 - 04/09/09 01:49 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Jake hit the nail on the head. The wannabes, pretenders and cosmetic-satanists outnumber us by legions. There is nowhere to go to be free of them.

However, also here are some brilliant Satanic minds.

On the matter of converging with other Satanists, the problem authenticity is compounded by the often overlooked fact that even if two people ARE Satanists, that doesn't mean they will like each other. The fact is, most Satanists I have met are egocentric pricks. (Myself included)
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#24038 - 05/02/09 07:11 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Andrew Malchus Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 24
Over the past couple of months I've thought about joining the CoS. I read Peter Gilmore's bood "The Satanic Scriptures" and found I agreed with about maybe 60% of it, if that. However, I simply don't trust them, I have a strong feeling they are filled with a number of dubious characters of which I have no use for.

Right now as I see it, I am within myself my own Temple of Darkness.

/Andrew Malchus\
Sanctus Infernus!
_________________________
Going to church makes you a christian and standing in a garage makes you a car.

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#24040 - 05/02/09 07:35 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Andrew Malchus]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... the world is full of dubious characters. But you're right to keep things suspect until you know who and what you're dealing with and are sure that what you've found is right for you. Keep your bullshit filters engaged and trust your instincts. You have them for a reason. And ALWAYS "caveat emptor."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#24419 - 05/10/09 10:16 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Xaero Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 11
Loc: sweden
To me it would be to go little against the groundidea of Satanism to be a member in a church. Im my own god so i have no need to belong to a church. If i was interested so do i doubt CoS would be of any interest for me anyway. 200dollar for a red card hmmm dont sound as a good deal for me.
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#24508 - 05/12/09 10:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Xaero]
imagodhater Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/11/09
Posts: 7
Loc: Now:Ft Bragg, NC-Soon Germany
I too once considered becoming a member of the CoS at one point, this was back several years ago when I began to get serious about what I truly believed, that there is nothing out there that's going to accept me when I die. To be frank, 200 bucks would be enough to buy an HTML website creator program and you can design a website starting your own church/occult/hang out or whatever and you could then get a domain for as little as $5 a month and you can host it yourself until it grew to a point and you could make money off your own membership and upgrade hosting when you had the funds. This would be the best way to get a group together for yourself and you didn't have to lick a single ass to do it! I too would love to find three or four people out there who would love getting together and performing destruction rituals and the like. The idea of a cellar lit by candles with the correct medallions hung on the wall at their correct cardinal position with a gorgeous naked lady for an altar sounds awesome! I feel though it will take a while of searching before that becomes a reality, and my wife being in the military makes it harder for by the time I establish myself somewhere we are off to another location. So no, it's not worth it becomeing a CoS member, you get more from the 600 club for you to enjoy then you will from the CoS and this is free!!! Enjoy what you have available and make whatever you wish for yourself happen. As Dr. Lavey said, unless you get up off your ass and make it happen then it won't happen! There is no higher power who will grant a wish, so get up and get it done!
_________________________
Teach me what you think you know, I'll be the judge of whether it's shit or not!

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#24881 - 05/21/09 11:37 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
ELTOURER Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 13
Loc: California
From when I first read through the Satanic Bible and considered joining the CoS (it was merely a hundred bucks back then) I immediately reconsidered and decided against joining. My logic? Well, I always thought that LaVey would truly think I was a sucker.

I mean the Satanic Bible, LaVey’s own dictate, clearly warns us to be weary of such scams. The ol’ something for nothing, so to speak. So I figured that though he may love cashing that $100.00 check or money order he would still consider me, as a person, an easy mark. Know what I mean?

Anyhow, he still got my $6.99 for the Satanic Bible, but that’s a lot easier on the wallet than $100.00. And I actually got something for my money, so I can live with that.
_________________________
"Dad, the heathen's getting away!"
~Todd Flanders

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#24882 - 05/21/09 11:48 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ELTOURER]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... you thought wrong, but at least you THOUGHT.

There were (and are) a hell of a lot of people who read The Satanic Bible and never joined the Church of Satan. It wasn't required, and for the most part, it wasn't expected. LaVey was happy when each person who felt moved to do so sent in an application, but no... he wasn't wringing his hands and chortling with glee over the money. He much more appreciated some of the little gifts and mementos (and some not so little) that people would send in with a note of appreciation.

I remember when a woman sent him a tape of herself singing song she had created about a female goddess... "She alone has got the POW-AH, to guide us through our tragic OW-AH!!!" Musically, it was bad. But the idea that she thought he might appreciate it and asked his opinion, good or bad, spoke volumes to him.

And VOLUMES is what he played it at over and over that night. He appreciated it. Me, not so much.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25586 - 06/11/09 06:12 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
I am a member of the CoS, I have been for a while now. I would say that everyone has their own reasons for becoming/not becoming a member, none better or worse than anyone else's, as we are all individuals anyway. Being a member of the CoS has benefited me in many ways, I have networked and collaborated with a few people over the years who have helped me on personal projects in addition to meeting some life-long friends who share the same ideologies. It's just a personal thing that I feel I support, an indulgence if you will. Let me also say that although I don't post here much I do see and feel a strong sense of community as I do on another board in which I am a member. Tides are turning within the CoS as there is an internal struggle between those that are for the ToV and those that are against it. The problem is that there really is no CoS anymore, as it is merely a puppet to the ToV heirarchy, a recruiting tool if you will. There are a few though that will never seek out the "Vampire Cult" as we believe it is not compatible with Satanism as written in TSB. I do appreciate this community and feel that it is a true representation of Satanism.
_________________________
Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25589 - 06/12/09 01:07 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
Happy Birthday fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Bear in mind that you might be relieved of your membership status just by being a member here. You may have to return your card. I have not interacted with them in years, even though I know several members, but in the past, just being a member here meant you got blacklisted. Maybe times have changed. Roll the dice and bet on 7.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#25590 - 06/12/09 04:30 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: fakepropht]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: fakepropht
Bear in mind that you might be relieved of your membership status just by being a member here. You may have to return your card. I have not interacted with them in years, even though I know several members, but in the past, just being a member here meant you got blacklisted. Maybe times have changed. Roll the dice and bet on 7.


I'm not too worried about it at this point, I'm still fairly anonymous. There is nothing that I could get blacklisted from that I couldn't walk away from with two-shakes of a stick anyway. There are a few other CoS members on this forum , maybe they will "out" all of us, it will be a big party.
_________________________
Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25591 - 06/12/09 05:38 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Third-Side

I'm not too worried about it at this point, I'm still fairly anonymous. There is nothing that I could get blacklisted from that I couldn't walk away from with two-shakes of a stick anyway. There are a few other CoS members on this forum , maybe they will "out" all of us, it will be a big party.


And that in and of itself is a sad commentary on where The Church of Satan, once preeminent and inviolate, has come to. Vampire wannabes, pretenders to the throne, posturing, entitlement minded... Dr. LaVey must be churning in his urn. It also shows the damage that can be done to any organization when it becomes a free-for-all in which any deviation of core ideals is allowed for personal aggrandizement... egalitarianism by those who claim sovereignty and mastery is still egalitarianism.

The question was often asked, "Why not just let ANYBODY join?" The answer is obvious, at least to me.

It ain't your father's Oldsmobile, for sure. By the standards of LaVey's regime, it's a Yugo.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25599 - 06/13/09 03:40 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I personally have lost all faith in the CoS. I went on their forums and got nothing but close minded, arrogant, and unintelligent shit from all of their priesthood. Gilmore I think would probably be pretty good, the priesthood, No.
members of the CoS are a good bunch and they were no problem.
LaVey's CoS is dead along with him and thats the one I wouldve joined.

Asides I would still join the CoS. Firstly the little red card which is a nice little momento but more importantly: there are certain (i dont know if this applies to others) discounts and offers for books and other items by both the CoS and other stores and such for card-holders.
The only occult bookshop near me is run by a former grotto master and he has books such as the Compleat Witch but only for card-holders. Also any Satanic literature has a nice discount on it. He always says its the benefit of being a member of the organization whose literature is in question.
I dont know whether this applies to others but the sentimentality of being a member, and having the little red card, and the more materialistic benefits. If you plan on buying satanic material than the 200 dollars would be the same as the money youd save from the discounts

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#25627 - 06/14/09 02:54 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You can buy books at boarders, barnes and nobles. If you ask, they will order books for you. If you sign up for a free boarder rewards card, you get coupons 20-40% off books. Then there is also amazon.com. Hell, all you have to do is puch in occult books and a ton pop up. It is no longer the point in time where you can only find books through 1 store. You can find find stuff anywhere, hell even ebay selld discount books.

In this ecomony, money talks. I am sure if you put cash money on a counter, he will sell it to you.

As for the CoS, some of the members are good people, but with any organzation when you are told to not question there is a problem. Its not the little people in the group, its the leaders who dont know how to lead.

Oh, welcome to the club here, enjoy your time

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#25629 - 06/14/09 10:47 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Third-Side
...Tides are turning within the CoS as there is an internal struggle between those that are for the ToV and those that are against it. The problem is that there really is no CoS anymore, as it is merely a puppet to the ToV heirarchy, a recruiting tool if you will. There are a few though that will never seek out the "Vampire Cult" as we believe it is not compatible with Satanism as written in TSB. I do appreciate this community and feel that it is a true representation of Satanism.


Third-Side, i actually got turfed off Letters To The Devil for directly enquiring to 'Magister Nemo' why it was that the ToV religious beliefs were so contradictory to Satanism. Satanism begins with Atheism, yet the ToV members Commune with Dark Gods and await the time known as the Harvest, which sounds like the Vampire/roleplaying game/Anne Rice bullshit it probably is!

You have said that the CoS as it stands is being used as a recruiting tool for the Vampire Temple. Who is it that is doing this, and why isn't Magus Gilmore bothered that it is happening, unless he is directly involved?

You have raised some interesting points in your post. Thank you.

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#25630 - 06/14/09 10:52 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis
I personally have lost all faith in the CoS. I went on their forums and got nothing but close minded, arrogant, and unintelligent shit from all of their priesthood. Gilmore I think would probably be pretty good, the priesthood, No.


Atralux, i drop in to LttD occasionally (not signed up or registered or anything, just the pages available and open to the public) and i did see the shit that you took. As mentioned elsewhere, i was unwilling to bow and scrape and 'do as i was told' and not ask questions. I said No as was turfed out. the majority of long-time LttD users are sycophants in the extreme, with the CoS Clergy (Peggy Nadramia and Magus Gilmore exempt) acting like grade C celebrities and lapping up every moment of it. Welcome to the 600 Club, my friend.

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#25640 - 06/14/09 12:40 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I think people should not expect to be embraced when joining the LttD. It is their forum and things are run as they prefer it to be. It is a common misconception that being a satanist, or a Laveyan in their case, directly should create goodwill and allow people to join their happy yet satanic family. As if claiming to be a satanist directly and unconditionally obliges all others to serve the needs of a new member. Contrary to what people think, the LttD might not have been created just for them to join. Whether their approach and attitude is rewarding in the end can be debated but even so, it seems to work for them.

We are accused of the same by people not making it into our ranks; close-minded, arrogant, yada yada yada and all too often these accusations actually state 'they did not embrace too easily what I wrote'. So, amazingly, people expect all to conform to their ideas, and all criticism is regarded as close-minded. That is so egalitarian it has no room in Satanism. It is not because someone has an opinion it, by definition, is a valid one and even if, if that opinion is in its place in that forum. You don't play soccer when the rest plays baseball. So expect the LttD to play their game and if you prefer another, look for another.

This however is not me agreeing with the LttD. I am of the opinion that incestuous thinking only delivers ugly babies and that to improve, a certain degree of tolerance and pluralism of ideas should be allowed. I don't see that too much on LttD but that is their decision. If I can't handle that, I don't go there. Satanic rule no 3: When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there. Forums or websites are also lairs, which seems to be so easily forgotten. I personally think the CoS (and LttD) is living in the past, holding on to historical straws and will slide more and more into a cult.

Satanism on the other hand is a living philosophy and keeps moving on.

D.

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#25643 - 06/14/09 02:58 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3051
3. When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.
- Eleven rules of the earth nr 3.


You do not need to join an organisation to become or be labeled as a Satanist (if you want to be regarded as such).

Joining the church gives you certain discounts on"their" material?
So what, as far as I know is Satanism to be lived, the books are just a dead give away (so to speak). Besides, all fundamental aspects are almost free to read at the internet if you surf around a bit. However, the Satanic Bible and other books are best to be bought just to have a work you can relate to immediatly..
Also if you join them just because you think Gilmore is nice, you'd still have to kiss ass of the priesthood. They are a part of it and higher in rank.. And the cards are easily withdrawn also.


Edited by Dimitri (06/14/09 03:00 PM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25644 - 06/14/09 03:32 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dimitri]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
If you join The Church of Satan to get a sense of brotherhood and "warm fuzzies" from your fellow Satanists, you might also enjoy masturbation with a glove studded with cactus spines. That's NOT its purpose. Never was. Never purported itself to be.

The current crowd seems to be a bit immature, as far as leadership skills go. Anyone who's ever been in a leadership position can tell you that having the office and the title doesn't mean you automatically know how to lead. That's why the good officers in the military learned early to listen to their NCOs and their subordinate officers in the field to get an idea of what the state of their command actually is. Just deciding one is in command and is automatically endowed with infallibility is a path of fools.

And that path has been well-worn by many who have gone before.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25646 - 06/14/09 08:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Personally, I would quite like to be a card carrying member of the CoS because... Meh, why not. It's something to do. The only thing that is bothersome is the cash. As people have said it's probably not worth it, but saying that if I had a spare couple of hundred and nothing to spend it on I'd consider it.

As for Peter H. Gilmore. He seems like a decent enough guy. Intelligent and successful. If that's not deserving of a little respect I'd love to know why. I've never had the pleasure of meeting the man but I doubt it would be unpleasant and I feel people are probably doing him a disservice here. I never really understood why the split with the Church of Satan and First Satanic Church happened anyway as there doesn't seem to be any difference in philosophy. I can't personally see any notable difference, just posturing which... you can fill in the rest.

That's my two cents on the subject anyway

- TornadoCreator
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#25737 - 06/18/09 12:20 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: TornadoCreator]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1634
Loc: Orlando, FL
It's all a matter of politics. Many people are dissatisfied with the CoS because it became super-elitist and doesn't actually do much these days besides sell membership cards.

Gilmore does seem intelligent, his music is a decent listen, and the Satanic Scriptures wasn't a bad read either. However, his approach with running the Church seems very boring and business-as-usual, and has become too elitist for its own good.

Besides, with any school of thought, you're going to have people with alternative viewpoints, or others who want to do things differently. I appreciate Gilmore's denunciation of reverse-Christians, pseudo-Satanists and other frauds... but the principle reason for his opposition to the FSC is a pure and simple power struggle.

It's not something I'm willing to lose my head over, though. The CoS has their own ways of running their little club; and I likewise have my own approach to Satanism.

The only thing I would seriously choke-a-bitch over is the whole Temple of the Vampire nonsense, which is shallow commercialized cultism at its' worst. I won't get into that, though.
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#25772 - 06/19/09 10:13 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Zebu]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Just on the books note: Internet buying is not something I like to do and I am just saying that to get out-of-print books from an actual shop that is run by a Satanist, requires I be a member.
Plus discounts on CoS literature. I dont know about elsewhere but near me that is the case.

Anyway, I think Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person but is indeed, after serving as administrator for a long time, running the CoS as more of a business organization rather than an actual Church of Satan. Id have more faith in the FSC due to its ideal of following Anton LaVey's original CoS and following its general tradtions. But I think many satanists are joining the CoS for the card and the whole happy satanist family. Unfortunately those higher up treat most of the lowers like shit because they have this need to feel special as Satanists and as priests. The more satanists there are the slightly less special they become which causes this whole nasty treat others like shit CoS Ive lived the philosophy for this many years etc etc.

They are quite simply an unpleasant bunch of people that should stop being so upstuck about things. Its rather sad really.

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#25778 - 06/19/09 12:14 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis

Anyway, I think Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person but is indeed, after serving as administrator for a long time, running the CoS as more of a business organization rather than an actual CHURCH of Satan.


I hate to break it to you but the CoS isn't run by HP Gilmore anymore, he's just a figure-head. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore but he has sold the organization and it's direction out to others. On the book topic, if there was one book that I recommend to every Satanist it's "Essay's in Satanism" by Magister James Sass.
_________________________
Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25887 - 06/21/09 12:07 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Third-Side
I hate to break it to you but the CoS isn't run by HP Gilmore anymore, he's just a figure-head. Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore but he has sold the organization and it's direction out to others.


I read the link in the PM that you sent, thank you, but i still think that what you are saying is being SUGGESTED rather than clear evidence that The Vampire Temple are actually running the show. Magus Gilmore, Blanche Barton and Peggy Nadramia are the 3 chief movers in the CoS, and none of them are Vampire Temple members. It seems kind of 'fantastical' to suggest that the mysterious 'Magister Nemo' (a blatant pseudonym if ever there was one) is pulling the strings! \:\)

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#25918 - 06/21/09 08:03 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The ToV take-over theory could just have been postulated due to so many of its members ponying up the $200 to become a CoS member. Nothing says "I belong to something important" quite like a blood-red plastic card.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#25927 - 06/21/09 11:40 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Nemesis]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1634
Loc: Orlando, FL
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I always gotten the impression that the Temple of the Vampire started out as a sort of perverted pet-project of some CoS members...

In any case, I don't quite know the facts... can anyone else fill me in?
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#25969 - 06/22/09 11:53 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Third-Side Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 21
Loc: Maine
 Originally Posted By: FromGehenna


I read the link in the PM that you sent, thank you, but i still think that what you are saying is being SUGGESTED rather than clear evidence that The Vampire Temple are actually running the show. Magus Gilmore, Blanche Barton and Peggy Nadramia are the 3 chief movers in the CoS, and none of them are Vampire Temple members. It seems kind of 'fantastical' to suggest that the mysterious 'Magister Nemo' (a blatant pseudonym if ever there was one) is pulling the strings! \:\)


I guess knowing who is making some of the suggestions would help in legitimizing the theory(s), there are a few who's reputations speak for themselves. Nevertheless, it's a topic worth contemplation.
_________________________
Nature encompasses all that exists. There is nothing supernatural in Nature.

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#25972 - 06/22/09 02:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Hyperborean Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/11/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Kansas
I liken the membership fee of CoS to the collection plate... it seeks only to serve the clandestine fucntions of a few... something I loathe with all my might. Satanists seek to destroy stupidity through the intellectual might of the individual. Shelling out $200 only proves you're incapable of self-sustaining. Fuck the red card.
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#26346 - 06/27/09 01:01 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Third-Side]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:
Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for HP Gilmore


Honestly, why?

What about him commands respect? He reminds me of the sort of weasel who spent most of his early life getting sand kicked in his face. Then, he suddenly is in charge of something but has no idea how to properly use power. It seems to me that he got to where he is by kissing ass and sucking up.

Not that he is at all different than anyone else who does this but it hardly commands respect.

He is quite simply unimpressive. He can hold his own in debate against the normal collection rubes on TV who interview him from time to time. But, he looks and talks like a pussy. What we call a 'porkchop' in certain circles. He is hardly manly nor so clever that I am left dumbfounded by his powers of rhetoric.

I think ol' Anton really screwed the pooch. I don't know what the dynamics were in LaVey household but had he left things to Zeena and her husband (that Wolfgang guy) I don't think CoS would have ended up in such a sad state of affairs.
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#26370 - 06/28/09 03:45 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
archangel666 Offline
lurker


Registered: 06/25/09
Posts: 1
I was about to join, at the time though, I didn't have enough spare cash to through out. I hear it is a good investment though. Most likely in the near future I will join.
_________________________
You can burn in hell with your dead god Christ,
He lays upon the nails thy which pierced him thrice

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#26387 - 06/28/09 02:19 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: archangel666]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
How is it a good investment? From what source did you hear that? Was is from a current CoS member? Naturally they'd think it'd be a good idea for others to join.

According to your profile, you're 20. How would being a member of the Church of Satan benefit you, aside from feeling warm and fuzzy by waving the red card around to "jealous" friends?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#26473 - 06/30/09 05:37 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Fist]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
 Originally Posted By: Fist
I think ol' Anton really screwed the pooch. I don't know what the dynamics were in LaVey household but had he left things to Zeena and her husband (that Wolfgang guy) I don't think CoS would have ended up in such a sad state of affairs.


Why, what is Peter Gilmore not doing correctly with his public presentation of the CoS? He seems to be intelligent, articulate and open to putting forward the Satanic philosophy when discussing it in various media forms, whether it be television, radio or print. Infact i would go the extra step and say that based on archived video footage of LaVey that Gilmore definately more erudite and intellectual than his predecessor.

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#26718 - 07/03/09 01:06 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1634
Loc: Orlando, FL
His policies aside, I would say that Gilmore is a fairly intelligent person, and agree that he could explain Satanism more "intellectually" than LaVey (whose approach was mostly "common sense").

But as far as the "packaging" goes, he's ridiculous. I mean, the whole neckbeard thing looks thoroughly retarded. His voice is thin and dorky-sounding, and even on the CD he did with Satori, where he recites satanic maledictions with dark-ambient music in the background, he still sounds unimpressive. I know looks aren't everything... but this is Satanism here.

But then again, LaVey left some pretty damn big shoes to fill image-wise. I really can't imagine anyone else being able to measure up to the "character" of himself he created for the Church's legendary PR reputation.

I will have to contest, however, the quoted statement that the CoS would be in better hands if Zeena and Nicolas Schreck were in charge. They certainly had "edge" to them and never shrunk from controversy, but they weren't the brightest bulbs in the box either (look at their interviews and you'll see why). Besides, they're more of ephemeral joiners than leaders- at first, Zeena was very much into the CoS and parroted their ideology at every corner, but then when the relationship with her father turned bitter, she renounced everything about the CoS and stormed off with Schreck to join Michael Aquino and his boys in the Temple of Set. Eventually she left the ToS to form the "Sethian Liberation Movement" (very original name). To state it bluntly, I really can't imagine her picking up the CoS mantle without royally fucking it up. (not that she would want to anyway, given her current opinion of her father)


Edited by The Zebu (07/03/09 01:08 AM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#27630 - 07/28/09 04:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Domonic Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/27/09
Posts: 41
Loc: Edgewood New Mex
I feel the same, Money should not be the factor in my beliefs, nor do i need a Card to say what i am, and what i am not without it, non sense. Truly we are in a period of no true leadership. This is why WE shall be the ones to progress. Why not join your own likings of a church, like me, i have a small group a friends who hold true to our beliefs.
_________________________
Liber III vel Jugorum- " To understand initiation, you must understand yourself."

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#28166 - 08/09/09 12:05 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Domonic]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
As many have stated, I toyed with the idea years ago but decide it just wasn't for me.Every now and then, I also toy with the idea of trying to join other sects, but in the end I just do not really see the benifits of joining any group. This is mainly because of the geographical problem of me living in Ireland and most sects being American.I have read up on The TOS and they seem interesting enough, however between the CoS and the FCOS , I'd be more inclined toward the latter.I had some correspondence with some members years ago who actually helped me out with a problem I encountered and any one that I have encountered with affiliations with FCOS always seem amiable and respectful.
A question I would like to ask those of you that are members of any of the above groups is, what are the actual benifits of being a member? Thats not including the interactions with like minded people, but mainly I was wondering if the groups dispense literature not available to non members that you wouldn't find any where else? Also in the TOS, are the rituals that they share with members just stuff you'd buy in any good book store or reworkings of common rituals and systems?
_________________________
crabpeople...crabpeople

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#28252 - 08/10/09 02:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
I am, far has I know, still a "Registered Member" of the CoS. I got in when it was still just $100, I have had freinds Laugh and actually call me a sucker for spending that kind of money on a card, some forms, and a nifty black folder. the way I look at it I had it, I wasnt hurting for anything and it was something I wanted to do.
I have no real opinion on Peter Gilmore and the current Priesthood. But, after reading somewhere in the thread that the possibility of my Membership being Terminated just for posting here, well......I have to ask why? after reading through a few threads all I have seen has been the implementation of Satanic Ideals. Ideals laid out by ASL, same ones they say they live by, where is the problem? to terminate the Membership of any Member based upon where they might Tipe a few words would be, well, Spineless Jackassery. again, where is the argument based upon ASL, words they themselves say are "Law"? based upon what I have seen of the active memebership here....I am honestly curious because I just dont see it.
The Satanic Community and it's exsistence/nonexsistence? anyone with a DVD player can see the answer to that one, it has exsisted since at least 66. there is a segment in the film Satanis, The Devils Mass of ASL in a sitting room with other Church Members(?) debateing a topic/haveing a conversation, that act alone eliminates the Debate. they got together, they got together often, they were a Community. and they still are, dont care what they call it, they do the same thing only they have the wonderment of the Internet.
TOV. I'll be honest, I dont get it. how can you be a superior being when you place yourself in servitude to ______________? How does that equate to being, for lack of a better term at the moment "Above the Heard"? and lets not go into the presumption that Myself, or anyone else, is just going to let you..Ummmm.."Harvest" us. thats just retarded.
These are of course just my two cents.

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#28254 - 08/10/09 02:18 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Two cents in the hands of someone who "gets it" is greater than a dollar in the hands of someone who doesn't.

As for the current hierarchy of The Church of Satan taking away you membership because you dared to post here, well... who died and MADE them king? And since when did OUR form of Satanism hinge on the idea that we were bound to it by membership? Sure. We donated a the cause we supported and a man we believed in. We got our ID. My loyalty remains to that man and to that cause I supported and continue to support.

So, the NEW administration doesn't like me? Ok. MY Satanism was approved by Anton Szandor LaVey. They can play that king any time they want. Kings rule in poker and kings rule those who live in THEIR lands. It's usually a pretty good position and a hell of a card to have in the hole... unless I have the ACE.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#28258 - 08/10/09 02:46 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
Indeed.
I have to admit that from what Ive seen on the outside looking in is in fact a almost Christian Like "More Satanic Than Thou" thing going on. But, thats to be expected with ANY Leadership System. after all, you are the leader, you must set the example, you must be the one who first points and CRYS "I am More Satanic than thou!!!!!" and cast aside that which you feel is inferior.
But just because one Demonizes something does not mean Im gonna call it The Devil. just because someone with a Cool Title says it's so does not mean I'm gonna buy it. Just cause someone sends me an Email saying "Your Out!" dosent mean youve changed me.
But,
If CoS Admin knew I was here then they, or a representative, were here as well. if they were ever found out all one would have to do is ask "Why are you spieing on me?". that question alone would throw many of them into Defensive Postureing or Silence.
And Ive rambled and gotten off topic...

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#28383 - 08/12/09 11:47 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Happy Birthday fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Unfortunately, the CoS thinks their brand is the only brand. Imagine going into a grocery store, and the only thing they sell is canned beans and dish soap. Perhaps they have mellowed out in recent years. I know in the past, they did pop in here and look for dual users. If you were one, they cut you off. I have not been to their site or LttD for several years. They did have this site on the Bunko list when I was last there, though.

You can challenge them all you want. You can make whatever arguement you want. It won't much matter. I, myself, was shown the door by them about a dozen years ago. Others that belong here were also shown the door for the same reason. I also had an account deleted at LttD just for being a member here.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#28390 - 08/13/09 12:35 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: fakepropht]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
As I said, Spineless Jackassery. it still makes no sense to me, I could see it if certain things were in play, but as I have said all Ive seen is the application of Satanic ideals.
Thanks for takeing the time to clear that up though.

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#28396 - 08/13/09 02:43 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
Well, the fact that you can get "kicked out" of the CoS for merely posting on a forum they don't approve of or even worse, merely asking innocuous and legitimate questions on their own board (i.e. Letters to the Devil) speaks volumes about what's been going on there since LaVey's passing.

Case in point, try going to LttD and asking about the Temple of the Vampire, or even worse, asking about the bizarre relationship between the CoS and the ToV. At best, you'll be told that the ToV is simply "not discussed here." At worst, particularly if you're a registered member, you'll be sternly advised not to inquire about the ToV at all. If, as a registered member, you attempt to push the matter, you'll find yourself "kicked out."

I use quotations with the phrase "kicked out," because in reality, at this point there's not much of an organization to get kicked out of. As others have pointed out here, it's devolved purely into an Internet-based social club based around Gilmore and his friends.

For those who are curious, this also explains why Gilmore and company are sensitive about questions concerning the ToV. Gilmore and Nemo (leader and founder of the ToV) are quite literally best friends for life, as absurd as that might seem. Beginning sometime after LaVey's passing, Gilmore began promoting a bunch of Nemo's buddies in the ToV to the priesthood to such an extent that most of the CoS hierarchy today are ToV members.

Lestat Venture, for example, who owns and runs LttD and the Undercroft, is a ToV member and also runs the ToV website and handles other ToV admin duties.

What's interesting here about characters like Venture and Nemo is that Gilmore condemns people who use such pretentious pseudonyms in his "Myth of the Satanic Community" article, and yet if you look at most of the CoS hierarchy, with very few exceptions they have adopted such names considered bizarre and stupid by Gilmore rather than ever use their real names.

Ultimately, the very nature of the ToV completely contradicts every single point of the Bunco Sheet. But again, if you point this out to any CoS Priest or Magister, watch out.

I'm not sure why this is so because the CoS has at times promoted the ToV in their publications (Not Like Most, for example) and lists it in their Source Sheet.

The biggest issue for me was why LaVey tolerated Nemo and the ToV. In the end, it doesn't really matter, but I'd like to think he wasn't fully informed about it, because I can't see him personally endorsing an organization that not only condones "psychic vampirism" (not the kind LaVey talks about in the SB, mind you), but also is a Scientology-like pyramid scheme with very mystical practices. It'd be one thing to sell this stuff to fleece the average rube, but to fellow CoS members? It's very irrational.

It's similar to the case of Tani Jantsang, who has some very bizarre ideas and LaVey was definitely aware of her so-called "Dark Doctrines." In the 1990s, I'd only heard her name mentioned a couple of times in The Cloven Hoof, but I didn't really find out more about her until someone informed me of her (very bizarre) Usenet posts, which apparently caused a lot of people to complain to Gilmore and Nadramia, who backed her up in the beginning.

Basically, the CoS is a soap opera. It used to be a great way (particularly in the 1990s and early 2000s) to network with others, especially artists, musicians, etc. but not really anymore. And since this ToV business became a hot topic on the Museum of Hoaxes site for awhile, things have only gotten worse.

I know I've written a lot here (especially for my first post) but let me leave you with one last point here from the Bunco Sheet: "7. Be wary of the approach, 'You probably aren't smart enough to join us' ... True Satanism builds the ego, it doesn't tear it down."

The biggest argument against joining the CoS is the fact that they will violate this rule from the get-go. To Gilmore and Nadramia's credit, they are generally amiable and diplomatic enough, and don't involve themselves with LttD too much, but as for the others, it's pretty bad and cult-like.

In the end, you have to judge the CoS by their own rules and standards, and they violate most, if not all of them.

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#28397 - 08/13/09 03:04 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Ayemo Babatunde Offline
Idiot. Banned.
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 9
Please can someone tell me more how to register in the Church of Satan? Am from nigeria
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#28398 - 08/13/09 03:07 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ayemo Babatunde]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Go to the Church of Satan website. CHURCHOFSATAN,COM
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#28424 - 08/14/09 12:19 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Final Conflict]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
And the CoS picture become clearer. I myself had a problem with the whole "Internet Screen Name" deal. round the time I read that I had begun to notice how many of em had a Myspace page, and how many more had the little "Church of Satan Member" Graphic attached to them. I thought it was pretty funny how the very leadership was doing exactly what the top guy said was not kosher.
Anyone know exactly why Coyotel Leaybea (?) left the CoS?

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#28452 - 08/14/09 08:10 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ayemo Babatunde]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
Why? So they can give you their bank account information so that you can wire "$5,000,000 USD" into their account, collect it when you enter the country, giving them half for being so nice to hold it for you?

Sorry, I couldn't resist.
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#28469 - 08/15/09 02:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Originally Posted By: Night_Shift
Anyone know exactly why Coyotel Leaybea (?) left the CoS?


You mean Rev. Steven Leyba, the (self-proclaimed) "Satanic Apache" (not sure if he really was a true Native American)? If he's left, I wouldn't be surprised. As a performance artist, he is very extreme and controversial, probably more extreme than GG Allin, and I doubt that ever sat well with Gilmore.

One thing Gilmore has been attempting to do in recent years (and probably would've loved to do before his current position) is make the CoS more acceptable to the mainstream and less "fringe."

I mean, this is a guy who believes in eugenics, going so far as to suggest that Satanists from "inferior genetic stock" should voluntarily refrain from having any children. What's curious is that he and Nadramia have no kids and don't appear on making any such plans, so in his own way, perhaps he is practicing what he preaches.

You'll also notice that notable musicians and artists like Boyd Rice, Michael Moynihan, King Diamond and Marc Almond are also no longer actively involved with the CoS. Diamond and Almond don't even talk about their affiliation with the CoS anymore and haven't for a long time, and Moynihan hasn't either from what I can tell. Rice still links to the CoS website, but that's about it.

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#28482 - 08/15/09 05:20 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Final Conflict]
Night_Shift Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/17/08
Posts: 14
Loc: TN
exactly who I was asking about. I knew he was extreme with his art, but I had assumed the upper ranks were cool with it. But he is indeed out. now if it was of his own accord or if he got the boot Im not sure, but last I heard he formed his own church, etc. or at least, like I said, so I have heard, been out of the "Satanic Loop" for a bit so my info could be way off.
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#29316 - 09/05/09 08:41 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Night_Shift]
Truth=Reality Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/17/09
Posts: 5
Loc: Minnesota
I am someone who is going through an "awakening" in his life and realizing how natural and sensible Satanic thought is. All the time wasted on trying to make myself believe in phony prophets and false messiahs! From where I stand no one should rightly join the Church of Satan or even consider themselves true Satanists until they do a TON of reading and studying on the subject and educate themselves to the point where they can make an informed decision. If you are public about your decision you will often be put in a position where you will have to defend your beliefs so you better be educated on all the facts and philosophies.
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#29319 - 09/05/09 09:51 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Truth=Reality]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3051
 Quote:
From where I stand no one should rightly join the Church of Satan or even consider themselves true Satanists until they do a TON of reading and studying on the subject and educate themselves to the point where they can make an informed decision.

There is a difference between reading/study and the actual "getting it". What is a true Satanist anyway? The distinction Satanist and non-Satanist is more then enough.

 Quote:
If you are public about your decision you will often be put in a position where you will have to defend your beliefs so you better be educated on all the facts and philosophies.

Or you could simply tell them to kindly fuck-off...
A person never has to take a defensive position about a philosophy unless the person himself agreed about debating the topic.
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#29333 - 09/05/09 06:42 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dimitri]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Actually, what 'is' a true modern day Satanist?
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#29342 - 09/05/09 08:40 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Honestly, you are turning into an annoying fucker.
You are here long enough to understand the shit about no one liners.
You are also here long enough to either understand what this site is about or leave already.

Damn Damn Damn

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#29344 - 09/05/09 10:48 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Morgan]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
I'm a rebel you stupid bitch, can't ya tell?
I guess I have to puke up a load of useless drivel like the rest in order to fulfill my '600' word quota instead of just stating my question.

That said, I have looked around the site a bit and really can't find much on what exactly you are all about, so perhaps someone could either direct me to a thread or link that would clear up my misunderstandings or sum it up (no one liners though!) neatly for me here?

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#29346 - 09/06/09 02:01 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You're not a rebel, you're annoying, big difference.
You registered in July, it's September, and you have no idea what this site is about after posting 33 times.

I can't find Xear's post on Modern Satanism, but here are 2 other threads to read over.

Satanism and Dogma http://www.the600club.com/topic26180-1.html
and
Atheistic Satanism http://www.the600club.com/topic26418.html

After that, if you still need another clue, maybe someone else can help you out.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#29351 - 09/06/09 08:58 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ankhhape]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
 Quote:

I'm a rebel you stupid bitch, can't ya tell?


Hey fella', keep on like that and you will find yourself just another speed bump in the Hall of Shame with all of the other 'rebels.'

 Quote:
I guess I have to puke up a load of useless drivel like the rest in order to fulfill my '600' word quota instead of just stating my question.


Nope, just make a few well written posts, have a touch of class, and in short order you will find yourself with a blue suit. Michael A. Aquino was invited into the fold after about 2 posts. But, that is also because he already had standing in the community. He didn't need to prove anything. His bona fides were established long ago.

You on the other hand, have a long way to go. You provide no value added to the community or to this site? Honestly, give me one reason why you are even here in the first place?

 Quote:
That said, I have looked around the site a bit and really can't find much on what exactly you are all about, so perhaps someone could either direct me to a thread or link that would clear up my misunderstandings or sum it up (no one liners though!) neatly for me here?


As a general rule, we aren't in the business of spoon feeding. If you really need this much coddling may I suggest that you may be in the wrong place?

In any event, check your shoe little buddy, I think you stepped in something....
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#29358 - 09/06/09 01:56 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Truth=Reality]
Final Conflict Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/11/09
Posts: 47
 Originally Posted By: Truth=Reality
I am someone who is going through an "awakening" in his life and realizing how natural and sensible Satanic thought is.


This is a step in the right direction. Satanism is a down-to-earth, common sense philosophy.

 Originally Posted By: Truth=Reality
All the time wasted on trying to make myself believe in phony prophets and false messiahs! From where I stand no one should rightly join the Church of Satan or even consider themselves true Satanists until they do a TON of reading and studying on the subject and educate themselves to the point where they can make an informed decision.


This is a slight misstep. Dr. LaVey once said, "If you're a Satanist, you were born one." You don't "become" a Satanist. You're either a Satanist, or you're not. It's not something anyone converts to.

Satanism isn't like other religions where you have to wade through a ton of legalistic garbage in order to achieve some kind of enlightenment. Someone need only read The Satanic Bible. If you find that you agree with the philosophy outlined therein, then there's a good chance you're a Satanist. If you've been living your life according to those principles all along and it comes naturally to you, then you're definitely a Satanist.

Satanism is perhaps the least dogmatic of all religions precisely because it is a religion of carnality and instinct.

 Originally Posted By: Truth=Reality
If you are public about your decision you will often be put in a position where you will have to defend your beliefs so you better be educated on all the facts and philosophies.


There is nothing to be defensive about. As Dmitri stated, you can always simply tell them to fuck off.

There would literally be no point in debating or arguing Satanism with someone who is hostile towards it. People fear what they don't understand and they attack what they fear. Very rarely do they bother to overcome that.

But consider why you would want to put yourself in that position in the first place? And again, the only decision involved is whether to identify publicly as a Satanist or not. Unless there is some specific reason why you would want to do that, for example if you're an artist or musician, personally I don't think it particularly advantageous to be public at all about being a Satanist. There is something to be said about secrecy, and why the vast majority of Satanists choose to remain silent about their affiliation.

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#33356 - 12/29/09 03:58 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Final Conflict]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I suppose that TECHNICALLY I am still a member. I joined the CoS 20 years ago. At that time it cost far left for the little red card! However, after LaVeys death I really phased out of the scene.

While LaVey was alive, he was a centering force in the CoS. The ONE voice that all others listened to and didnt question. Since his death the CoS has morphed itself repeatedly into what it is today.

I should clarify that I have no issues with Peter Gilmore. I do not know him personally, but I have spoken to him a few times and back in the day, I did a bit of advertising in the Black Flame. He was always intelligent and pleasant.

However I do find it very distastefl that he speaks so poorly of LaVeys daughters. We all know that Zeena "has issues" to be kind. But as LaVeys daughter she deserves some level of respect. He has publicly ridiculed both of Zeena and Karla and mocked their intelligence and belittled them. That is uncalled for. NEVER should the CoS insult these 2 women. LaVey would NEVER have stood for that and was always loving and kind to them, even when Zeena turned against him. Karla LaVey is an intelligent and well spoken individual and, clearly the only reason he attacks her is because of the issues between Karla and Blanche Barton. Finally, Gilmore has been very condescending to Stanton LaVey, whom Anton loved dearly. I have nothing against the man, EXCEPT that he chooses to speak in a way that LaVey would NEVER have tolerated and if he had made those statements when LaVey was alive? He'd been up a creek!

As for Blanche Barton? I do not know her and I only corresponded with her a few times. I do know that many people have a strong dislike for her and her actions have been questionable. But, she seems to have truly loved LaVey with all her heart and took care of him in his final days. And LaVey loved her back. So in the end, that is all that matters.

So, YES I am a member. But not an active one.

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#33361 - 12/29/09 05:13 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: 111Cal]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Welcome to the 600 Club and the ranks of the "technicals." Stick around and find your way through the Forums. You'll find that there are others out there with some similar ideas and, while still loyal to LaVey and his vision, not so much so with the current regime.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#33367 - 12/29/09 06:20 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
Thanks and I appreciate it. I really wish that once LaVey had passed on that someone had been pre-arranged to take over... IDEALLY it would have been nice if Karla and Blanche could have done it together, as they said they would... but....

Or if a stronger willed and more talented person like Boyd Rice would have done so.....

Part of me still hopes that when Xerxes comes of age, that he will reclaim the CoS and get it back on track..... but who knows.

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#33368 - 12/29/09 08:57 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: 111Cal]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
This is in response to a few posts ago:

Satanism can mean a whole host of things to each individual, if they are a Satanist or not. There are some that argue to become a Satanist means the adoption of certain principles and tenets. Others argue to read, read, and read about what the religion has to offer according to authors (others). Still more are quick to retaliate against you if you do not follow their specific definition the vast chasm of Satanism.

My suggestion to you is to keep yourself rooted in what Satanism means to you, and may you vivaciously, onwardly grow.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

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#33576 - 01/05/10 08:05 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
I got a little smirk on my face when thumbing through my wallet... I guess I do still have my "little red card" in there, it was inbetween my RPGA Card and my Local Library Card. Which I will admit Is just as equally useless.

I never botherd to laminate the card, and it's still in decent shape... which is how I would hope to find it since it has always been pressed between the leather folds. Never really felt the need to "flash" it to anyone for status and those chosen few whom I trust and have looked in my wallet already knew it was there.... but was shocked it's a real item as opposed to some myth.

Knowing the Bunco Sheet was there and their standards of communication, it was easy to figure out ahead of time most members or people who had sought membership would not be there for long. The Guilt by Association clause is amusing, but understood. Everyone makes mistakes and even if you find the reality in it all and break away from the flock you're never able to go back.

Some few pages ago someone had asked "What is a Modern Satanist?" I would have to say... look around. The people living their life the way they see fit, communicating via the internet on Forums with LIKE MINDED individuals, and who are atleast honest with themselves. I have known a lot of shadey people both on the internet and face-to-face and I've maneged to walk away from it all taking from the experience what I had wanted with a grain of salt.

There are black sheep in every walk of life Satanists are NOT exempt. Some Satanists have never commited a crime, gotten a speeding ticket, or any violation at all whereas I am sure theres some foolish Satanists in prison right now for making the wrong decisions and paying the price. I actually got my AVATAR from him... poor guy.

So, yeah, I "was" a Member at one time and I still have the card in my wallet... maybe because I've not thrown it in the garbage yet.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#35847 - 02/20/10 02:43 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
CanisMajor Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
I never joined the CoS. While I understand that you have to separate the wheat from the chaff,I never felt comfortable with their attempt at personality profiling on their registration form. While I'm sure it's par for the course,providing them with an extensive psychological abstract was yielding too powerful a manipulative tool. Advantage = CoS

There are other ways to determine ones "fitness" without mining information.
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong.
H.L Mencken

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#36283 - 03/12/10 09:42 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
I feel that joining any "church" robs a person of their individuality! You become a representative of that "church" and anything that the "church" does reflects on you! I represent myself! I don't need to join anything! If someone wants to join a "church" then that is their choice and they are free to do that, but I don't think that it is necessary!
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36284 - 03/12/10 09:50 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Ankhhape]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
You can't modernize something that is something that is and always has been! If you don't understand Satanism then read the Satanic Bible! If you can't understand that then there is no hope for you!!!!
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36308 - 03/13/10 10:25 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: exadust]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Oh my Fucking evil god...
exadust stop with the fucking exclamation points.
I am sure you don't speak as you type.
So fucking annoying!!!

Morgan

(Anyone get irony?)
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#36322 - 03/13/10 01:37 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Morgan]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Me! Me!! I get irony!!!
Seriously, exadust if you're so excited about having found a new support network, we'll soon knock it out of you.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#36323 - 03/13/10 01:44 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: felixgarnet]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
I've never been a member of any occult association, despite being chirruped at by various recruiters who felt I'd be a valuable asset to their plans for interminable ego extension. The Church of Satan has been of great interest to me, so far as its philosophies and policies go but membership doesn't appeal. I think every group tends to feel smug about owning the "truth" and expects its members to share in that self-satisfied glow of being one up on the common herd. Well, I don't need to pay dues to do that. \:\)
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

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#36335 - 03/13/10 07:43 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: felixgarnet]
exadust Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 91
Loc: georgia
Really. I didn't start posting on this forum for support. I'm here to take what I need and leave what I don't. But I don't need support. I only want to learn what others have to say on certain topics. Satanism is about individuality and induldgence and I don't need people and definintely don't induldge in support from others. And if you want to remove me then do it. I don't bow before no one.
_________________________
Herein you will find truth and fantasy. Each is necessary in order for the other to exsist.

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#36337 - 03/13/10 07:58 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Vlad Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/09/10
Posts: 21
Loc: Virginia
I'm not in the Church of Satan, nor do I belong to any other Satanic organization. I don't really see the point in joining one, short of the ability to network and rub shoulders with certain individuals.

Perhaps it would have been different in the early days of the CoS, but presently, I have nothing to gain personally from joining the organization, or any organization, for that matter.

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#52093 - 04/02/11 05:25 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
DarkHorseman Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 15
I was a member many years ago, but after a fre online conversation with a fre of its members, i realized it was not worth the 100 bucks i paid. ofcourse, i was only 22 then.

It seems only important to the wanna be's that watch too many cult movies now adays..

Im sure to those that cling to the CoS, there is still purpose..i dont see it.

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#52094 - 04/02/11 05:26 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
DarkHorseman Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 15
Sorry about the two words that say Fre...i type too fast, i meant to type Few.

I will work on my typing speed.

thanksyou

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#52095 - 04/02/11 05:43 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
DarkHorseman Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 15
Cull the Wanna-be's?

I am 42, and have been moving from group to group looking for any signs of real intelligence.

Most PPl see satansim as a movie they want to mimic. Thinking they will be successful in bring some entity to the surface to do their bidding.

I am no expert, but i can proudly say i ammuch less mindless then most ppl wanting or claiming to be Satanists nowadays!

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#52096 - 04/02/11 05:45 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
DarkHorseman Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/02/11
Posts: 15
Wait a minute, i was in a different post area, why did my last post go to a different post area.

weird.

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#52098 - 04/02/11 06:21 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: DarkHorseman]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
For Satans sake, would you quit spasmodically responding to your own posts? If you have something of worth to post, by all means post, but gather your thoughts first and post it all in one go. If you need to add more, use edit.

You are coming off like a 13 year old in need of Ritalin.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#52104 - 04/02/11 07:55 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: DarkHorseman]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Echoing what Dan said, get a grip on what you intend to say BEFORE you hit the "Reply" button. We are notorious for our lack of patience and tolerance.

And use whole words, for fuck's sake. Is it really so difficult to type 'people' instead of 'ppl'? Txtspk is only for texting, not when you have a full keyboard in front of you.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#54249 - 05/10/11 09:59 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Invidious Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 11

Greetings.

I have considered joining the CoS. In my opinion they have become an organization similar to the SubGenius in terms of how they present. That being said, I am still on the fence about joining and here is why.

I would wager the majority of us here are practitioners of certain art forms that we would rather keep to ourselves, or at least only share with those who will not profane our work. To this end, the protection of anonymity is usually a good thing. The CoS and its outlandish attitude combined with the reputation it has, provides a layer of anonymity by keeping people's attention focused elsewhere. This allows personal practice to continue relatively unhindered.

From this perspective, I think the CoS is absolutely brilliant.

The secondary benefit is that the CoS requires the presentation of identification in order to obtain a red card. In a world of social engineering, being able to prove who you are can be very valuable. This speaks nothing to the worth of the individual with said card, but at least you can determine that an idiot is who that idiot claims to be.

Oh and the CoS emporium's Baphomet medallions are /really/ cool looking. Fortunately you don't need to be a member to order one.

333.
Invidious.

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#54259 - 05/10/11 12:33 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Invidious]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Forgive me but I have a hard time understanding your reasoning. You find anonymity quite important, specifically to allow your personal practice to continue unhindered, but at the same time you desire to join a group which requires you to identify yourself, and you find that requirement marvelous.

Wouldn't it be a lot easier being anonymous by not joining anything and as such, have none hinder your practice, mainly because through that, none knows?

D.

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#54261 - 05/10/11 12:52 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Diavolo]
CaNnOnEiGhT Offline
lurker


Registered: 01/28/11
Posts: 2
Even the free thinkers need some sort of companionship.
No one-liners. Read the FAQ and don't post until you've acquainted yourself with the rules.


Edited by SkaffenAmtiskaw (05/10/11 01:05 PM)

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#54263 - 05/10/11 02:32 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Diavolo]
Invidious Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 11
Greetings.

I am sorry, I was not clear in my language. I appreciate the request for clarification (no that isn't sarcasm).

To begin with, no where in my post did I say that I desired membership in the CoS. In fact, the implication in my statement that it was fortunate you did not have to be a member to purchase from their store is quite the contrary. I was only meaning to point out that they did serve some purpose as an organization and should not be entirely discounted out of hand.

I also had said that to me they have become like the SubGenius in their outward appearance. They seem to purposefully put emphasis on things the mainstream view as "satanic" in an exaggerated fashion so that the view of the mainstream will focus on that and not on any serious discussion or practice that might be taking place. This allows practitioners such as ourselves to have discussions such as this largely unhindered. That is what I mean when I say I think its brilliant (and if you look up what the SubGenius is/was you will understand that my words are not really a compliment).

Lastly, if the "Red Card" is issued in the name of an alias and the organization has verified who you are then this card protects one's anonymity while still allowing a validation of identity. I honestly don't know the particulars of how these things are issued so that point might be incorrect.

As I said, I am on the fence about joining. But 200 dollars for something that is largely meaningless probably is not 200 dollars well spent.

Is that any clearer?

333.
Invidious.

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#54264 - 05/10/11 02:51 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Invidious]
Invidious Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/09/11
Posts: 11
Greetings.

Oh yes, and lest someone ask me why on earth I would consider purchasing a Red Card?

I used to walk by the Campus Christian Fellowship table in college and throw crystals at them. Or set up tables next to them and do free tarot readings. I went to a Catholic college and it was always in my nature to be viciously contrary.

From my personal perspective, the amount of fun one could have with a Red Card might just be worth the investment of 200 dollars.

333.
Invidious

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#54285 - 05/10/11 06:44 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Invidious]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Most people here are not members of the CoS any longer or if all for many reasons. This place is not affiliated with the CoS.

So, if you want to give your money to the group for a red card go ahead, nobody cares, its your money.

I can just think of better things to do with $200 bucks.

By the way, the current CoS isn't that deep as you seem to give them credit for.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#57903 - 08/02/11 03:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Jude Leaven Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/28/11
Posts: 21
Loc: Palm Springs,CA
No, I'm not a member, but judging from meeting some of the people I have met who are members, I have been impressed by how many of them are students studying Engineering, Mathematics, or the arts. They got the right stuff and that's unfortunate for the CoS if they're caught up in internal bickerings. But I don't know how many times I've read something going on inside the CoS even when it was headquarted in S.F. and the CoS was still here!

I have read some nice testimonies about how the Satanic Bible helped followers of the LHP to be empowered and in control of their lives. I hope the legacy of those kind of testimonies will continue because this world needs more stories like that.
@Jake999: I enjoyed reading your memories of Anton LaVey, I'm refering to that particular story about the woman who sang and sent him a tape of it. That was very touching
_________________________
"I am become death,the destroyer of worlds"

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#57997 - 08/06/11 10:08 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jude Leaven]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
I am not member of CoS, but I am an LaVeyan Satanist. Main reason is following - I live quite far from USA.

For me CoS home page was good beginning in Satanism and it was already many years back, when I realized, that Satanism is only philosophy, which accepts man's nature and I found, that unawares I am already Satanist and in CoS home page I was inspired to buy and read The Satanic Bible and other books of Anton Szandor LaVey.

I personaly don't know anyone from CoS and I can not evaluate CoS. Of course I am looking for serious Satanic comunity in my neighbourhood.
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#58037 - 08/08/11 12:35 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Latvian]
LawNine99 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/03/11
Posts: 6
I am not a member of the CoS but the ideas posted on this site are a Refreshing look into what others are thinking knowing they are in the same understanding under Lavey's Satanism is great thing. i read the Satanic Bible when i was younger understood and agreed.
i think you will get plenty of insight from this page and further looking. enjoy

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#58039 - 08/08/11 07:09 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Morgan]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
The CoS couldn't get me to join if they paid me $200. Besides, "Church of Satan" is an oxymoron. "Website of Satan" seems far more appropriate. I once e-mailed Peggy Nadramia asking for the address to the Church of Satan closest to me. She asked me where I was located, and after I replied, she told me: "http://www.churchofsatan.com". Nice. Now all I have to do is figure out some Tron shit so I can go visit it . . .

JK
_________________________



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#58052 - 08/08/11 08:10 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jason King]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
When I will come to NY, I guess to visit CoS and then I will have my opinion. I cannot really judge it, if I haven't experienced. Of course I read posts and know some members attitude to CoS.
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#58057 - 08/08/11 09:02 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Latvian]
Allen Dale Offline
lurker


Registered: 05/03/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Detroit,MI
Im new here, and I'm not a CoS member. I'm 33 and I've lived on the eastside of Detroit my entire life, (except for the 9 years in prison) I've learned to be a realist. There's nothing any church can do for you what you can't do for yourself. Learning and joining something to become a follower is two different things. I chose the solo path.
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#58058 - 08/08/11 09:11 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jason King]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 853
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
"Church of Satan" is an oxymoron.
I would go one step further and say that “LHP organization” is an oxymoron. The LHP path is a lonely path, a path unique to each individual. If I need an organization to recognize me as an individual, am I really an individual?
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#58061 - 08/09/11 10:57 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: William Wright]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
"Church of Satan" is an oxymoron.
I would go one step further and say that “LHP organization” is an oxymoron. The LHP path is a lonely path, a path unique to each individual. If I need an organization to recognize me as an individual, am I really an individual?


I understand where you're coming from on this... However I can't recall a successful organization that brought together like minded individuals and have done something together collectively since the CoS.

It is perhaps best, safest, and less frustrating to be an individual and not seek others who will eventually let you down. I feel that to be a "card carrying member" these days has seriously lost face and surely isn't worth the NOW $200 bucks. Was only $100 bucks when I threw it away.

Go out and meet people face-to-face and you will notice a MAJOR difference in the quality of people you think are "like minded". I am sure some of you heard of or knew Tom Raspotnik, a.k.a. Blackwood? Yeah, I knew the guy too, I'm in Michigan and I even drove up and had dinner with him on multiple occasions until he had come to show his true colors. He was obsessed with the popularity leading a "Satanic Organization" had brought LaVey and he wanted it himself. I think he lost touch with reality and got lost on the internet fame. He flaked out and just started attacking anyone and everyone online.

My point is to just be yourself and if you meet someone who shares similar interrests, don't go and make a damn cult together.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#58069 - 08/09/11 01:35 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
Jason King Offline
Banned/Martyrdom Denied
active member


Registered: 10/24/10
Posts: 731
Loc: 65?1%833Q!92A24 (It's a code)
 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
I am sure some of you heard of or knew Tom Raspotnik, a.k.a. Blackwood? Yeah, I knew the guy too, I'm in Michigan and I even drove up and had dinner with him on multiple occasions until he had come to show his true colors.


"Had dinner with him on multiple occasions" - I pity you, sir.

"until he had come to show his true colors" - this person's "true colors" have always been on open display.

JK
_________________________



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#58080 - 08/09/11 08:33 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jason King]
Wicked Satanist Offline
member


Registered: 10/23/07
Posts: 244
Loc: Michigan
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
 Originally Posted By: Wicked Satanist
I am sure some of you heard of or knew Tom Raspotnik, a.k.a. Blackwood? Yeah, I knew the guy too, I'm in Michigan and I even drove up and had dinner with him on multiple occasions until he had come to show his true colors.


"Had dinner with him on multiple occasions" - I pity you, sir.

"until he had come to show his true colors" - this person's "true colors" have always been on open display.

JK


Actually, no. His first brain fart was the "world wide order of satanists" with global grotto's and international membership. He never once mentioned to me that he was going to re-write TSB and change it to all reflect his own bullshit. I would have told him to his face he is a fucking idiot, and never spoke to him then. What actually got me to stop talking to him was a lady friend of his, Wendy... long story.
_________________________
Forever in Darkness,
Timothy

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#58082 - 08/09/11 09:20 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Wicked Satanist]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1634
Loc: Orlando, FL
I for one can't vouch for the man personally. I've known folks that came across as reasonably amicable chaps in person, but online they were blithering idiots... and vice-versa. All I can say is that his web presence is self-aggrandizing and sloppy... I think it was that one post about Satan not liking Obama that sold me. And the ONA business, which I'm sure our Niner friends on here could rant about for days on end.

It's a very common among would-be-Satanists to fall prey to delusions of grandeur or feel they have to re-invent the wheel and "top" LaVey, instead of thinking for themselves and trying something original.

Those who model themselves off of LaVey will, by their very nature, only resemble pitiful wannabes next to the original. I think the CoS-type model has run its course, and any conscious attempt to surpass it will only end in redundant failure. The 70s are over, Satanism has gone public and done the whole talk-show bit already, it's time to pick up and move on.


Edited by The Zebu (08/09/11 09:21 PM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#58087 - 08/09/11 11:44 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Zebu]
Hegesias Offline
active member


Registered: 02/16/11
Posts: 725
Too expensive, I'd have used the Church of Satan to find friends or something else positive. If I thought I could find one Satanist who was worth knowing, I'd join, but this site is better, and free of charge replaced by the effort put in to communication and ideas presented. Why does everything have to be about money and profit, I get sick of that shit and feel time passing too rapidly to care.

As any Satanist can crop up and bring new ideas with charisma and a strong spirit. In my opinion, I feel this site is undervalued, that maybe a majority don't really see how positive the 600 club is, the strong character and profound things I have read, oftentimes, from such young people.

What goes on here is just as important as any established organisation.
_________________________


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#58089 - 08/10/11 12:03 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: William Wright]
TheInsane Offline
member


Registered: 09/16/09
Posts: 356
 Originally Posted By: William Wright
 Originally Posted By: Jason King
"Church of Satan" is an oxymoron.
I would go one step further and say that “LHP organization” is an oxymoron. The LHP path is a lonely path, a path unique to each individual. If I need an organization to recognize me as an individual, am I really an individual?


Perhaps this depends on how you define words and what your general outlook on the metaphysics of individualism is but I would say that in the way you put it the person is an individual with or without the CoS. This is also based on assumptions on what you regard as an individual and a generalization on who is an individual.

The question should probably rather be if the person is an individualist or not if he needs an organisation to recognize him as such.

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#58091 - 08/10/11 12:21 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
I joined the Church of Satan in 1994. Cost 100 bucks. I got me a fancy little red card. And a packet of information. And I was told I am now a REAL Satanist!. Part of the ' Satanic elite ' .

I want my money back.
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#58094 - 08/10/11 07:51 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Zach_Black]
BLEE Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/30/11
Posts: 10
Loc: Portland, Oregon
I know that your youtube channel (s) states that you chose to resign from the CoS. I also know they do not like any of their members publicly associating with Theistic Satanists. May I ask, did they ever approach you with disapproval about S.I.N?
_________________________
-- fl(B.LEE^3)

"The altar cloth of one aeon is the doormat of the next."--Mark Twain

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#58095 - 08/10/11 08:34 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: BLEE]
Managor Offline
member


Registered: 07/06/11
Posts: 110
-General Reply-

No, I'm not, and nor will I ever be.
$200 for a red card? No thanks.
Plus I'm a Theistic Satanist.

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#60371 - 10/23/11 06:06 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
blackflamedemon Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/11
Posts: 9
Loc: vaiden mississippi usa
no im not involved in a church or temple.most people here believes in the white light.most of my studyies are shamanism,demon/satan worship,astriajism,and spell craft individual.
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#60406 - 10/24/11 07:29 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: BLEE]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: BLEE
I know that your youtube channel (s) states that you chose to resign from the CoS. I also know they do not like any of their members publicly associating with Theistic Satanists. May I ask, did they ever approach you with disapproval about S.I.N?


Sorry to get back to you so late on this one. The Church of Satan and I have had no contact in the last 10 years.
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#62326 - 12/07/11 04:00 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
I am certainly not a Church of Satan member, though if I told you I was, no one would ever know the better. It's not like Church of Satan members can introduce you to the other members, use them as references, write them e-mails, or even volunteer to suck their dicks. All they do is throw away their money, get a small packet containing no secrets, and fuck off. They basically tell you this up front.

If you happen to meet another CoS member in your town, or online, there is absolutely nothing the two of you can do that you could not have done without the membership.

If I am mistaken please correct me with your own personal anecdote.

The fact that anyone gives a fuck whether or not other people are members of the CoS seems a little strange to me. What if I said I was a member? Would that make a difference to anybody other than Peter Gilmore and his employees? It was no different when LaVey was alive either. The whole thing has always been a transparent gimmick designed to milk teenagers for their lunch money.

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#62332 - 12/07/11 05:13 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I am no fan of the CoS, past or present, and I am pretty far from anything resembling a LaVeyan. But with that preface out of the way, I just gotta say I find your posturing really pretentious.

Unless you were there, your matter of fact statements regarding things of which you have no experience is armchair quarterbacking at best, and on top of that, the fact that you feel qualified to understand why others might do something you haven't done yourself, or what might come of these actions, is laughably pathetic.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#62335 - 12/07/11 06:03 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: Dan_Dread

Unless you were there, your matter of fact statements regarding things of which you have no experience is armchair quarterbacking at best, and on top of that, the fact that you feel qualified to understand why others might do something you haven't done yourself, or what might come of these actions, is laughably pathetic.


I stand corrected. I don't actually understand why someone would give the CoS their money for nothing. But doing it myself wouldn't help me understand either.

I believe it is possible to predict the outcome of some actions not already undertaken, by weighing probabilities. I expect to get nothing from a CoS membership because that is what they promise, and they have no incentive to lie about that. Maybe there was once a day when things were different and in that respect I stand corrected as well. I have perhaps assumed more than is true, though not more than is safe. As long as my false assumptions about the Church of Satan don't result in me throwing money away, and making an ass of myself, I can live with them. It makes no difference to me that the amount is small and affordable; fortunes are composed of pennies. You're also right to point out that I have no experience in the matter, which testifies to my sensibility.

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#62339 - 12/07/11 06:16 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 551
Loc: The Dirty South
Also not a LaVeyan, blah, blah, you know the spill but ...

Outside of giving you the red card, why is it the CoS' job to make sure any member gets anything out of their membership? Isn't that the job of the individual member of the CoS?

Saying that the CoS is somehow responsible to do a host of things for their members, is like saying a site like this is flawed for not making you a blue line when you never post.

It's up to the individual and their effort to get something out of something. Even a CoS membership.
_________________________
http://female-satan.blogspot.com


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#62341 - 12/07/11 06:27 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Also not a LaVeyan, blah, blah, you know the spill but ...

Outside of giving you the red card, why is it the CoS' job to make sure any member gets anything out of their membership? Isn't that the job of the individual member of the CoS?

Saying that the CoS is somehow responsible to do a host of things for their members, is like saying a site like this is flawed for not making you a blue line when you never post.

It's up to the individual and their effort to get something out of something. Even a CoS membership.


I am certain that I never said the Church of Satan was responsible for anything.

No individual will ever get anything worthwhile from giving their money away for nothing.

Sorry if I bothered anybody by talking sense.

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#62342 - 12/07/11 06:34 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
The thing is, what might be ' nothing' to you or I (because frankly I can't imagine any circumstances under which I would give gilmore girl a cent of my hard earned dough) might not be 'nothing' to someone else. Valuation is a subjective thing.
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#62343 - 12/07/11 06:39 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
"One man's trash is another man's treasure."

There's a lot of truth to that old axiom. What you consider nothing, another man might find to be the touchstone he needs.

So in "talking sense," you only "talk sense" to the reality you can perceive, and would someone else see what you might spend money on, they could well perceive your treasures as trash. The wise man knows this. Unfortunately, there are people who can't understand that and decide to talk out of their asses because if everyone isn't like THEM, then surely they must be wrong.

Welcome to herd mentality.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#62345 - 12/07/11 06:59 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
"One man's trash is another man's treasure."
I used to pick up a lot of old furniture left by the side of the road. In the end it just cluttered up the house.
 Quote:
There's a lot of truth to that old axiom. What you consider nothing, another man might find to be the touchstone he needs.
Yeah, some things are only subjective. But we're talking about goods, services, and economic value. Accepting your money and calling you a name is not a "service". It's not even a con. Con implies that you were fooled through trickery. When people throw their money away on the CoS they are only fooling themselves.
 Quote:
So in "talking sense," you only "talk sense" to the reality you can perceive, and would someone else see what you might spend money on, they could well perceive your treasures as trash. The wise man knows this. Unfortunately, there are people who can't understand that and decide to talk out of their asses because if everyone isn't like THEM, then surely they must be wrong.

Welcome to herd mentality.
Wise men probably do know that old adage, but so does everybody else.

Your read of me as someone whose only concern is whether or not others are similar to him makes you seem incurious, but I doubt you are really as disinterested in understanding others and their points of view as you seem.

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#62347 - 12/07/11 07:08 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I've known people that paid the fee as a token of respect for what Lavey did. Others might join for who knows what reason. And there are probably many that got the card because it was a cool thing to flip out of your wallet in the pubs. At least the first three times.

It's something almost everyone does; seek their own kind, or at least those they assume to be their own. At times it is required to join something to do just that. Other times, people buy the stuff needed to be part, or dress as expected.

I never had any interest in the CoS because it is simply not my thing. Certainly not as it is these days. But I've been part of many things in my life, for quite different reasons. And often that involved paying money for something.

Did I ever sacrifice my individuality? Not at all but if I'd not done things out of fear of being regarded a follower, I'd surely would have been one.

D.

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#62348 - 12/07/11 07:28 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Diavolo]
FemaleSatan Offline
member


Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 551
Loc: The Dirty South
Apotheosis, you missed the point of my post. An individual gets out of something what they put into it.

Sorry for the one liner, others have covered the rest.
_________________________
http://female-satan.blogspot.com


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#62349 - 12/07/11 07:37 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Quote:
I used to pick up a lot of old furniture left by the side of the road. In the end it just cluttered up the house.


Not my problem. I have enough money to buy what I need when I need it.

 Quote:
But we're talking about goods, services, and economic value. Accepting your money and calling you a name is not a "service". It's not even a con. Con implies that you were fooled through trickery. When people throw their money away on the CoS they are only fooling themselves.


And who made you arbitrator of the economy of others? If a person earns their money, it is theirs to spend as they see fit. If YOU don't like their choices, well, YOU can pay for what YOU want them to have, or mind your own business.


 Quote:
Your read of me as someone whose only concern is whether or not others are similar to him makes you seem incurious, but I doubt you are really as disinterested in understanding others and their points of view as you seem.


Look. I'm 62 years old. I learned a hell of a long time ago to mind my own business and to take care of my own life before I think of stepping in on someone else. I've made my life comfortable and it will stay that way for the rest of my days because I took care of my needs and really don't give a crap about what anyone else does. My
life is my own and it's good enough that I don't need to stick my nose in someone else's.

When you take responsibility for someone else's financial dealings, then you can tell them what they should and shouldn't find valuable. Until that time, you're just someone with a big mouth trying to make sure everyone lives up to your standards. I'm sure most here will tell you this. "Fuck your standards. I have my own."
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#62355 - 12/07/11 08:15 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
Apotheosis Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/05/11
Posts: 30
 Originally Posted By: Jake999

Not my problem. I have enough money to buy what I need when I need it.
Pretending you don't understand someone else's metaphor does not make THEM look silly.
 Quote:
And who made you arbitrator of the economy of others? If a person earns their money, it is theirs to spend as they see fit. If YOU don't like their choices, well, YOU can pay for what YOU want them to have, or mind your own business.
Certainly there is such a thing as foolishness, beyond not understanding that some things are subjective.

I admit to giving advice. It appears you are offended. Nobody made me the arbitrator of the economy of others, but I have endowed myself with the right to pass judgment and form opinions about courses of action.
 Quote:

I learned a hell of a long time ago to mind my own business and to take care of my own life before I think of stepping in on someone else.
I haven't stepped on anybody. I've only passed judgment on them. That can hardly be considered real harm. I do not consider passing judgment to be taboo. Do you? Wise men have also heard this one dropped: "If it doesn't apply, let it fly."
 Quote:
I've made my life comfortable and it will stay that way for the rest of my days because I took care of my needs and really don't give a crap about what anyone else does. My life is my own and it's good enough that I don't need to stick my nose in someone else's.
Having an opinion about proposed courses of action is not the same thing as "sticking your nose in someone else's [life]", but that is just semantics, really.
 Quote:
When you take responsibility for someone else's financial dealings, then you can tell them what they should and shouldn't find valuable. Until that time, you're just someone with a big mouth trying to make sure everyone lives up to your standards. I'm sure most here will tell you this. "Fuck your standards. I have my own."
Thank you for stating the obvious over and over in lecture form (although I'm not sure how you knew that about my mouth). Helping other people to save money may be altruistic, but it is something I enjoy. Have a nice day, Jake, and I like your hat.

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#62369 - 12/07/11 11:22 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Apotheosis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3740
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I think anyone that wears orange socks is an idiot. I mean, why would you pay for them? They are orange, and I have decreed that all things orange must be worthless.

But seriously, somewhere under all that pretentious posturing you must realize that there are more types of value than financial? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical. Good luck winning the internet.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

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#62373 - 12/08/11 12:29 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! Clearly, Dan, toilet training must have been a bitch for him. I have a sneaking suspicion he's Aquino's love child,
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#62374 - 12/08/11 12:32 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
TillTheDayIDie Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 23
I'm not a member. Though I imagine it is a much greater privilege than being a member of the Roman Catholic Church.

I think a pretty big benefit to being a member of such an organization..., is that it constitutes a pretty big fuck off to anyone disagreeing with you or who thinks they can win you over to their particular views. In that, it's sort of like getting a large menacing tattoo over your forehead. You mean business and wont be brow-beaten by the opponent, him even thinking you've accepted his stance.

That I think is empowering.

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#62411 - 12/09/11 04:06 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: TillTheDayIDie]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

Dude

Don't Be Stupid.

Believe what you will about belonging to an organization but forehead tattoos?

Empowering and showing you mean business?
I'm shitting myself here.



I say more of a target than anything else.

I may have went over the picture to words ratio a bit. I'll try to write more next time.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#62413 - 12/09/11 05:46 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ta2zz]
TillTheDayIDie Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 23
Yeah, for real, right? \:D

Anyhow, my point was less about having a fashion statement, than an easily recognizable signature: you ARE in fact this, and you're not going to become bowled over by some other fucker's smarmy opinions.

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#62451 - 12/09/11 10:23 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: TillTheDayIDie]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
Yeah, for real, right? \:D

Giggity, giggity!

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
Anyhow, my point was less about having a fashion statement, than an easily recognizable signature: you ARE in fact this, and you're not going to become bowled over by some other fucker's smarmy opinions.

I despise any group whose thinking becomes homogenized. Once original thought is strangled it becomes like any other organization with one mindset and I myself don't find this empowering in the least.

Using your thinking The Westboro baptists are some powerful motherfuckers. I also feel joining them may have more of this effect you describe than the CoS. I guess my facial expressions, attitude and body language usually work for me on anyone who thinks they can bowl my opinion over.

Of course while different thought is better than homogenized bullshit why would I subject myself to any lesser who would try to sway my opinion easily?

Being one dimensional or locking yourself into one view is not powerful.

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#62502 - 12/10/11 06:36 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ta2zz]
TillTheDayIDie Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/03/11
Posts: 23
 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie


I despise any group whose thinking becomes homogenized. Once original thought is strangled it becomes like any other organization with one mindset and I myself don't find this empowering in the least.


So, you do not belong to any group other than yourself? This doesn't have to be any sort of "official" group with a charter and all that, just a group of friends, or something you have in common with another.

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
Using your thinking The Westboro baptists are some powerful motherfuckers. I also feel joining them may have more of this effect you describe than the CoS.


Whatever it is that works for you. If that is how you wish to be distinguished, go for it!

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
I guess my facial expressions, attitude and body language usually work for me on anyone who thinks they can bowl my opinion over.


That's true. Those are all cues that can work. Philosophically, however, it seems good to me to have some sort of platform.

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
Of course while different thought is better than homogenized bullshit why would I subject myself to any lesser who would try to sway my opinion easily?


It happens.

 Originally Posted By: TillTheDayIDie
Being one dimensional or locking yourself into one view is not powerful.

~T~


Yes. But here, I might accuse you of being egocentric, and locking yourself up in your egocentrism!

Not that I'm judging you or anything. That's just a ready example people are prepared to dish out. \:\)

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#62733 - 12/18/11 04:40 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
ChrisA Offline
lurker


Registered: 11/28/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Ohio
If I remember correctly, Dr. LaVey made a good statement about the CoS in SS. He said it was an organization of people who already had a hobby (or hobbies) in their lives. The Church itself was never designed to be like a hobby or a RHP church. Sadly, it has almost become that now. You can't be a "real" Satanist unless you shell out the money and go through their motions, kinda like the churches I grew up in.

Sorry if I am kicking a dead horse here, but I guess if Anton saw the attitude of some people yearning to join the church for status and red membership cards he would prolly tell em to get a hobby.


Edited by ChrisA (12/18/11 04:42 PM)

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#62854 - 12/23/11 01:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Invidious]
Tinka Offline
lurker


Registered: 09/29/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada
I'm not a member of the CoS but I hope to be when I can get the money together.

I view it a lot like the open-source software I use; the software itself is free, no one is going to take it away if I don't donate to the company, and doing so won't get me any "value" that I don't already have aside from some usually shoddy customer support. However, because I like it and use it, I buy it. Doing so promotes the principal of saying what you have to say up front so everyone can tell if it's worthwhile or not, and trusting that useful contributions will be rewarded.

I'll admit that within my argument it's logical to assume that there's no point in donating to a company that's already gone out of business, but I'm not sure the CoS has gone that far yet.

The red card is irrelevant to me, as is anonymity unless there is some direct advantage, however I do find the CoS to be a good overall representation of LaVey's Satanism and their website made all the right materials easily accessible to me when I first heard about Satanism.

On the aspect of joining a church or organization in general I don't think of myself as being defined by the organization I join, but rather the organization being defined by the individuals who join it, if that makes sense. Rather, I will never be changed from who I am by joining a church, I merely look to it as a stage for activity on universally agreed upon goals between many individuals.

That's just my viewpoint, obviously, and I'm still on this forum because I find it to be more relevant and in-touch with "modern Satanism" than anything that is going on within the CoS right now.

Edit: I'm pretty new to the forums, so I'm not sure if I'm doing this reply thing right, but this is meant to be a general reply to the topic.


Edited by Tinka (12/23/11 02:13 AM)

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#62932 - 12/25/11 11:00 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 853
Loc: Nashville
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
Look. I'm 62 years old. I learned a hell of a long time ago to mind my own business and to take care of my own life before I think of stepping in on someone else. I've made my life comfortable and it will stay that way for the rest of my days because I took care of my needs and really don't give a crap about what anyone else does. My life is my own and it's good enough that I don't need to stick my nose in someone else's.

If I’ve noticed a common theme running through your threads, Jake, this is it: I do what works for me; you do what works for you.

I agree wholeheartedly with this sentiment. It wasn’t a lesson I learned easily. Many a family get together was ruined by me getting into religious arguments with my Christian parents. What I’ve learned since then is: 1) Don’t allow myself to get baited into such discussions (still working on this one), 2) It does me no good to keep trying to convince them of their so-called wrongness, 3) Their belief system, whether I agree with it or not, is working for them to the extent that their lives are reasonably happy.

I have no desire to join the CoS, but if someone else does then I say go for it. If someone embraces Theistic Satanism, then great - see where it takes you. If someone thinks of himself as an Atheistic Satanist, he should not sacrifice this view merely to conform to another’s idea of what Satanism “really” is. Do what works for you. Hell, if being a Muslim works for you, then go be the best Muslim you can be. Just don’t step on the rights of non-Muslims. It’s really quite simple.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#64499 - 02/13/12 05:31 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: William Wright]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
Even if it's a little late: Well spoken, sir!

As for me, I've never been a member of the CoS, but I thought about becoming one more than once. Definately this had to do with the fact that the CoS was my first encounter with "real" Satanism at all. Before, there were only vague stories about some insane cloaked guys sacrificing animals with one foot in prison all the time.

Without discovering the CoS I probably would have never known about the writings of Anton S. LaVey which reflected my way of life, as stated in my introduction.
So of course for quite a long time I wanted to give that final nod to myself and the legacy of Mr. LaVey. Still being a pupil at that time, I couldn't bring up the 200 bucks that easy and even if I had the amount there were more important things I could spend the money on.
This all lead to the decision to just accrue the money piece by piece and join some time later. Well, but before I could put that into action, I made several discoveries that brought up a lot of doubts when it came to joining the CoS - most of them already discussed here like the shady links to the TOV as well as the current administration. I wasn't fully convinced anymore after that - and so the rest is history ;\)

Oh, and by the way: For once I had the time to skim through the whole topic and hats off to Jake999! Besides your posts in general I really enjoy the memories you share when it comes to the CoS in the past - have you ever thought about making a book out of them or at least compile them in some way? It would make a great piece of CoS-history for those interested in the early years at the black house from a more personal perspective.


Edited by Erich Zann (02/13/12 05:32 PM)
Edit Reason: some additions
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

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#64505 - 02/14/12 12:43 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Erich Zann]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 853
Loc: Nashville
You’re not the first one to ask Jake about this, nor will you be the last. I agree that such a compilation would make for a fascinating read, but Jake doesn’t seem to have any desire to undertake such a task. This is certainly his prerogative, and I respect his wishes.

Michael Aquino, Anton’s right hand man in the early days of the Church and founder of the Temple of Set, did put together such a compilation – a quite extensive compilation, in fact. It’s called The Church of Satan. I don’t have the link handy, but a quick Google search would lead you to it.

Dr. Aquino certainly deserves credit for putting together such an exhaustive first-person historical account. My one criticism of the document is the extent to which Aquino colors the account with his own perspective. But then, what autobiographical account of anything isn’t generously laced with perspective? It is up to the reader to sort out fact and opinion to form his or her own conclusions.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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#64506 - 02/14/12 01:19 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: William Wright]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
Thank you William, but I already discovered Michael Aquinos book some time ago. The only thing that kept me away from really reading it is the fact that I just can't stand long texts on a computer monitor - but I might give it another try soon. I only browsed through the first pages and the affixes yet and, Mr. Aquinos personal opinions aside, it definately presents a nice profile of historical documents related to the CoS.

As for Jake: Of course I respect his decisions, but well, maybe he changes his mind someday. There would surely be a lot of people to appreciate this.
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

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#64867 - 02/25/12 01:50 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
namingthestars Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/21/12
Posts: 14
I'm not currently old enough to join, and I'm still not sure whether I'll join the Church of Satan, the First Satanic Church, or any group at all. If I join the CoS, I'll be applying for active membership as well, since I don't see the point otherwise. I've heard some concerning things about them (mostly here), but I'm not yet convinced and, if I can afford it when I turn 18, will probably want to try joining to find out what they're like firsthand and whether or not I like being a member.
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#64904 - 02/25/12 11:15 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: namingthestars]
Zach_Black Offline
member


Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
Dude save your money. The Church of Satan is defunct. Everyone with any individuality left. I ain't just talking sideways out my ass man. I was a member from 1994-2010. I paid 100 bucks back then. The CofS is not the same as it was when Anton was in charge. Now it is simply a money making scam.


But you gotta ask yourself why you really want to join. And this goes for any organization. Are you looking for status? Are you looking for an identity? Are you hoping to connect with other like minded individuals?

If you answer yes to any of these questions then you are looking in the wrong place. Save your money. Buy a hooker,some blow or a gallon of your favorite booze. You will get more outta it. The CofS is an internet site that sells identity red cards. Unless that is what you want save your money. Or spend it on something useful.


Edited by blackzach (02/25/12 11:18 PM)
_________________________
http://satanicinternationalnetwork.com/

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#66569 - 05/05/12 08:13 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: namingthestars]
FreeWill Offline
lurker


Registered: 05/03/12
Posts: 3
Back in the nineties, I was an underaged boy interested in Satanism, mainly because of my rock'n'roll roots. That's the first time I've heard about CoS, and I even thought of joining it.

More than 10 years passed and I didn't join, probably never will. I just feel some things have not been put in their place like the need to.

First of all, bunco sheet of CoS explaining to me why the price is so high (or low, depending on someones standards, to me and my country standard it's really high). That's that part that's saying to potential member to think about all the belongings he has.

Second of all, I have a problem of ''church'' in CoS name. I would have the same problem with ''Mosque of Satan''. Temple is more like it, I'm being subjective here, but it's my own opinion.

Third and final, what do you REALLY get as a member? Chance to know Satanists? Get a red card? Get a discount while buying books? I don't see myself joining the grotto here in Bosnia since there aren't any and I don't really think that joining AN ORGANIZATION can do anything for my INDIVIDUALISM training. Also, if you're into it for 10% discounts on books... Spare 200$ for joining fee and you'll feel OK for buying books for their real price.

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#66573 - 05/05/12 10:39 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FreeWill]
totoblack Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/28/12
Posts: 9
Loc: Canada
I see both points of view, like i can totally see that it seems lame that a bill will get u a membership, to say U R NOW A SATANIST lol, but on the other hand i guess u could interact with more satanist in your area. for example now that im a member of the 600 club im hoping to find a Satanist community around Toronto, people i could meet in person, and broaden my views.
_________________________
Music is the strongest form of Magic. x Marilyn Manson

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#66575 - 05/05/12 10:52 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: totoblack]
Erich Zann Offline
member


Registered: 02/01/12
Posts: 193
Loc: Germany
With your grammar and writing skills I would rather suppose that you either won't last long in here or at least won't have a happy time.

@FreeWill: Though I don't agree with every single point you made, you're right when it comes to the fact that you really gain nothing at all from a membership besides the card. But okay, the CoS never claimed other things.
_________________________
The Pledge of Allegiance does not end with "Hail Satan!".

-Bart Simpson

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#67280 - 06/13/12 07:21 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Erich Zann]
MrGoat Offline
lurker


Registered: 06/10/12
Posts: 2
I am a member. It was one of those things, I glorified it more than it's really worth. As some of us, I figured out I was Satanists before the legal age of joining the organization. So right when I hit 18, I had the spare cash saved away and just went for it. At the time it was totally worth it; I just moved out, I started at a University, and it was just exciting to officially identify myself.

Now that I'm older would I do it again? Hell no. As people have already stated in this thread, the old CoS is gone. The last thing they need is more money.

But hey, now I have a neat little card with my name on it... right? I'm still waiting for the day that I can actually use it for benefit... Hah!



Edited by MrGoat (06/13/12 07:47 AM)

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#67290 - 06/13/12 01:41 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: MrGoat]
The Riddler Offline
lurker


Registered: 06/02/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Florida
I contemplated giving the CoS $200 but like someone else on here mentioned, it seemed to be a money making scam. Not enough of those around these days, right? I don't need a red card to make me feel like I'm a part of something. If I wanted a red card I would play soccer and punch people in the face.
_________________________
If you're living the dream, I guess that means I must be living the nightmare.

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#67634 - 06/22/12 10:30 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Riddler]
Dagusu Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/02/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Nuevo León, México
When I was younger I did contemplate the idea of paying to get the red card for I found the Satanism as a new and interesting world I wanted to be a part of... and I'm glad I didn't pay for it, as I got older and read more about Satanism I realized how rotten the present CoS is, I realized I didn't have to spend $200.00 to be a part of something filled with a bunch of people I'll never get the chance to meet nor to talk to in my entire life.

If what you pursuit by getting the red card is to talk and to get in touch with people with similar ideologies you're wasting your money and time for you can do the same here for free.

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#68558 - 07/08/12 07:01 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dagusu]
Robert Paulson Offline
pledge


Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 99
Loc: Montana, America
I spent some time reading every post and every page on this topic. I have contemplated for years reaching out to others and that contemplation involved weighing a membership in the Church of Satan. Some of you are members, but the replies of the non-members and especially the ex-members (Zack Black) have persuaded me to avoid that particular avenue. The 600 Club seems like a good place for me to be right now. Thanks for all the insight, you folks are all right.
_________________________
Satan watches all of us and smiles as some do his bidding. - Jeff Hanneman (1983)

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#68648 - 07/10/12 11:24 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Robert Paulson]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
 Originally Posted By: Robert Paulson
... the replies of the non-members... The 600 Club seems like a good place for me to be right now.
Yes, I'm not member of CoS, because of geographical reasons - US is too far for me now and small misunderstanding - I could become a member if they had regular meetings or regular rituals like they held at 6.6.6. It could be good reason for me - at last visit Your country, but CoS don't have such thing regular meetings or common events ... \:\) I think CoS is Your choice!

You’re glad to be in the 600 Club – I too! I'm here almost 1 year and in reality I found this place very useful for me - I like to be here and contact with LHP people, take part in discussions etc. - I think, I've grown in my satanic stance during this year more than during 10 years before….
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#68703 - 07/11/12 10:25 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Latvian]
Hugoroth Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 4
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
I admit, I have tossed it over in my mind also about buying the red card but then again that's all you get is what I am hearing. I guess the 200 is to weed out the people who only want the title. Unless you wanna be a active member and be a media contact for the subject and do alot for CoS its not worth $200 buck for something you can photoshop. My other concern was privacy when they mail you your card. I am wondering if the return address will say "Church of Satan". I have hardcore christian roomates and dont have the cash to move.
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#68705 - 07/11/12 10:50 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: The Riddler]
Prion Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/27/12
Posts: 26
 Originally Posted By: The Riddler
If I wanted a red card I would play soccer and punch people in the face.

Muahahahhaa! Dayum...

Personally, if I wanted to belong to a community of believers united by a common set of propositional dogmata, I would convert to Christianity and recite the fucking Nicene Creed every Sunday.

All together now: "We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth..." (Cue the Borg.)

Meh, give me doubt, and fuck sharing in beliefs for belonging. Just another reason why the Gilmore-headed Church of Satan and Ventrue's LttD is a carcass of conformity. They forget that the title of The Satanic Bible was ironic, just as The Church of Satan itself was (although I'm sure Dr Aquino would beg to differ)...


To answer the question of this thread: No, I stay away from churches. \:D

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#68726 - 07/12/12 05:04 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Prion]
Latvian Offline
member


Registered: 07/15/11
Posts: 475
Loc: EU, Latvia, Riga (old town)
In reality I'm sad about CoS, because Church of Satan loses the reputation, impact and power. 200,- US$ for membership paper without real activities and true community aren't serious... Of course in theory and on the paper for people, who don't do serious investigations about CoS can seem, that CoS is very important satanic institution. First i read http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/Affiliation.html CoS seemed OK for me!

Of course - It is my impression and it can be relative and not objective, because I live so far from US and maybe I don't evaluate enough CoS influence...
_________________________
In Sorte Diaboli

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#70691 - 09/08/12 01:58 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Latvian]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
Negative. I simply don't agree with all of the principles expounded by the Church of Satan in 2012. I think I would have enjoyed the early days. I have nothing against Peter Gilmore. If the Satanic Scriptures topic reappears, I'd give the music section a stellar review. I am somewhat partial to the First Satanic Church and the Temple of Set (for different reasons). With any organization, you have to read the organizing principles with great care. I think they're pretty succinct at this point.
_________________________
Apres Moi ... Le Deluge

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#70692 - 09/08/12 03:07 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Grandpabeast]
D_Kindle Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/28/12
Posts: 13
Loc: South Carolina
My experiences are similar to Grandpabeast's. I've explored many aspects of religion and many denominations of xianity but nothing clicked like Lavey's writings. I am not a card carrying member as my practice is spiritual but my love and respect for Dr. Lavey will never wane.
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#71334 - 09/27/12 10:12 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
I am not a member, and cannot foresee a time when I would choose membership. The CoS doesn't do anything for me that I cannot do myself, much less providing a vehicle for anything meaningful or doing anything important.

It's become a money sink for the mundane who want to seem edgy to the utterly mundane, and I doubt that any authentic Satanists exist within the CoS hierarchy for long.

I can snort blow off a hooker's wet fucked ass cheaper than I can get a red card and a thumbs up from an organization of mundanes. Why would I bother with them?

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#71359 - 09/28/12 05:45 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Jake999]
MaProprePersonne Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/01/12
Posts: 7
Loc: Nebraska
I honestly and willingly would take place in the First Satanic Church if the position arose, as of rights now this is as far as I have gone inside of myself and the boundaries I had made for myself...but all that has changed and I have told myself there is no reason to hide what makes me feel whole, what makes me feel as if there is some kind of hope and reason with religion and myself.
_________________________
Ma_Proper_Personne

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#81670 - 10/28/13 09:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
CBurgert Offline
lurker


Registered: 10/12/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Pa
I am a member of the Church of Satan, I speak for myself and what I am posting is just my opinion as I do not speak for them. That being said. All the people crying about the cost of joining and it's just a card and blah blah blah. You just don't get it. The cost is high to keep you pseudo-Satanists out, we don't want you anyway. The red card is a just a key, when I joined I wasn't interested in a red card that was the last thing on my mind. If you want to join for a card, your nuts and probably not worth the CoS's time anyway.
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#81683 - 10/28/13 05:09 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: CBurgert]
numen Offline
member


Registered: 09/09/12
Posts: 218
 Originally Posted By: CBurgert
I am a member of the Church of Satan, I speak for myself and what I am posting is just my opinion as I do not speak for them.


You're a member though, right? Why do you have to throw a disclaimer?

 Quote:
All the people crying about the cost of joining and it's just a card and blah blah blah. You just don't get it.


I agree with you. If somebody likes the Church of Satan's ideas and 200 bucks is what holds them back that's pretty sad. 200 bucks is chicken feed.

 Quote:
The cost is high to keep you pseudo-Satanists out, we don't want you anyway.


Wait, 200 bucks is a high cost to you? I thought you guys were about material success. I kind of think you must be trolling here. Anyway, I'm not sure that the Church of Satan offers people much. What would you say are the benefits of being a member of the CoS?

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#81693 - 10/28/13 07:39 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: CBurgert]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered



Bullshit, the $200.00 is the cost of a membership because that’s what the Church requires to pay its way as an organisation. It makes perfect sense: the Church has certain costs and it requires a certain income to meet those costs. The reason why there is a $200.00 membership fee is because the hierarchy has determined that it needs members to pay that much in order to cover the Churches ongoing costs.

I don’t even think the $200.00 fee even relates to stratification, as some of the Churches hierarchy on LTTD like to assert. Any person (besides maybe a homeless person) could raise $200.00 in time. Even a committed kid, putting aside their pocket money, could achieve this, though it might take them a while.

If stratification was the main reason for the membership fee then the Churches hierarchy would set the membership fee, so much higher, in order to guarantee that stratification actually occurred.

What annoys me here though is the notion that only pseudo-Satanists are here or in some of the other sites we know of.

I would stack this group of people up against the C/S hierarchy any fucking time and I am damned sure who would win a debate on Satanism and its meaning, if such a debate took place.

Burget, I challenge you to grow and put yourself to the test, in this place and others of the same sort, by spending some time here and explaining your views and defending them against others here.

If you’re not prepared to do this, then piss off.

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#81702 - 10/28/13 10:11 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
I’d go so far as to suggest that joining has the inverse effect… $200 is $200 – sure it may be a tithe, but that’s groceries for a week. A penny saved is a penny earned.

Choose well.

If I happened to have an organization set up in such a way I’d use the membership fee as a way to clearly discern who is simply not listening. “Thanks for the money, and PS – you haven’t learned a thing”

Don’t forget – Mark Twain was a “satanist” as was PT Barnum and Jacques de Plancy… did they join?

Alright.

They couldn’t have and even if they *could* I am doubtful that they would.

This applies to both – you’re not going to find any Satanist aspiring to Magister any more so that you’re going to find a Satanist kowtowing to Myatt’s terrorist agenda. *and don’t get it fucked up, he’s basically dragging you down to the same level – at the end of the day it’s just chess-playing thugs with some fancy words at best(!)

“whatever it is I'm against it” and that includes “you” or any notion of “US”

My money belongs in my pocket. Rubes.
_________________________
Angelic harlequins and sinister clowns.

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#81704 - 10/28/13 10:39 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: antikarmatomic]
MatthewJ1
Unregistered




I’m not sure I have completely followed your meaning.

Well sure, I mean Stanton Carlisle, Rasputin and Cagliostro were almost role models for LaVey.

Maybe the Church was set up as a money making scheme or designed as a sort of lesson for Satanists i.e. are you a rube or not and if so then pay up.

The assumption here is that the true Satanist with his Stan Carlisle like cynicism and steely gaze knows the score enough to not pay for a membership, in the first place, as the admittance payment for the show are solely for the rubes to shoulder.

Don’t know man, I have spoken with a few people here and elsewhere, who I reckon knew the score and they have said that the Doktor meant it sincerely. I am going to leave it at that as this whole damned thing has been worked over and over so many times in the online community.

Maybe Burget will respond with some quality?

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#81751 - 10/30/13 09:49 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: ]
antikarmatomic Offline
BANNED
stalker


Registered: 09/22/13
Posts: 3208
Loc: El Mundo
Well I’ve been on the fence but ultimately declined.
I definitely enjoy the literature, and like to think it is actually doing positive things.

It is not so much about the money… I mean every year I donate 3 times that cost to charity and have been doing so for the last 12 years. $200 is a tithe; I spend that on vending machines’ snack in two months – easily.

For me it is almost like “wait, this must be a test at best or more likely a ruse”.

For as self-interested as a Satanist is supposed to be I find it highly amusing that there’s this sort of “oh and by the way – send $200 to join – we can’t promise you anything, but just saying”

For me even $5 is valuable. Even when I spend $2.00 on generic store-brand coffee I at least know what I’m getting.
Simply put – it’s not that I’m poor… actually I do pretty well for myself… but I do remember what it was like to scrounge couch cushions for gas money. *I even found a few pretzels too… and they never go bad ;\)

So $200 to contribute to a cause I believe in? meh, how about write more books and if I decide to buy them consider that your reward. A fair exchange.

I mean I may as well sell mystery boxes on e-bay “I can’t tell you what’s in them, but unless you buy it you’ll never know”
What’s super fucked-up and interesting is that shit actually works! Some schmuck *would* buy it… actually enough schmucks who don’t know how to handle their finances would to where I’d be wealthy in ways that would amaze me.

Criticize those who buy into it all you like – I wouldn’t care – I’d be laughing all the way to the bank. No skin off my nuts.
Anyway, what’s amusing to me is that there were in no uncertain terms stated again and again ”there’s a sucker born every minute” yet in spite of all this, people actually go through the financial and intellectual rigmarole even after having read the caveats. It just doesn’t compute.

“Tax the churches” yet file as a non-profit – C/S

Which one is it?

Every man for himself, purchasing identity, how sheep-like… but by the way, here’s an application – make check payable to____...
Honestly, even if it were 2 cents… I’d question it… in fact I do.
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#81757 - 10/31/13 01:37 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Asura Dasi Offline
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Registered: 09/02/13
Posts: 17
While I am not (nor likely to be) a future member of the Church of Satan, it would stand to consideration that their $200 one-time registered membership fee (with no additional fees forthcoming for active membership as specified on their website) is still a relative bargain compared to the ten-percent of gross income on an ongoing basis required by Nazarene institutions.

On the other hand (as the CoS membership fee seems to be a repeated issue in concern to membership considerations relating to the same in this thread) the adherents of "anti-cosmic", "Qayanite" philosophy as promoted by Ixaxaar Occult Literature (and subsidiaries such as Calvary Cross Botanica) who are shilling out hundreds of euros per each limited edition, specially consecrated, etc. book or fetish item seem to be the more current wronged party, fiscally speaking and trend-wise, than any demographics that the CoS or ToV may be able to rally in regard to the larger LHP at present.


Edited by Asura Dasi (10/31/13 01:39 AM)

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#81912 - 11/03/13 05:52 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
Spinx Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 8
Loc: Illinois
I'm not a member anywhere that you have to pay to be a member. Why would you spend money on something that is free?
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#81915 - 11/03/13 07:43 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Spinx]
Zach_Black Offline
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I do understand the need for a membership fee. The shit does not pay for itself. 200 dollars seems a little high. But I do not know the overhead of running the CoS. When I joined in 1994 it was 100 dollars. I corresponded with the CoS a few times through snail mail. Hard to imagine the cost and time they invested adds up to 100 dollars.

People join for different reasons. To each their own I guess. If your reason is to meet like minded Satanists you are wasting your time and money joining the Church of Satan. There are various forums/networks that are free.
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#81924 - 11/04/13 03:56 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Spinx]
Dimitri Offline
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Posts: 3051
 Originally Posted By: Spinx
I'm not a member anywhere that you have to pay to be a member. Why would you spend money on something that is free?

It's a consumerist thing.
The real trick is finding out if the organization is worth the investment. The only organization I joined by paying a members fee is the Sect of the Horned God. I support their cause and within the inner circle a few good products are available. For the amount of money I paid it was worth the effort.

Like most organizations who work this way, the correct approach to make it worthwhile is through contribution. Doing nothing in hopes of getting noticed generally leads to nowhere.
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#81935 - 11/04/13 03:47 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Dimitri]
Zach_Black Offline
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The 25 dollar membership fee is absorbed into the administration cost to keep the Sect of the Horned God running. Such costs include but are not limited to the parchment paperwork they send out. The several events they put on yearly at the winery. They sometimes fly people out or help members financially to help get them out here for events. The Sect also sometimes sends out merchandise.

If you are a Sect member and make it to an event you get in for free and can stay over night on the winery. Substantial discounts on food and drinks. Discounts on merchandise.

After living here for a month with the Sect on the winery, I can tell you this. It takes a lot of work to run it. Thomas LeRoy and Mistress Babylon spend hours a day each working on the Sect.

I can't speak for all satanic organizations. But, this is the only one I am part of.
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#81953 - 11/05/13 11:18 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
SIN3 Offline
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I think it's less about the Sect and more so the impact LeRoy has had on people. I say, thumbs up to him for managing to grab a few people and turn their minds around.

There was a time when the idea of joining a group was for sheep, stupid and appalling to those I've seen join.

There was a time when hanging out with 'pagans' was thought to be for fluffy white-lighters and retards.

Individuation vs. group identity was prime and yet, I see people donning the Sect symbol like a badge of honor.

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#81954 - 11/05/13 12:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Zach_Black Offline
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Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
 Originally Posted By: FemaleSatan
Are you two actually using a topic about the CoS to advertise The Sect of the Horned God and talk about how great it is?



Actually it is quite relevant. Both the CoS and Sect of the Horned God are established organizations. When the topic came up regarding membership fees I see no problem contrasting the benefits and cost between the two. We all know if I would have contrasted the CoS and say the Temple of Set or the First Church of Satan you would not be bitching.

I have only been a member of two satanic organizations. The Church of Satan and The Sect of the Horned God. I have no interest or clue about the others.


Edited by Zach_Black (11/05/13 12:22 PM)
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#81957 - 11/05/13 01:12 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Zach_Black]
Mistress Babylon Offline
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I'm not a fan of the CoS in it's present incarnation, but have certainly supported and understand why they, or any other organization, implement a membership fee.

While it does cover a portion of the administration costs, more importantly the fee provides a barrier (for the most part) against those who 'join for the sake of joining', and maintains some semblence of control during the membership process.

The CoS is strict on how they are represented by their members and I applaud them on that, whether I agree with their mandate or not. It's their entity, they can run it how they want.
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#81972 - 11/05/13 10:38 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
antikarmatomic Offline
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In summary - I don't need to necessarily "belong" to any organization to meet "like minded individuals" - this is free to all. That's where it got a bit f'n outdated... this isn't the 70s anymore - it is free dialogue where there would have been none before, and well... it is just the way of things.

As for meeting, and exchanging of goods / pleasures... eh... that's not satanic at all... that's just me doing my dirt.

Supposed Christians do the same too.

Considering that there are some atheists out there who would even give me pause, I am highly doubtful I need to join anything to gain much of anything to meet some sort of pseudo-mythological elite. If you want to join something that may have a great number of secrets and yield you some profit - fuckit, just join a gang. It is easier... but I would highly caution that once you *do*... stay the f off the interwebz. That RICO act is not a thing to be taken lightly. \:\/

Which is my beef with this O9A propaganda... illegality and murder... how utterly ridiculous can one possibly be to ascribe that shit to Satanism? The ONLY thing that shit could possibly serve to do is put us ALL under the same legislative umbrella when and if push comes to shove.

And like... it's seriously overlook-able that David Myatt is Muslim? "Insight role?" then "why blow your cover?" 'prolly for the same reasons anyone that gets bagged by the feds promises to co-op for a lighter sentence. Lulz? you wanna HAVE to turn informant? yeah, me neither.

I susepect anything as public as the O9A is a honeynet... like it's fucking obvious... and if it ain't... well... don't be surprised what comes next... even if you are innocent... they got mouths to feeds too... and an arrest is an arrest. Job validated - and easy too! it was just some 14 year kid \:D

So this is a way to make sure no one has to play Sabu... and it's simple - if it's illegal, just fucking shut the fuck up about it. How hard is that? That covers both the people who are legitimately law abiding as well as those who are not - seriously... it's a win-win. Seriosuly, you're not opening my eyes by talking about it, I've seen a few people get murdered, and honestly, it ain't as cool as you describe.

In not so many words and terms the 09A is no more "satanic" than jihad-is are.

When they do something stupid (and ya know it is only a matter of time)... we're all pretty much going to take that heat.

In this way the C/S is smart. The membership fee is much ($200 is $200 bucks) BUT... they're the only ones with brains enough NOT to back illegal activity and you end up with a $200 debit that proves you're down with what they state... and they've stated it plainly.

Actually, I'll take it one step back! whatever stupid shit some kid is bound to do on account of this will have no consequences whatsoever on this O9A (that doesn't exist)... and have all the impact on "satanists" everywhere.

Now we gotta explain ourselves? For thinking different? for questioning what is ethical? No - there's an ethos plainly stated... we ain't about this. Not killing, not any of that bullshit. That too is not what Satanism about... that shit is you doing your own dirt, so keep "us" the fuck out of it.

The O9A is a criminal/mythological organization that is not nor ever will be satanic. You can bounce with your pretenses.

That's not watered-down, that's common-sense. Blabbering on-line about culling... that is literally the most retarded and reckless thing I've seen to date, especially in consideration of the way things have been revealed to be on these interwebz.

If you're about it - you sure as shit ain't smart to speak to it, and if you ain't about it, then why say anything?

The innocuous "metadata" - shit, like it or not I'm linked to you and you to me... you best show some down-ness... and don't expect much trust even if you did.

I get it. That's the way of business and brotherhoods.

Still... if you preach individuality... perhaps it would be best my ties to you not incriminate you, nor your ties to me incriminate you... and if we're about what we're about... well... speak in the real world. Otherwise all this is digital hypothetical - the shit we do when we're tired of playing video games yet for the same reasons.

I see it as a sorta "he might be cool"... and figure... "no offense, given the nature of things, I'm better off alone anyway but thanks" and additionally... I'll blow pera as I please. ;\)



Edited by antikarmatomic (11/05/13 11:36 PM)
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#81974 - 11/06/13 12:08 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: antikarmatomic]
antikarmatomic Offline
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*what I meant to add somewhere in there was basically - if you really want to meet "like-minded individuals" go talk to someone out there outside your door, be it a gas station-attended, derelict neighbor, short order cook, or celebrity... chose well... but we're out there. Don't walk around like you have some "elite" stick up your ass, and you'll find many a hella worth-while non-joiners... hell! you'll meet some hella like minded individuals who never heard of any of these bitch-ass acronyms (CoS, ToV, CoD, the XYZ, whatever) - they rep they who got their back, but otherwise ain't about shit except coming off and in its own way that's what I'm about... that's all I see to it. The rest is just bullshit and typing - shit we do to kill time.

Edited by antikarmatomic (11/06/13 12:10 AM)
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#82000 - 11/06/13 05:16 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: antikarmatomic]
Czereda Online
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Registered: 03/14/11
Posts: 1697
Loc: Poland
 Quote:
Which is my beef with this O9A propaganda... illegality and murder... how utterly ridiculous can one possibly be to ascribe that shit to Satanism? The ONLY thing that shit could possibly serve to do is put us ALL under the same legislative umbrella when and if push comes to shove.

And like... it's seriously overlook-able that David Myatt is Muslim? "Insight role?" then "why blow your cover?" 'prolly for the same reasons anyone that gets bagged by the feds promises to co-op for a lighter sentence. Lulz? you wanna HAVE to turn informant? yeah, me neither.

I susepect anything as public as the O9A is a honeynet... like it's fucking obvious... and if it ain't... well... don't be surprised what comes next... even if you are innocent... they got mouths to feeds too... and an arrest is an arrest. Job validated - and easy too! it was just some 14 year kid.


Yeah, you're so right. This whole ONA shit is a trap created by the united effort of the secret agencies, police forces and politicians all over the world to ensnare all these silly wannabe Satanists and lead them to their demise. I heard that all ONA blogs and websites are administered by FBI or NSA, except one which belongs to David Cameron. Some of these websites have been shut down recently, because they have already served their purpose. Everybody who visited them is now behind the bars.

The plan is simple. To get people talking about this bullshit, which seems so cool. You see...a few people start the topic, a few other join and then there are more and more participants willing to join the discussion. It's like a spider web woven by the cunning cops to ensnare more and more Satanists, to gather as much info about them as possible and finally to make them commit a crime and compromise in this way the whole Satanic community.

As Satanists are amiable creatures and wouldn't dare to hurt a fly, it requires a lot of time, energy and skills to manipulate them into breaking the law.

Soooo...it works like this:
First, you are exposed to the controversial philosophy, which is totally alien to you. You don't like it and rebel against it. You're full of anger and repulsion. You voice your opinion, but unfortunately, nobody agrees with you or even understands you, because they are already brainwashed. So you get frustrated and start being indifferent. After all, it's not your business what others think. Who cares?

Then, as more and more people talk about how badass it is, you start thinking that perhaps it's not that all bad. Some parts of it are quite cool.

And then you start wondering whether killing some douchebags out there is so bad. After all, the law is arbitrary, the state enslaves you and so on...so you take your gun and go on a killing spree. Unfortunately, before you even fire the first bullet, the cops are there, waiting for you, because it was all planned in detail.

This topic is about the Church of Satan. Yet you jumped in talking about...the ONA. You're quite obsessed, aren't you? Well, it's happening for a reason. Watch out...
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#82004 - 11/06/13 07:01 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Czereda]
antikarmatomic Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Czereda

This topic is about the Church of Satan. Yet you jumped in talking about...the ONA. You're quite obsessed, aren't you? Well, it's happening for a reason. Watch out...
well, the thread sort of jumped to the whole membership-fee side of things, and while I think it is a bit lopsided I began to consider other reasons why they may have one, which might be to separate "them" from the loosely-affilated and lone-wolf Richard Ramirez types, because obviously when such things do occur the press will just use the word "Satanist" and while the general public and authorities just lump us all together into one bucket of preconceived-notions, member-ship could very well be the only way by which you're not lumped into the same "gang".

*RICO, btw, is an abbreviation for "[the] Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations" act, so for example if I decided to become a Priest or Magister of the C/S and call my self a "Satanist"; because I am a registered member of the C/S there exists certifiable proof that if some nut job also claiming to be a "Satanist" while never joining goes out and commits criminal activity, I can't be convicted under the RICO act - tried, maybe, but not convicted. The membership fee may serve many purposes - a filtering mechanism, a protective mechanism, and or simple pragmatism. It could just be as simple as "who doesn't want money" but that's not very interesting.

Certainly it is a bit of a stretch, but I can see where if ever a case of mass hysteria were to take place such as the satanic-panic it could prove a prudent move. $200 bucks and there is evidence clearly delineating non-affiliation with the likes of the O9A.

I wouldn't call it obsessing, necessarily, I just find it interesting to think about. I will concede that by now I am most certainly beating a dead horse, but whatever - I enjoy typing ;\)




Edited by antikarmatomic (11/06/13 07:04 PM)
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#82010 - 11/06/13 09:09 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
antikarmatomic Offline
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"Look someone else commenting about someone coming in this thread to talk about something besides the CoS."

I'll take the hit for someone talking about something besides the C/S - but in context it was simply to point out there could be some very valid reasons why membership and registration are important from a legal perspective, since after all, when something "real" does go down the headlines are going to be screaming "Satanism" and while the public will read no further into it, the courts, on the other hand, would have to. It serves to not get "us" confused with "them" that may very well carry the same flag.

It may well prevent those who are more aligned with the C/S from being broadly swept into the same bucket as those who advocate political dissidence and/or criminal activity. After all Satanism is Satanism, right? Yeah, not so much, here's the documents that prove otherwise.

Not that I agree with the membership fee, because on the one hand "Satanism should be a church of non-joiners" but on the other-hand "here's the membership application, please make check payable too___" that's a huge "wait what???" - so I just ponder other possibilities.

It's a stretch, I know, but seems reasonable (in its own weird way)


Edited by antikarmatomic (11/06/13 09:14 PM)
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#82013 - 11/06/13 10:55 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: antikarmatomic]
antikarmatomic Offline
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Initially I see it as hypocritical… the membership fee - but I don’t always go with my initial perceptions – in fact I always tend to question my obvious conclusions.
So (while I do not speak for the C/S my hypothesis is this)
1) It serves to plainly state and document that while we are satanic, we actually do agree that Satanism does NOT stand for criminality. If you want to do criminal things that has nothing to do with us and “our” plainly stated beliefs.

2) We have nothing to do with other *spins* on “Satanism”. It is certifiable and documentable. If the “sinister” go about tarnishing “our brand” that’s their business, not “ours”.

3) Colloquially -a nigga’s gotta eat, word? And there’s no free lunch so___

Put one and two together all third sided-like and there you go. You’re safe from being lumped into the bucket of these e-weirdos when and if anyone rep’n a Pentagram goes all columbine based on some e-scriptures over what amounts to daddy-issues… that I for one simply am not about; as too the church is safe so bonus! They get some capital.

As for the O9A… I could just as well have said the brother-hood… just figured the example spoke to this audience more succinctly, since that seems to be the talk of the town around these parts.
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#82019 - 11/07/13 06:17 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Mistress Babylon]
Zerophopia Offline
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Registered: 08/11/13
Posts: 80
I'm sure me and Jorge could fill out a 501(c) and <poof> The Burrito Stand is now a fully registered nonprofit organization dedicated to the handing out of burritos to migrant workers on the border. And yeah, I'm sure we could go on the internet and pretend to be "well established" or "real world oriented". We could even post pics and videos of us handing out said burritos and partying with Tequila and Corona and whatnot. If we were really smart, we would figure out a way to write off the wino sleeping in the shed behind the Stand, and trust me, we would have a team of ACLU lawyers looking into it. Hypothetically speaking of course.

One of the things that really gets me about these pretentious types (e.g. the Allees, Ron French, Tom Blackwood, et al.) is their insistence that their pile of steaming doggy-doo is somehow different because they bothered to fill out some stupid paperwork. But do you find these pretentious asshats running successful corporations, or are they hanging out at flea markets and burrito stands?

Exactly. So much for the "establishment".

Regarding the CoS (and I'm neither a member nor a fan), at least their model has always been consistent. They are basically a modern day "hellfire club" and they charge the $200 because if you can't pony that up, then you aren't the type of person they are looking for. They even say as much on their index page. In other words, their membership fee isn't one of inclusion, it is one of exclusion. They don't want that guy in the shed behind the burrito stand.

JK
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#82020 - 11/07/13 08:22 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Mistress Babylon]
FemaleSatan Offline
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Registered: 10/19/11
Posts: 551
Loc: The Dirty South
Actually, it's not. THIS is the OP of the topic and most answers follow this formula.

 Quote:
Hi all, i'm just curious as to whether there are any registered (or perhaps Active Members) of the Church of Satan here at the 600 Club, and if so, what, if anything do you get satisfaction-wise by being a card-carrying member of the CoS?

I did consider joining a number of years ago when it had it's special $100 membership fee offer, but was going through a final year at University and decided at that specific time that £75 was more important to my academic needs than the old red card. \:\)

Thanks for your time.



It wasn't about comparison of membership fees until your lackeys made it about that.
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#82021 - 11/07/13 10:10 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FromGehenna]
SIN3 Offline
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Registered: 05/14/13
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Loc: Virginia
The topic is from 2009, these old topics get bumped from time...



Do I gain satisfaction from it? I gain satisfaction from living my life on my own terms. I suppose some people join because they want to belong to something such as a group, a social circle, a camaraderie, et. al. I collect artifacts and props. Joining was nothing more than sending in my cash.

Thing about the 'Application', it's not required. I never filled the damn thing out. I have nothing to prove, I don't need to try to impress people with my pedigree. Funny thing is, the admin doesn't care to be impressed. A photo I.D. is plenty to keep on file for their records and I certainly wasn't skiddish about providing it.

By the by, 200 bucks isn't that much money, unless you don't have much of it.
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#82023 - 11/07/13 12:00 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3051
[Quick reply]
SoTHG was but a passing comment I made. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and views about the organization.

But alike many real-world organizations and companies, there's a ton more happening away from public eyes. Anyone can call it a Satanic e-church, but as far as I am concerned, the only "preachers" are those who aren't even privy (or belong to the core-group) lest alone are members in the first place. The same kind of shit surrounding the CoS.

While it is easy to discard events made by such organizations, it only shows the lack of experience and knowledge organizing these things.

Don't be making so much drama little bobo. Especially if the inner workings of the subject at hand are way above your head. I know you've been trying to ride the "dark" aesthetically pleasing variant of ONA (which has been popularized on the internet by various people). If you ever happen to plan a vacation in my surrounding areas, I'll be more than happy to share a little address to have a little meet-up and will show you how its true face really looks like (and have you introduced to its original roots).

@zerophobia
Minus the different verbiage and "official paperwork", at what point are you different? Or others for that matter?
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#82029 - 11/07/13 03:15 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: FemaleSatan]
Zach_Black Offline
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Registered: 05/14/11
Posts: 541
Loc: San Diego, California
"The 25 dollar membership fee is absorbed into the administration cost to keep the Sect of the Horned God running. Such costs include but are not limited to the parchment paperwork they send out. The several events they put on yearly at the winery. They sometimes fly people out or help members financially to help get them out here for events. The Sect also sometimes sends out merchandise.

If you are a Sect member and make it to an event you get in for free and can stay over night on the winery. Substantial discounts on food and drinks. Discounts on merchandise.

After living here for a month with the Sect on the winery, I can tell you this. It takes a lot of work to run it. Thomas LeRoy and Mistress Babylon spend hours a day each working on the Sect.

I can't speak for all satanic organizations. But, this is the only one I am part of" .

How is this not talking about membership fees? Are you fucking blind? So what I included what you get with the 25 dollar membership fee. That IS talking about membership fees.

And as far as E - Churches are concerned little BoBoBad you are mistaken. I realize you wish to belittle the Sect and its members. But as Dimitri pointed out, you have know idea what you are talking about. The Sect is a real organization. Established with the IRS. Not simply an online network.

Please continue on. This is getting amusing. \:\)
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#82030 - 11/07/13 03:28 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Zach_Black]
SIN3 Offline
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 Quote:
Established with the IRS.


As a side-note, not really related to the Sect. Attaining an EIN# with the IRS doesn't validate an organization as more 'real' than another. I'd say, the realness comes from face-time, events and real-world type stuff.

It would be difficult for anyone living away from where the organization is grounded to participate unless they have a willingness to travel. The rest would just be on-line participation and snail-mail correspondence.

The EIN is strictly used for tax purposes. Attainment of a business licence in your locale just sets up shop as an operating business for legal purposes such as state approval to operate, state tax and for Liability Insurance.

During the Tom Blackwood troll-a-thon, people were getting EIN's to prove their Facebook groups were 'real'. It was pretty funny. The EIN is tied to your SS#, so that was pretty dumb.

If I were to set up a working group, the last thing I'd want is the IRS all up in my shit. Sounds like Pentagonal Revisionism to me "Churches should pay taxes!", 2. on the list.
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#82033 - 11/07/13 04:12 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Mistress Babylon Offline
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Loc: Northern California
EIN's are the easy part of the process whether small business or corporate. They're really just the tip of the iceburg...

Edited by Mistress Babylon (11/07/13 05:02 PM)
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#82042 - 11/07/13 07:27 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Mistress Babylon]
SIN3 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Mistress Babylon
EIN's are the easy part of the process whether small business or corporate. They're really just the tip of the iceburg...


Is the Sect a Non-profit or For-Profit? Tax mapping is just for managing income/donations. If you guys are putting on fund-raising events, it's really just for money management. It also complicates matters.

My point about the EIN and registering with the IRS had more to do with the 'realness' of said organization than anything else.
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#82046 - 11/07/13 08:04 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Mistress Babylon Offline
pledge


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Posts: 93
Loc: Northern California
It's a Public Benefit corporation. We have a tax lawyer that looks after everything.
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#82047 - 11/07/13 09:18 PM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
The topic is from 2009, these old topics get bumped from time...



Do I gain satisfaction from it? I gain satisfaction from living my life on my own terms. I suppose some people join because they want to belong to something such as a group, a social circle, a camaraderie, et. al. I collect artifacts and props. Joining was nothing more than sending in my cash.

Thing about the 'Application', it's not required. I never filled the damn thing out. I have nothing to prove, I don't need to try to impress people with my pedigree. Funny thing is, the admin doesn't care to be impressed. A photo I.D. is plenty to keep on file for their records and I certainly wasn't skiddish about providing it.

By the by, 200 bucks isn't that much money, unless you don't have much of it.



The photo made me laugh. I tend to do the same (albeit not with these types of groups) I would imagine you are one of a very few to have held on to both cards. $200 is nothing. I don't know why the membership fee is even at issue.
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#82155 - 11/10/13 01:05 AM General reply to all [Re: FemaleSatan]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1710
Loc: New York
Please note that I deleted several of the responses (about three fucking pages worth) that did not address the original topic, and especially the ones that had any kind of personal attacks against other uses in them. In regards to this I also banned Bartho LeMule for a month for too many fuck tard personal attacks.

Thanks.


Edited by Asmedious (11/10/13 02:00 AM)
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#82165 - 11/10/13 08:48 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Zerophopia]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
Regarding the CoS (and I'm neither a member nor a fan), at least their model has always been consistent. They are basically a modern day "hellfire club" and they charge the $200 because if you can't pony that up, then you aren't the type of person they are looking for. They even say as much on their index page. In other words, their membership fee isn't one of inclusion, it is one of exclusion.


I don't think the membership fee is all that important. A person that can't pony up $200 today can certainly save for it.

Even a modern-day Hellfire Club meets for activities which is why you usually see the same people in photos at gatherings. Either they live in the same locale or have a willingness to travel to hang out with said club.

From the start, I don't think the official membership (of a non-joiners club, mind you) was meant to be anything more than symbolic. The Active Membership tier is to take advantage of networking, advertisements and co-op projects as well as find suitable representatives to speak on its behalf. Peter Gilmore re-emphasized this in The Satanic Scriptures. It seems like a give and take sort of thing. The CoS benefits from the notoriety of its members just as much as the individual member reaps perks from the affiliation.

The CoS in name represents something very specific, even if the symbol changed hands after LaVey died. The argument over whether it's the same CoS could certainly be had but foundation is still there. Those specifics are the reason a person will either fly a flag or choose to remain anonymous.
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#82168 - 11/10/13 09:29 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

The CoS in name represents something very specific, even if the symbol changed hands after LaVey died. The argument over whether it's the same CoS could certainly be had but foundation is still there. Those specifics are the reason a person will either fly a flag or choose to remain anonymous.


True. Legally, it is the same Church of Satan. A person may question whether it is the same qualitatively, but it has remained the same in a legal sense. That would be more of a personal judgment I suppose.
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#82169 - 11/10/13 09:37 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
That would be more of a personal judgment I suppose.


Agreed. Though, I'd say it would be rather difficult to cast an informed decision if you had not participated in the CoS in any capacity prior to or post LaVey's death.

Ideologically, it's more or less just passing judgment on the writing on the website, by members, or media-appearances.

As an example, Vexen Crabtree has spent years building his website for public information value. Would he be considered to be the CoS or merely a member (regardless of title)?
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#82170 - 11/10/13 09:40 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
One could argue that. I can't really make a call there. I've never belonged to the C/S. I do think the publication of the book Satanic Scriptures would make help a person make an informed decision. I would assume the person you mentioned would be considered a Church of Satan member with his own project. He could not be considered the C/S itself in any sense. He is simply a member with his own opinions on the matter. Of course, The Church of Satan is a for-profit business. The process for a nonprofit is a bit different. They are a completely legal organization, however.
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#82171 - 11/10/13 10:03 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
I do think the publication of the book Satanic Scriptures would make help a person make an informed decision.


Not necessarily, words are carriers...They conduct LBM on the mind. The particular chapter I mentioned was written in such a way that Peter is drawing a line in the sand (entitled "The Devil's Business").

Here's an excerpt:

"... do not attempt to join those of the Infernal Empire hoping or thinking that by claiming to share the religion, you can share the fruits of the labor. Amongst Satanists, we may scratch one another's back, we may help each other out with knowledge and insight, or even with useful resources; but we do not do the work for each other.

We judge through actions and deeds, the individual Satanist doesn't have to be grossly wealthy, nor substantially successful by society's standards. Knowledge of Satanism and truly apply it to their life is what separates those who wish they were from those who are."



Appealing to a Satanist's sense of pride ;\)
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#82172 - 11/10/13 10:05 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Quote:
I do think the publication of the book Satanic Scriptures would make help a person make an informed decision.


Not necessarily, words are carriers...They conduct LBM on the mind. The particular chapter I mentioned was written in such a way that Peter is drawing a line in the sand (entitled "The Devil's Business").

Here's an excerpt:

"... do not attempt to join those of the Infernal Empire hoping or thinking that by claiming to share the religion, you can share the fruits of the labor. Amongst Satanists, we may scratch one another's back, we may help each other out with knowledge and insight, or even with useful resources; but we do not do the work for each other.

We judge through actions and deeds, the individual Satanist doesn't have to be grossly wealthy, nor substantially successful by society's standards. Knowledge of Satanism and truly apply it to their life is what separates those who wish they were from those who are."



Appealing to a Satanist's sense of pride ;\)


No, I get where you are coming from. I just can't make a judgment call there. They just aren't doing anything wrong. I offer Satanic Scriptures as a possible source of information. I would imagine it may not be conclusive.
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#82173 - 11/10/13 10:33 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
They just aren't doing anything wrong.


I don't think it's a matter of right and wrong but a personal preference pallet. The OP appeared to be looking for personal experience and perspective to cast judgement on whether affiliation was worth anything at all.

 Quote:
Hi all, i'm just curious as to whether there are any registered (or perhaps Active Members) of the Church of Satan here at the 600 Club, and if so, what, if anything do you get satisfaction-wise by being a card-carrying member of the CoS?

I did consider joining a number of years ago when it had it's special $100 membership fee offer, but was going through a final year at University and decided at that specific time that £75 was more important to my academic needs than the old red card. \:\)

Thanks for your time.


As mentioned by the OP, the fee was not a priority for him at that time but he appeared to be weighing the value (i.e. Satisfaction) even if only to satisfy his curiosity.
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#82174 - 11/10/13 10:36 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
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Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
True. It would just be a value judgment as to whether it was worth joining. I can only indicate that it is a legally legitimate organization. Opinions will vary beyond that. They are a legal for-profit and indicate as such.
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#82175 - 11/10/13 10:52 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Zerophopia]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Zerophopia
I'm sure me and Jorge could fill out a 501(c) and <poof> The Burrito Stand is now a fully registered nonprofit organization dedicated to the handing out of burritos to migrant workers on the border. And yeah, I'm sure we could go on the internet and pretend to be "well established" or "real world oriented". We could even post pics and videos of us handing out said burritos and partying with Tequila and Corona and whatnot. If we were really smart, we would figure out a way to write off the wino sleeping in the shed behind the Stand, and trust me, we would have a team of ACLU lawyers looking into it. Hypothetically speaking of course.


Speaking of legalities.

It can get sticky if you're say registered with the State and publicly advertise that you collect monies and sell under the organization's header but aren't with the Feds. It doesn't really matter what that money is collected for, it's still an income. Great way to invite an audit into your life. At that point you have two choices, you collect income under your personal SS# or Business EIN# and max deductions for expenses.

It would be rather foolish to not have all your bases covered or else put a gag-order on members running their mouths about it. In an attempt to seem 'real world' many people fail to understand the scope of their actions.
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#82176 - 11/10/13 11:10 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3

Speaking of legalities.

It can get sticky if you're say registered with the State and publicly advertise that you collect monies and sell under the organization's header but aren't with the Feds. It doesn't really matter what that money is collected for, it's still an income. Great way to invite an audit into your life. At that point you have two choices, you collect income under your personal SS# or Business EIN# and max deductions for expenses.

It would be rather foolish to not have all your bases covered or else put a gag-order on members running their mouths about it. In an attempt to seem 'real world' many people fail to understand the scope of their actions.


Indeed. 501 is a determination made by the IRS. I only know the process of my state, I can show you how it is done. The Temple of Set, for example, is organized in a legal and correct manner on both the state and federal level. They organized with the Secretary of State. From there:

You can verify them here

You simply type in their organization name and it will show both registration with the state + their EIN # with the IRS. Thus they are completely legitimate on all levels. You can look up any California nonprofit on this site.

Legal/tax issues may arise when an organization has not registered and/or does not have an EIN. Public representation would be the key. I suppose one could still pay taxes as a DBA, but it would be unusual to do so.

So: You have two legit. cards SIN! The 501 process comes only after all these steps are taken.


Edited by Le Deluge (11/10/13 11:16 AM)
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#82177 - 11/10/13 11:16 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
I suppose one could still pay taxes as a DBA, but it would be unusual to do so.
Even DBA and T/A are tied to a primary EIN#. If say a subcontractor "Mr Handy Jones" is trading as "Handy Jones Subcontracting", the income is tied to his primary ID#.

Legitimacy in a legal sense differs from legitimacy in a 'real world organization' sense. As I stated previously, if you claim to be more than an Internet-based organization then this would obviously involve face time.

People can organize in the real world and it doesn't have to involve money changing hands. Internet-based 'real world' just involves real people behind computers doing stuff in an organized fashion.
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#82178 - 11/10/13 11:18 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Le Deluge Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/05/12
Posts: 1790
 Originally Posted By: SIN3
 Quote:
I suppose one could still pay taxes as a DBA, but it would be unusual to do so.
Even DBA and T/A are tied to a primary EIN#. If say a subcontractor "Mr Handy Jones" is trading as "Handy Jones Subcontracting", the income is tied to his primary ID#.

Legitimacy in a legal sense differs from legitimacy in a 'real world organization' sense. As I stated previously, if you claim to be more than an Internet-based organization then this would obviously involve face time.

People can organize in the real world and it doesn't have to involve money changing hands. Internet-based 'real world' just involves real people behind computers doing stuff in an organized fashion.



True. If an EIN is not on record, you are on shaky grounds at best. You can see the T/S has everything covered. This is how to have legitimacy as a legal "real world" organization. The problems arise when you don't follow these steps, but you claim to have this status.
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#82182 - 11/10/13 11:59 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: Le Deluge]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6458
Loc: Virginia
Indeed, especially if said charity doesn't file form 990 and claim in the public to be collecting funds under the header of a Charity organization. I've seen people go down in flames (financially) over this. It's a pretty easy trap to fall into. At the end of the year, people tend to want to claim as many deductions as possible, to include any charities they've contributed to. That's when said organizations get pinched. When contributors look for legal legitimacy. In order to claim the deduction on your tax return, it requires the Charities EIN#.

As an example, I donate clothing annually to the Samaritan House Woman's Shelter. At the end of the year I can claim it as a tax deduction, so it serves a two-fold purpose. I can unload bags of clothes and it goes somewhere useful (vs. a thrift that just resells it) and get the tax deduction. The return requires that I list Samaritan House's EIN#. I keep all my receipts in the event of an audit.

At the state level, you're not allowed as many deductions as you are on the Federal reported income (i.e. such as charitable contributions).

See:FAQ's, in the information age, I can't really see people claiming ignorance in that regard.

I can and often do 'donate' to individual artists as an appreciation for their work. It buys them art-supplies and such and it's not enough to claim it as an income. Believe it or not, some people just show their work because they have an appreciation for the arts, not necessarily to profit from it.


In terms of perceived value people tend to get hung-up on legal legitimacy as a way to determine if something is 'real'. It can be 'real' enough for someone to join and it doesn't matter if they are legit legally or not. It only gets complicated when money changes hands.
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#82386 - 11/17/13 02:47 AM Re: Are you a Church Of Satan member? [Re: SIN3]
Pestilence Offline
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Registered: 11/07/13
Posts: 29
Loc: Queensland, Australia.
I was a member of the Church of Satan for some time but then I think as I continued to grow in my quest of ascendancy, I outgrew the church in favour of less dogmatic pursuits.

Personally, I think the Church of Satan has it merits as a great place to learn and that Anton LaVey has much to offer in the way of Satanic Philosophy. Unfortunately however there are those who will always bring a place down for their own grandiose ambitions and sadly I think this is the case with the Church.
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