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#22340 - 03/22/09 01:40 AM Atheistic Satanism
ShadowsAndVapors Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm not trying to offend anyone here. I'm a theistic Satanist and I don't understand Atheistic Satanism. Why would you practice a religion towards a god that you don't believe exists? I see that it's a focal point, but why would you choose a god that is traditionally associated with evil, hatred, and eternal torture? I just don't get it. Can someone please explain this one to me?
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#22341 - 03/22/09 01:49 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Satan is not a "God" and has never been claimed to be one outside of theistic Satanism. We identify with Satan as an archetype, a concept, a symbol, not a literal being that exists and gives a fuck about us. Before it was a personified being it was a word. It's all very simple to understand.
_________________________
Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

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#22348 - 03/22/09 02:16 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Morbid Rex]
ShadowsAndVapors Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
What word are you referring to? Satan just means "enemy". That doesn't seem like a word to live by, so I assume that you mean a different one.
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#22352 - 03/22/09 03:02 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
one of many names...

"Lucifer" as 'bringer of the light' i.e. the knowledge. He brought knowledge to a world that was basically ignorant. Re-read genesis...it's said, "they are now like the gods; they now understand good from evil"

priot to eating from the tree of life, (light) adam and eve were ignorant of anything but what was told them directly from god. They were not sinful for their eating of the fruit; they were exercising the free will which was granted to them and theoretically they were punished for that.

When the previous poster talked about archetype, he meant that Satan is sort of like a mascot. A Satanist as is described in these forums believes that he is his own god...Believes not in God per se or The Devil per se but that each is a reflection of man at his best and worst (depending on your view of God and Devil). Lucifer literally means " bringer of light" which loosely translates to "bringer of knowledge". and if you study christianity, you will find that it is a religion that not only praises, but encourages ignorance and blind faith without question. The only thing that the garden-of-eden-Satan said was that eating of the fuit would bring truth and understanding like that of the gods...and according to Genesis, god himself agreed when he made his final verdict (22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of us, knowing good and evil;)...If eating of the tree was what brought understanding of good and evil, then why were they punished for "doing wrong" when they could not have possibly had a concept of doing wrong in the first place...

Ah...genesis...the first chapter, and the beginning of all the conspiracies against humankind. The bible was written BY men FOR TO repress mankind and to keep the poor in check. It says over and over again that you should be humble and be content with your place in life. Do you really believe that? Do you really believe that a benevolent, loving god would want you to live in 1500 europe and be content knowing that you will work 7 days a week, 18 hours a day just to watch your children do the same and never step out of your social caste? Think mideival catholic church and indentured servant here...

now in modern times, Satan has become a mascot for those who choose to question the status quo. You will notice that even if they do not readily identify with Satanism, they are given the label by the masses. Scientists who explain things logically instead of biblically are give the label of heretic or blasphemers or Satanic...Check out the baptist/southern baptists...you will find that most of them say that dinosaurs are a conspiracy. Who refuses to eat of the "Tree of knowledge of good and evil"? only those who would happily remain ignorant of good and evil and therfore live a life in which they serve whomever holds the greatest power over them...

The true humanitarian would question the very definition of good; the very definition of evil, and live according to what he himself defines as such. The Satanism that you will find here will not point you to any new gods. Instead, it will show you that YOU are a god yourself. Man created God because he was not allowed to openly spite or hate or derive pleasure from the suffering of another. That was The Devil's job. But on the obverse, The Devil was the bringer of knowledge and the giver of "light", so how could one shun the one that gives truth and knowledge? That is man himself, even if he doesn't want to take credit for his base emotions and his basic instincts. A Satanist recognizes that he is both God and The Devil and capable of dually good and evil depending on what seems to suit the circumstances. He (the Satanist) claims mastery of his own fate and gives neither credit nor excuse to outside forces...

If you want to stay here, I suggest you develop a strong sense of self-accountability. Because to stay here declares that you have realized that you and you alone are captain of your ship. You and you alone chart your course. In the Christian belief system, one turns the other cheek and allows the powers above and around to dictate his life instead of standing up and declaring his own fate and his own path.

You have to be a characteristacally strong individual to live here. Are you that individual? Are you ready to accept that your decisions are yours and yours alone? Are you ready to take not only the glory, but the possible shame that accompanies each and every one of your decisions? Because that's what you're getting into....

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#22354 - 03/22/09 03:11 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ceruleansteel]
ShadowsAndVapors Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
Thanks, there don't seem to be any really good explanations of Atheistic Satanism to be found. That really helped me out. That was the first one I've heard that really described it well and actually made sense. And yes, I've excepted those things. I've been a Theistic Satanist for about a year and a half now. For some reason I didn't really think to go to a forum to ask people before. Thanks again!
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#22362 - 03/22/09 03:47 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3142
 Quote:
I'm a theistic Satanist and I don't understand Atheistic Satanism. Why would you practice a religion towards a god that you don't believe exists? I see that it's a focal point, but why would you choose a god that is traditionally associated with evil, hatred, and eternal torture?

After ceruleansteel her very nice explanation I would like to remark something:
You claim you are a theistic satanist who doesn't get "atheistic Satanism" (contradiction on itself since Atheism remains Atheism and not suddenly turns into atheistic buddhism or Satanism or...).
You ask me: but why would you choose a god that is traditionally associated with evil, hatred, and eternal torture?
if you 1) know we don't believe in a god, 2) you are the theistic one.
Let me reverse the question: why do you believe there is such a god associated with "evil, hatred and eternal torture"?


Edited by Dimitri (03/22/09 03:53 AM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#22364 - 03/22/09 04:03 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ceruleansteel]
lady cruella Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 6
Loc: anywhere i please
c-
i am new to the Satanism community, and w/caution i stepped into this a bit intrigued, but i have never been one to question My choices- they are Mine and My will. thank you for putting it in a sense that I can understand better. Atheistic Satanism is core to Me, I just hadnt realized it. knowledge is power, and power is All.

danke-
_________________________
.:with eyes wide open i could watch My world evolve:.

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#22373 - 03/22/09 10:13 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
Just to crowbar it into any number of craniums, Magus Peter H Gilmore wrote and article called "What, the devil?" published in the book The Satanic Scriptures. The very first line of the article reads "Satanism is not devil worship."

And you are a Devil Worshipper. An Inverted christian.

Not a Satanist in any shape or form.

Best of luck worshipping your imaginary friend with the horns and pitchfork. Sane, rational people have no problems realising that such a figure doesn't exist.

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#22374 - 03/22/09 10:59 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Let me help you out a little because clearly you are a new practitioner. The term "Satanism" did not exist until Anton LaVey invented it around 1966. I covered this subject before, in perfect clarity, in another tiresome post about 'Traditional Satanism':

 Quote:
Where in history do you find 'Traditional Satanism'? In nearly 25 years of research, I have never seen any historical reference to Satanism that was (1) not a creation of The Church or (2) uncited historical revisionism by post LaVey authors.

The closest thing I can find to actual worship of 'Satan' as a dark entity are various Latin American and Afro-Caribbean cults. Even these are not 'traditional' religions. Rather, they are an amalgam of aboriginal animism and pantheon combined with the Catholic system of saints and angels.

Where do you people get this 'traditional satanism' from? Cite a source or simply admit it is all made up!


Theists of all stripes are a bit kooky - you people all the more so. How do you in one breath renounce the Bible and all it's teaching but in the next breath pay homage to it's mythos?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#22375 - 03/22/09 12:19 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Fist]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3898
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
There is no such thing as theistic/traditional Satanism.

Where are all the 'theistic satanists' that have stuck with it for a while? The theistic satanists that have held 'theistic Satanism' as a belief structure into adulthood?
And why is it you think these animals are few and far between?

The answer is simple. Theism is theism is theism. It is but a slight shift in paradigm, hardly noticeable, between heretical christianity and mainstream christianity. The mythos, as Fist pointed out, is the same. The difference is that heretical christianity/'theistic Satanism' is not an internally coherent or consistent belief system on the same level as it's more mainstream cousins of the abrahamic line.

The reason there are not very many adult 'theistic satanists', or people that have stuck with this way of thinking for a very long time is that people grow up, mature, and eventually move to something with more substance.

It's an easy move, because if you are capable of letting go of rationality to the point of having faith in a cosmic bogeyman, it doesn't matter what he is named. It is an easy move because theists invariably crave acceptance and reassurance to re-enforce their faith. The bible, the clergy, and brick and mortar buildings devoted to their mythos make it more real, more easy to gravitate towards and believe in. They return to the fold as I'm sure the OP will also when he grows up.

Satanism, on the other hand, is THE OPPOSITE. It is the opposer and the adversary of that entire theistic meme. Where all other forms of theism look 'out there' for the answers, for power, and for truth, the Satanist looks inward.
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#22378 - 03/22/09 03:49 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Mike Offline
member


Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
We don't practice a religion towards a god we don't believe in...The "god" we believe in is ourselves, a quick read of the Satanic Bible would answer most of your questions. We're not here to spoon feed information to those that are interested in what we believe, however if you search the site and read old forums you'll find what you're looking for as well.

To sum things up quite briefly, Satan isn't neccessarily always related to all the negative things you mentioned. "Traditional" Satanists believe something very different when it comes to the personification of Satan. Satan is only a focal point in Satanism because of what he really stands for and represents; freedom, vengence, strength, respect, and so on. The character Satan is sometimes viewed as a role model by Satanists, the badass who takes shit from no one, not even god. Remember also that before Satan was personified the word Satan meant opposer, therefore the philosophy of Satanism is a philosophy of those that are opposed to certain things, organized religion being one of them.

Another thing I'd like to add is that Satanism is NOT an atheistic religion, it is an autotheistic religion due to the reason I mentioned earlier (we see ourselves as 'gods'). Don't take that the wrong way either. By gods we don't mean we can walk on water and feed 4,000 people with 2 fish.

Hope that helps.
_________________________
-Mike, "The Patron Satanic Saint of the Youth"

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#22379 - 03/22/09 04:04 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
ShadowsAndVapors Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
I'm not saying that I believe he is about evil and torture and stuff, I'm just saying that he traditionally is. Basically, the Christians are the one's who mainly believe in Satan and THEY associate him with that stuff.

Also, you guys need to keep in mind that Satanism existed before the Satanic Bible was written. Ancient peoples worshiped Satanesque gods such as Seth. Also, if you base all of your beliefs on the Satanic Bible you are going against the satanic principle of not conforming. If you take all your beliefs from a book you read then none of it is your own. In essence you don't actually have any beliefs at all.

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#22380 - 03/22/09 04:28 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3142
 Quote:
I'm not saying that I believe he is about evil and torture and stuff, I'm just saying that he traditionally is. Basically, the Christians are the one's who mainly believe in Satan and THEY associate him with that stuff.

Indeed you didn't, but you build your sentences in such a manner I assumed you did.. Matter of coherence you see... think before writing.

 Quote:
Also, you guys need to keep in mind that Satanism existed before the Satanic Bible was written. Ancient peoples worshiped Satanesque gods such as Seth. Also, if you base all of your beliefs on the Satanic Bible you are going against the satanic principle of not conforming. If you take all your beliefs from a book you read then none of it is your own. In essence you don't actually have any beliefs at all.

1) MODERN Satanism indeed didn't exist before the SB.. Traditional almost had the same period of birth as Christianity since they invented the necessary tools for the weak-minded (and idiots).
2) Perhaps you didn't notice, but on the front page there actually are links to other books with a "Satanic touch" but are just about mere psychology and/or are descriptions/essay about society and social interactions or philosophy...
Following one book doesn't mean you can't have no belief at all.. Every book provides guidelines from the author to make-up a whole new world/dimension where stories take place. --> http://www.the600club.com/topic21578-1.html
3) Seth to me isn't linked to Satanism, however to others he just might be. I prefer to keep him under "Egyption mythology".

You better look around a bit more.. most idiotic claims you make here should be erased then..


Edited by Dimitri (03/22/09 04:33 PM)
Edit Reason: Expanded toughts
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#22381 - 03/22/09 04:29 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
ShadowsAndVapors Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pennsylvania
Ever heard of the Church of Seth?
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#22382 - 03/22/09 04:34 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ShadowsAndVapors]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
Also, you guys need to keep in mind that Satanism existed before the Satanic Bible was written. Ancient peoples worshiped Satanesque gods such as Seth.


Seth predates Satan by several thousand years. While Seth may draw parallels to Satan, you cannot call a cult of Seth a Satanic cult.

 Quote:
Also, if you base all of your beliefs on the Satanic Bible you are going against the satanic principle of not conforming. If you take all your beliefs from a book you read then none of it is your own. In essence you don't actually have any beliefs at all.


You do not seem to be able to wrap your head around the fact that 1) The Satanic Bible is not scripture in the same sense that The Bible is scripture; 2) The Satanic Bible is quite unambiguous, whereas The Bible is shrouded in metaphor (as well as bogged down with inconsistencies). The Satanic Bible can be, for the most part, taken literally, whereas The Bible cannot; and 3) The Satanic Bible is a treatise of philosophy that is centered more around disbelief rather than around belief. Unlike the tenets of Christianity (and, therefore, the inverse thereof), which discourage inquisitiveness and free thought, the Satanic Bible encourages and invites us to question and think for ourselves, even to the point of disagreeing, and by no means to conform. For instance, I do not agree with the nomenclature: Satanism, the Satanic Bible. I understand why it is named as such, as do most of the others on here, because we are truly fucking brilliant. It invites too much confusion and retarded thrill seekers looking for sensationalism where none exists.

Now, are we done playing, children?

Addendum: you do realize that your last post was a one-liner, and is verboten? To answer your question, yes most of us on here are aware of such organizations. Depending on who you ask, the response may or may not be favorable. Usually not.


Edited by Draculesti (03/22/09 04:38 PM)
Edit Reason: Addendum
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