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#22594 - 03/26/09 06:39 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
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 Quote:

Remember, limited systems are only there for limited people; it's the only thing they can fully grasp.

Or, inversely, having an 'unlimited' system isn't a system at all, its just undirected chaos. All too often 'open minded' has become a synonym for 'gullible'
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#24436 - 05/11/09 05:54 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
The rules, then, are the rules of "science"?

Where does the "new Physics" role come into place? I'm actually very interested in this.

But I would like it if someone with patience and qualification could answer... at least one who has followed the latest trends in quantum physics... and see how that relates to the Satanic mindset.

This would be marvelous!

And thanks ahead of time, for just thinking about this!

David.
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#24446 - 05/11/09 11:47 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Posts: 3810
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I'm not sure what you are getting at, Dave. Science and Satanism are two separate subjects.
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#24471 - 05/11/09 07:58 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
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Loc: New York City
Some of the New Science/Physics/Chaos Theories come from thinking outside the box. Some of it isn't that new, just new in being more available/ talked about more.

Satanists in general tend to think outside the box.

Some of my personal favorites:
fuzzy thinking by kosko
the end of time by barbour
an arrow thru chaos by loye
synchronicity by peat
lectures on quantum mechanics by dirac

hope it helps

Morgan
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#24490 - 05/12/09 12:43 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: daevid777]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3116
The only way I can connect science to Satanism is the approach science has when a problem occurs or when they are investigating something.

And also that a normal satanist should use proven facts to state backup his arguments.

@Dan:
Satanism CAN use science..
Well.. at least the satanist does to state his arguments and show why others are wrong. But they indeed are two seperate things.


Edited by Dimitri (05/12/09 12:46 PM)
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#24628 - 05/15/09 01:36 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dimitri]
lefthanded Offline
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Registered: 05/01/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Virginia,Us
true a satanist can use science to slove a problem or answer a quetion but as a theistic satanist i dont understand why choose satan as a symbol instead of something else. I read all the earlier attempts to explain why atheisttic satanists use satan as thier symbol but it still doesnt make much since. Unless you are going for an anarchist approach. Or even an anti-conformist approach in which case you contradict yourself by having a shared title of "Atheistic satanist"
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#24629 - 05/15/09 01:47 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: lefthanded]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3116
Because Satan is (as the christian or any other god(s) ) not real.
You can't proof it's existance nor can you proof the contrary.
Saying Satan exists is implying god exists, thus showing you are nothing but an inverse Christian.

The symbol satan is much more attractive and of more use then thinking he is real. Saying he is real is wasting wasting energy on trivial things instead of using it for constructive ideas or works. All the good time and energy is being wasted at prayers, hommage and cries in vain for yet ANOTHER invisible person....

I prefer to see him as a mere symbol and take the writings of Laveye into account. Just for the fact that I'm someone who is trying to be constructive and not passive.

Also: spell-check please..


Edited by Dimitri (05/15/09 01:47 PM)
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#24634 - 05/15/09 08:14 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: lefthanded]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Satan is the figurehead of the Satanic religion because there is simply no better summation of its essence. I've experimented with other aesthetic perspectives and deistic frameworks, and in the end I always come back to Satan, since there is no better ideal of "vital existence" than Old Nick.

It doesn't matter whether Satan is a symbol, a deity, a spirit, a force of nature, or what have you. It's the ideas behind the name that count, not metaphysical nitpicking.

 Quote:
The true name of Satan, the Kabalists say, is that of Yahveh reversed; for Satan is not a black God, but the negation of God. The Devil is the personification of Atheism or Idolatry.
-Eliphas Levi


Re, Dimitri:

To me, Satan is not "merely" a symbol- in fact, by virtue of being a symbol, he is infinitely more dynamic than any God could ever be. For this reason, it is much more effective to think of deities as mankind's creative expressions of ideas. If Satan were a discrete, finite being- Satanism would be just another boring religion like every other in the world.



Edited by The Zebu (05/15/09 08:26 PM)
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#24985 - 05/25/09 05:41 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: The Zebu]
Atralux Lucis Offline
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Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I am a Atheistic Satanist (I find that Theistic Satanism is generally regarded as devil worship and holds the same Faith as jews or christians which I strongly oppose)

Satan has been used by Christians to symbolize the temptation indulgence and such and desire we naturally feel which they look to oppress. Satan is the dark force of nature. The indifference that there is no good or evil just nature and we are part of nature and so should indulge in whatever desire we have (there are a few exceptions from that meaning we dont indulge in unnatural mental disorder homocide and all that but thats different)
Satan represents the accuser, challenger and adversary (as we see of the other religions) When we worship satan we are worship or more of celebrating the natural desires we feel and how nature is and we part of it.
If Satan is temptation and temptation is natural therefore Satan is Nature.
Thats probably a bit vague but I hope that covers everything. If you read the Satanic Bible by Anton LaVey (regardless of whether you agree with it) it covers everything in depth and pretty straight forward and its a good read anyway (quite colourful)

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#24989 - 05/25/09 09:07 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: ceruleansteel]
NDawg Offline
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Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
That was a very well thought out and well put point. Many, many props. To add to your point, humans also have to realize that most of the beings we call 'gods' are just latent abilities within ourselves. These currents exist within ourselves and, usually, we have no knowledge of them. The names we give these beings are just a way of connecting. We have the capability to be both 'god' and the 'devil'. After supposedly eating the fruit and gaining the knowledge of good and evil, we also gained the knowledge to discriminate between the two. We can decide to be 'good' or 'evil' as situation and our feelings demand. But these labels are all arbitrary and in truth, mean nothing. Perception is everything.
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#25078 - 05/28/09 01:07 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: NDawg]
Scarlett156 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
The basis for my answer is my background in working with so-called "chaos magic", plus my familiarity with The Satanic Bible.

It's less important to define the nature of "god" than it is for each of us to become fully self-actualized, each cognizant of self and individuality, and aware, each of us, of our own strengths and weaknesses.

For those of us who have reached a point at which we may understand what other humans for many thousands of years have meant when they say the word "god", and yet remain secure in our own individuality and self-realized being, the concern of others as to whether "god" (in this case, Satan) does exist as a concrete, non-metaphorical material thing in the universe seems sort of like a little kid asking why the sky is blue--that is, if you really explain it to him, he'll get bored and stop listening after a few sentences, and if you give him the "just because" answer he'll resent you, and possibly begin plotting your downfall based on his perception of stupidity on your part.

My own thoughts about the physical existence of Satan

* Satan does exist--it is as capable of being brought into material manifestation as any other entity, but this proves nothing except that any idea can be made "real" according to the criteria of some.

* Satan does not exist--contrary to popular wishful thinking, Satan does not have a favorite beer, a favorite spot on earth, a favorite type of car. This is because Satan is not human like we are. It has no wants, because it has no physical being. As such, (among other assets) it does not care whether we humans believe in it or not. (NOTE: Other worship will impose some type of "praise and honor" clause on its followers, but not so Satanism, likely one of the reasons I have become a fan of Satanism myself.)

I will add that I often find it advantageous to bring Satan into physical manifestation. That does not mean that it is a "person" like me, but only that I can obtain revelations from my deeper mind when objectifying one of its aspects (in this case, Satan) so that I may in duality converse with said aspect.

I hope this was helpful!

~~~ yours in Chaos, Scarlett
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#25083 - 05/28/09 02:34 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Scarlett156]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
This really reads like a platitude..that is..many well placed words skillfully arranged to avoid saying anything at all.

Are you trying to redefine what 'physical' means? To say that 'Satan' can be made to manifest physically is to say he is an actual material being that can be interacted with.

But you go on to say 'Satan' has no physical being, which completely does a 180 degree turn. If he can be made to 'manifest physically' he would necessarily have physical presence. Which is it?

You go on to say that although he is physical, he is also an aspect of your own personality, or deeper mind. This is quite the juxtaposition you have created.

All and all, this is either worthless metaphysical meandering or a very poor attempt at explaining a cogent position. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume the latter, pending a more concise summary of whatever it is you are trying to put across here.
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#25085 - 05/28/09 03:15 PM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
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Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
LOL! I was thinking pretty much the same thing, Dan. "It is and it isn't."

Kept hearing the old Donovan song THERE IS A MOUNTAIN. "First there is a mountain, then there is no mountain, then there is."

I don't think she's trying to say that there's an anthropomorphic manifestation, but unless she's trying to describe some allegorical manifestation of "Satan" in one's own psyche, it's just not coming through.
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#25115 - 05/29/09 09:07 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Jake999]
Scarlett156 Offline
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Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
Sorry if my contribution to this old topic is not satisfactory to some. My purpose for belonging to an internet discussion forum is really not to satisfy people, anyway, so....

I will keep in mind that the members here seem to prefer tidy arguments where there's only one "right" answer. ;\)

Anything can be brought into physical manifestation--that is, any IDEA which is only an idea can be fleshed out by science or art so that others may also perceive it as "real". For example, an actor may at Easter time take the part of Christ and act out Christ's suffering, with realistic sound effects, etc. That may make the story of Christ's death and resurrection "real" to some, but it is not "really" Jesus up there, right? If I can cause Baphomet to appear and give advice to an acolyte, that will doubtless influence the acolyte as to the "reality" of Baphomet--which is what I want--but whether the apparition is "really" Baphomet is not a concern for me.

What the term "real" actually means, I will admit is also not of much concern to me. I know from particiipation in other internet discussion groups that whether "the devil" or "god" are "real" or not is a subject of keen concern, if not downright anxiety, to many. But to try to explain how something can be real and not real at the same time (i.e., non-dualism) to a person who has those concerns is only a good time every once in awhile, like when it's raining and I can't ride my motorcycle.

There is a term "egregore". If you would like to know more about what I'm talking about without me having to explain it all step-by-step (true, that might be what YOU want if you are really bored, but not necessarily what I want)--then look it up. The word is "egregore". xoxo
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#25116 - 05/29/09 10:34 AM Re: Atheistic Satanism [Re: Scarlett156]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3116
From the rambling I can only conclude you are still wrestling whether or not there is a god, you are agnostic.

 Quote:

I will keep in mind that the members here seem to prefer tidy arguments where there's only one "right" answer.

I prefer a decent, short and clear answer which can be backed-up. Not 2 different statements you ramble about..


I'm not going to answer/criticise the rest of your post since it's nothing more then rambling about...
Try to get things straight. No one ever died of thinking things thoroughly.


Edited by Dimitri (05/29/09 10:34 AM)
Edit Reason: spell-check
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