#22763 - 04/01/09 07:46 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: godganesa]
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blsk
member
Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
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(Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?)
-Who cares?? But to answer your qestion, no. According to the judeo-christian mythology, SATAN is the devils name. Very common in the western world. But, tomato potato. Call it what you will. That is the beauty of nothing, you can call it whatever you want.
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#23224 - 04/11/09 10:51 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
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"Knife" Sotelo
stranger
Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 25
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This is kinda like that 'God is the Devil' argument. Although I already know that the Jebus myth is a sprinkled version of the Horus story. I would also like to point out that Christ calls himself the Morning Star a couple of times, just something to think about while fundies are thinking of a way to combat that 
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#23246 - 04/12/09 03:07 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: paolo sette]
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Dan_Dread
stalker
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Your (drug induced?) style of posting makes my head hurt.
You should learn the actual history of that religion before you try to give a synopses. If Jesus even existed, which is unlikely because there is no evidence to support that claim, (even though, had he existed as the bible said there should be volumes) he would have been a Rabbi holding mostly true to rabbinical code.
By no stretch, in any version of history, christian or scientific, was he put to death for 'wining(sic) and esoteric jibberish(sic)'. He was either killed for, if he lived, being a revolutionary, if he lived as christians claim, going against the accepted religious law, or he did not live at all.
If people were indeed put to death for 'gibberish', I would think your time must be coming soon.
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#23251 - 04/12/09 03:40 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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Henrik
stranger
Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Finland
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Jesus was propably a historical figure. He's been mentioned in other peoples writings around the Mediterranian, during the first century. I'm pulling this out of wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus and what was told in my finnish high school education.
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#23252 - 04/12/09 03:52 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Henrik]
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Dan_Dread
stalker
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Hi Henrik. Who is it you think mentioned 'jesus' in their writings at a time contemporary to when he would have lived?
Not to hijack this thread further, but nothing on that wikipedia article you posted would seem to confirm that. There are plenty of early references to 'christians', but nobody is disputing that the cult itself is very old. However references to jesus himself are pretty much confined to the bible.
Imagine in 1000 years when people argue that lord Xenu must have existed, because of historical reference to Tom Cruise claiming so. Pretty much the same set of circumstances.
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#23255 - 04/12/09 04:10 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Dan_Dread]
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Jake999
senior member
Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
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Well... there are two passages from the "historian" Josephus, although in reading them, there's an obvious prejudice. The "historian" had been coopted by the influence that the budding sect of Christians was beginning to spread, and it should be noted that his history, called ANTIQUITIES was composed a number of years after the death of the even then mythical figure of Jesus. The estimate is about the year 70 C.E. So, while Josephus was born NEAR the time of Jesus (about 37 C.E., he was reporting based on the depictions of others.
This passage is known as the Testimonium Flavianum, from Book 18 of ANTIQUITIES.
"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."
From Book 20 if ANTIQUITIES, there is a reference to Jesus in a paragraph describing the murder of Jesus' brother, James,
"But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned."
It's sometimes said that Josephus was a "Roman historian and a Jew," but if you consider carefully what he wrote, "He was the Christ," NO JEW would have written this. The idea of Jesus being "The Christ - Messiah" would be as blasphemic to them as for a Christian to deny it. So it's more probably that the bias in Josephus' accounts was via indoctrination in the sect's teachings.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.
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#23258 - 04/12/09 04:38 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Jake999]
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Henrik
stranger
Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Finland
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It seems that you have far more knowledge. I really didn't have a personal belief on this but decided to post what information I had or found on the relatively sourceful wikipedia. Of course you mentioned only one instance from one book, but I'm impressed.
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#23259 - 04/12/09 04:44 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Jake999]
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Meq
Banned
active member
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
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So it's more probably that the bias in Josephus' accounts was via indoctrination in the sect's teachings.
As far as I'm aware, Josephus was not a huge fan of the Jewish Messiah cult, and leaned more towards Plato's philosophy. Unless he was a Christian (which is doubtful), it seems more likely that the two references to Jesus were spurious later additions by the Christian Church.
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#23262 - 04/12/09 05:13 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Jake999]
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Dan_Dread
stalker
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Book 18 of ANTIQUITIES has had it's authenticity disputed since the 17th century or so. Most historians and scholars admit it is probably either an embellishment on the part of a christian scribes or an outright forgery.
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#23271 - 04/12/09 07:45 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Jake999]
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Dan_Dread
stalker
Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
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Well...'so called' christ. To me that doesn't acknowledge an invested belief so much as point out there were others calling someone 'christ' at that time. There were many messianic cults, so it doesn't really mean much.
But I suppose it is possible that all the writing is authentic and josephus himself was under the influence of the 'church of god', but I haven't read anything to indicate that.
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#23280 - 04/12/09 09:16 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: Jake999]
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Meq
Banned
active member
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
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Well, since Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as the OT's Joshua - a fitting Messiah's name - and there were a lot of proposed Messiahs or Christs, it is feasible there were multiple "Jesus Christs".
Due to his disgruntlement with the Jewish messiah madness, however, I seriously doubt Josephus himself called any Jesus "The Christ".
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#31732 - 11/15/09 04:09 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name?
[Re: Meq]
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nocTifer
pledge
Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
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...Josephus ... leaned more towards Plato's philosophy. ...it seems more likely that the two references to Jesus were spurious later additions by the Christian Church.
I love and collect Jesus stories, and even wrote one, but all of them are fictions. there's some great text on the magical character of at least some of the Jesus stories such as by Morton Smith. Betz's Greek Papyri and Demotic Spells, the Coptic text on Ancient Christian Magic, and Luck's Arcana Mundi can provide a foundation from which to approach the Jesus (Joshua) character as an instructive model or prototype on the order of Gandalf (Olorin) or Merlin (Myrddin). I've certainly used it in this way.
I suppose, given the terminological intersection here, that the Myrddin/Joshua meeting place may constitute a real option as regards Jesus Christ being the Devil's name. both were sired by spirits. both had periods in the wild. both were accused of instructing against societal standards, both of course cast spells and were accused of employing the power of demons to effect their results. but ultimately the Jesus character is once removed from the Devil in that Jesus is said to use Satan's power to do mischievous magic, and the titles or names of the Devil ("Mastema", "Baal", "Satan", "Lucifer", "Ialdabaoth", etc.) do NOT resemble in character those such as "Christ" and "Paraclete" given to the Christian Saviour.
Edited by nocTifer (11/15/09 04:10 PM)
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#31848 - 11/17/09 06:50 PM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name?
[Re: nocTifer]
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Choronzon333
stranger
Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
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As far as Wikipedia, they are not a reliable source to be quoting. You would probably be much better giving passages from the Holy Bible.
There is reference to Jesus being the Morning Star, but as we all know the Bible was written by someone tripping on Acid.
Okay, maybe several people 
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#32192 - 11/24/09 01:29 AM
Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
[Re: godganesa]
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TheCusp
Douchebag
stranger
Registered: 11/16/09
Posts: 14
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Whether the dude actually existed or not, I think I could make a case for the "power of christ" as an archetype.
There is a lot of randomness in dreams, and the key to achieving reliable control over your dreams when in a lucid state is to use stable well defined archetypes. JC as an archetype, is incredibly stable and well defined, with few variations aside from the raptor riding variety.
Listening to Coast to Coast AM, you often hear of people who, when faced with a freaky situation invoke the name of Jesus out of sheer desperation even though they don't believe at all. And it works. I think there was an entire show dedicated to that topic.
The majority of those cases are alien abduction and demon type shit, even reportedly works against shadow people. The fact that the JC archetype always works so reliably even when faith isn't present leads me to believe that most of those instances occurred in some sort of dream state.
But even as a Satanist, you have to respect the potential influence the JC archetype has for control of your surroundings. Drop the J-bomb a few times around the right people and you can have them eating out of the palm of your hand.
And speaking of coast, if anyone is familiar with it, I think the frequent caller JC is actually Weird All Yankovic. The character's voices progresses over time like most cartoon characters do. Just find a weird all interview online and compare them.
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