Page all of 3 123>
Topic Options
#22711 - 03/30/09 08:23 PM Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?
godganesa Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Marin County, California
Hi,
Don't you think that the name Jesus Christ sounds like the name of some dragon, or some ancient serpent. It's almost like Jesus Christ is the monster Tiamat from Babylonian mythology. Was Jesus Christ the devil and was he slain in the crucifixion? In the Bible Moses was commanded by God to put a serpent on a cross or pole, to slay the other serpents. What the hell is Jesus Christ?
_________________________
Aum Ganesha Namah

Top
#22712 - 03/30/09 08:37 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: godganesa]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Jesus Christ is a fictional character. Christ is a title meaning "annoited one". I know nothing of dragons or devils, but I know a stupid question when I see one. And, despite what you may have been told, there is such a thing as a stupid question.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#22713 - 03/30/09 08:48 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Why do you think Jesus Christ sounds like the name of a Dragon? I assume you're a theistic Satanist judging from your post.
_________________________
Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

Top
#22760 - 04/01/09 05:40 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Morbid Rex]
godganesa Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Marin County, California
What do you think of the psychology of being the devil or called the devil when in fear you try to be good and preach righteousness or in abject fear pray to be good or what not?
Wouldn't you be scared shitless if you thought you were the Devil?
In horrifying fear of burning in hell or whatever horrors God or the commonfolk would do to you?
Maybe that's how Frankenstein felt? Or even how Jesus Christ felt?
Maybe we should reconsider how we treat the devil?
Could Jesus Christ be the devil not necessarily as the evilest being but just because he is the primal serpentine being?
I used to think this way and got incredibly frightened.
_________________________
Aum Ganesha Namah

Top
#22763 - 04/01/09 07:46 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: godganesa]
blsk Offline
member


Registered: 09/22/08
Posts: 298
Loc: salem or
(Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name?)

-Who cares?? But to answer your qestion, no. According to the judeo-christian mythology, SATAN is the devils name. Very common in the western world. But, tomato potato. Call it what you will. That is the beauty of nothing, you can call it whatever you want.
_________________________
Ed made mens sewing cool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9mhsW5aWJM

Top
#22775 - 04/02/09 08:22 AM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: godganesa]
MaggotFaceMoe Offline
member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 164
Loc: Finland
Don't you think Frankenstein is like Jesus, at least they share something in characteristics, both were misunderstood and all.
Just like the serpent...

Do you actually do anything in your life? Do you have work or even some healthy hobby? Because by the looks of your posts you have been too long sitting in your room reading fantasy books that you start to think they are real and from this world.
It's not a bad thing to read and study other religions but there's a limit to it when it starts getting unhealthy. Apparently you went over that line.

Top
#23224 - 04/11/09 10:51 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: MaggotFaceMoe]
"Knife" Sotelo Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/19/09
Posts: 25
This is kinda like that 'God is the Devil' argument. Although I already know that the Jebus myth is a sprinkled version of the Horus story. I would also like to point out that Christ calls himself the Morning Star a couple of times, just something to think about while fundies are thinking of a way to combat that ;\)
Top
#23239 - 04/12/09 02:06 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: "Knife" Sotelo]
paolo sette Offline
member


Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 263
Loc: IL, USA
Christ was a man that tried to offer ficticious ways of acting, reacting, and interacting with others. He said one thing, but the rest did another. For example, storybook tellers do a much better job of telling fiction because they use other mediums like comedy to place the story in. He was full of shit back then 2,000 years ago, and he was terminated because others wanted to put a stop to his wining and esoteric jibberish. If his sayings didn't pertain to the real world back then, how can they 'hold water' now? It's just a lost cause.

They even made a religion that is supposed to exemplify Christ. How backwards is that? Why don't they make a religion about 'Winny-the-Pooh' or 'Bugs Bunny?' At least these two characters have something more to offer.
_________________________
tathagata-svapratyatma-aryajnana-adhigama
666
[nig]-ge-na-da a-ba in-da-di nam-ti i-u-tu

Top
#23246 - 04/12/09 03:07 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: paolo sette]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Your (drug induced?) style of posting makes my head hurt.


You should learn the actual history of that religion before you try to give a synopses. If Jesus even existed, which is unlikely because there is no evidence to support that claim, (even though, had he existed as the bible said there should be volumes) he would have been a Rabbi holding mostly true to rabbinical code.

By no stretch, in any version of history, christian or scientific, was he put to death for 'wining(sic) and esoteric jibberish(sic)'. He was either killed for, if he lived, being a revolutionary, if he lived as christians claim, going against the accepted religious law, or he did not live at all.

If people were indeed put to death for 'gibberish', I would think your time must be coming soon.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#23251 - 04/12/09 03:40 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Henrik Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Finland
Jesus was propably a historical figure. He's been mentioned in other peoples writings around the Mediterranian, during the first century. I'm pulling this out of wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus and what was told in my finnish high school education.
Top
#23252 - 04/12/09 03:52 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Henrik]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Hi Henrik. Who is it you think mentioned 'jesus' in their writings at a time contemporary to when he would have lived?

Not to hijack this thread further, but nothing on that wikipedia article you posted would seem to confirm that. There are plenty of early references to 'christians', but nobody is disputing that the cult itself is very old. However references to jesus himself are pretty much confined to the bible.

Imagine in 1000 years when people argue that lord Xenu must have existed, because of historical reference to Tom Cruise claiming so. Pretty much the same set of circumstances.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#23254 - 04/12/09 04:05 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Henrik Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Finland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus#Greco-Roman_sources

I read these parts as the source of information... I thought it seemed to fit well.

Top
#23255 - 04/12/09 04:10 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... there are two passages from the "historian" Josephus, although in reading them, there's an obvious prejudice. The "historian" had been coopted by the influence that the budding sect of Christians was beginning to spread, and it should be noted that his history, called ANTIQUITIES was composed a number of years after the death of the even then mythical figure of Jesus. The estimate is about the year 70 C.E. So, while Josephus was born NEAR the time of Jesus (about 37 C.E., he was reporting based on the depictions of others.

This passage is known as the Testimonium Flavianum, from Book 18 of ANTIQUITIES.

"Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was the Christ, and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men among us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him; for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of Christians so named from him are not extinct at this day."

From Book 20 if ANTIQUITIES, there is a reference to Jesus in a paragraph describing the murder of Jesus' brother, James,

"But the younger Ananus who, as we said, received the high priesthood, was of a bold disposition and exceptionally daring; he followed the party of the Sadducees, who are severe in judgment above all the Jews, as we have already shown. As therefore Ananus was of such a disposition, he thought he had now a good opportunity, as Festus was now dead, and Albinus was still on the road; so he assembled a council of judges, and brought before it the brother of Jesus the so-called Christ, whose name was James, together with some others, and having accused them as lawbreakers, he delivered them over to be stoned."

It's sometimes said that Josephus was a "Roman historian and a Jew," but if you consider carefully what he wrote, "He was the Christ," NO JEW would have written this. The idea of Jesus being "The Christ - Messiah" would be as blasphemic to them as for a Christian to deny it. So it's more probably that the bias in Josephus' accounts was via indoctrination in the sect's teachings.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#23258 - 04/12/09 04:38 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Jake999]
Henrik Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 16
Loc: Finland
It seems that you have far more knowledge. I really didn't have a personal belief on this but decided to post what information I had or found on the relatively sourceful wikipedia. Of course you mentioned only one instance from one book, but I'm impressed.
Top
#23259 - 04/12/09 04:44 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Jake999]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
 Originally Posted By: Jake999
So it's more probably that the bias in Josephus' accounts was via indoctrination in the sect's teachings.

As far as I'm aware, Josephus was not a huge fan of the Jewish Messiah cult, and leaned more towards Plato's philosophy. Unless he was a Christian (which is doubtful), it seems more likely that the two references to Jesus were spurious later additions by the Christian Church.

Top
#23260 - 04/12/09 04:52 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Meq]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
That's always a possibility, Meq, but as far as I've been able to read, I've never seen any indications of it. Of course, the chances of any of use ever getting close enough to the actual texts to do any real in depth analysis is about as improbable as me ever being elevated to Pope of the Catholic Church!
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#23262 - 04/12/09 05:13 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Book 18 of ANTIQUITIES has had it's authenticity disputed since the 17th century or so. Most historians and scholars admit it is probably either an embellishment on the part of a christian scribes or an outright forgery.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#23267 - 04/12/09 07:14 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Yeah, Dan. I'm aware of the dispute on its authenticity, but I haven't seen anything that indicates they've found a definitive positive marker on it. The place where Josephus calls Jesus "THE CHRIST" definitely points to some kind of influence.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#23271 - 04/12/09 07:45 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well...'so called' christ. To me that doesn't acknowledge an invested belief so much as point out there were others calling someone 'christ' at that time. There were many messianic cults, so it doesn't really mean much.

But I suppose it is possible that all the writing is authentic and josephus himself was under the influence of the 'church of god', but I haven't read anything to indicate that.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#23280 - 04/12/09 09:16 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Jake999]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Well, since Jesus (Yeshua) is the same name as the OT's Joshua - a fitting Messiah's name - and there were a lot of proposed Messiahs or Christs, it is feasible there were multiple "Jesus Christs".

Due to his disgruntlement with the Jewish messiah madness, however, I seriously doubt Josephus himself called any Jesus "The Christ".

Top
#23286 - 04/13/09 03:14 AM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Meq]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It is assumed -and probably true- that while copying the works, those nifty little monks added their desires into the new books. After all, how silly of some to forget the greatest of all and how just it would be to add the lacking information for the good of humanity.
Personally I would not trust a lot those monk-ie-s have copied.

There is some controversy about an Arabic version of Flavius work which has the passage written slightly different and more in touch with what the real Josephus would have written. As far as anyone knew the real Josephus.

D.

Top
#31732 - 11/15/09 04:09 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: Meq]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
 Originally Posted By: Meq
...Josephus ... leaned more towards Plato's philosophy. ...it seems more likely that the two references to Jesus were spurious later additions by the Christian Church.
that is my understanding. the most common source i've seen attested constructing these spurious additions was Eusebius.

I love and collect Jesus stories, and even wrote one, but all of them are fictions. there's some great text on the magical character of at least some of the Jesus stories such as by Morton Smith. Betz's Greek Papyri and Demotic Spells, the Coptic text on Ancient Christian Magic, and Luck's Arcana Mundi can provide a foundation from which to approach the Jesus (Joshua) character as an instructive model or prototype on the order of Gandalf (Olorin) or Merlin (Myrddin). I've certainly used it in this way.

I suppose, given the terminological intersection here, that the Myrddin/Joshua meeting place may constitute a real option as regards Jesus Christ being the Devil's name. both were sired by spirits. both had periods in the wild. both were accused of instructing against societal standards, both of course cast spells and were accused of employing the power of demons to effect their results. but ultimately the Jesus character is once removed from the Devil in that Jesus is said to use Satan's power to do mischievous magic, and the titles or names of the Devil ("Mastema", "Baal", "Satan", "Lucifer", "Ialdabaoth", etc.) do NOT resemble in character those such as "Christ" and "Paraclete" given to the Christian Saviour.


Edited by nocTifer (11/15/09 04:10 PM)
_________________________
Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.facebook.com/Tr0llT0welhead
http://www.gospel-of-satan.com

Top
#31848 - 11/17/09 06:50 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: nocTifer]
Choronzon333 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/05/09
Posts: 20
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
As far as Wikipedia, they are not a reliable source to be quoting. You would probably be much better giving passages from the Holy Bible.


There is reference to Jesus being the Morning Star, but as we all know the Bible was written by someone tripping on Acid.


Okay, maybe several people \:\)

Top
#31852 - 11/17/09 07:25 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: Choronzon333]
Sonsosatan Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/28/09
Posts: 12
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Lucifer is a former Angel cast out of Heaven, whereas Jesus or the Son of Joseph of Nazareth was the Son of God.
I think that the pedigree of those two situations prevents any cross-over, however, agreed...the magic mushrooms that grow in the wilds of Israel are renown for their affects on the thought centers of the brain. It is without a doubt that the Dan Browns of those ancient days were influenced heavily on opiates.
But unlike Dan Brown, they could write...[humour not intended to insult those followers of Dan Brown novels]
_________________________
"The death of fear is in doing what you fear to do."

Top
#31855 - 11/17/09 08:17 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: Sonsosatan]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
Why do they consider J. Christ the son of David, and expound upon his genealogy in some gospels as being part of Joseph's lineage? I thought some kind of bizarre ghost impregnated Mary. In that case, male genealogy would be irrelevant. Is this an oversight? Or patriarchy?
_________________________
Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

Top
#31856 - 11/17/09 08:29 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: GillesdeRais]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Would any of this figure in?

Isaiah 14:12
How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn!
You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Revelation 22:16,
"I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

It sounds as if Jesus is Lucifer here?
Has anyone read the Diabolicon? It contains similar references in some respect.

Top
#31858 - 11/17/09 08:50 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: Ankhhape]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
Confusing the Old Testament and the New Testament can be an interesting hobby, as per your citations, but I don't really see how that 'helps me' understand the answer to my question. Maybe I should take more courses describing Christian Apologetics. Oh, wait, I found out that they represented a socially-useful myth. Praise Mithra! ;\)
_________________________
Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

Top
#31859 - 11/17/09 08:58 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: GillesdeRais]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Better question: Why concern yourself with such questions? The whole book is bullshit anyway so leave the "baby-daddy" problems to Maury.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#31864 - 11/17/09 09:33 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: GillesdeRais]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
 Originally Posted By: GillesdeRais
Confusing the Old Testament and the New Testament can be an interesting hobby, as per your citations, but I don't really see how that 'helps me' understand the answer to my question. Maybe I should take more courses describing Christian Apologetics. Oh, wait, I found out that they represented a socially-useful myth. Praise Mithra! ;\)
Who the hell is responding to your question, I could care less if anything I say 'helps' you. I was responding to the OP (godganesa).

Top
#31865 - 11/17/09 10:06 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's Name? [Re: Ankhhape]
GillesdeRais Offline
member


Registered: 09/08/09
Posts: 141
Gee, sorry Ankhhape, I kind of came in on the tail-end there. For a second I thought your post was tendered to bear some relevance to the post before my answer to what I thought was your response. Keep going, you're doing fine. ;\)
_________________________
Philosophy, n. A route of many roads leading from nowhere to nothing.

Top
#32117 - 11/22/09 07:14 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Meq]
Babylonian Dream Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Upstate New York
Jesus is Simon Bar Kovba (don't know if that's how you spell it) mixed in with mythological gods like horus and given the birthstory of Cyrus of Persia complete with the zoroastrian magi.

Though what we have that is from Josephus has been hampered with too much, it can be of use in the same way the Histories of Herodotus are. No classical historian was 100% accurate, nor were their works even just 80% nondistorted. There are so many errors, and on top of that many are 3rd hand sources writing about stuff from before they were born, adding in long lost details only those historians remembered.
_________________________
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" Sagan

Top
#32125 - 11/22/09 11:23 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Babylonian Dream]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
While Jesus' existence is questionable, he was most certainly NOT the Simon you speak of. The Simon-as-Jesus theory is based off the alleged writings on an ancient stone called Gabriel's Tablet which has been disproved by most reputable theologians, anthropologists, archeologists, and scientists. In fact, the unknown author of the tablet blatantly states in the text that the entire story is a "vision" he had. Professor Israel Knohl of the University of Jerusalem has been on a personal crusade for almost 10 years to prove that Simon was the prophesied messiah, but examination and testing of the tablet has not been able to affirm any of Knohl's claims. Several lines of the tablet are missing large portions of text. It's bull-hooey.

Abrahamic mythology is exactly that; mythology. There are no absolutes, only fallible faith.
_________________________
So long, and thanks for all the fish.

Top
#32161 - 11/23/09 07:14 PM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: Octavius]
Babylonian Dream Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 43
Loc: Upstate New York
Not only that, there were enough messiahs at the time. there was John the Baptist (yeah the mandeans still see him, not jesus, as the messiah), Simon Bar Khokba (however you spell son of the star's name) and others. The irony is, the only undocumented messiah seems to be Jesus. I doubt he was crucified if he did exist because he was a nobody. and the romans didn't crucify 3 people alone if there wasn't a good enough a reason to waste the time and not ship them to the cesarea colleseum instead with the rest.

There are so many wholes in the whole story of Jesus that it almost looks like its made of swiss cheese.


Edited by Babylonian Dream (11/23/09 07:15 PM)
_________________________
"We are a way for the cosmos to know itself" Sagan

Top
#32192 - 11/24/09 01:29 AM Re: Is Jesus Christ the Devil's name? [Re: godganesa]
TheCusp Offline
Douchebag
stranger


Registered: 11/16/09
Posts: 14
Whether the dude actually existed or not, I think I could make a case for the "power of christ" as an archetype.

There is a lot of randomness in dreams, and the key to achieving reliable control over your dreams when in a lucid state is to use stable well defined archetypes. JC as an archetype, is incredibly stable and well defined, with few variations aside from the raptor riding variety.

Listening to Coast to Coast AM, you often hear of people who, when faced with a freaky situation invoke the name of Jesus out of sheer desperation even though they don't believe at all. And it works. I think there was an entire show dedicated to that topic.

The majority of those cases are alien abduction and demon type shit, even reportedly works against shadow people. The fact that the JC archetype always works so reliably even when faith isn't present leads me to believe that most of those instances occurred in some sort of dream state.

But even as a Satanist, you have to respect the potential influence the JC archetype has for control of your surroundings. Drop the J-bomb a few times around the right people and you can have them eating out of the palm of your hand.


And speaking of coast, if anyone is familiar with it, I think the frequent caller JC is actually Weird All Yankovic. The character's voices progresses over time like most cartoon characters do. Just find a weird all interview online and compare them.

Top
Page all of 3 123>


Moderator:  SkaffenAmtiskaw, fakepropht, TV is God, Woland, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.041 seconds of which 0.001 seconds were spent on 47 queries. Zlib compression disabled.