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#22783 - 04/02/09 12:54 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: 97and107]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
My neighbors used to be Illuminati and when they were on vacation I had to feed their dog. Ask me anything about it, really, I know it all now.

Now for the Homo Simplissimus amongst us –that is you in case even that was hard to get- I am NOT related to THEM or ONA and thus, do not feel inclined to either answer or dodge the simple questions you didn't ask to begin with. So your whole banter about dodging, grandstanding, obtusely hostile secrecy and an unwillingness to answer and due to that, coming to your superb conclusion it must be bullshit is based upon, well sorry bullshit. Might I suggest you take a snapshot of your ass as a user picture here because that seems to be the part you are arguing from most of the time.

You are not a proto-satanist, you are a proto-joke. The one they created first as an example for all following. Like I mentioned before, you know jackshit about Satanism and think that if only you rattle simplicities long enough, people won't notice. It might work however, but probably only amongst proto-satanists.

If you're sick about wasting your time here, imagine how we feel about you wasting ours.

D.

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#22818 - 04/02/09 08:36 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Hello,
Right Then. I've answered all of these in one go.

------------------------------------------------------------


Exactly what kind of global changes are you trying to enact?

I looked for a mission statement or something but all I found was this manifesto tract thing that I would have to pay 8 bucks for on lulu.

*A Permanent Change in Consciousness.

Yeah I was wondering that too! What's the point?

*Some can buy our Work – others can access it freely. Which – if either - depends on them. The Work relating to any kind of mission statement is already available freely at our blog.

what kind of contribution?

*A Sinister one.

*The groups you or anyone else has encountered connected to ONA make no difference to the quality of THEM as an LHp path.

What kind of global changes? Everyone wearing dark clothes? Everyone submitting their will to yet another religion/ideology? Give me a break...

*Alright, I will. Anyone else can read our MSS, talk to us, look at what we’ve done and are doing for further depth to any of the other questions posed. And it’s not following in the footsteps of the ONA.

And what with the significant history? It's the history of your temple you are writing, not the one of Australia..

*I disagree. You disagree. Time will tell.

you are selling hot air I presume?

*And you are presuming hot air?

My mind wonders.. how can you start a "temple" with only six persons?

*Lol. Yes, but you’re an arrogant opinionated idiot – so I suspect your mind wonders a lot. How we did it isn’t really of interest to you is it? It’s done. We’re Here. Catch up. Move on.

There's nothing new about secret organizations seeking to control the world in some way - it's old, it's been done, it's mostly bullshit. The real power is in the individual and certainly not in any organized coven, Satanic or not...

*Yes - you are correct. But we mirror the magian – set up everything they set up for you that entraps you – but then break it – break it all. Thus demonstrating how the trick is done and ruining their control.

Though you may choose to waste time with it, i do not.

*You say a lot for someone who doesn’t wish to waste their time.

. I "get" what is going on here with regards to groups seeking decadence and power, but it's only a marker on the path, it is not the goal in itself. We would have achieved it a long time ago if this were the case.

*No. No you don’t. And THEM is already powerful – the difference is in the intent behind gathering that power and how it is gathered – and what is being done with it. ISS

won't begrudge people the learning process, anyways...been there, done that. I won't go on...feel free to "explain yourself" so I might understand, then...go ahead.

*LOl. But you are. You’re begrudging them the option of casting cynicism to the side and exploring a unique path which you know nothing about and project prejudice onto based on past experience.

What's to eat? More vague allusions to even vaguer secrets and hidden movements? Murder? Violence? Black magick? Jesus, welcome to the human race...

*No. Cynic.

I have probably read more books than most Satanists, and these shrinking evasions of yours are doing nothing to prop up my confidence in any organized Satanic faction, especially not the one you are promoting here.

*Lol. Most eh? This explains a lot.

For a group of Satanists, you don't appear to talk about Satan much in your literature

*Don’t We? To some of us - Satan is represented in his proper context – not as an isolated figure or form but as a organic living Ethos. There are more than a few members of THEM who do talk about Satan – each of us have our own views, our own weltanschauung and practices – it just happens that those presented publically, do not. ONA already talked about Satan enough – and covered it very well. Well enough that we felt it time to move on and presence Him.

Is Satan still a relevant figurehead for Satanism today?

*We don’t presume to answer that for anyone but ourselves. He is still relevant to THEM in certain context as in his many forms illustrates a variety of useful and constructive lessons – esp where form and change, are concerned. And that is what THEM are mainly concerned with: Change.

I used to be good friends with an ONA FAH-REAK....

It's a bunch of hot air...very ego-driven, lots of fun, but unimpressive to someone like me who doesn't give a shit about fakeshit...

*Lol. Oh? Me too. I’ve spoken to hundreds of them. But just because they copied knowledge into their minds like you have done – didn’t mean they understood the essence of the Seven-Fold Way.

How can you tell someone is dealing in fakeshit? Lots of dodging, grandstanding, obtusely hostile secrecy and an unwillingness to answer even the simplest godamned questions. Pile on top of that an attack on anyone who dares question, and you have a bullshit factory. Since you can't seem to manifest any reasonable statement about your mythological cult, yes, I call bullshit.

*Oh please. Have some fucking patience. You’re not at the top of my list of people to reply to. Our interest isn’t with the hardened cynical glyphs like you friend – your ego is far too thick to crack - many of our MSS are freely available to anyone wishing to investigate THEM for themselves; and the dual-reaction we’re getting is the same tired old shite that’s been happening since forever when a person tries something new.

I'm sick of wasting my time here.

*LOL. Really? But you really seem to enjoy it.

by the way, went through the blog - I was not impressed. it could be picked apart a million ways from here to Sunday. Contrary to my *adversarial* relationship, my interest is in promoting Satanism, not degrading it...

*Points* See that? Ignorance, arrogance, closed-mindedness and prejudicial pre-judgment that flavours all his comments? That is the consciousness we wish to change. To develop genuine esoteric depth. It’s a slow, unrewarding process with lots of bullshit to take on and endure and ignore – but someone has to do it – and THEM, are contributing to it. THEM are not ONA – and differ greatly in their approach and understanding in many fundamental ways. The MSS are there. Look for yourself. Judge for yourself. Or, conversely - let others decide what is what for you.

Alright,

ISS,
Khk





















Edited by Khk (04/02/09 08:48 PM)

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#22820 - 04/02/09 08:44 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: The Zebu]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Oh and this...

If you're not interested and dilligent enough (and that's up to you) as a person to dig out the comments regarding self-initiation and so find out how to get all the ONA/THEM mss for free (well at least e-copies of them) - then generally you're not the sort of person at the stage where you require what we're offering, or, are for any other reason you don't join Mvimaedivm - going to have to stay on the outside and pay for them - assuming you want them.

But we both sell and give away all our works.
The way you get them - is determined by You.

ISS,

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#22832 - 04/02/09 09:48 PM Msg to Stag [Re: Khk]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Hello,
you wrote: Is Satan as a figurehead still relevant today?

Just some notes:

If you take two Satanic Bibles, and strip the cover off one, to be replaced with a New Testament cover - then place them on a table and ask someone to choose the Satanic Bible, which one will they choose?

The connotations of the Symbolism of Satan(ism) are still highly charged with numinous power - a draw - a hypnotism - even if they are not fully liminally comprehensible by those drawn to them. It is a symbol infused with meaning - even if that meaning is not clear.

That both books are actually Satanic Bibles but they reach for the one that is marked thusly - says something profound about the perception of the human being.

Likewise - if you take two Bibles, strip the cover off one and replace it with the Satanic Bible, ask them to reach for the Bible - they will repeat the action. The Sign - the Symbol - still has power, still has sway, still manipulates feelings, associations...

How the Symbol is used is up to those wielding it - but there is no question that the causal life of Satan and not so much what it represents, but THAT it represents is still very much alive, and very much relevant.

ISS,

PS - I am different from ONA, though connected - I do not know why Satan is not mentioned in their Mythos insomuch as I believe I understand their idea and apprehension of Satan to be more than a topic for categorization - and more a suffusion of a particular way of looking at the world as possessed by forms, of which Satan and Christ are the two most prominently etched in the Western consciousness, of which both Pagan and Christian values emanate the most strongly throughout all spheres, heavily influencing and restricting our lives to a certain Ethos - the two forms are inextricably interlaced - remnants living and ancient that say something very profound about our psyche, our formation - but both of them, even in their massive entirety and scope, only the dancing puppets of something infinitely more.

People have a very hard time getting beyond bouncing back and forth between the two forms of Christ and Satan - influenced by both so much, and yet so oblivious to the control these forms have that have permeated every sphere of humanity to its core.

Satan was taken out of his christian context as an opposing side by the ONA and used instead as a symbol of avenging power with an ethos that strives not to replace god in name - but above and beyond even that - to destroy and discredit such a pale and simple dichotomy of forms - to reflect what can actually be observed in life when such forms are stripped away - usually by experience.

The ONA understand that Satan has numinous power and reflects a certain 'something' which is in opposition to a certain 'something else'. They manipulate the power these somethings hold over people to influence and manipulate esoteric, psychic and magical changes in consciousness so that others will slip out of the Dichotomic noose altogether - by using the numinous power of 'Satan' as a vehicle. Once done individually via the Seven-Fold Way - the individual can then try to help the collective do the same (i.e. Via THEM).

But not just to do that - but to understand the immaterial nature of these forms and that they CHANGE, and are always changing and as they change illicit other effects and meanings on those they hold in thrall. Change the Symbol - Change the World.

ISS,


Edited by Khk (04/02/09 10:04 PM)

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#22856 - 04/03/09 02:11 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Dan_Dread]
97and107 Offline
member


Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 267
Loc: New Mexico
Dread you're suggesting I hijack the topic then to explain my understanding of Satanism?

Just refuting some bullshit, I'm not interested in redefining "Satanism" as I understand it you can't change something that is essentially *eternal*.

Now bye...

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#22858 - 04/03/09 03:27 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
Stag Offline
pledge


Registered: 09/20/07
Posts: 84
 Quote:
*We don’t presume to answer that for anyone but ourselves. He is still relevant to THEM in certain context as in his many forms illustrates a variety of useful and constructive lessons – esp where form and change, are concerned. And that is what THEM are mainly concerned with: Change.


It seems to me that the closer we get to the precipice, the more nebulous and branching our conception of 'Satan' becomes. My difficulty is understanding then, when presumably, it ceases to be 'Satan' at all?

Sometimes I feel the only thing that draws to 'Satan' is a sense of nostalgia -- inertia, even.

Stag

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#22860 - 04/03/09 03:46 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
Lucius600 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 28
Loc: USA
Online Australian Satanism is also unfortunately being targeted by the censorship gestapo.I wish them well,but Satanists are begining to be mentioned in the same breath as terrorists and pedophiles there.
_________________________
stop the forgiveness of child molesters, UN-SEAT jesus!

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#22882 - 04/04/09 12:05 AM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Lucius600]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Hello,
What do you mean?

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#22902 - 04/04/09 04:33 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
Lucius600 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 28
Loc: USA
I wasn't commenting on The Temple of THEM as an organization,but the mention of australian Satanism got me to thinknig about an article I read recently on censorship policies in 'democratic' countries.Specifically, The Australian Communications and Media Authority put out a blacklist to reduce 'dangerous and illegal' activities online.Satanism was one of the areas targeted.Thankfully the Australian Public disapproved as the 'Blacklist' was released to an anti-censorship group and it was to have revealed to include random,clearly non-threatening sites.Perhaps a little off topic,but censorship is a hot button issue for me.
_________________________
stop the forgiveness of child molesters, UN-SEAT jesus!

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#22934 - 04/04/09 11:21 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Lucius600]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
As History shows, anything even remotely new, is demonized by certain powers that be. CHANGE IS EXTREMELY SLOW.

Thankfully - we live in an age, and a country (Australia) where freedom of speech is tolerated, and the scare-mongering and labelling of groups presenting their own view of the world as 'Terrorist' (Qv. Communist, Witch) are examined carefully and with more than a modicum of intelligence. Over here, the sort of bullshit America's pulling on it's people - doesn't cut the mustard.

The Temple of THEM is revolutionary, but it is not a terrorist organization.

ISS,


Edited by Khk (04/04/09 11:21 PM)

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#22936 - 04/04/09 11:26 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Stag]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
It seems to me that the closer we get to the precipice, the more nebulous and branching our conception of 'Satan' becomes. My difficulty is understanding then, when presumably, it ceases to be 'Satan' at all?

*Nebulous. I agree with you. And it's not a difficulty you're alone in. I have taken the notes I gave above on Satan, and added some further notes to them on this subject - which I will release shortly, (a few days time) from the Temple blog.

Though I would say - it (Satanism) ceases to be Satanic, and Satan ceases to be Satan, when one breaks through to an appreciation that 'Satan' is an external form for something altogether esoteric. Wherein forms capture some of this esotericism, they cannot imprison it in full.

ISS,


Edited by Khk (04/04/09 11:27 PM)

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#22972 - 04/05/09 05:33 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
THEM's primary collective goal is to presence the Dark Gods via a physical Australian Nexion, and implement a number of magical goals to effect certain global changes, all planned in a long-term strategic assault designed to give young Australia - a significant Sinister History.

I've pretty much read every publicly available document by the Order of Nine Angles, but I'm asking about "The Temple of THEM", not the ONA. All I'm asking for is a practical explanation of your goals.

I'll be honest here- if you're looking for global change, you're NOT going to be able to achieve it under the banner of Satanism, or any other occult current, for that matter. Everyone and their mother has their own little coven of "Blackck Magickians" out to change the world, and a bunch of little "specialty" groups all with their own agenda aren't going to achieve diddly-squat. Most of them just hide in dark rooms, holding on to the delusion that their silly little group rituals are somehow causing worldwide change or some bullshit like that, without even THINKING about real-world action.

Sure, you guys probably pay a lot of lip service to the latter part, but I'll I've ever seen come out of it is a bunch of "more evil-than-thou" chest-beating, and occasional flirtation with extremist idealism- while, being flashy and confrontational- has no bearing in the real political world. Most don't even get to the "action" part, using some kind of cop-out excuse about "magical working", as if ritual is a tenable substitute for real-world action.

So if all you're doing is dressing up in black and chanting misspelled Lovecraftian names, what kind of progress are you achieving, and why would the millions and millions of people in Australia give a shit?
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#22976 - 04/05/09 07:51 PM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: The Zebu]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Hello,
That you've read every publically available ONA mss doesn't make a difference - many have done that - and still, misunderstand the Septenary Way. And if you misunderstand the Septenary Way - you have a very slim chance of understanding THEM.

We disagree. Global change is already underway. The Temple blog, opened only a week ago has already recieved almost 1200 hits. Aeonics, like anything else in Satanism, and Change, takes time, planning, strategy - you cannot expect to see results immediately - unless you know what you are supposed to be looking for. Some of us (THEM) have already instructed others in black magic for more than two decades, myself for at least ten. I wonder how many groups you think are not connected to us and take your teachings from have been influenced by us? THe ONA while heavily influencing each of us - was not our only source of instruction - we are not restricted to that system though we may borrow and at times expand from it. Whether you see it or not - changes are afoot, changes have been made.

It is naive to think we don't realize that posting on the internet does not constitute all that needs to be done to illicit such changes as global connexion. The suggestion that we lack real world action is comedic - since such insights as we have do not and cannot come from sitting on one's ass nor from playing it safe - but like it or not - what those actions are, are our affair, not yours. We have already given more strategic secrets to Satanism away than any other group for the last 30 years - our conscience is clear.

Yes - I've seen the same, in fact, been the same, 'chest-beating, I am more evil than thou' - but what of the past? The present reality is that THEM, WSA352, a host of other Nexions, Associates and the ONA have formulated a powerful alliance - governed not by some over-arching leader but each a power unto their own - each an 'aepersonality' that, like it or not, have and are influencing thousands of people - and not with the aim of being yolked into a power-hungry ill-informed regurgitation of magic by some dogmatic rhetoricist, but taught the power of FORM, and how to unyolk themselves. We influence because we are unique - because we are self-honest - because we represent the natural flow. We understand many of the problems facing the Sinister in the past and have, accordingly, risen to meet the challenges.

So if all you're doing is dressing up in black and chanting misspelled Lovecraftian names, what kind of progress are you achieving, and why would the millions and millions of people in Australia give a shit?

I agree - if that was what WE were doing - i.e. continuing an external aspect of the early ONA; which aspect set out to, and achieved its global aim already - we would not be in the position we're in - for, like so many others, like you, - we would have misunderstood the ONA.

But - since you took pains to separate us from the ONA in your first paragraph, and specifically asked about US - and not the ONA, why did you associate one of their external forms and methods of practice, with ours? Even a cursory read of our mss would illustrate the fundamental differences (and there are many) from THEM to the ONA, as concerns magic, as concerns dark gods, as concerns the Sinister, as concerns Satan. - and yet, too a continuity that cannot be denied. But - to assume, merely because we have a connexion in name to the ONA that we are one and the same, is simply ignorance. It's generalization - sloppy thinking and assessment - not at all what WE at least would think appropriate analysis of a form by any Satanist - or by anyone seeking to understand the mechanics of 'real-action' and the causal fallout certain actions can take. It seems that anytime one of US come out to answer questions - people revert to being lazy.

Moreover - not only do you jump to wild conclusions about THEM, thus missing the point to many of our mss and the complex points they aim to teach besides what they contain - you separate real-action from what we are doing - which is raising consciousness - as if there were distinct self-contained components of Action and Thought; rather than co-joined in a unified numinous connexion. I must admit, I had that view too five years ago. I will just say that so many Changes can just as easily come from within, than without. We have proven this - and thus we proceed.

I should also point out - that if you understood politics as well as you claim, and imply that we do not - you would understand that changes do not require the direct permission or participation of millions - but the well-placed pressures and silent efforts of a few. There are not, for instance, millions of Satanists in Australia - there are perhaps 30,000 - having worked as a Statistician brings me closer to an estimate than anyone who hasn't.

I should also point out - that critcism is healthy, we should rather have it directed at us than not have it - for if our task were made easy - if there were nothing to struggle against, no stasis to overcome, it should indicate to us that our present aims were not worth it - that our energies were misplaced and our shoulders against the wrong fulcrum. I seek only to clarify our position in relation to your excited generalizations and ill-formed conclusions.

All I'm asking for is a practical explanation of your goals.

And I'm wondering why such a smart fellow with such a keen interest in our work hasn't been able to find this out for himself? Some of them are written down. Some of them are not. But I'm not your courier - why do you think we went to all the effort of writing so many mss about our aims and making them public? Could it be so others can read them for themselves? -

You should also take note - THEM were the first openly public ONA Co-Nexion to emerge and openly discuss and share the esoteric work of the ONA with a wider audience. Now, WSA352 has joined the fray - but you should not make the mistake of thinking others will be as courteous as US to unveil the Sinister - nor that we are so amateur as to detail ours aims, strategies, or reasons for THEM. We are when all is said and done - still, a Sinister Nexion. Call it 'dodging' all you like, something wicked this way comes and if you can't see it - it's just too bad.

Next time, if all you are doing is asking for a practical explaination of our aims, then that is all you should do.

ISS,


Edited by Khk (04/05/09 08:31 PM)

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#22983 - 04/05/09 09:02 PM 'Galactica' CD Release by the 07Stars Nexion [Re: Khk]
Khk Offline
member


Registered: 09/07/08
Posts: 398
Circle of Seven Stars Nexion presents:

‘Galactica’

Nearly 40 minutes of cold Cosmic ambience, dark atmosphere and deep-rooted longing for the stars. A vague cry out toward the interstellar fields of emptiness and utter stillness, where only Gods have wandered. . .

To be released through the Australian BLACK GLYPH SOCIETY.

Watch this space.

*******

“I have heard the music of the galaxy and the stars and planets within it.”

-Stephen Brown, ONA

*******

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#22999 - 04/06/09 12:47 AM Re: Australian Satanism + The Temple of THEM [Re: Khk]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Ad spamming not appreciated.

You still haven't proposed any actual mechanism for your "global change."

We disagree. Global change is already underway. The Temple blog, opened only a week ago has already recieved almost 1200 hits.

Yeah, and this guy gets twice that many hits... a day. At this rate he'll be the next Alexander the Great or something. Welcome to the internet.

You speak of "the well-placed pressures and silent efforts of a few." Why are YOU that special "few"? You claim to be influencing "thousands of people". What kind of people are you influencing? Leaders? The political-minded? People who can make things happen? Or a lot of bookish introverts who will end up joining some other organization after THEM loses gas like every other upstart group out to revolutionize Satanism?


Edited by The Zebu (04/06/09 12:48 AM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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