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#22788 - 04/02/09 03:29 PM About "contributing to Satanism".
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
About contributing to Satanism:

Many times I have seen, heard and witnessed people who are trying to "contribute something to Satanism". People started their own "organisations", churches, cults, sects, covens, grotto's,..
But every time such people tried to contribute "something" they stayed on a same level. Neverless how great their group was, somehow they didn't get renowned like Lavey,Aquino,Zeena,..

The plain fact these people didn't get renowned or known to the public is the plain fact you simply CAN'T contribute something to Satanism (in the sense of adding more value, new ideas,..).
Why can't someone contribute to Satanism? Because the philosophy on it's own is simply enough. Lavey and other important persons within Satanism have led the foundations of the philosophy. Anyone trying to add new ideas or "guidelines" are simply showing parts of their own personal views. They simply can't change the primary foundations.

What these people CAN do is discussing and sharing their views/opinions about the guidelines written in the SB. Within Satanism everything turns around your own individual well-being. You for yourself can interpret and associate own experiences from what you have read in the SB and related works.
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Last little topic I post before going on vacation tomorrow.
Cya guys within 2 weeks ;\)
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#22791 - 04/02/09 03:36 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I agree with you there. The foundations set in the Satanic Bible and related works seem to be pretty complete to me. There are also already plenty of Satanic groups out there already. In my humble opinion, the best way to contribute to Satanism is to encourage intelligent discussion, and to analyze what has already been laid out by LaVey and others.
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#22795 - 04/02/09 04:08 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
you simply CAN'T contribute something to Satanism (in the sense of adding more value, new ideas,..


I think that is a pretty closed minded and ignorant statement to make. There is always room for new ideas in everything. If you think TSB is endgame for Satanic thought and philosophy you are mistaken.

The only way we (as a species) can advance is being open to new ideas/concepts. Could you imagine what things would be like if people applied the "good enough" statement to other things?

To me, Satanism is not about just being "good enough" but striving to be the best and constantly looking for ways to make improvements to yourself in all possible areas. Just because you feel like no one has added anything worth value doesn't mean there is no room for improvement at all.
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No gods. No masters.

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#22798 - 04/02/09 04:31 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I should probably rephrase my previous statement. What I meant (though I don't know if I speak for the OP) is that I feel there is no real way to contribute to the *foundations* of Satanism. There is definitely room for new ideas, but I don't think, personally, that the "canon" needs revision at present.

Don't get me wrong, though. I think that it's not only possible, but necessary, to come up with new ideas about Satanic philosophy and ritual, and to discuss new interpretations of what already exists.

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#22804 - 04/02/09 05:12 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Let me first start with saying that your look upon things is a bit naive. It is not because people don't become as "famous" –which is an extremely relative value; you're only famous to the people that know you, which could be no more than four - as Lavey or Aquino, that they fail in what they do or should be considered as less. Not everything that happens out there in Satanism or under the label of Satanism is triggered by a need for fame and glory. At times Will is not bothered by instant recognition and Will does things solely because of Will.

Your idea that Satanism –more specific Laveyan- is some sort of 'Alpha and Omega', a closed source of all, that can't be changed, is almost bordering on a religious need to have one sole Truth. Satanism is fragmented and only a partial form of the LHP. The Satanic Bible, which in your proposed perception becomes all too much a bible, is a combination of certain aspects of satanic lore, mixed with parts of philosophies. Satan is complex and it is not because Lavey took the aspects that jived well with his idea, that taking other aspects is blasphemous or wrong. Else you are suggesting that Lavey should have some divine status and that his word is law. Satanism can't be dogma but this does not imply Satanism can be all. Of course the basic principles are simple but it also not imply that one can't expand upon those principles or add and subtract when needed. We are an evolving man and when man evolves, everything evolves.
You claim others are doing nothing but adding personal views, kindly forgetting that is identical to what Lavey was doing. He hardly invented the hot water and he certainly didn't write the Book of All. Upholding this idea brings you closer to the Nazarene culture than you –at this moment- can imagine.
And things are not always as they appear, something too easily forgotten. It is not because we interpret things as something, that they are what we consider them to be. Intention does not need to equal promotion.

Another aspect of Satan is being the opposer and how can an opposer live by a fixed doctrine? Change requires destruction and neither can be triggered by an everlasting awe. It is a necessity to at times criticize, change or destroy the very foundations your life and thinking is based upon, even if it implies switching from rationality to irrationality or vice versa. Satanism is multi-faceted with only one constant and that is the "I".
If I look into the mirror, I see Satan. All else is –or should be- a construction of Will. My Will.

D.

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#22811 - 04/02/09 07:36 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
You make a good point. I guess, being a practitioner of primarily LaVeyan Satanism, coupled with the fact that I have had little connection with other Satanists, means that I have a narrow range of perspective when it comes to Satanism on the whole. However, I do not presume to say that LaVeyan Satanism comprises the whole of the LHP. Again, I feel that I may have made my point unclear in previous posts. Where I said "Satanism", perhaps "LaVeyan Satanism" would be a more appropriate term. In a LaVeyan-based philosophy, there is not much room for modification of the basics, though there is always room for new ideas.

I think though, when it comes to the whole of Satanism, and to the entire LHP beyond that, there is infinite room for modification and innovation. I merely meant that you cannot rewrite the existing "traditions" or philosophies, if you will, of Satanism (Particularly one such as that laid down by LaVey). In order to maintain the value of Satanism in general, one must always be able to find out what works for them, specifically, and add to it when necessary. Satanism, as a whole, cannot be defined by one particular philosophy or dogma, lest it perish.

And again, while I consider the basis of LaVeyan Satanism to be set, and I see no need for the SB to be rewritten, it is always open to reinterpretation by the individual, and there is nothing wrong with expanding upon what already exists.

Now that I think about it, I only agree with Dmitri in the sense that I agree that the foundation cannot be changed, rather than that new ideas cannot be contributed.

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#22816 - 04/02/09 08:29 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I agree with Dimitri, in a sense.

All too commonly we see people trying to add to Satanism, or take it in a new direction, or modify it in some way. Satanism to these people is a 'springboard' to other philosophy, a stepping stone to something 'else'.

My question to these people is, if you reject the baseline tenets of what Satanism is then why even use the label? It seems to me a desperate attempt to be something you aren't.

Satanism can't grow or change, because 'Satanism' is a description. Satanist is a description.

Satanism isn't a movement, or a cause to rally around, but rather a way of thinking and acting. What LaVey was doing in TSB was describing a type of person.

You can not 'become' this type of person, you either are or you aren't. You either resonate with the description given in TSB or you do not, and this acts as a filter.

'Born, not made'

So from this perspective trying to add to or take away from this 'description' is really only trying to fit yourself into a box that isn't your size. The Satanist learns, grows, introspects and grows in personal power, but Satanism itself remains the same.
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#22822 - 04/02/09 08:48 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Please to give to Mr. Dan Dread a Cigar. No, no my friend, not one of those cheap cigars from the humidor where they have been for two years. Please to give him one of the Cohibas from under the counter where they have been rolled on the thigh of a Cuban virgin... rare in itself... and soaked in the essence of Satan for seventeen days,
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#22825 - 04/02/09 09:03 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I agree absolutely that you can't change the foundation of Satanism and still call it Satanism. You can't change what it is. But does that necessarily mean that you can't add anything to it?

I mean, yes, Satanist is a description. Satanists are born, not made. And you can't change the description, but I think that beyond the absolute essence of what a Satanist is, you can contribute knowledge and opinion to Satanism as a whole.

What really gets me, though, are groups that claim to be the "one true form" of LaVeyan Satanism, and yet they say that LaVey was wrong about this, that, or the other thing...


Edited by cheryablinsk70 (04/02/09 09:09 PM)

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#22827 - 04/02/09 09:12 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3935
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Jake,

I'll take that cigar. MMM Satany-goodness.

Chery,

The answer to your question is already given in my preceding post. Satanism either describes you or it doesn't.
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ADM
ideological vandal

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#22829 - 04/02/09 09:26 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
Maybe today's just not my day for explaining myself clearly. TSB explains what Satanism is. It fits you or it doesn't. That's the truth. To the letter.

What I'm saying is more that though TSB clearly states what it means to be a Satanist, I don't feel that it is the be-all and end-all of Satanic thought and ritual.

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#22830 - 04/02/09 09:39 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Chery, maybe you just need to stop typing and take a break. There's no requirement that says you have to contribute to, or reply to every single new post that's made, which is what you've done since you joined.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#22831 - 04/02/09 09:44 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
It is not that you are not explaining yourself clearly, it is that you fail to understand what is being said. Here is, perhaps, a simpler analogy:

If one were to take a good 30-year-old scotch and add disproportionate amounts of water to it, is it still a good 30-year-old scotch? The end result is dilution and ruination.

Most attempts to "add a little something" to Satanism have resulted in an unacceptable watering down of the true essence of what Satanism is. We are each our own little glass of scotch; do we choose to allow ourselves to be diluted, or do we choose to place a hand over our glass to keep our essence intact?

Satanism is not like science, wherein room for discovery is virtually limitless. The only discovery in Satanism is what one discovers within him or herself (and, perhaps, one's relationships/interaction with other people after such introspection). It is your own depths which need probing, with the precepts in the Satanic Bible as your guide. Contributing to the self is contributing to Satanism.


Edited by Draculesti (04/02/09 10:41 PM)
Edit Reason: New Stuff!!!
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#22833 - 04/02/09 10:02 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Draculesti]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
Nemesis, you might be right.

Perhaps also I should heed the saying, "Discretion is the better part of valor". Thanks for your advice.

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#22835 - 04/02/09 10:14 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It would be appreciated. Being a newb, your mind should be as a sponge, grasshopper. Listen, think up some questions, do some research, and if you cannot find the answers on your own via the vast database that is Google, then you may ask.

There is also a Search function on the site, to see if there have been any threads on topics you may need answers to.
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Nothing is sacred.

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