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#22788 - 04/02/09 03:29 PM About "contributing to Satanism".
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
About contributing to Satanism:

Many times I have seen, heard and witnessed people who are trying to "contribute something to Satanism". People started their own "organisations", churches, cults, sects, covens, grotto's,..
But every time such people tried to contribute "something" they stayed on a same level. Neverless how great their group was, somehow they didn't get renowned like Lavey,Aquino,Zeena,..

The plain fact these people didn't get renowned or known to the public is the plain fact you simply CAN'T contribute something to Satanism (in the sense of adding more value, new ideas,..).
Why can't someone contribute to Satanism? Because the philosophy on it's own is simply enough. Lavey and other important persons within Satanism have led the foundations of the philosophy. Anyone trying to add new ideas or "guidelines" are simply showing parts of their own personal views. They simply can't change the primary foundations.

What these people CAN do is discussing and sharing their views/opinions about the guidelines written in the SB. Within Satanism everything turns around your own individual well-being. You for yourself can interpret and associate own experiences from what you have read in the SB and related works.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Last little topic I post before going on vacation tomorrow.
Cya guys within 2 weeks ;\)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#22791 - 04/02/09 03:36 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I agree with you there. The foundations set in the Satanic Bible and related works seem to be pretty complete to me. There are also already plenty of Satanic groups out there already. In my humble opinion, the best way to contribute to Satanism is to encourage intelligent discussion, and to analyze what has already been laid out by LaVey and others.
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#22795 - 04/02/09 04:08 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Dimitri
you simply CAN'T contribute something to Satanism (in the sense of adding more value, new ideas,..


I think that is a pretty closed minded and ignorant statement to make. There is always room for new ideas in everything. If you think TSB is endgame for Satanic thought and philosophy you are mistaken.

The only way we (as a species) can advance is being open to new ideas/concepts. Could you imagine what things would be like if people applied the "good enough" statement to other things?

To me, Satanism is not about just being "good enough" but striving to be the best and constantly looking for ways to make improvements to yourself in all possible areas. Just because you feel like no one has added anything worth value doesn't mean there is no room for improvement at all.
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No gods. No masters.

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#22798 - 04/02/09 04:31 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
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Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I should probably rephrase my previous statement. What I meant (though I don't know if I speak for the OP) is that I feel there is no real way to contribute to the *foundations* of Satanism. There is definitely room for new ideas, but I don't think, personally, that the "canon" needs revision at present.

Don't get me wrong, though. I think that it's not only possible, but necessary, to come up with new ideas about Satanic philosophy and ritual, and to discuss new interpretations of what already exists.

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#22804 - 04/02/09 05:12 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Let me first start with saying that your look upon things is a bit naive. It is not because people don't become as "famous" –which is an extremely relative value; you're only famous to the people that know you, which could be no more than four - as Lavey or Aquino, that they fail in what they do or should be considered as less. Not everything that happens out there in Satanism or under the label of Satanism is triggered by a need for fame and glory. At times Will is not bothered by instant recognition and Will does things solely because of Will.

Your idea that Satanism –more specific Laveyan- is some sort of 'Alpha and Omega', a closed source of all, that can't be changed, is almost bordering on a religious need to have one sole Truth. Satanism is fragmented and only a partial form of the LHP. The Satanic Bible, which in your proposed perception becomes all too much a bible, is a combination of certain aspects of satanic lore, mixed with parts of philosophies. Satan is complex and it is not because Lavey took the aspects that jived well with his idea, that taking other aspects is blasphemous or wrong. Else you are suggesting that Lavey should have some divine status and that his word is law. Satanism can't be dogma but this does not imply Satanism can be all. Of course the basic principles are simple but it also not imply that one can't expand upon those principles or add and subtract when needed. We are an evolving man and when man evolves, everything evolves.
You claim others are doing nothing but adding personal views, kindly forgetting that is identical to what Lavey was doing. He hardly invented the hot water and he certainly didn't write the Book of All. Upholding this idea brings you closer to the Nazarene culture than you –at this moment- can imagine.
And things are not always as they appear, something too easily forgotten. It is not because we interpret things as something, that they are what we consider them to be. Intention does not need to equal promotion.

Another aspect of Satan is being the opposer and how can an opposer live by a fixed doctrine? Change requires destruction and neither can be triggered by an everlasting awe. It is a necessity to at times criticize, change or destroy the very foundations your life and thinking is based upon, even if it implies switching from rationality to irrationality or vice versa. Satanism is multi-faceted with only one constant and that is the "I".
If I look into the mirror, I see Satan. All else is –or should be- a construction of Will. My Will.

D.

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#22811 - 04/02/09 07:36 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
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Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
You make a good point. I guess, being a practitioner of primarily LaVeyan Satanism, coupled with the fact that I have had little connection with other Satanists, means that I have a narrow range of perspective when it comes to Satanism on the whole. However, I do not presume to say that LaVeyan Satanism comprises the whole of the LHP. Again, I feel that I may have made my point unclear in previous posts. Where I said "Satanism", perhaps "LaVeyan Satanism" would be a more appropriate term. In a LaVeyan-based philosophy, there is not much room for modification of the basics, though there is always room for new ideas.

I think though, when it comes to the whole of Satanism, and to the entire LHP beyond that, there is infinite room for modification and innovation. I merely meant that you cannot rewrite the existing "traditions" or philosophies, if you will, of Satanism (Particularly one such as that laid down by LaVey). In order to maintain the value of Satanism in general, one must always be able to find out what works for them, specifically, and add to it when necessary. Satanism, as a whole, cannot be defined by one particular philosophy or dogma, lest it perish.

And again, while I consider the basis of LaVeyan Satanism to be set, and I see no need for the SB to be rewritten, it is always open to reinterpretation by the individual, and there is nothing wrong with expanding upon what already exists.

Now that I think about it, I only agree with Dmitri in the sense that I agree that the foundation cannot be changed, rather than that new ideas cannot be contributed.

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#22816 - 04/02/09 08:29 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I agree with Dimitri, in a sense.

All too commonly we see people trying to add to Satanism, or take it in a new direction, or modify it in some way. Satanism to these people is a 'springboard' to other philosophy, a stepping stone to something 'else'.

My question to these people is, if you reject the baseline tenets of what Satanism is then why even use the label? It seems to me a desperate attempt to be something you aren't.

Satanism can't grow or change, because 'Satanism' is a description. Satanist is a description.

Satanism isn't a movement, or a cause to rally around, but rather a way of thinking and acting. What LaVey was doing in TSB was describing a type of person.

You can not 'become' this type of person, you either are or you aren't. You either resonate with the description given in TSB or you do not, and this acts as a filter.

'Born, not made'

So from this perspective trying to add to or take away from this 'description' is really only trying to fit yourself into a box that isn't your size. The Satanist learns, grows, introspects and grows in personal power, but Satanism itself remains the same.
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#22822 - 04/02/09 08:48 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Please to give to Mr. Dan Dread a Cigar. No, no my friend, not one of those cheap cigars from the humidor where they have been for two years. Please to give him one of the Cohibas from under the counter where they have been rolled on the thigh of a Cuban virgin... rare in itself... and soaked in the essence of Satan for seventeen days,
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#22825 - 04/02/09 09:03 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
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Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
I agree absolutely that you can't change the foundation of Satanism and still call it Satanism. You can't change what it is. But does that necessarily mean that you can't add anything to it?

I mean, yes, Satanist is a description. Satanists are born, not made. And you can't change the description, but I think that beyond the absolute essence of what a Satanist is, you can contribute knowledge and opinion to Satanism as a whole.

What really gets me, though, are groups that claim to be the "one true form" of LaVeyan Satanism, and yet they say that LaVey was wrong about this, that, or the other thing...


Edited by cheryablinsk70 (04/02/09 09:09 PM)

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#22827 - 04/02/09 09:12 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Jake,

I'll take that cigar. MMM Satany-goodness.

Chery,

The answer to your question is already given in my preceding post. Satanism either describes you or it doesn't.
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#22829 - 04/02/09 09:26 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
Maybe today's just not my day for explaining myself clearly. TSB explains what Satanism is. It fits you or it doesn't. That's the truth. To the letter.

What I'm saying is more that though TSB clearly states what it means to be a Satanist, I don't feel that it is the be-all and end-all of Satanic thought and ritual.

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#22830 - 04/02/09 09:39 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Chery, maybe you just need to stop typing and take a break. There's no requirement that says you have to contribute to, or reply to every single new post that's made, which is what you've done since you joined.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#22831 - 04/02/09 09:44 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
It is not that you are not explaining yourself clearly, it is that you fail to understand what is being said. Here is, perhaps, a simpler analogy:

If one were to take a good 30-year-old scotch and add disproportionate amounts of water to it, is it still a good 30-year-old scotch? The end result is dilution and ruination.

Most attempts to "add a little something" to Satanism have resulted in an unacceptable watering down of the true essence of what Satanism is. We are each our own little glass of scotch; do we choose to allow ourselves to be diluted, or do we choose to place a hand over our glass to keep our essence intact?

Satanism is not like science, wherein room for discovery is virtually limitless. The only discovery in Satanism is what one discovers within him or herself (and, perhaps, one's relationships/interaction with other people after such introspection). It is your own depths which need probing, with the precepts in the Satanic Bible as your guide. Contributing to the self is contributing to Satanism.


Edited by Draculesti (04/02/09 10:41 PM)
Edit Reason: New Stuff!!!
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#22833 - 04/02/09 10:02 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Draculesti]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
Nemesis, you might be right.

Perhaps also I should heed the saying, "Discretion is the better part of valor". Thanks for your advice.

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#22835 - 04/02/09 10:14 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: cheryablinsk70]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
It would be appreciated. Being a newb, your mind should be as a sponge, grasshopper. Listen, think up some questions, do some research, and if you cannot find the answers on your own via the vast database that is Google, then you may ask.

There is also a Search function on the site, to see if there have been any threads on topics you may need answers to.
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Nothing is sacred.

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#22853 - 04/03/09 06:28 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Fabiano Offline
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Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Hi,

It's a while I didn't post here. Why ?

Because I think I got most of what I needed here and I now want to live what I understood.

I'm alike in an integration phase where I integrate the (new) ideas I understood here.

I'm less and less "claiming" my Satanism and more and more living it, openly and publicly

As a result of this integration, I'm just expressing my ideas without explicitly saying it’s Satanism.

I had a chat with a 70 year old person, the conversation shifted to religion but I didn't mention once the word "Satanism".
At the end of the conversation, she concluded "We have a big problem with our religion". I smiled interiorly, I don't have a problem with my religion \:\)

Then, I came across a women, very opened minded but also very “hippy / new age”. As she was opened minded enough, I didn’t hide I was a Satanist.
I know I’m a kind of enigma for her, as my behavior is not aligned with the cliché she could have about Satanism.
She sent me a “letter from Mikaël”. I asked her why I should believe more in this than in Jediism.
I’m waiting her to find a proper answer…

So to me, my contribution to Satanism is just about spreading its memes, insidiously...

Hail Satan !

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#22861 - 04/03/09 05:05 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Nemesis]
godganesa Offline
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Registered: 03/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Marin County, California
I think associating Satan with Jesus Christ as his God could do wonders for Satanism. Then all Christians would be Satanists.
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#22864 - 04/03/09 06:54 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: godganesa]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Then what the hell would WE be? Christians? For fuck's sake man....

Some musings should be kept to oneself.

How'd the Mark Twain quip go?
"It is better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are a fool than to open it and remove all doubt"
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Nothing is sacred.

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#22897 - 04/04/09 10:44 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
The problem with Satanism being a description is that the description isn't a mathematical formula but a definition of parameters, at times vague. And some parameters that are serious stuff to some, are laughable to others. Many do think Lavey described the ultimate parameters for a Satanist –check the CoS- and think that if one is 100% aligned with the SB, one by definition is a Satanist. I'd say no, one is a Laveyan, one believes to be a Laveyan or one pretends to be a Laveyan.

I do think that some parameters are open for interpretation; some can be interchanged with others and a couple are open for revision. The idea that this is all there is, is, in my opinion, some emotional filler for people hating religion but deep down missing it intensely. That's what I meant with the Nazarene culture. If Satanists are born, no made, which I subscribe to by the way, what the hell would those poor sods have done that are born before Lavey. Of course we can assume they were totally aligned with the description Lavey gave -aren't we lucky to have our own prophet too- but that would require an awful lot of faith. I think things are a little more complex and that a Satanist is a person that fits certain parameters but not necessarily all that another fits. Of course there are a lot of overlapping characteristics but Satanism isn't Dronism. This however does not imply Satanism can be Everythingism as a lot out there seem to think. There are a lot of ridiculous satanic groups or pretenders out there –and I include our proto-Satanists amongst them- that lack all too many parameters but still think they are the right stuff.

I do think that "merit" should be one of the key-principles in Satanism and needs a much bigger focus upon than the SB does. If merit is the priority, all else will fall into place. When focusing on it, one directly sees whom is, pretends to be or believes to be.

D.

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#22898 - 04/04/09 11:32 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I find the "merit" in the Satanic Statements 4, 5, & 6 and also in the fact that Satanism is about justice.

Rebellion, independance/individualism, materialism/epicurismn and rationalism are also key traits (IMHO)

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#22996 - 04/05/09 11:54 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Fabiano]
The Zebu Offline
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Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I don't agree with the original post for a number of reasons, but I do understand the rationale behind it.

LaVey is not the be-all and end-all of Satanism. He did a pretty good job of hitting the nail on the head, but if Satanism begins and ends with the Satanic Bible, what you have is something very limited in scope.

There is no need to "reinvent the wheel" as some groups attempt to do (ie, completely redefine Satanism into some weird pseudo-mystical paradigm), but the intellectual and artistic aspects of Satanism can be expounded on so much more- to a degree that the Satanic Bible doesn't even touch.

I tend to think of Satanism as a sort of philosophical "school" or artistic "current". LaVey was merely one of the many people drawing from this source.
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#23013 - 04/06/09 11:20 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
We are an evolving man and when man evolves, everything evolves.
You claim others are doing nothing but adding personal views, kindly forgetting that is identical to what Lavey was doing. He hardly invented the hot water and he certainly didn't write the Book of All. Upholding this idea brings you closer to the Nazarene culture than you –at this moment- can imagine.

Indeed when man evolves, his surroundings evolve altogether.. fact is, the genetic building blocks of man still remains the same, only it outward appearance is changing to fit his needs/survival. The rest stays the same...

You see, what I'm trying to get across here is that (as Dan pointed out) people who became "famous" (lack of better wording) for defining Satanism just did that.. defining. The evolution you speak of (sometimes good, sometimes bad) are nothing more then new or old books who can be associated with the term and the definition given by these people.

Also I said that the evolution can be good or bad. Bad in a way that people are learning about it and are trying to change the given definition so they fit in. I only have to think about the thousand of alternative Satanism groups worshipping satan as a being. They modified the definition so they can use the term and let it fit in into their lifestyle.
And this, most of the time, (the fact that changing the definition to fit in) makes some people think they are making a "contribution" while they are simply deluding their minds and changing the "make-up" to fit in.

IMO is Satanism a philosophy which is being lived.. not studied or observed from books, churches and so on.. Boards like these are good in a way that like-minded people share opinions, information and experiences. Nothing more. Real Satanism is being found on the "battlefield", reality where boys and girls seduce each other, people enjoy their food, smoke a cigar, have a foot massage.. and so on.

Contribution to Satanism is only possible by having a darn good time and not writing tons of bibles wherein is written what someone's view is on Satanism and passing it as a doctrine to other people.

Hope that clears a few things up,.. now returning to the Ardens to continue my "vacation" ;\)
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#23015 - 04/06/09 12:46 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
IMO is Satanism a philosophy which is being lived.. not studied or observed from books, churches and so on.. Boards like these are good in a way that like-minded people share opinions, information and experiences. Nothing more. Real Satanism is being found on the "battlefield", reality where boys and girls seduce each other, people enjoy their food, smoke a cigar, have a foot massage.. and so on.

Contribution to Satanism is only possible by having a darn good time and not writing tons of bibles wherein is written what someone's view is on satanism and passing it as a doctrine to other people.


I fully agree!

That's why I posted less since a while. And if I post here, it's mainly because it's part of my own enjoyement, and also for going through the "fire of scrutiny".

Oh yeah, and it's also my enjoyement to spread Satanism memes insidiously. My contribution to Satanism...

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#23017 - 04/06/09 02:36 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Fabiano]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
Alright, I guess I didn't understand what Dmitry meant originally (I suppose it's what I get for reading threads and posting when I should be sleeping). I agree wholeheartedly. Thanks for clarifying.
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#23018 - 04/06/09 02:45 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I tend to disagree. Your examples of having a good time and finding Satanism in it, is what is partly causing the degeneration of Satanism as a whole. Of course we do have a good time – at times- but besides that, Satanism is hard work too and not a too easy task. If having a good time was the only priority for Satanism, what actually differs us from others? Are we going to compare the happiness factor to identify who is a Satanist?

Hell no, if having a good time = Satanism, why not smoke pot, hold hands, sing Kumbaya and dance naked around the trees at sunrise. You see, these people are having a good time too and personal happiness means jack shit at times. Happiness is not the sole property of being a Satanist and claiming they can't be as happy because of factor x or y is deluding oneself. If one thinks he is happy or feels happy, one is happy. I know happy people from the "happy-clap" church and I sure as hell know they aren't Satanists. And yes, they fuck too, and smoke cigars, even have massages. And they smile an awful lot more than me.

Look out there at all those virtual satanic whatevers and you'll see that about all, besides some attempt in finding pussy or dick, adapt Satanism to what makes them happy. Happy being a synonym here for easy or whatever takes little effort. And yes, they are all living their Satanism too, which sure as hell isn't too hard because they downgrade it to their plebeian needs. Then look around and try to identify those that take Satanism to a higher level, or the level it should be. Those that demand –or manipulate- people in trying to get more out of themselves than they currently display or realize. Those that try to change things. Then you see who contributes and who degenerates.

If living Satanism is all it takes to be a Satanist, who is the sole source of knowledge on how to live it? We ourselves? Personally I would find that a pretty inane idea. If people where the sole source of knowledge they needed, humanity never invented schooling. Some of what is out there can be regarded as schooling into living Satanism, a theoretical database, in great diversity, out of which you take what you need, or lack.

That all is a contribution.

Having a chick suck my dick and liking it, doesn't require much merit at all. And if that makes me a Satanist, we are legion indeed.

D.

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#23020 - 04/06/09 04:49 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo


Having a chick suck my dick and liking it, doesn't require much merit at all. And if that makes me a Satanist, we are legion indeed.

D.


too bad this wont fit on a bumper sticker.


digest Diavolos entire post folks. there is an understanding of the essence of Satanism, earned the hard way, and he's giving it away for free.

you cannot simply adapt Satanism to fit ones own goals. other systems allow that, but Satanism requires much more.

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#23021 - 04/06/09 05:29 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Bacchae]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
Obviously degeneration is not Satanism. And I've seen enough people fucking their lives in having good time, being on drugs... for knowing for sure that it's nothing compared to Satanism.

I was like them, 20 years ago. In between I hard worked, made my career, questionned myself endlessly in order to better myself.

Recently, I divorced. A good thing !

So I want to remind that there is no merit without reward. This is also Satanism.

And if now I'm single, earning quite well my life, taking all my responsabilities at work and in my life, I do not see why I couldn't enjoy night clubs on friday and saturday nights. It's my right. Give the devil his due !

And if you have problem or feel guilty in being sucked by girls in nightclubs, there is room for improvement. ;\)

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#23024 - 04/06/09 06:57 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Nemesis]
DREX Offline
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Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 29
Loc: USA
I agree completly with dimitri and that one cannot add to the foundation, however those foundations are there to build upon and that is what a satinist is doing, constantly building on those basic ideas in TSB and similar books. All of us simply by being on this site and comparing ideas and beliefs of Satanism are in some way contributing
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#23038 - 04/06/09 10:34 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: DREX]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3888
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Originally Posted By: "Diavolo"

If living Satanism is all it takes to be a Satanist, who is the sole source of knowledge on how to live it?

Of course it is 'we,ourselves'. The Satanic Bible lays out the foundation of what a Satanist 'is', but from there it is really a matter of individual preference how one might choose to manifest their own autotheism. If you are a Satanist, you shouldn't need any external coaching on how to continue to be. You either already are or never will be.

 Originally Posted By: "Drex"

however those foundations are there to build upon and that is what a satinist is doing,


This is a theme I see again and again. As if Satanism is some sort of rudimentary set of building blocks to sculpt into your own personal fairy tale belief system. The 'Satanism can mean whatever I want it to mean' crowd have missed the mark dramatically.
And it is spelled 'Satanist' not 'satinist'. You should be ashamed of yourself for making such a lazy mistake in such a place. Or perhaps you are talking about an entirely different philosophy, (Perhaps some sort of fabric worship?) in which case feel free to 'build on it' as you see fit \:\)
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#23041 - 04/06/09 11:59 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Splore Offline
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Registered: 09/01/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Australia
It is very narrow minded to measure a persons worth simply by the amount of followers they have - surely a man who provides wisdom to 5 people is of no less importance than a man who provides wisdom to 1,000 people.

Was LaVey so successful because no-one else has contributed anything of worth, or because when LaVey stormed into the public eye, he was the only contender at the time to stake his claim on Satanism? In my opinion, LaVey’s rise to success has a lot to do with the simplicity of his work – it is not obscure, it is not difficult to digest, it is readily available to anyone and easily adopted into a persons life. A ‘simpler’ version of something will always attract more interest than that of something that requires a higher level of scope, understanding and commitment from the individual.

Why should LaVey be the ‘start all, end all’? Why should Satanism be restricted to extending from the ideas of only one man? Was he the one who breathed Satanism into conception? Hardly - LaVey was the first to bind his ideals into hard copy, the first to allow all members of society to revel in its splendor, but he was not the first to ‘live the life’. Did LaVey not do what you oppose? Did he not combine basic points, ideals, what have you, into a definable term that suited his own individual wants, needs and desires?
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#23045 - 04/07/09 01:17 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Splore]
cheryablinsk70 Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/01/09
Posts: 25
LaVey and his contemporaries basically codified and defined what Satanism is. There's nothing wrong with creating something from bits and pieces to fit your exact needs, but that doesn't make it Satanism.
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#23051 - 04/07/09 03:43 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
 Originally Posted By: Diavolo

Having a chick suck my dick and liking it, doesn't require much merit at all. And if that makes me a Satanist, we are legion indeed.


Ooooooooooo. That taught me something. Er, the whole post, not just the dick sucking part. Thank you. It seems obvious. I guess I knew it all along, but it's never come to the front of my mind in a way that lucid.

So where do you think the hard work lies? Self discipline?

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#23059 - 04/07/09 02:35 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: coelentrate]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I'm not going to state that self-discipline is an easy task, -which it isn't as can be observed out there- but self-discipline is easier than expected because it tunes in with your goals and rationale. In many cases we have self-discipline for a very valid and known reason. People drop or avoid unhealthy habits, work out, eat decent food because they prefer to live healthy and live longer. It's a bet on probabilities but still pretty rational. For the same reasons people get up every morning, go to work and try to excel in it. The goal being; either job continuation, promotion, paycheck improvement etc. All those things make self-discipline an easier task than expected. There is a potential reward, imagining it and striving for it requires less effort than expected.

What requires much more effort is self-confrontation. Not only is the outcome and payoff unknown, it also requires analyzing the self down to an atomic level. We all assume we have a pretty good idea who we are and what we are about but one could question if that really is the case. We grow as persons through experiences and knowledge and developed from a pretty petty state into what we are now. In my case I was a different person at 2, 12, 22, 32 and now at 42. About all my knowledge is borrowed, as we all do; I am not going to delude myself about that. But every one of my experiences is my own, even if I have been submitted to some unwillingly. And it is these experiences that told me more about my self than all the knowledge I gathered. The problem with knowledge and rationale is that, while being handy tools in certain circumstances, they are a hindrance in others. Your rationale can be as obstructive in your life as religion is in others because it can be as deluding and prevent you from having experiences that might learn you more about your self than you could ever read up upon or think about. The real question is if knowledge equals experience and if the answer is no, does knowledge not need the result of experience to be verified or falsified? And this is where self-confrontation comes into play. You confront yourself and due to it, learn to know yourself and what you are really capable of. And the hard part is that you have no idea what you are getting yourself into, if you are going to like or hate it. There is always a reward; self-knowledge but you will never know prior if it is going to be worth it.
And most important, you are completely on your own at it, there is nothing or none that can help.

D.

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#23490 - 04/19/09 12:38 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Diavolo]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
Hell no, if having a good time = Satanism, why not smoke pot, hold hands, sing Kumbaya and dance naked around the trees at sunrise.

I didn't say Satanism in it's whole perspective is having a good time.. Just a part of it.

 Quote:
If living Satanism is all it takes to be a Satanist, who is the sole source of knowledge on how to live it? We ourselves?

Sole source of knowledge is the experience you gather while living your life... so yeah, "we", you,...

 Quote:

Look out there at all those virtual satanic whatevers and you'll see that about all, besides some attempt in finding pussy or dick, adapt Satanism to what makes them happy. Happy being a synonym here for easy or whatever takes little effort. And yes, they are all living their Satanism too, which sure as hell isn't too hard because they downgrade it to their plebeian needs. Then look around and try to identify those that take Satanism to a higher level, or the level it should be. Those that demand –or manipulate- people in trying to get more out of themselves than they currently display or realize. Those that try to change things. Then you see who contributes and who degenerates.

I guess you can shorten it towards: "people who are opportunistic".What you stated here can be described as "Satanic contribution". But to me, you can also say they made THEIR LIFE more easier and contributed something towards their life.. Not mine.
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#24084 - 05/03/09 06:16 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Andrew Malchus Offline
Banned
stranger


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 24
All Anton LaVey or Dr. Michael Aquino have done are eclectic remanifestations of magical philosophies that have been around for thousands of years.

That being said, LaVey and Dr. Aquino are pioneers in that they did expand upon these already existing ideals and transformed them into a matrix for the Common Era. For that I thank them both.

/Andrew Malchus\
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Going to church makes you a christian and standing in a garage makes you a car.

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#27344 - 07/22/09 12:03 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
bluj666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 07/14/09
Posts: 38
Loc: Tennessee,USA
I would have to say in the way i see it there are a few reasons why none of the new Groups, sects or whatever get as much renown as LeVay and Aquino.

1. Its not that shocking anymore. When the Temple of Set and the CoS first were established it was new and unheard of. There was so much controversy and misinformation about it, that the idea of these esoteric practices and establishments comeing to be and that you actually had people who followed this and at that rate of exspansion was thrilling and at the same time scary.. ecspecially in those days.
These days... no one really cares anymore, not even the christian churches. Its been introduced and explained. the concept its new anymore

2. Yes, while it is good to have all these new philosophies about Satanism... however if you really look into it, none of them are really that new. They are the same practices and literature as the originals, but with slight tweeks. Take a look at the JOY ministries... as far as the Occult is concerned the sites a good reference. They aren't Owners original studies or practices but merely a combination or practices from pretty much everywhere. Maxines only claim to a new philosophy is that Satan and the demons are aliens, which isnt new... She more then likely took that inspiration from the necronomicon.
Id have to say, the most orginal theories ive seen lately are those of Micheal Ford and the ONA.

3.Another reason id say is the reason is because, now Satanism is considered a phase.. because most people that get into it when they are young move on to something else not too long after.
(ive seen this mostly with JoS members and Modern Satanist). So again most people just dont pay it as much mind as they used to.

Thats just how i see it though

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#27350 - 07/22/09 01:11 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: bluj666]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I mostly agree, although I would say that the JoS "ministries" is a poor reference for the occult, as far as genuine western esoteric tradition is concerned. Their "magick" consists mostly of new-agey guided meditation and visualization exercises, and similar "psychic warfare" delusions. Maxine Dietrich didn't get her ideas from the Simon Necronomicon (although it is a possible influence), rather, most of her ideas are parroted from Zechariah Sitchen's backwater UFO-theologies (who, by the way, is jewish... an ironic reality considering the JoS's rabid antisemitism.) I am thoroughly convinced she is mentally ill.

It is true that Satanism nowadays is regarded as a "phase", and is nowhere near as shocking as it was some 60 years ago when the first "Lords of the Left Hand Path" burst onto the scene. Furthermore, the history of modern Satanism is strewn with failed upstarts, defunct groups, and scores of people who just lose interest. Although, this is beneficial in the long run, since it cuts off all the dross. And ultimately, as we learn time and time again, it becomes plain that Satanism is a path of the individual.
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«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

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#28865 - 08/24/09 03:27 AM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: The Zebu]
godam666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/15/09
Posts: 23
Loc: indiana
It's funny how thing's end up. I was always against many religions, I just thought it was right to study them to understand the people involed in them for the are the majority of the world. During my research about 11 years ago I came across TSB. It is very strange that to have never of read it before that everything besides the rituals I was already doing. For regards to this aspects of this topic I will no longer derail this train.

I think that TSB is just a foundation and the rituals are housewarming decor as with the other philosophical books that followed. The house still has no walls or a roof. The siding and structure are us along with the workers. We hold it together making it stronger. I think there is still aways to go before it will ever be complete. For everyday we learn something that we didn't know before and they are the stone which we build our castle with. The evolution of men and learning are not yet over. We still have to build our house ! (horrible metaphors, I know, but hey thats how it came out and I don't really do any editing unless I want to make it concrete and this is just the wheelbarrel)

thanks for your time in reading this I hope I have gave you atleast another way of thinking about this topic.
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I am God

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#29042 - 08/29/09 01:17 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Master Magick Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 63
Loc: New York, USA
Those who publicly state they are "trying to..." do something and then fail to do that something have only done one thing. Failed.

This doesn't only apply to Satanism, but to use your example, it's not that you can't "contribute" anything to the mix, but that very few people have "The Right Stuff", knowledge or ability to contribute in the first place. There are people out there that have made contributions to Satanism and other efforts who you will never know, but didn't have to jump up and down and say "look at me, look what I did". If you are worthy of recognition, in most cases, you will be recognized. Of course the reverse is also true. Those who make a spectacle of themselves and don't have the tools to follow through are also often remembered, just in a different way ;\)

If you really, truly have something valuable that you want to "contribute" to Satanism or anything else for that matter, go for it. But if you are truly a Satanist, you will likely know beforehand your chances of success, and that will determine if you make the effort in the first place or go back to the drawing board before you fail.

 Quote:
People started their own "organisations", churches, cults, sects, covens, grotto's,..


These are a penny a dozen, just like most of the people who started them, just like every new business that opens and then closes the following year because the so called "entrepreneur" had a business plan. Just because you think something is cool or a good idea, doesn't mean you have something to contribute or that you should open a Carwash/Discotheque.
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Magick

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#29214 - 09/03/09 01:02 PM Re: About "contributing to Satanism". [Re: Dimitri]
Zorg Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/30/09
Posts: 44
Loc: A Galaxy Far, Far Away
I have a couple of thoughts on this.

There is no need to reinvent the wheel. Satanism is already an established religion. However, as each Satanist matures, they discover new ways to apply it. Just because I was born a Satanist does not mean I have consistently applied the philosophy. Hell...no one who knows me now would recognize me as a teenager, for example.

Second...I have come to find that The Satanic Bible is deceptively brief. Every time I read it, I find things I never noticed before. As I said...no need to reinvent the wheel. This one is large enough.


Edited by Zorg (09/03/09 01:03 PM)
Edit Reason: I tried to reinvent spelling.
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"The average person thinks he isn’t" Father Lorenzoni

"Plato was a bore."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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