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#2305 - 11/26/07 08:55 PM Recovery and Satanism. Can it work?
hellbent666
Unregistered



I was wondering what everyone thought about going to Narcotics Anonymous and the semi-religious undertones of the whole program. Is it possible to be a Satanist and still work some of these steps? For those of you that don't know the "Steps" here they are...
The 12 Suggested Steps of Narcotics Anonymous
1. We admitted we were powerless over drugs--that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

Now with all of that out of the way here's what I think. I agree with the latter half of step one. I agree with step number 4, 8, 9, and 10. The rest I'm having a really hard time with because it's basically not taking responsibility for your actions by trying to give it to some mythical god figure. They say that god can mean G.ood O.rderly D.irrection if you want or any other being higher than yourself. But I'm a LaVeyan Satanist! I don't believe in any form of a "Higher Power"! I enjoy the company of the people in these groups but I don't believe completely in their philosophy but I have to go! Part of my parole says I have to engage in these meetings. I consider myself to be a strong willful person that exacts change in my own life. I know the official stance of The CoS and they don't like drug addicts and I don't consider myself one, but these people in these meetings do. What do you guys think? Can I still make it work? Should I just tune out the stuff that I don't like?

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#2307 - 11/26/07 10:01 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
What do you guys think? Can I still make it work? Should I just tune out the stuff that I don't like?


When you are asking yourself whether or not you can make “it” work, are you referring to the completion of the guidelines this organization has set out, or just getting through the meetings because you are obligated to do so as a result of your current legal predicament?

It is an opinion shared among most Satanists and still disputed among some that the terms “Satanist” and “drug addict” don’t go hand in hand at all. There is a tremendous difference between that of the responsible, recreational mind-altering substance user and that of the drug addict. The latter shows a lack of strength, intelligence and self-respect which obviously is the exact opposite of what the Satanic mind would strive for. Some believe that addictive personalities are purely genetic. Personally I believe that in the end it is always a question of mind over matter.


 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
Is it possible to be a Satanist and still work some of these steps?


The obvious answer to that question is NO. The Satanist would not require such petty "feel good, heal yourself" mindless rhetoric in the first place, especially that which comes packaged in that of the modern day Christian conformist undertones. If you feel the need to be there because you have a problem with addiction to narcotics then the only “moral inventory of yourself” you should be doing would revolve around why you call yourself a Satanist in the first place. If you are there because you have to be for legal reasons and your presence there prevents your presence in jail, then it would merely be a question of drowning out the rightwing do-gooders for a brief period of time and finding something more productive to focus on.

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#2308 - 11/26/07 10:46 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
SSSnake Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/04/07
Posts: 79
Loc: PA. U.S.A.
\:\(
 Quote:
I was wondering what everyone thought about going to Narcotics Anonymous and the semi-religious undertones of the whole program.
Why do you care what others think?
 Quote:
Is it possible to be a Satanist and still work some of these steps?
probaly, but why would you want to?
 Quote:
Now with all of that out of the way here's what I think.
I agree with the latter half of step one. 1.
 Quote:
We admitted we were powerless over drugs--
that our lives had become unmanageable.


See that depends if or if not you have a drug problem. You admit your life is unmanageable but at the same time say that you have power over drugs. I think that you have to be completely honest with your self! To answer that question.


 Quote:
But I'm a LaVeyan Satanist! I don't believe in any form of a "Higher Power"! I enjoy the company of the people in these groups but I don't believe completely in their philosophy



Only you can answer these questions, no one else,,,,just look to yourself.

O by the way the skulls on your site are cool Just remember you got to answer step one first dude.


D.L.B.
_________________________
"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."

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#2310 - 11/27/07 01:48 AM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
I was wondering what everyone thought about going to Narcotics Anonymous and the semi-religious undertones of the whole program.

NA is simply one addiction to replace another… The game is to get you addicted to meetings…

 Quote:
Is it possible to be a Satanist and still work some of these steps?

Is it possible to be Satanist and truly need NA?

 Quote:
I enjoy the company of the people in these groups but I don't believe completely in their philosophy but I have to go! Part of my parole says I have to engage in these meetings.

What does the question matter you have no choice… Who cares what you believe in, it is now what you make them think you believe to get through your problem…

 Quote:
I consider myself to be a strong willful person that exacts change in my own life. I know the official stance of The CoS and they don't like drug addicts and I don't consider myself one, but these people in these meetings do.

Good… Who cares what the official stance of the CoS is? Are you planning on becoming a member? The NA members were all drug addicts themselves, they needed the brainwashing of NA to get where they are…

 Quote:
What do you guys think? Can I still make it work?

Depends on exactly what question you are asking here… Knowing you need to do this for parole are you asking can you do this to remain free? Or are you asking if you can do this and remain a Satanist?

In my honest opinion a year ago I would have told you that just for your having to ask us, relative strangers, you should rethink your title… While I can still be that hard I understand your confusion being forced to endure the brainwashing of NA, jail time, and major self-analysis…

If you are strong you should be able to play along and pay your time to again be able to walk free… If you make friends in rehab cool try to keep religion out of your friendship… Always remember you are being trained to substitute the meetings for your drug… First an addict then a member then a sponsor… Get the picture?

Remember this if you choose to make friends there… You should grow away from the meetings but they may just need the meeting itself and all the feel good get help from god rhetoric…

Remember there are other things a man can do to interact with people besides NA meetings to make friends…

Good luck man…

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (11/27/07 01:52 AM)
Edit Reason: Removed slang contraction, removed the dewey decimal and added a verb... ;)
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#2312 - 11/27/07 04:19 AM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Traversez589 Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 9
Loc: Minnesota
I have been to treatment twice since being a satanist. I no longer use Narcotics but I do drink weekly and much more responsibly . If I were you and was forced to go through each of the twelve steps I would take every part that says God and replace it with yourself or just delete it if needed. I personally have not gotten past the second step because I would use magic as a power greater than myself and would never tell anybody that I was a satanist because it would be counterproductive. I was also a heavy user for a period of a few years and the Steps or going to meetings just was not for me. Redirecting my energy to other more important things like money, music, knowledge and oh yes the ladies has helped me. That is what worked for me and is working and I am happy with who I am.

When you go to your meetings I would suggest staying out of the God talk and just listen to the stories and try to learn from them instead of focusing any attention to a God. They cannot make you say a prayer or hold hands and all of that mumbo jumbo. If you have to participate, they should not have very high expectations of you just go through it and get it over with unless you are wanting to actually use them. But by being a satanist you shouldn't need the help of a support group to overcome your habit especially if your will is strong.

On another note I just had a Chemical Dependency assesment today for legal issues and will not have to go to treament a third time because of my progress so it can be done and you are not alone. I am however looking at jail time .

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#2316 - 11/27/07 09:33 AM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: Traversez589]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
12 step programs are nothing but religious nutters trying to make people stop one addictions for the addiction of religion. The irritating and irrational and should not be made a sentence by the US courts as it currently is as all of them are religious, (separation of church and state people).

If you're addicted to Narcotics there is only one step that you need to quit.
1. Stop doing it!

Now, I never said it was easy but if you have self confidence and enough control you can do anything. 12 step programs are bullshit.
_________________________
If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#2317 - 11/27/07 10:05 AM Substance Abuse [Re: ]
Dakindas Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/20/07
Posts: 24
Loc: The Web
I assume this concerns smack, crack or serious amphetamine or alcohol abuse.

Anything less and my eyes will roll out of my skull as i puke blood.

Moving along,

Do you need NA to kick the habit?

The very fact that you acknowledge you have a problem is the first step to kicking the habit they say.

I tend to believe that.

You won't kick your habit if you don't think it's a problem.

If you do want to be rid of your dependency then do it!

My stance on almost everything is it's fine if you like it and abstain as much as you indulge but no good if you need it.

And if you've needed it once there's a good chance you'll need it again.

Not wise to travel that road.

As for this 'am i still a satanist if blah blah blah'

A satanist shouldn't be chasing labels, including 'satanic'.

Use it, the NA program, hopefully it will help you clean your shit up and get parole off your back. That they want to use former junkies as poster boys for their veiled missionary work should not concern you.

It's a temporary obligation and it might do you some good (i mean you might think so when all is done).

Gold from the dross.

I wouldn't try to inject satanic philosophy, staunch Atheism or anything else that will come across as 'difficult' or 'controversial' there. You'll only make them more determined to 'save' you and that means more head fucks for you.

You want the green tick not the red cross next to your name.

It's fun to play the accuser when you can simply up and leave but when the pigs are on your back and you're surrounded by white lighters you're only fucking yourself.

The problem is existential, subjective. Only you can rid yourself of a self inflicted ailment.

Good luck on kicking the shit anyway.

Heh, interesting logo, oblong square, black cube.

Surprise surprise.

Anyway, be strong.

PS: Personally i'm fucking disgusted that the program which is overtly religious is court ordered.

Think this tho, if you kick the habit or at least successfully jump through their hoops while making it known that you care bunk for God (while remaining pleasant and tolerant) you might, by your lack of dependency, without any odes to the Architect, show them up for pushing the soul save so hard.

Something i would think about after appraising the situation (having been to a few sessions at least). But my initial advice to 'not make waves' is still sound.

If you're committed, really, to getting over your addiction, then i would suggest you keep a diary (something they probably expect you to do anyway). I would even consider, personally, using this thread as my diary. That way you needn't worry about too much politically correct bullshit, you can be honest and those who bother to reply will either tend to be supportive and constructive or, if you tend to struggle or relapse, they might give you a helpful kick in the ass, junkie. ;\)

Heh, when you finish the sunday school program with flying colors you can tell the ring leaders that online satanists helped you get clean.

\:D

[edit]

I didn't read the other replies before posting. Seems i just expanded the advice and sentiments of the others.
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Qui Bono?

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#2318 - 11/27/07 10:42 AM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Bid Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/25/07
Posts: 25
Loc: Cardiff, UK
 Originally Posted By: hellbent666
Is it possible to be a Satanist and still work some of these steps?


Technically, no. You cannot be a Satanist and actually submit to their god or whatever. That would be changing your fundamental beliefs. However, there's nothing stopping you from pretending to follow the steps, as they can be seen as mere formalities. Do what you've got to do to make yourself look good on paper then get out of there.

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#2323 - 11/27/07 01:52 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: Bid]
hellbent666
Unregistered



Thanks guys. I was kinda looking for intellectual support from you guys and hoping I was making the right decision by staying out of the inner circle of addicts and their way of doing things. I'm trying to remain un-involved with their practice but at the same time doing enough for parole so they stay off my ass too. One of the stipulations of parole said I had to "obtain an NA/AA sponsor" and that makes me worried because I don't have anything in common with these people anymore. I have learned the art of self control and am very comfortable in my own skin. But you guys are right about the not telling everyone that I'm a Satanist thing because its totally detrimental. Those people would eat me alive! Awww you poor troubled, addicted soul you need the Lard! Dakindas, you are very right also about me turning to you guys because you are my peers. I connect with you guys on a much more personal level and I care about your opinions. But in all reality I'm going to NA just to get off "paper" and get on with my life. It just boils down to me listening to the experiences of these people and tuning out the rest. Thanks everyone!
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#2331 - 11/27/07 03:14 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
jesusbeater Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 79
Loc: Ireland
kind of reminds me of the south park episode "bloody Mary".
Are there any other forms of rehab in America.We're a bit behind the whole rehab thing here in Ireland but any of the programmes I've ever heard of here have little in common with the 12 step programme.It seems a bit outdated and it's obviously a way of recruiting vulnerable people at their lowest.
Are state run programmes similar?
I find this confusing as an outsider looking in as we are always given the image of state and religion being separate in America.I am aware of some hypocrisies evident in this , such as your Presidents references to the christian god and anti abortion legislate.
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crabpeople...crabpeople

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#2335 - 11/27/07 03:55 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Succubus666 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 161
If nothing else you can consider these meetings a first-hand sociological lesson in herd conformity. If you remove yourself from the role of being an active participant and simply observe the way these people interact with each other you may witness some interesting examples of how willing certain types of people are to sacrifice their individuality in order to gain the support or attention of the group. Being that you are in an environment with a high rate of people with addictive personalities who have already shown a predisposition to the sacrifice of their own free will, their willingness to submissively turn themselves over from substance addition to peer support addiction will certainly be an entertaining thing to observe. That is of course if you are interested in the natural unfolding of events which leads the lesser halves of society into making asses of themselves as a means to seek out order in their otherwise mindless existences.
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#2416 - 11/29/07 06:27 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
The 12 steps certainly doesn't work for everyone. May I ask what drug exactly? Not to pry, but to pm you with some alternative treatments to have a look at. 12 steps is largely guilt based, and guilt is very damaging. Also, if you take out the christian nonsense, there's really nothing left of it. Because that is the whole thing. Also, most of the 12 step preachers are ex addicts themselves, so it is all very subjective to the opinions and experiences of the (I'm not sure what to refer to the leaders of these programmes as. They aren't trained counsellors, are not taught therapeutic skills, and they are definitely not psychotherapists.) Oh my God, those rehab centres. Ugly and sparce, no wonder people get straight out of those places to relapse. theres nothing healing about the ones I've seen. (as a visitor, I've never actually been to rehab myself)

12 steps is also very negative in the way that you are never truly free to move on with your life, as they see you as a recovering addict until the day you die. I haven't used chemical drugs for 5 years now. I'm over it and that is that. However, the 12 steppers would say that I'm an addict who hasn't used for 5 years. See the difference?

To successfully break an addiction of ANY kind, the first thing you have to acknowledge is how and why it started in the first place, and assume personal responsibility for that addiction. This in itself can be quite a process; however, once it has been acknowledged you have already overcome the greatest challenge. And that is saying to yourself. Oops, I fucked up now I need to correct this. And move on.

Drug addiction is a chronic illness, and needs to be addressed as such. There is no general rule cure for the addict, it varies from one individual to another, as cancer or any other illness does. No one ever recovered by being made to feel guilty or by being judged or threatened. Recovery comes from being empowered, and creating change.

If you only partially agree with less than a third of the 12, then it would seem this isn't the one which is going to work for you. In fact, you would probably end up worse off.

Always remember, whether it's drug/alcohol abuse, overeating, whatever your poison; you're never going to be recovered in a week, because chances are these habits/addictions have developed over years of this behaviour. So it's quite unrealistic to think that it will be over with just like that and in one attempt. it takes time, guts and determination. And if you fall off the wagon, so what? Climb back on and give it another go . Check out as many options as you can and try every one of them till you find what resonates with you personally. When it is the right one for you, your instincts will tell you.

Good luck ;\)
_________________________
Too Many Idiots, not enough bullets

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#2418 - 11/29/07 06:42 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: Circus_Hell]
hellbent666
Unregistered



I heard of this thing called "Rational Recovery" that has nothing to do with the 12 step fellowships of current. I think I could totally find some useful shit there. I have no idea if they still have meetings but it's something I should look into. I have counseled myself into realizing what's more important to me, prison or drugs? Easy decision for me to make now. I have to go to these stupid meetings for now but that will only be for another 17 months. I gotta play their stupid game if I wanna live a normal, productive life. I can't let my pride get in the way of this if I want to stay out of the clink!
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#2419 - 11/29/07 07:21 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
Circus_Hell Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
So check it out \:\) check out every avenue you can. when it comes to pride or prison? 17 months of weekly meetings to shut them up is a lot better than being in gaol. By 30 all of this will be nothing more than a faded and distant memory. \:\)
_________________________
Too Many Idiots, not enough bullets

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#2421 - 11/29/07 08:24 PM Re: Recovery and Satanism. Can it work? [Re: ]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
When I got my dui almost 10 years ago, I had to attend AA meetings. I came away from the first one feeling like I had just sat through a tent revival meeting. I don't think it is possible for a satanist to attend these types of meetings and get anything out of it. When I was sentenced, I was given 2 choices. Attend 4 mandatory AA meetings, or find a suitable alternative. Unfortunetly, there were no "suitable" alternatives available besides checking into a treatment center. It was as if they showed me two doors. One that was wide open and one that was locked with no key available. It was easy enough for me to do the 4 meetings. I didn't have to participate. I didn't have to share. I only had to fill a seat for one hour and have someone running the show sign my sheet.

You mentioned Rational Recovery. I don't think they are around anymore. I believe they have had some structure changes and now go by a different name and different structure. Last I heard, they still maintained a structure more in line with something a satanist could benefit from. Problem is, I don't think they meet the "suitable" requirement of the law. They were available for me back then, but didn't make the "suitable" list.
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