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#23138 - 04/09/09 05:57 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Lucius600 Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/29/09
Posts: 28
Loc: USA
There are as many different kinds of satanists as there are people,but there are some common denominators all satanists adhere to.However I was primarily speaking of a Modern a/or LaVeyan satanist as president.This is exactly why I want a separation of church and state,because belief/unbelief,non-belief systems are all individual,especially among satanists.I am just tired of having to listen to america referred to as a 'christian nation' over and over again.Religion, of any sort, has no business running government as far as I'm concerned.Of course when has there ever been a society that hasn't been influenced by,or even administered by the clergy?
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#23149 - 04/10/09 01:51 AM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Lucius600]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Why any Satanist would want to see a Satanist as president is beyond me. For starters, anyone who makes it that far in politics, regardless of their religion, knows how to play the game. The overwhelming majority of people in north america subscribe to the 'one god' meme and to separate from that is to put oneself at a disadvantage.

No successful politician, much less a Satanist, would ever do that.

Also, the 'Satanic platform, which would probably include moves towards meritocracy and eugenics, would never fly in a mob rule system like democracy. The Satanic state would necessarily be a dictatorship or a laissez fair anarchy. In the second instance no leader would be possible, in the first none would be wanted.

What exactly is appealing about this idea?
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#23156 - 04/10/09 12:46 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
What exactly is appealing about this idea?


The problem with eugenics, which I'm sure has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, is that while it seems like a good idea, it is, in reality, a flawed one. The world needs, in order to function, those who, according to the negative side of eugenics, are undesirable for breeding. The elite, in effect, stand on the shoulders of these "undesirables" in their lofty positions. These people serve a vital purpose. Of course, on the other hand, there is the issue of overpopulation. Might it not be better to limit their numbers rather than weed them out altogether?

A meritocracy would not work either for, where would those who abuse systems like welfare and disability be left? The millions with their hands out would effectively be shit out of luck. And we can't have that, now can we? ;\)

As for dictatorship and laissez faire, you only have to look at history to see how well they worked. For instance, the lack of government oversight in Wall Street is one of the factors in the current economic crisis.

There is already an established order of things. A Satanist as president would most likely result in upheaval on a grand scale.
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#23158 - 04/10/09 01:09 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Draculesti]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
On Eugenics:
I don't see that as a problem. Although the lowest levels would be bred out by eugenics, so too would the highest levels increase. All in all the divide between bottom and top would probably stay roughly the same. The difference is that the lower level things would be done with greater proficiency, and the higher level advances would come more quickly.
I still think eugenics is a really good idea.

On Meritocracy:
Fuck the parasites, let them die. That is, unless people VOLUNTARILY want to take THEIR OWN resources and devote them to those unwilling or unable to carry their own weight. As most of these people on the bottom level do have family and friends, it would probably not be as much of a genocide by neglect as one might imagine. Historically private charities have always done better than mandated ones anyhow.

On Dictatorship vs Democracy:
Democracy is no more than mob rule.A man is pretty much always smarter than a mob.

On Anarcho-capitalism:
It has never really been 'tried' free of top down government interference. There are scores of economists that subscribe to the Austrian school that believe it to be perfectly workable. I personally see it as the next logical step past democracy.

And on a Satanist president:

If he was really a Satanist, you would probably never know it. Martyr mentality isn't a popular idea within this line of philosophy! \:\)
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#23162 - 04/10/09 01:49 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
Most of these things are ideals. Great in theory, not so great in practice.

 Quote:
On Eugenics:
I don't see that as a problem. Although the lowest levels would be bred out by eugenics, so too would the highest levels increase. All in all the divide between bottom and top would probably stay roughly the same. The difference is that the lower level things would be done with greater proficiency, and the higher level advances would come more quickly.
I still think eugenics is a really good idea.


I don't necessarily disagree. The only problem in the scenario is that while the lower-level things may be done with greater proficiency, the lower-level persons who would normally be in that position would be replaced by those of, ideally, greater skill and intellect. If you had the intellectual capacity to be a physicist, would you rather be stuck being the janitor of the laboratory facility? Remember, there are jobs that need to be done that are, for lack of a better term, undesirable for those who qualify for something greater.

 Quote:
On Meritocracy:
Fuck the parasites, let them die. That is, unless people VOLUNTARILY want to take THEIR OWN resources and devote them to those unwilling or unable to carry their own weight. As most of these people on the bottom level do have family and friends, it would probably not be as much of a genocide by neglect as one might imagine. Historically private charities have always done better than mandated ones anyhow.


I am in complete agreement with you here. However, under the current system, this would never be allowed to happen.

 Quote:
On Dictatorship vs Democracy:
Democracy is no more than mob rule.A man is pretty much always smarter than a mob.
Because a mob more or less works with a hive mind. Would you entrust your life and all that it is comprised of to one man alone (other than yourself, of course), no matter how great his intellect?

A dictatorship is unworkable. A dictatorship is based on fear; keep the people in line by crushing dissent, normally through genocide (look at Stalin's regime). Granted, in the case of the Soviet Union, it took 80+ years to oust communism, but Stalin's dictatorship effectively ended at his death in 1953. Man does not live forever, so he would have to be replaced by another autocrat. Unfortunately, shifts in power of that degree are never smooth.

In order to quell every last possible shred of dissent, it would require genocide on a massive scale. Who, then, would there be left to rule over? A king needs subjects, else he is king of nothing.

You could also try eugenics, but as the lower caste is weeded out a dictator's position would become all the more precarious. It is harder to convince the elite of the necessity of a dictatorship ;\)
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#23164 - 04/10/09 03:28 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Draculesti]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3813
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Remember, there are jobs that need to be done that are, for lack of a better term, undesirable for those who qualify for something greater.

Well, at this point it becomes a market situation. If you feel you are too smart to be mopping up shit, compete more fiercely for that desired job.

I guess you could look at it as a 'poor me' situation for all the potential molecular biologists pushing brooms, but I would look at the actual work being done in the field of molecular biology by those uberminds that actually COULD qualify for those positions and smile as humanity rocketed along into the technological future. I don't really think you are taking into account the level of complete incompetence that already exists at all levels of society.

 Quote:

I am in complete agreement with you here. However, under the current system, this would never be allowed to happen.

Current rarely translates into permanent. Change is always a looming possibility. Change is invariably preceded by talk, and the free exchange of ideas.

 Quote:

Because a mob more or less works with a hive mind

Well, not really. A hive works for the benefit of the entire hive, where a top down government, whether it be a dictatorship or a democracy functions only to serve the needs of those that control it. In this a dictatorship and a democracy are essentially the same.
 Quote:

Would you entrust your life and all that it is comprised of to one man alone (other than yourself, of course), no matter how great his intellect?

No. Nor would I entrust it to a 51% majority of people that are largely told what to believe by their shadowy overlords.

 Quote:

It is harder to convince the elite of the necessity of a dictatorship ;\)

You think so? I look around and see the overwhelming majority of my fellow humans accepting that we need our masters or society will crumble away. Call them 'dictators, or 'elected representatives, it really makes no difference as no man can represent any but himself and those like him when it comes right down to it. The bush era pretty much tore away the facade of 'freedom', yet the system keeps plodding on fully supported by the majority.

Did you know Saddam Hussein had a higher approval rating than george bush before iraq was invaded by the USA? Something to ponder.

The 'elite' are ALREADY convinced.
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#23202 - 04/11/09 09:59 AM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree with Dan here about convincing the elite. When looking at Nazi Germany, most people think it was a bottom up movement where Hitler and his crew got the approval of the people first and in that could lead the country into the Empire they desired. But it was actually a top-down movement where the rich and noble were the first to be swayed into Nazism. Without the support of power, status and cash, you seldom get somewhere. And dictatorship is naturally aligned with elitism to begin with.

In my opinion, Satanism is naturally in touch with totalitarianism. I skip the anarchistic option for a moment because currently it is not as practical as the others. What other option does one have to support? Either there is some sort of democracy which gives the power -illusionary or not- to the majority, which we by definition consider as incapable, or one takes away this power and puts it back into the hands where it belongs; the elite. Many feel some aversion against that idea because as satanist we consider ourselves to be the leaders but contrary to what many dream about, we are nothing but the leaders of our lives. If we'd be the leaders of other lives, we'd be leading right now. We don't because we don't have the interest or don't have the potential. It's maybe a strange thing to say about a species that considers themselves elite but one has to know the Self and know its strengths and limitations. I for one, am not a biologist as much as I am not a politician. So at that level, I can't do else but support people that are more capable in it than me. That's why I prefer top-biologists and not, as is now, someone barely making it into that field. The same goes for politics. I'm a Statist -as things are now- even a supporter of Empire and while some might have the simplistic idea that it makes me a follower, it is nothing but preferring to have the most effective system or people there where I am not effective.

D.

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#23291 - 04/13/09 12:01 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Diavolo]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
So this guy got me checking out the SoS (Sinagogue of Satan) -and yes S.O.S. is so appropriate, a distress call indeed- and it's founder and while at it, I encountered this gem:



D.

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#23292 - 04/13/09 01:58 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
I liked his closing statement, but his shaking hand and hippie agenda ruined it all.
sigh.
another satanic high priest. more delusions of grandeur...

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#23293 - 04/13/09 02:00 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: Diavolo]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut

This has been discussed here briefly before the video forum was added… As this was written by a one post wonder, I guess a major part of his campaign was to drop links on Satanic forums… http://www.the600club.com/topic1221-1.html

I took this as parody when I saw this in 2007… Now that I look at it I guess he was serious… He might be a really cool guy but he does not seem to be firmly grounded in reality… Anyone that thinks ok a “hippy” like this might change things for the better, is simply forgetting the true selfish nature of man…

The hats cool, but the sash and leather crotch protector, must be a west coast thing… An Illuminati badge even?

~T~


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#23294 - 04/13/09 02:08 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: ta2zz]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Thanks for the vid. It makes it even look more surreal tagged together with Satanism. I wondered if the other video was maybe a joke or something but after reading the main part on the SoS site, things seemed to fit. They tend to have this "you're all cool and special as you are" attitude, very 60ies if you ask me.

It's not that I'm a purist when it comes to Satanism but at times it is a step too far. Make that a light-year in this case.

D.

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#23295 - 04/13/09 02:16 PM Re: Barack Obama Satanist! [Re: ta2zz]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well... aside from the asymetrical beard, the hippie dippy agenda, the hat that's a Jake's hat wannabe and ain't quite making it, the crotch protector, the cheesy delivery like a Bartles and Jaymes wine cooler commercial, the whole Sinagogue of Satan (because they wanted to have Sin in the name), the ability to set up a videocam on a tripod and read from a paper and, well, I think the guy stole my last FUDGICLE outta the fridge... he's at least as entertaining as 9/10 of the Democratic party.

Andy Warhol was right, but I think he allotted too much time with 15 minutes.
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