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#23165 - 04/10/09 03:38 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: fakepropht]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3812
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Exactly FP!


You can throw a saddle on the old gray mare, but no matter how nice that saddle is; she will never win the Kentucky derby.
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#23186 - 04/10/09 11:28 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: Dan_Dread]
EwanCS Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Glasgow, UK
Well...it is a good question, for other folk, but at the end of the day, it has no baring on myself how others are percieved outside my own wee bubble. Or how others look upon myself. But, if I must throw my own hat in (which I must, being as drunk as I am,) I have no fucking clue where I stand within the narrow deffinition of La Vey in this instnace, but then I use his work as a very rough guidline, as with every other philisophical influence in my life. My point being, I have both the Satanic, and the pathetic, slavish elements in my life. But. It has always been the Satanic that has pulled me back from the horrifying excesses of the latter.

I have, at points in my life, been little more than an alcoholic and a drug addict. I did some fucked up stuff while in that mode, selling my bellongings, my dignity with them, every fucking time. When you're that fucked, for that long, the strongest of folk can sink to the bottom of the pile. But every time I hit rock bottom, the imagary, the sentiment always came rushing back to me...and so here I am. Stronger than ever, in spite of all that horrible shite. So, born, made. Dunno where I fit in, and at the end of the day, I really don't care. In my mind, aye, I'm there. Irrespective of whether I use the lable or not.

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#23198 - 04/11/09 05:46 AM Re: Born Not Made [Re: EwanCS]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Ok....

You didn't really "bring anything to the table" there. Unless you have something relevant to add I would ask that you do not respond to the things I post. Thank you.
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No gods. No masters.

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#23212 - 04/11/09 04:58 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
EwanCS Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/07/09
Posts: 22
Loc: Glasgow, UK
The point I was making is that it is not as black and white as born, not made. Everyone is different, so I find it difficult to difine an entire mindset shared by who know how many, in a single sentence.

And I do believe this is an open forum, I'll post where I like.

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#43964 - 11/02/10 12:22 AM Genetic, Not Intentional? [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
nocTifer Offline
pledge


Registered: 11/07/09
Posts: 87
Loc: Khazakstan
Genetic, Not Intentional // Nov 1 2010 // nocTifer
---
Satanists have attempted, as have Thelemites before them, to latch onto something comparable to Jewish matrilinear inheritance, or things alike to this, by virtue of a 'born, not made' ideology. this competes with 'conversion' options available to expansivist (and at times imperialistic) religion. at points it also begins to sound like it might be possible to identify genetic markers for Satanism, a very odd implication of this stance.

"I'm sorry, Mr. Diabolicus, but your chromosomes indicate that you are not suited to be part of our Infernal Alliance."

"but, I iz born Sathanist! I isz an el33t!!"

"No, Mr. Diabolicus. Your genetic mapping (not to mention your style of communication) indicates that you were born Christian. I'm sorry, but you will have to be baptized within a Protestant denomination instead."

"Dis iz bulshit!!! When did Satanizm get all genetosized??! its fucked!"

"In the 2100s, Mr. Diabolicus, the Church of Satan installed genetic prerequisites to more formally require and affirm that all Satanists were real, rather than merely 'dress-up', self-styled types. Now please go away and leave us to our orgiastic, revived, secret grottos."
---
Arkaotika // Forestville // NW Forested bioregion
_________________________
Troll Towelhead, Grand Mufti of Satanism
http://www.facebook.com/Tr0llT0welhead
http://www.gospel-of-satan.com

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#43965 - 11/02/10 04:11 AM Re: Genetic, Not Intentional? [Re: nocTifer]
XBlackXScorpionX Offline
stranger


Registered: 08/05/10
Posts: 24
Loc: Arizona
*I don't know why the spell check program I used went nuts with capital letters. I'm sorry for the eyesore.*

This Post Made Me Stop And Think About My Life For A While.

I've Come To The Conclusion That I Was A Fairly Satanic (Or At Least Amoral) Little Kid.

Then I Was Introduced To This Book Called "the Holy Bible" And For Nearly 2 Decades "god" Loved Me For Who I Was. I Had No Reason To Make Myself Or Anything Else Better.

If You Could Measure The Amount My Life Stagnated In Weight, It Might Amount To Tons.

About A Year Ago, For A Reason Unknown To Me, I Started Moving Forward Again. I Got A Promotion With Tons Of Extra Responsibility, A Thing I'd Grown Afraid Of While I Was Stagnating.

The Quality Of My Life Has Gone Up So Much Since Then, Even If You Include My Horrible Car Accident.

The Satanic Bible (Which I've Only Read Recently, Which I've Only Read Once) Made My Mind Explode. It Described, For The Most Part, How I Was Before And How I Want To Be Now.
It's Message Unlocked That Deviant, Indulgent, Fearless, Happy Little Bastard That I Used To Be.

Was I Born A Satanist? It's Hard To Say And To Me The Point Is Moot Anyway. People Change, I Know Because I Was A Different Person For So Long.

It Doesn't Matter To Me If One Was Born One Way Or If They Discovered It Later. As Long As The "converted" Or "discovered" Or "whatever" Lives It, Loves It, And Owns It To The Best Of Their Ability.

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#86723 - 04/23/14 01:49 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: fakepropht]
inanna Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/14
Posts: 7
Loc: San Francisco, CA
I truly believe satanist are born. Speaking for myself being raised in a christian household I had no way of knowing. All I knew was that as I got older I had a lot of questions about everything - why - B'CoS it has always been my nature to question everything and everyone. I knew I was different in terms of my way of thinking and how I saw the world. Needless to say after many years of SUFFERING and traveling on the wrong damn road I decided to get off that path and turn left.

Enough said!

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#86730 - 04/23/14 02:22 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: inanna]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
I've never bought into the 'born not made' meme very much. My own experience leads me to believe that we are in fact made, by our own choices and experiences. Experiences effect us in a variety of ways, and especially learning new information can impact the way we think, and that includes 'Satanic thinking'.

In a sense, we are who we choose to be. We can even go against our own nature if we wish, perhaps to develop a skill or character trait we like, for whatever reason, and those actions may change us by our own will. I've changed in a variety of ways throughout my life, and just can't really buy into the idea of being 'born not made'.

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#86750 - 04/23/14 11:04 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: 334forwardspin]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1146
Loc: San Diego, CA
For the most part I agree with the above statement.

However, there is something to be said for approach, and general behavior. There are certain personality traits that are found in a slim percentage of people. To me that is perception of the world and dealings therein.. amorality being one, and "The ends justify the means" approach being another.

There are many that don't even identify, but act that certain way. For example I was watching "Wolf of Wall Street" and Jordan Belfort strikes me as one of those types. Using what you can to benefit yourself, your inner circle, and fuck all the rest. They are either stepping stones or obstacles.

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#86751 - 04/23/14 11:07 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: 334forwardspin]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1146
Loc: San Diego, CA
I agree the "born not made" is definitely a meme, and when used as such becomes a special card to separate someone from the rest.

However...

There is something to be said for approach, and general behavior. More often than not this approach is innate. There are certain personality traits that are found in a percentage of people. To me that is perception of the world and dealings therein.. amorality being one, and "The ends justify the means" approach being another.

There are many that don't even identify, but act that certain way. For example I was watching "Wolf of Wall Street" and Jordan Belfort strikes me as one of those types. Using what you can to benefit yourself, your inner circle, and fuck all the rest. They are either stepping stones or obstacles.

At mods - an error occurred while posting/editing, please delete first post.



Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/23/14 11:21 PM)

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#86760 - 04/24/14 10:19 AM Re: Born Not Made [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
The phrase has become part of a memeplex but it doesn't mean it's as trivial as a LOLcat. The phrase was used to discern a specific type of essence a person either has or doesn't. It's really that simple.
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#86765 - 04/24/14 11:42 AM Re: Born Not Made [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1146
Loc: San Diego, CA
I definitely understand. It's for those that lack the characteristics that it becomes somewhat trite. You see the question often asked, "when did you become a Satanist?" Someone will invariably answer, "I was born this way." Which may be true, they may have the innate qualities I partially alluded to above, but more often then not they are saying it because they think it legitimizes identity.
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#86766 - 04/24/14 11:50 AM Re: Born Not Made [Re: CanisMachina42]
334forwardspin Offline
member


Registered: 03/04/13
Posts: 509
Loc: Las Vegas,NV United States
There certainly are personality traits that are found in a percentage of people, and not present in others. However, this does not mean that these traits are 'born' so to speak. Many times, you'll see the people's personality and character traits change, as well as other things. This seems to be what the OP was getting at, that a person may change.

Because of my experience, and what I have seen with other people, I can't logically believe that some people simply have 'damned' genes and can never change, or that some people are 'destine for greatness'(I don't think Satanism automatically makes one 'elite', but you get what I'm saying I'm sure) People rise, and people fall. I believe we are made by our choices, and how we interpret our experiences.

'Born not made' more or less, inflates the ego, for some as a way of believing they have 'elite genes' and that others will never catch them. Theistic Satanists often think this as well, that they were 'chosen by Satan' as they put it. It's sometimes called 'fireborn and clayborn'. Some Christians

This however, does not do it for me. If I were 'born elite', I'd just feel like the benefactor of chance, as I didn't do anything to become this way. For me, there is much more pride in being 'self made'.

So, you could say I like the idea of being 'made' better, which may make me seem biased. However, in my experience evidence does seem to point to much of what we are being made by choice and experience, as I have changed a lot, and seen people change.


Edited by 334forwardspin (04/24/14 11:51 AM)

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#86767 - 04/24/14 11:50 AM Re: Born Not Made [Re: CanisMachina42]
SIN3 Offline
stalker


Registered: 05/14/13
Posts: 6681
Loc: Virginia
 Quote:
but more often then not they are saying it because they think it legitimizes identity.


I get you. I agree, there's gaggles of these posers on every social platform. In the meat world, it's worse. Let me tell you, the people I've met and the shit they try to peddle is just WOW.

Some even think that if they peddle it just right, they can sell that SRA narrative of born in a cave as the spawn of Satan himself. "I was born this way to Father Satan!"

I met this tattoo artist from Alabama (did some work on me) a few years back, he used this story complete with "I have a collection of human skulls" to prove he made human sacrifice. I played along for the shiggles, I wanted to see this collection! Naturally, then came the excuses and 'oaths of secrecy'.

I'm pretty sure he was using it to impress me. I used that, free tattoo ;\)
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SINJONES.com

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#86771 - 04/24/14 12:48 PM Re: Born Not Made [Re: SIN3]
CanisMachina42 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1146
Loc: San Diego, CA
Scanning for understated mockery, please be patient...

Awaiting results...

Results inconclusive, try again later.

Call myself out here... In the past I have been guilty of "playing to the audience". In my mind I'm thinking "if I make the right impact I will gain some credibility, or respect." In their mind I had already failed, and are subject to any and all subsequent manipulation.


Edited by CanisMachina42 (04/24/14 01:31 PM)

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