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#23487 - 04/19/09 10:10 AM might is left
meateatereater Offline
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Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 10
I'll keep this simple. It really doesnt need much more than a couple of lines. I am very curious what this community thinks of the following principle and example. I am a firm opponent to the concept that "might is right", and I'm pretty sure I can do it in this one (hypothetical situation) sentence: If might is right, then I am "right" to go rape a child right now.

Definition of "might":
1) physical strength: He swung with all his might. 2) superior power or strength; force: the theory that might makes right. 3) power or ability to do or accomplish; capacity.

I have much more to add but can wait till someone lets the dogs out. Come and get it with all your "might".

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#23488 - 04/19/09 11:09 AM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Weirdly is that if you are a strong opponent of "might is right" you are a strong opponent of Satanism at the same time. Might is right is one of the fundamental principles in Satanism. You do pick out a nice emotional example -to most- but what example you take does not matter. Might is right is a mechanism and beyond morals. Right in this case is too easily confused with good or right in a judgmental sense.
Disagreeing with it is a bit like saying you oppose natural selection because it affects innocent puppies too. Natural selection does not care, only the observers might.

D.


Edited by Diavolo (04/19/09 12:07 PM)

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#23492 - 04/19/09 12:53 PM Re: might is left [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
D makes some good points. "Might is right" isn't a proclamation of value, it is a recognition of state. You can either recognize nature as the cruel bitch that she is, or you can pretend otherwise, trying to color the universe with your own moral sensibilities. The fact is everything that is alive destroys and consumes other life by necessity.

Realism is a cornerstone of Satanism. Self deception is anathema.

However, with that said it must also be noted that recognizing 'might is right' as a natural element of life in general is not paramount to accepting it as a value statement.
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#23494 - 04/19/09 12:58 PM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Good, bad, right, wrong - it all depends on the the situation being looked at and who is looking at it. Yes you are free to rape a child, you might even feel like you have the right to do so. However, someone else is also free to put a bullet in your brain for doing so; they would probably also feel like they were right for doing so.

Just because you disagree with something doesn't mean that it loses all validity. I could say that I don't agree that grass is green and the sky is blue, but that won't change the fact that they are. Might does make right. If you want proof of that just look at any government. They (the government) have the might, therefore they dictate what is right. You can argue all you want but until you have the power, or, might, you won't be able to change a thing.

Also bear in mind that could does not always mean should. Might makes right is a big part of Satanic philosophy; so is responsibility to the responsible - I see those as being to balancing factors.
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#23496 - 04/19/09 01:51 PM Re: might is left [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
meateatereater Offline
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Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 10
 Quote:
Might is right is a mechanism and beyond morals.


Definition of mechanism:

1) An assembly of moving parts performing a complete functional motion, often being part of a large machine; linkage. 2) The agency or means by which an effect is produced or a purpose is accomplished. 3) Machinery or mechanical appliances in general. 4) The structure or arrangement of parts of a machine or similar device, or of anything analogous. 5) The mechanical part of something; any mechanical device: the mechanism of a clock. 6) Routine methods or procedures; mechanics: the mechanism of government. 7) Mechanical execution, as in painting or music; technique. 8) The theory that everything in the universe is produced by matter in motion; materialism.

I am assuming the statement of "mechanism being beyond morals" is intended or thought of as being an intellectual approach; an express of intelligence. I didn't see any evident involvement of intelligent action in any of the definitions, rather, I saw a mindless machine. Nor did I see any attribute of the Satanism that I have come to respect; the wisdom, beauty and passion of knowing better. I think its easy for someone to act all badass when its not them being "naturally selected". Has anybody here lost a loved one due to tradegy or rape or murder? I mean I really hope so, because I would really like to catch on film the moment that when this happens, them casually shrugging their shoulders like "Oh, well" lighting a cigar and continuing on with their life twittering away. Emotions are a part of the so revered-by-here capital "I" arent they? Or are they denied in the equation of reality?

In my opinion "might is right" is not Satanic. [the fable:] Isn't that why Satan rebelled from god in the first place? Because gods might just is not right? [the reality:] Isn't that why Satanists defile the religion that shackles this world? Because they still are succeeding; and their might without a doubt definately is not "right". Actually, to me, its left, in the gutter with the rest of the people that shit on each other and this world for the sake of nothing valuable at all.

P.S.) I just dont consider self-defense "might", even if I win. Sure I had the ability, the muscle, the might to defend myself, but I dont have the interest, nay even the ability, (the might) to even think in the same terms as the tyrant, the oppresion, the shalt notters...


Edited by meateatereater (04/19/09 02:08 PM)
Edit Reason: the postscript

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#23497 - 04/19/09 02:02 PM Re: might is left [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
meateatereater Offline
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Registered: 04/15/09
Posts: 10
 Quote:
They (the government) have the might, therefore they dictate what is right. You can argue all you want but until you have the power, or, might, you won't be able to change a thing.


This is 100% true. I honestly cannot argue with it. All I can say is I am the type that if I did obtain this might, and then became the government I overturned, I would not be the same mechanism they were. I am not sure if this means anything, I'm sure all of us think subjectively what is "better" than something else.

I also as an individual extend my consideration outward, because 1000 people on the same mental level as I is more power than 10 people on the same mental level as I. I say this because lets say your "the man", the ideal candidate to rule a nation and really make a difference in the world. Life would be easier if everyone would just stfu and agree; hence more power to the self, the "I", and more time to truly enjoy it, which is what life is all about.

Thanks for the good point...

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#23498 - 04/19/09 02:05 PM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3115
Might depends on how you perceive it.

"I have the might to cut the grass with siccors"
Then comes along the local gardner:
"I have the might to cut the grass with my lawnmower"..

Politicians have might over me because they rule the country...
But if I start a riot and get many people behind me who are striving for a same purpose as I do.. then I'm mightier then they are.

Then again might depends on the tools you are using...
The same politicians can ask the army to wipe me out.
If I'm lucky the army refuses to cooperate with them and choose my side.....

Might depends on the usage.
I can have might about anything I want, but if I want an order to be executed the next question comes to my mind: "How do I use the tools and perspectives to execute the order?"

Might depends on experience.
If I'm not experienced enough I might even loose might I have over certain things and thus I become weaker...


Then again... what is might apart from the normal definition?


Edited by Dimitri (04/19/09 02:06 PM)
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#23500 - 04/19/09 02:55 PM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Did you not pay attention to what we wrote or are you unable to understand the difference between the acceptance of what is and the value that one grants the effects or the choice to act upon them?

If "might is right" is not satanic, "will to power" neither is because it is driven by that principle. If those things are not accepted by you, I fear you never understood Satanism to begin with.

D.

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#23504 - 04/19/09 03:35 PM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
Emotions are a part of the so revered-by-here capital "I" arent they?


The I is capitalized because that is proper grammar, and proper grammar has (unfortunately) become one of the most telling signs of basic intellect on the internet. Emotions don't have shit to do with whether or not one can properly compose a sentence.

 Quote:
[the fable:] Isn't that why Satan rebelled from god in the first place? Because gods might just is not right?


Obviously you don't know anything about Satanism or you would not waste your keystrokes typing this drivel. Go back to 101 and read some more so that I don't have to repeat what has already been stated by myself and dozens of others.

 Quote:
Isn't that why Satanists defile the religion that shackles this world?


The last time I checked, there were hundreds of religions that "shackle this world". Which one are you referring to? Also, if you would have taken five minutes to actually read posts in 101, you would realize that MOST people consider Satanism not a religion at all but instead a philosophy.

 Quote:
...and their might without a doubt definately is not "right". Actually, to me, its left, in the gutter with the rest of the people that shit on each other and this world for the sake of nothing valuable at all.


Oh, clever!

To reply to both this and your previous post in one easy answer which you probably will not understand because you seem incapable of taking anything but the most literal and emoational translation from anything you read...which leads me to believe that you are simply looking for an argument...

"Might is Right" is an illustration that the strong survive and the weak succumb. No gazelle will ever overtake a lioness and no field mouse will ever win a battle with a hawk. In terms of Satanism and human beings, it has very little to do with one's physical strength and more to do with a person's ability to overcome and succeed regardless of the rules and whatever their limitations may be, thus proving their own biological superiourity.

In other words, a person's mental strength is more important.

Yes, a person could murder, rape, rob, etc to their hearts content, BUT (and this seems to be the part that you either cannot or will not grasp) DOES THAT BENEFIT THE AGGRESSOR OR NOT? A person who commits a crime for any reason and gets caught is not showing that they are the stronger of the species as well as a person who rejects such urges that do not benefit them in both the short term and the long term does. "Survival of the fittest" when referring to humans living in the 21st Century actually has almost nothing at all to do with physical strength. I could probably kick Obama's ass in about 2 minutes, but he has much more power (MIGHT) than I will probably ever have and therefore he is the lion and I am the gazelle. An accountant has more "might" than some schmuck flipping burgers, and the burger flipper has more "might" than the bum asleep in the back-alley doorway.

Is any of this making sense? Shall I supply you with definitions?

 Quote:
the tyrant, the oppresion, the shalt notters...


Are you seriously trying to apply these labels to us? There are literally people on this board earning six figures. There are people here who own vast amounts of land and there are people here who work in professions which require years of education. And none of us are Pol Pot, Ghengis Khan, or Hitler (though some of us may aspire to such).

Seriously, get thee out of all forums but 101 until you begin to have an inkling of what you are talking about. This verbal diarrhea has no place in the serious forums where the big kids play.


P.S. Regarding your murdered loved one scenario: It happens. That is reality and that is the world we live in. It doesn't mean for a moment, however, that one should not continue to advance oneself. The ability to look at something OBJECTIVELY is generally going to be the deciding factor in that person's level and capability of succeeding.







Edited by ceruleansteel (04/19/09 03:40 PM)
Edit Reason: just had more to say...

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#23520 - 04/19/09 07:12 PM Re: might is left [Re: ceruleansteel]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
I'm currently reading "might is right" and I admit I had an à priori about it before starting (I was conscious of it and that's why I read it, question of making up my own mind).

I cannot give my conclusions as I've not finished yet, just my first impressions.

It inspires me ideas of courage, struggling for life with no fear, doing what YOU think to be right.

It also made me think about knighthood in the noble sense of the term.

Then by "coincidence", I watched a humoristic TV serie where King Arthur explained what was being a knight. He concludes :
"If you see 3 guys fighting against one, you defend the one who's alone."

But King Arthur, is he not a great Xian, in a holy quest for a holy Graal ? So what he advise is it a fucing Xian idea? Should I be with the 3, fighting 4 against 1? It stayed in my head for few days...

In fact I don't know what I would do as I'll have to observe the situation and make up my own mind at that moment (carpe diem). May be I'll pass my way and will not put my noze in affairs I'm not concerned with.
Or may be I'll fell Satanism is also about justice. If 3 are fighting against one and I see the one is fighting with courage, probably the 3 ones are cowards, they're the weaks!
So, as I'm a knight and I'm the only one having a sword, for my own enjoyement and because I feel it's right and I might do it, I'll do it !

The same about "defending the widow and the orphan" No if done systematically for getting a piece of heaven but yes if it's for sustaining men/women of valor. And after all, if I bet on the good horse, I'll probably gain a friend of valor who might help me when I'll be in the shit.

Dan, CS, Diavolo (and others), I would be pleased to have your comments \:\)

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#23525 - 04/19/09 08:03 PM Re: might is left [Re: Fabiano]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
If playing the 'hero' role benefits you in some way, have at it. People don't act in the name of altruism, they act in self interest.

I have personally whooped ass on people for harming women/children many times throughout my life, but I don't pretend that isn't based in empathy - ie I have people I care about and I do not want to see THEM hurt.
Basically the golden rule. Do unto others.

Just don't forget the Satanic 'clause' to that rule.

Lex Talionis. The law of the jungle is always king.
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#23530 - 04/19/09 08:41 PM Re: might is left [Re: meateatereater]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I think putting it simply as to might is right:

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's the "right" thing to do.

Personal resposibility for the choices you make with the knowledge that being an "Asshole" has drawbacks.


As to child rape, depending on the era, it was perfectly acceptable to rape your wife.

Then again, a gun can be an equalizer in any situation.

Morgan
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Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#23554 - 04/20/09 02:38 AM Re: might is left [Re: Fabiano]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
King Arthur is a fucked up story on different levels. You have the King getting cheated on by his wife fucking his best friend. Then you have his half sister fucking him to conceive a child.
Then he gets the idea that finding the grail will fix everything. His knights go on various adventures till Arthur is killed in battle by his son. I believe the grail is never found. Toss in some crazy magic stuff and thats it.

I never thought of knighthood in terms of Xitans.
Honor, chivalry, courage, and valor are Ideas or Ideals that transend religious beliefs. They are about a way of living, and doing rather than following. Being Responsible for your actions, and seeing the outcome of situations before they happen. Knowing what is the "right" thing to do no matter what happens, and having the courage to see your actions through. It is in a way very noble.

The courage to do the "right" thing is very hard to come by these days.


Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#23570 - 04/20/09 02:03 PM Re: might is left [Re: Fabiano]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Life without fear is not something to aspire. If there is no fear, there is no courage and life should be seen as overcoming fear or handling it. Fear is an aspect of us, it is to a degree an instinctive reaction and thus not something we will ever be without. What makes someone a hero –take that figurative- is overruling the instinctive reaction, compared to the plebs that toll the bell and hide for the Vikings.

I think we should not look at King Arthur in the Christian perspective. As we all know all too much legend and lore is rewritten or infected by the parasitic nature of Judeo religions. One can interpret the legend in numerous ways. I'll quick-wiki you a different perspective, if you prefer more, explore.

 Quote:
Il Mistero del Graal e la Tradizione Ghibellina dell'Impero (The Mystery of the Grail and the Gibelin Imperial Concept); translated as The Mystery of the Grail: Initiation and Magic in the Quest for the Spirit is a work by Italian fascist philosopher and racial theorist Julius Evola. It was published in 1934 by Hoepli; English translation by Inner Traditions International, 1995 (ISBN 0892815736).

Evola interpreted the Holy Grail and its heroic mythos as symbolic of knightly or kshatriya initiation (reintegration into the primordial state), deriving from the ancient Celtic-Hyperborean tradition. Evola also significantly linked the Grail mythos (with its esoteric themes of the "sick king" and the "broken sword" in need of restoration) to the aspirations of the medieval Ghibellines, who attempted a restoration of the "Sacrum Imperium" or Holy Roman Empire. As H.T. Hansen states, Evola considered the Grail as an initiatory "Hyperborean mystery" and also "a symbolic expression of hope and of the will of specific ruling classes in the Middle Ages (namely, Ghibellines), who wanted to reorganize and reunite the entire Western world as it was at that time into a Holy Empire, that is, one based on a transcendental, spiritual basis" (p. vii., The Mystery of the Grail).

Robert Richardson considers Evola's ideas on the Holy Grail as sources for Pierre Plantard's later claims;[1] by this argument Evola becomes indirectly responsible for the contemporary Holy Blood, Holy Grail popular culture lore.
To Evola the Grail was based on the Ghibelline tradition, being the apex of Western Civilisation. The Ghibelline tradition during the medieval period was represented by the German Hohenstaufen imperial line in opposition to the papacy.[2]


About your argument that weak is the bigger group fighting the smaller one, I do not really know what to think. If taken this example to a larger scale; isn't the Taliban the smaller group?
Would I consider a fight of three against one as an unfair –weak- fight simply based upon numbers? No, not at all. You see, what many forget is that we humans have a tribal nature and just like you entering a ghetto and calling one of them a nigger and thus invoking the wrath of many, so does this happen at all levels. So I hardly see it as a noble act -by definition- to step in and defend the smaller party. After all, if the smaller party had been wise, he would not have provoked the bigger party. And yes, at times he provokes by just being there and is nothing but the victim of circumstances. But again, such things happen and MIR again. It's social Darwinism, we always knew we were an pretty evil bunch. If we step in, it has very little to do with justice. Justice is a concept like karma and we only use it to gather brownie points. Some for heaven, some for other illusionary ideas. There is no such thing as justice. What we call it is when someone gets what WE think he deserves. It's some reward/punishment concept that is clustered together with morality but does not exists outside of the human sphere and thus, is largely influenced by personal definitions upon it. If morals are relative to us, so is justice.

But do I believe in nobility? Of course.

D.

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#23571 - 04/20/09 02:26 PM Re: might is left [Re: Diavolo]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
I would just like to add that common perceptions as knights being chivalrous and noble are really nothing more than myths and imbellishments of folklore.

The truth is most of these "noble knights" were nothing more than common thugs; out of work soldiers, whom, essentially extorted protection money from the peasants living in the country side. Often times if the residents of a certain village couldn't come up with the dough, their villages were ransacked and burnt to the ground.

All that is, of course, another example of MIR.
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