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#37405 - 04/06/10 01:15 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Fist]
immortal1 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Virginia
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Oh dear god, make it stop.

Look kids.... you are either born a satanist or you are not. You cannot 'become' one.


Well Fist, I might agree with you about this, but I would like a clarification first. Do you mean by being "born a Satanist" that even from a young age you did not subscribe to RHP religions, even when it was a cultural or family norm? That at age 7 you were reading the Satanic Bible? Or do you mean (and surely what I think you mean) that when you did discover Satanism, you realized that this was the mentality and belief system that you already possessed but did not know there were others that shared in it and that it even had a name?
The only reason I asked for this clarification is that I have read many posts that touch on this subject. I surely do not think that one can "become" a Satanist simply out of desire. One clearly must possess a rare and unique personality, coupled with intelligence, and a discerning and questioning world-view for Satanism to be a viable path for them. I was raised religiously and culturally as a Jew, but never, and I say NEVER, felt comfortable with it and even openly disagreed with its tenets in Sunday School (much to the dismay of my teachers). So when I did begin educating myself about Satanism, first by reading the Satanic Bible, I immediately felt that my ideas were (A) not insane, (B) nothing to be ashamed of, and (C) shared by others. Learning more about Satanism, I am refining and defining my personal beliefs, beliefs that, YES, were with me from a very young age.
But to think that as a child, one could truly identify themselves as a Satanist is an absurd concept. A pre-pubescent brain undergoes so many drastic changes, determined by both genetics and the environment, that I would be more confident in stating that "Once you pass puberty and your identity begins to truly form, that it is then that you must know internally which path you are on." Self-deception will get you nowhere.
Fist, I am suggesting that everyone starts somewhere...we are or have been new to this at some time in our life. That is not important. What is important is what you do with yourself from now on. Better to question hearsay and doubt than accept it for the drivel it is.

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#37412 - 04/06/10 03:56 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Fist]
Mindmaster Offline
pledge


Registered: 03/17/10
Posts: 68
Loc: Detroit, MI
 Originally Posted By: Fist
Oh dear god, make it stop.

Look kids.... you are either born a satanist or you are not. You cannot 'become' one.

Regardless, in any social situation never ask if you fit in. No self-respecting practitioner would ask such a question. The first rule of self-deification is to be able to stand on your own merits without external affirmation.

Everyone a Shining Star.....


Actually, I don't agree with this idea. Some people have a very oppressive Judeo-Christian upbringing and realized most of it to be wrong however do not immediately resonate with The Satanic Bible. Generally, for these people the sticker shock of "Satanism" is too much. I have a friend who was raised in a devout Lutheran household, and he believes nearly every philosophy in the TSB however will never call himself Satanist due to his feeling (properly, I might add) that it associates him with retards and bottom feeders. I understand his choices... you likely do as well. See this "born a Satanist" idea would be great if people were immutable and their ideas couldn't change over time. In this case, my buddy merely asked me of my beliefs and it resonated with my own. Does that mean he's a Satanist? No!

See there is another definition of Satanism without the Devil, it's called Humanism. You don't get to dress in black and wear red ties, you don't get to poop on the Christians, but you are otherwise the same. My buddy here is a humanist and as "Satanic" as half the other people around here without the douche-bagery that elitism generally gets you into. Other than that you are exactly the same.

People are more likely to become Atheists than Satanists in any case as ritual elements with the mainstream consciousness have fallen out of favor. Ask yourself why you carry the badge? Is it belief in dark forces, tribute to a fallen king (LaVey), or that you need a team to cheer for or is this the only team that will accept you?

Let's not forget our history lessons either. If you have to be born into Satanism and you think that makes you better than other people you may well fall on your own sword. Ask yourself why would anyone would want to join your cause? Alien-elitism and social syphilis go together like peas and carrots. If your ideas are so great why don't others rally to the cause and why not embrace and teach others? You can possess brotherhood and sisterhood and still be self-interested. A great idea is measured in it's applicability and not it's exclusivity.

Perhaps, I am being a stick in the mud here, but there is nothing wrong with someone testing their beliefs verses their peers and even testing the ones they hold periodically for validity. To do otherwise is to develop a faith, and thus you have destroyed your development exactly at this point. There's nothing hypocritical from going from a Christian belief (deciding it's wrong) and moving to Satanism. I don't really believe there is going back, but there is certainly a development of forward momentum in that type of move. Who am I to judge anyone elses self-realization? Self-realization is certainly a path you walk alone, but you can visit with friends and converse about milestones.

Perhaps that's what I see the least here... Milestones.. That tells me of the "death" of development and the rise of an orthodoxy. So where is the forward momentum in this "Satanism" now? How does Satanism inform people to the cause without shitting on them if they don't immediately agree with every tenet? That likely is the reason for the stagnation of Satanism at this juncture. I see conflicting views dealt with with swords and not consideration... Am I the only one?

You can't readily claim "self-deification" either. Atheists don't believe in any deism period, but in any case... I would say "prove it" or "shut it." Speaking of self-deification is silly business... you are speaking of factors truly impossible to know for a fact... putting blinders on doesn't make it all true!


Edited by Mindmaster (04/06/10 04:29 AM)

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#37415 - 04/06/10 04:21 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Mindmaster]
Zophos Offline
member


Registered: 03/28/10
Posts: 115
Loc: U.S.A.
This topic seems to attract interest whenever it finds its way into a post. Good, I say. Always question opinions, especially dominant ones.

For your consideration, I might point out that there is a [locked] thread specifically on the subject, as well as a recent [locked] debate between Morgan and myself. The ideas and arguments put forward there should provide some food for thought.


Z.
_________________________
Nihil sit tam infirmum aut instabile quam fama potentiae non sua vi nita.

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#37417 - 04/06/10 04:36 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Mindmaster]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
You make the choices that influence your life.
You take responsibility for the outcome of any choices.
You live as you want.
You make it work.
That is just some of the first steps into being your own God.

You can agree or disagree with wheather or Satanists are born or made. As it has been shown in numerous debates, discussions, and the thread that was just locked YESTERDAY, none of it will change anyone's opinion. Some people can claim whatever they want, no amount of anything will ever change their mind. It's not hersay or bullshit, those that feel this way know it to be true based on a ton of shit that will have little meaning to those that don't get it.

It's not a matter of needing people to join the Satanic cause, I personally wish less people would take up the name. The is no need to convert and rally others to the cause. There is no cause, Satanism is an individual personal philosophy.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#37429 - 04/06/10 04:22 PM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: bornoffire999]
CanisMajor Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/17/10
Posts: 49
Loc: Texas
Fit in? \:\/

Read the TSB. It makes sense or it doesn't; however,you problably won't get it if "fitting in" is your trip.

 Originally Posted By: bornoffire999
i believe there is a lucifer he is a god.the original god,this is my belief no proof only my personal reflection......im thrilled to have such a openmind for such a powerful thing.


I suggest that you begin with Hop On Pop,followed by One Fish,Two Fish,Red Fish,Blue Fish.

If your comprehension has not failed thus far,you may then proceed to Green Eggs and Ham.

If you heed my advice,maybe one day you'll advance to the infernal tome of the 4th degree priesthood, The Butter Battle Book. ;\)
_________________________
For every complex problem,there is a solution that is simple,neat,and wrong.
H.L Mencken

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#37474 - 04/09/10 05:54 PM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
immortal1 Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/20/10
Posts: 8
Loc: Northern Virginia
[quote=MawhrinSkel]
 Quote:

Elitism is a useful tool. We call it stratification. Whatever you choose to call it is none of my business, unless you say it with the intent to insult me. We call ourselves better, because to our eyes, we are.


Well, I would agree with you that elitism serves a purpose...the purpose of the individual. It enables one to separate themselves from other unsavory persons or groups. It surely should give the person a sense of self-worth and superiority. I do disagree that it is in anyway equivalent to societal stratification and that establishing oneself as elite makes it so. Stratification occurs through the application of the rules and standards of a society and, generally, the economic endeavors of individuals and groups alike. However, the status of an elite person is often determined by the individuals who seek it, and, as seen here on this website, can be based solely on one's beliefs and opinions and may have little to do with achievement or success or even how a person may be viewed by others (not that this is of much import to most Satanists).
To label oneself as "alien" would be more appropriate in most of these situations, as a self-established title of "elite" means nothing if others do not crown that person with the same title. Let me finish by saying that I find most of what you post to be extremely well-written, logical, and thought-provoking. I look forward to reading, learning, and responding to more of your posts.

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#37500 - 04/10/10 11:14 PM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
 Quote:
My point of view on stratification is simply this: If you perceive and treat yourself as elite, others will cotton on to your 'image' and subconsciously accept your superiority, or else become aware of your rather insidious attempt at co-opting their opinions.


 Quote:
In treating myself like elite, I become it.


So you're suggesting that projecting an air of elitism is equivalent to being elite?

I think I can hear the Goldman Sachs crew tittering from here.

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#37503 - 04/11/10 03:10 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
Thank you for explaining.

I can appreciate what you are saying, but in my experience respect is commensurate with ability. There are general standards by which we are all assessed, regardless of our flattering approximations of self worth. I've yet to encounter anyone who has profited from a bluff of this nature.

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#37510 - 04/11/10 10:42 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Clarence]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"I've yet to encounter anyone who has profited from a bluff of this nature."

Why the hell would anyone tell you?

The phrase "fake it till you make it", is based upon convincing yourself and others you have "it".

If you act like a victim, people treat you like a victim.
Just like if you act like you are all that, people wonder what's going on. Plus, if you have any ounce of charisma, people will get sucked into you. Hense, why Paris Hilton and other dumb asses are famous for just being famous.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#37515 - 04/11/10 01:51 PM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Clarence]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Clarence
Thank you for explaining.

I've yet to encounter anyone who has profited from a bluff of this nature.



You have to be kidding me! In my 60 turns around the sun, I've see a LOT of people who've garnered loads of respect for things they had very little to do with and, on their own, could probably not accomplist. This ranges from a couple of generals in the military, down to the incompetent NCO who's only real skill is taking credit done by the others under their command, to people in business who've taken credit for the work of others and risen through the corporate structures. learning how to surround themselves with "those who can."

Do they get found out? Sometimes yes, and often no. But as long as their peers perceive them as "the brains" of the outfit, they prosper and they garner the respect rightfully due to others.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#37537 - 04/12/10 02:29 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Jake999]
Clarence Offline
pledge


Registered: 01/14/10
Posts: 61
I suppose these things can happen, but I have found that empty posturing is usually exposed for what it is - sooner or later.

Perhaps I've lived a charmed life, but it is only those of worth that really profit in my racket.

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#37786 - 04/18/10 09:47 AM Re: Wondering if I fit in as satanic? [Re: Clarence]
William Wright Offline
active member


Registered: 10/25/09
Posts: 862
Loc: Nashville
Clarence, although I agree with Jake that empty posturing has its rewards, like you I prefer to associate with those I perceive as authentic. Elitism as I appreciate the concept is not about deception necessarily, but about assuming the role of who you want to become in order to help you become it.

I heard a radio personality describe this idea. He was new to the business and concerned about whether he could rise to the challenge. He decided to “act” like a radio personality even though he didn’t particularly feel like one. Over time, he morphed into the character he created.

The self fulfilling prophecy concept is powerful, and those who are successful in life make a conscious effort to use it to their advantage.
_________________________
In Minecraft all chickens are spies.

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