Page all of 3 123>
Topic Options
#24557 - 05/13/09 09:50 PM I'm ashamed....(graphic content)
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
...of the abuse of prisoners at Abu Gharib. But not for the reasons you might think. I'm actually ashamed and disappointed that what seemed to have occurred most frequently at the prison was blatantly homo-erotic humiliation. I mean, seriously, couldn't we have come up with something better than this? Making naked men sit on each other? Handcuffing naked prisoners to the bars?





Now, I know Muslim men have to be the most homophobic group of people on the planet right now, so I can understand why this would be demoralizing to them. But still, you'd think they'd at least get more creative with the "torture". All of this just makes US soldiers look like fucking queers, despite the fact that women are also posing in these photos. Where are all the famous waterboarding pictures? Let's see some electrocution! Better yet, how about we string up the little bastard that took these pics, which almost singlehandedly provoked the scorn and anger of millions of Muslims. Yes, let's give them more reasons to strap bombs on themselves and blow up innocent civilians in marketplaces and tour buses.

Hey, if we're going to piss them off, let's at least do it in a way that doesn't involve men on men, hairy balls and asses. Standards, people, standards. I'm sure that a whole hell of a lot more actual "torture" went on behind closed doors, and while there might be photos of them somewhere, I doubt the Pentagon will be giving those up any time soon.

I'm all for torture, but only when it elicits viable information, not to be used as a reason for a photo-op.

*shakes head in disgust*
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#24558 - 05/13/09 09:58 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3881
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
How can you be ashamed of something you in no way supported or participated in? Responsibility to the responsible and all that.

Anyway, I think there are plenty more uses for torture aside from extracting information. Demoralization (in a wartime situation) or just plain gleeful revenge come to mind.

I do agree that the homoeroticism really makes the american military look bad. But to be realistic, in the eyes of the world community their image has already pretty much hit bottom.

Everything embarrassing they do now is just redundant \:\)
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#24560 - 05/13/09 10:10 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Well, you know what I mean by "ashamed"...I was being a wee bit sarcastic when I used that term...I'd say more like disappointed, definitely. You should know me better than that Dan...when am I ever ashamed of anything?

What good does demoralization do when you're using it on prisoners who are shuttered from the outside world? And who are you demoralizing? Farmers? Truck drivers? Gimme a break. Especially when evidence of the above works against your mission? That's just really shooting yourself in the foot. These pics reminded me of "Harold & Kumar: Escape From Guantanamo Bay".

Cockmeat sandwich, anyone?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#24562 - 05/13/09 10:29 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3881
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, I didn't know what you meant then! It is out of character for you to be all ashamed and whatnot though. \:\)

When I spoke of demoralization I was speaking less of the actual prisoners being tortured than their countrymen in arms. Those ones would probably be scared shitless to be captured(or fight at all) when they hear exactly what happens to poor motherfuckers that get caught.
_________________________
ADM
ideological vandal

Top
#24566 - 05/13/09 10:55 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Dan_Dread]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
It was just stupid.
Very stupid, for a bunch of reasons.

First, no photos of torture events. Thats the stupidiest thing ever, a picture postcard of how dumb you are.

Second, repeated torture doesn't work, the human body adapts and it doesn't mean anything anymore. One guy got waterboarded 283 times. Shit, after the 5th time, it doesnt mean anything. He knows your not going to kill him, and he is just going to be late with his prayers.

Third, some people ENJOY torture. That means they like the electroshocks, the penis abuse, the forced homoerotisim, and the verbal abuse.

Fourth, pictures of them conspiring with the enemy tortures them. Meaning, put them in a suit, show them eating with their captors, show that they caved into the USA. This demoralizes their fellow uncaptured terrorists, and turns the prisioners into weak willed individuals verses martyers in their countryman's eyes. Even if they do not give up information, it will appear that they did.

Fifth, if you are going to torture, do it right. Use one as an example, and let the other watch from indivdual rooms. Seeing and hearing someone else tortured, will convince them to open their mouths if they think they will never get out of the room alive.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#24572 - 05/14/09 12:03 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Morgan]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1646
Loc: Orlando, FL
I doubt that most of the men being tortured secretly enjoyed it out of some repressed masochism.

But I do agree that it's not as effective when it's obvious that they're not going to kill them. We're the U-S of frickin' A here. 283 times? Christ, I would have given up after 30.

Well, Nemesis, keep in mind that the grunts doing the torture and humiliation aren't creative geniuses here. They're a bunch of stupid morons who weren't intelligent enough to remember not to take pictures of themselves illegally humiliating inmates.

Maybe you can get in touch with the military and give them a few tips on some more effective torture tactics.

EDIT:

On a further note, I would like to bring attention to the following article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/politics/14photos.html?ref=global-home

Basically, the Obama administration has decided at the last minute to halt the release of the "torture photos" documenting abuse and interrogative torture employed on prisoners under the military's watch. Their reason? "Because they might inflame anti-American feelings abroad".

Really? It's not like they can just shove the whole "torture" thing under the carpet now that it might be inflammatory. The whole world knows it, and now "they" will just say something along the lines of "The American's torture was so horrible that they covered it up", or portray the censorship as an act of dishonesty or weakness.

No, it's not the end of the world. I just wish the people up on top would stick to their guns.

Besides, I give them a month before the photos are all leaked out on the internet. I bet the freedom-of-information watchdog groups are all pacing ravenously around the situation, waiting for some leaked morsel to slip out.




Edited by The Zebu (05/14/09 12:52 AM)
_________________________
«Recibe, ¡oh Lucifer! la sangre de esta víctima que sacrifico en tu honor.»

Top
#24580 - 05/14/09 08:32 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato

Before we get too judgmental, let us not forget The Events that Got Us Here.


And, the inevitable outcome: The Reality of War

I don't know about you, but from my point of view, war can seem pretty chaotic. 'Right' and 'wrong' - irrelevant. Might is Right. Natural Law - Tooth and Claw.

All the same, when directly axed in an April 09 news conference about waterboarding and torture, Obama was (as usual) not able to give a direct answer. The full transcript can be found here: http://features.csmonitor.com/politics/2009/04/29/president-obamas-news-conference-full-text/

What he does not say speaks volumes. It is clear that 'enhanced interrogation' did, in fact, provide useful intel that would not have been obtained by any other means. If it did not, he would have just said so. At least I give him credit for not making a bold faced lie. He could have just said given a simple "yes" or "no" instead of dancing around the issue for 15 minutes.

Whats more, it would seem that waterboarding is just a teaser. We are 'just now' learning that 'other' even more aggressive methods 'may' have been used. Of course, now Obama is back peddling on his promise to get to the bottom of 'detainee abuse' and looks as though he may not be releasing all the details after all. Hmmm, I wonder why?....

What Would Patton Do?

Never the less, I would personally argue that we should close all of these detention facilities and we should not be taking any prisoners. Anyone still making Zyclon B?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#24582 - 05/14/09 09:10 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Fist]
love.light.peace Offline
Trolling Hippy
stranger


Registered: 05/08/09
Posts: 22
I'd feel ashamed if it was my country that had perpetrated such childish acts. I agree that it is part of the inhumanity of war but why did it have to be so gay?
_________________________
Looking for a ban

Top
#24590 - 05/14/09 01:11 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
I'm a "don't know, don't care" type of man.
The guys sitting on each other naked is bad? Is that torture?
Hell, if I had to choose between sitting around naked with other people or the painfull waterboarding, my descision would be made fast...

If that is torture, then the torturers are bad... VERY BAD. I know other things which have a better psychological and physical impact.


Edited by Dimitri (05/14/09 01:11 PM)
_________________________
Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

Top
#24596 - 05/14/09 04:22 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
It's a bit tacky I admit, a bunch of naked guys, some snapshots and you easily get the impression you are having a peek inside the dark room of the Blue Oyster Bar.

But I assume it is not too different from the treatment many got when being arrested by the Mukhabarat. The only difference that, in those days, probably very few lived to tell.

It's not that I do approve of torture but on the other hand, if I look at what is going on daily -ranging from cutting off body parts like lips or penises of kids in Africa to the silly stoning of girls in the Middle-East I can not come to another conclusion that their cultures could easily be described as retarded. It's not the violence that disgusts me as much as it is the sheer stupidity of many in those nations. The problem we Westerners have is that we would like to export our culture there but forgot how that is done. We like to convince them in a manner that is nice and friendly -civilized one could say-. And we prefer our wars to be as such too, but war has very little to do with being civilized.
War is about getting your goals at whatever cost required. It's not about collateral damage, it's about bloody mass murder. And maybe that is what this world needs, over the top behavior. Like the Romans did; you go in, kick their asses, adapt them to your needs, allow what is beneficial and if they at one point think they have balls again, go in and remove them. After all, this got us Westerners where we are, why not share it with them out there.

Btw, this picture is to me the photo of the decade. It's like some strange mixture of Jesus, a prophet on his box and a scarecrow stating "get the fuck off my field!" This is what we Westerners are/were about.



D.

Top
#24597 - 05/14/09 05:23 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Diavolo]
Bacchae Offline
Satan's White Trash Neighbor
member


Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 438
Loc: los angeles
waaah waaah waaaah.
i am just suprised that so many people thought a military superpower with an extensive network of covert operatives reaching into our early history did NOT use coercive interrogation techniques. is the public that naive?
every powerful society has/will/does use every means possible.

me old pappy used to tell me things that happened in The 'Nam that have stayed with until this day. Im sure at least one other member here has direct knowledge of similar situations.

politically I dont think obama should release the information. realistically, americans need to wake up. we torture people in war, and our presidents even occasionally have sex with porky interns.

Top
#24598 - 05/14/09 05:47 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Bacchae]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Indeed.

Anyways, we Westerners were the most successful violent bunch on the planet and all the progress we have is driven by our culture. Yes other cultures contributed too and many did follow our example after being exposed to us but if it wasn't for that violent expansion, we'd probably still be washing our asses in a creek and eating tree bark for dinner. We tend to forget that, or maybe even believe the Leftist doctrine that it is something to be ashamed about. And if we forget it a bit more and domesticate ourselves a bit further, we might end up being in that creek again.

D.

Top
#24599 - 05/14/09 06:17 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Bacchae]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: Bacchae

me old pappy used to tell me things that happened in The 'Nam that have stayed with until this day. Im sure at least one other member here has direct knowledge of similar situations.


To quote Sgt. Shultz from Hogan's Heroes... "I know nothinggggg!"

But Bacchae's right. We had "Air America" planes where I was at. You didn't see them, even though they were there for all to see. You didn't say they were CIA, although everyone knew they were CIA. You didn't see them take two suspected VC for nice plane ride over the jungles and only one come back.

The reason that the homoeroticism of Abu Grhaib shocks us is because we don't have the same sexual taboos for the most part, as most of the Arab world. But in the Arab world, one of the most stigmatizing things in the world is homosexuality, and the touching of unclean body secretions. One technique that TRAINED interrogators used was to have a woman question the men. Women in most Islamic cultures DO NOT question men. The women would wear low cut blouses and short skirts. Women in most Islamic countries DO NOT wear revealing clothing. In at least one incidence, a female interrogator did (or simulated the act) placed menstrual blood on the face of a man she was interrogating. This is a damning taboo for many men in the Islamic world.

Now... for the troops at Abu Grhaib. These were NOT specifically trained US Army troops. These were Reservists with very little training in prisoner care and even less in interrogations. The "torture" at the prison did not start until the civilian plain-clothes operatives (some say Blackwater and some say CIA) came to them and told them to "soften them up." They were given incidents of humiliation and of morale destroying situations that could be used. "Torture..." pretty subjective in this case, although a case can be made for stress postures, sleep deprivation, dog intimidation (used by tactical police the world over), etc. But these are not MILITARY techniques, for the most part, they are civilian techniques imparted to mid and lower grade soldiers, doing a job they were not trained for and specifically indoctrinated in the concept of following one's orders. Were they WRONG? I would say so as a professional military man who has been trained in the difference between a lawful and unlawful order. I don't know if they were.

Could I have found ways to torture more effectively? Hell, people, I have tortured... uh, disciplined... some of my wayward troops in legal ways that were more harsh. Is marching a troop back and forth in the hot sun for four or five hours in his dress uniform torture? Ever had to do it? Is making a troop lug four cargo tie down chains (each weighs 25-35 pounds) to aircraft in the hot sun or the cold rain torture? Ever done it? Military discipline can be harsh, even if applied to help a troop to become better. Ask any GI who went through basic training between the 40's and the mid 70's.

Was it the military's finest hour? No. Was it its worst? No. Was it something that could be expected? Sure. Throw young, untrained people into the company of experienced civilians placed in positions of authority, agendized and believing that they were there to teach the damned Arabs a lesson, and yeah. I'm surprised it wasn't worse.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


Top
#24602 - 05/14/09 09:59 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Jake999]
Nightmare Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: San Antonio TX
War is a sick thing pieces of led are shot at each other and bombs are made to destroy each other it is nasty and it is wrong... However all parts of war should be known and accepted for what they are.
Not only is this torture necessary but also the right thing to do but I agree they aren't doing it right.
_________________________
So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean,
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be

Top
#24605 - 05/14/09 10:26 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Jake999]
Fist Moderator Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Well said Jake.

However, I would offer a few caveats.

All of the Abu Gaib nonsense appears to be straight out of the SERE C POI ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survival,_Evasion,_Resistance_and_Escape ). While many US soldiers have gone though this course it is unlikely the Army Reserve jailers had any familiarity with SERE C techniques. SERE C is mostly reserved for Special Forces and other special troops with high risk assignments.

I would argue that the jailers were in fact acting without authorization, but were only using techniques that someone else had directed them to use in the past. It was little more than 'monkey-see-monkey-do.' In all likelihood, professionals from outside the DoD were in Abu Gaib using these techniques. The jailers were just 'funnin' with Haji to break up the monotony.

One thing that has always struck me as odd is how worked up people get about Abu Gaib. When one of these savages cut off somebodies head on TV you never here the same outcry. Why?
_________________________
I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

Top
#24613 - 05/14/09 11:36 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Fist]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
I think the main thing people get upset with is the stupidity of the images. It forces them to think.

Yes, this country has tortured, run secret missions, and abused way too many laws, but usually it was done more discreetly.

The jailers look in the photos just like the drunken tit flashing drunks at spring break. They all think its all good, it doesn't mean anything, and nothing will come back to bite their ass.

It is just the more photos and stories that come out, the more like stupid bullies we look, with not a drop of intelligence or common sense.

If necessary write up reports to document what was done and why, but photos, a resounding NO.
Shit, didn't these idiots learn anything from world war 2?

Like I said, if you are going to torture someone, do it right...

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#24667 - 05/16/09 12:09 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nightmare]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Nightmare
War is a sick thing pieces of led are shot at each other and bombs are made to destroy each other it is nasty and it is wrong...


I'm not exactly sure how one can make the argument that war is "wrong". I see it as neither right, wrong, good or bad - it just is. People are violent and greedy animals by nature so warfare and other types of fighting are a by product of that.

As to torture, well, all is fair in love and war - but war is hell. I look at these people much like the kid who apologizes for stealing money out of mom's purse. They aren't sorry that they committed the act, they are sorry they got caught.

Every country uses torture, whether it is used to gain vital intel, to demoralize the enemy or to sate the sadistic tendencies of the people implimenting these methods of "interrogation" doesn't really matter.

People act shocked that this happened, but deep down inside they new it was going on, they just don't want it shoved in their face. Much like how images of war are rarely shown on American television because the reality of warfare is too much to handle. Out of sight, out of mind.

The biggest problem that I see with using torture as a means of getting information is that you can't always trust the information that you get. If you subjected me to enough torture you could probably get me to admit to killing and burying Jimmy Hoffa, despite the fact I wasn't even close to being alive then.


Edited by 6Satan6Archist6 (05/16/09 12:20 PM)
Edit Reason: added last paragraph
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#25375 - 06/05/09 08:52 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
satipera Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Europe, Wiltshire
There are two issues that bother me about this torture, both the direct and the subcontracted torture. The first is the lack of accountability of the politicians at the very top who initiated this policy and then convicted a few patsies. The second is why if torture is not wrong is it all done in secret and politicians pretend that they abhor it?
_________________________
Do not try to hold a discussion with someone who is just looking for a fight.

Top
#25377 - 06/05/09 11:10 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: satipera]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Any politician worth his salt is going to say one thing, and do another behind closed doors. It's simply how they work. Hence their bad reputation. They present a face to the public that is honest and trustworthy, concerned about "the little guy", hardworking, blah blah blah, and meanwhile sign Senate bills to fuck over the country and put more money into their pocket.

That part is easy to understand.

I just think the methods that were used in these instances were wasteful. Torture should be done by pros who have done their research on breaking points and extracting valid information, not moronic Army personnel that take pictures of each other giving the thumbs up next to a hooded, naked Arab strapped to a wall.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#31148 - 11/02/09 10:12 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
frazier Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/21/09
Posts: 13
Loc: daphne,alabama,us
as a country i think we should all be ashamed at the humiliation in this homo erotica.i just think of the don't ask don't tell policy...while corporal "fag basher" sits back and touches himself to this.it would be more civilized to brutally torture(and probably more effective)these people.i honestly think all of this has gone to far.the war,our politicians,and the public's general willingness to look away as if it a patriotic homage to those who died in the wtc attacks...this just prove the distress and urgent attention needed to be addressed about civil rights,what ever the hell that means anymore.
Top
#31153 - 11/02/09 11:40 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: frazier]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Could you please at least try to type in a readable and coherent manner? Proper capitalization and punctuation help tremendously.

As for "brutal torture" being "more effective", I really doubt it. As has already been stated in this thread people will admit to anything if they are tortured enough and regardless if there is anything to admit or not.
_________________________
No gods. No masters.

Top
#31191 - 11/03/09 07:53 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Oh, and calling someone a "fucking queer" as a term of abuse isn't very civilized. I AM a fucking queer and didn't expect to find the language of the schoolyard on a Satanic board.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#31193 - 11/03/09 08:08 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Nemesis,

I decided to comment before I read the entire thread in order to be non-biased as to what the others might have said.

My major gripe here is that none of us know the actuality of these pics, the psyop reasoning behind this treatment or any other 'whys' as to what is going on here.

There is usually a bigger picture than what we are privy to.

Top
#31195 - 11/03/09 08:41 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Ankhhape]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
I agree, Ankhhape, but my original post was that of a sarcastic nature. As in, "If the US is going to "torture" detainees, at least do it with some class."

I really don't believe there was any real rationale behind these pictures, other than a bunch of cooped-up, bored Army men (and women) who had nothing better to do. Maybe they were trying to prove they were better than the Marines? I don't know, nor do I care, as it's really irrelevant at this point. Whomever released these may have had a stratagem to discredit the US military abroad, or it may have been of a more personal nature. Maybe these Army guys did some homo-erotic hazing on some new recruits, and one of the recruits had a chance to pay them back, with interest?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#31196 - 11/03/09 08:52 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: felixgarnet]
Perdidot Offline
stranger


Registered: 10/23/09
Posts: 8
From a fellow fucking queer:

It seems that Iraq and Afghanistan are hotbeds of tourism for combatants who know to make the most of an accountability-free zone. There's a wicked trend of sexual confusion, rape and slavery from the likes of Halliburton and their security ilk.

http://www.motherjones.com/mojo/2009/09/animal-house-afghanistan

Senator Al Franken defends ladies from rape, Republicans disapprove.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/notion/485424/franken_s_anti_rape_amendment

Dyncorp uses human beings for labor and pleasure.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/chi-0512270176dec27,0,1632557.story

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=DynCorp

*Laughs and wipes a little tear from his eye* I love my country


Edited by Perdidot (11/03/09 09:28 PM)

Top
#31197 - 11/03/09 09:06 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
Ankhhape Offline
Banned
pledge


Registered: 07/28/09
Posts: 99
Gotcha! I see your point here, I agree. Sickening degradations of life I would think, not a Satanic way to be.
Top
#31198 - 11/03/09 10:38 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Ankhhape]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
"Sickening degradations of life I would think, not a Satanic way to be."

Why not?

Some are born to serve, and need to be on their knees.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#31199 - 11/03/09 10:56 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Morgan]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
Yes, and some who stand degrade themselves by their actions.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#31206 - 11/04/09 12:27 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: felixgarnet]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
At Morgan's request. I shall expand on the above one-liner; thank you for not deleting it!
"Some are born to serve, and need to be on their knees."
I understood from the post eliciting this response that Ankhhape felt the actions of the military towards their prisoners were inhumane and degrading and that to degrade another was not a Satanic way of life. Now, I'm assuming the degradation to which he was referring was that of the prisoners; my remark was a reflection on the fact that those who are paid to regard others as less human may seem to be in a position of power but may actually degrade themselves by their actions and make themselves feel "less than" in the future - even attempting suicide from remorse. I know a former soldier who served in Iraq and now has terrible Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and feels stained by what he had to do there to comply with orders.
I think we have to be careful not to assume that because someone is in a position of secular power - be that a soldier or a nurse in a senior citizens' home - that they are automatically entitled to exercise that power to whatever degree they wish because the less powerful person is "born to" their status. Status changes throughout life, depending on any number of circumstances; age, health, war, misadventure and so on. That is how women in wars come to be raped - for no other reason than an abuse of power - and the elderly maltreated behind locked doors. The Satanic human may have an innate ability to accrue power but must learn to channel it appropriately and effectively, other wise they abuse their own potential for greatness.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#31255 - 11/04/09 09:04 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Ankhhape]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Nnnnnoooo, I still don't think you got my original intent. Degradation of others for personal gain or to exploit an enemy are certainly avenues that must be taken at times. Hell, it can be downright useful! My only wish was that the photos capturing the TYPE of degradation of these detainees wasn't so completely lame and homosexual. Why not get some pictures of breaking their fingers? Now THAT'S what I call torture, not mock-humping a towel head.

The one I'd consider to be the "best" of the bunch, is the prisoner they stood on top of a crate, put a hood over his head, and duct-taped wires to his body. They told him that if he moved, he'd be electrocuted.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#31257 - 11/04/09 09:20 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: love.light.peace]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: love.light.peace
I'd feel ashamed if it was my country that had perpetrated such childish acts. I agree that it is part of the inhumanity of war but why did it have to be so gay?


I get what you are saying now, nemesis and agree that torture may be necessary in extreme circumstances (while doubting the value of anything disclosed as the result of it - remember the Christian "conversions" gained in that way)?

Why is the term "gay" and "fucking queers" used here as a term of abuse? My friend who fought in Iraq is gay (and fought on the US side). This seems strange from a Satanic standpoint that sexuality is to be embraced by consenting adults in the way they prefer. Have those saying it so little respect for our homosexual and bisexual military personnel? These people are dying on our behalf. You sound like the Westboro Baptist Church.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#31265 - 11/04/09 10:39 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: felixgarnet]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
As previously stated, the pictures show naked men in various positions. In the Muslim faith the implied homosexually is a big taboo/no no. It is not done. Thus by putting the men into the homosexual positions you are in a way using psychological torture on them.

I believe we already covered the doubtful usefulness of information wrung out of a person through torture. After all we waterboarded some idiot more than 200 times and got nothing.

Some people get used to the pain or enjoy it.

No one here really cares who is gay or not. Its kinda past the point of who is gay. A kinda worse curse is to be called a poser or a christian. I hope you can understand that.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



Top
#31303 - 11/05/09 07:46 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: felixgarnet]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
The terms "gay" or "queer" are old slang terms from back in the 80s and 90s. It's not always used in the context of referring to gays, more like a synonym for "lame" or "stupid". Here in the US, those words are often used interchangeably. Hell, I use them myself, but I harbor no ill will toward gays. It's a colloquial thing I guess.

Why do you Brits call cigarettes "fags" then? That doesn't piss you off? If you're getting upset because US people throw around "fag", "homo" and "queer" like it's no big deal, how about the connection between gays and a cancer stick?
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

Top
#31304 - 11/05/09 08:27 AM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: Nemesis]
felixgarnet Offline
active member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 688
Loc: UK
The fag/cigarette thing is interesting, nemesis and I have no idea where the term came from, unless it was from the faggots used to light fires? Folk wisdom says these faggots were used in the burning of those found guilty of sodomy in the Middle Ages but evidence is not strong. Kids in the UK have picked up on the gay=lame thing, too and it's not considered acceptable in schools.
Back to torture . . . I have an interesting story to relate here about a paedophile in Britain who refuses to co-operate with the police. I'll post it later as (I kid you not) I have developed Swine Flu and every orifice is playing up.
_________________________
"Here's to Artifice!" - Anton Szandor LaVey.

Top
#31645 - 11/13/09 02:27 PM Re: I'm ashamed....(graphic content) [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
Room 101 Offline
member


Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 262
Loc: Scotland
As I’m sure the point of this methodology of torture has already been explained by Morgan, I will not bore you tears with information that has already been stated. Needless to say it was the best method of attaining the information needed; otherwise another “technique” would have been devised.

Say what you will regarding the aptitude of the military (American especial these days), but they certainly know how to get what they want, and in the current climate, all measure’s must be taken in safeguarding civilians and troops alike.

On the subject of torture/intimidation in general I am utterly for it. Regardless of claims that innocent people may be subjected to horrendous treatment unnecessarily, I still have a hard time believing that the world would be a better place in its absence. I am well aware that if it were my ass in a sling that my perspective would have changed and so too no doubt would my opinion. But what are we one and all without our current views and standpoints? My view for now is that the means justify the ends, and I prey to Allah that my current situation remains shall we say “friendly”. \:\)

As for the discussion on the root of the term “gay” I genuinely couldn’t care less (although I do intend to rant). Some would argue that the root of a word is only of interest to English professors. Within the context of the modern lexicon the meaning of a term can vary from country to country. “Gay” where I live simply means something that is subpar, negative or has no significance (ironic as the original meaning of the term was joviality and fun or “a good time”). Where I live we are also partial to the term “black”. Used in a sentence such as “that’s black as fuck”, more than any other derivation of the phrase, means in short that’s wrong, disgusting or generally unpleasant.

Every comment ever made could be scrutinised regardless of the original root of the terms used, the point is that the speaker gives the word its relevance, the context in which it is spoken gives it its power.
_________________________
"Nothing is your own except the few cubic centimeters inside your skull." - George Orwell (1984)

Top
Page all of 3 123>


Moderator:  Woland, TV is God, fakepropht, SkaffenAmtiskaw, Asmedious, Fist 
Hop to:

Generated in 0.044 seconds of which 0.002 seconds were spent on 48 queries. Zlib compression disabled.