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#2490 - 12/02/07 03:48 PM Arrogance vs. Elitism
hellbent666
Unregistered



Arrogance: –noun offensive display of superiority or self-importance; overbearing pride.

Elitism: n.
The belief that certain persons or members of certain classes or groups deserve favored treatment by virtue of their perceived superiority, as in intellect, social status, or financial resources.

Now I've been running into some serious issues with people on different Satanic forums about these two issues. As you can see they are similar but one is, in my opinion, a very negative quality and that is arrogance. We are a different breed all together but due to our philosophical stand point does that make us superior to everyone else? I don't claim to be one of those people that thinks they have the whole religion market cornered but I do know what suits and works for me. I consider myself a LaVeyan Satanist and have been for 8 years now. Now since I consider myself a part of the "Alien Elite" I choose to think that I have something that no one else does on a grand scale. I have loads of will power and tons of determination but I don't think that I'm better than anyone else because of it. A lot of registered CoS memebers think that you're only valuable to the church's eclectic members if you are of high social status. I'm basically a no body when it comes to how much money I make a year but I'm a talented artist and wonderful friend, doesn't that make me just as valuable? I think it does. But these arrogant fucks don't see it that way, they think that just because they are "elite" that that makes them able to be extremely arrogant on top of the fact. Isn't overbearing pride not a Satanic ideal? Isn't that teetering on the brink of pretentiousness? I'm pretty sure it is. Who are we (besides "our" own gods) to say that we are better than the next person? I think everyone has their good qualities and bad qualities and I pick and choose. If you have more good qualities than bad ones then chances are I'll like you more. I also have done some things in the past that I'm not proud of but does that make me any less of a Satanist then say a official member of the CoS? I don't think so. They say we're born not made and I agree with this to an extent. I don't think we abide by all of the Satnic principles when we are little but I think it starts to make sense as we get older. I think all of us have made some "immoral" choices but I don't think you can continue to judge people based on their past because people do change. So my question to all of you is do you think that a healthy practice of elitism is good for us but bad when you start to think you're the coolest shit in the world? Lemme know.

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#2492 - 12/02/07 04:55 PM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: ]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
For your clarification:

Satanism is a tool used to boost the ego. Yes, we are superior in intellect and sense above society.

 Quote:
A lot of registered CoS memebers think that you're only valuable to the church's eclectic members if you are of high social status.


It's merit, not inherit. If you're in a position that earns you low income, then that's your problem and you must face the consequences of those actions and accept the responsibility. The CoS isn't some revenue-raising funhouse, you don't have to join. Membership is OPTIONAL, remember?

 Quote:
But these arrogant fucks don't see it that way, they think that just because they are "elite" that that makes them able to be extremely arrogant on top of the fact.


Satanists are free to be who they are naturally. If that means arrogant, fine. If that means negative or positive, that's fine to. Seems to me that you just have a problem with all Satanists. If you don't like them, ignore them and stop wasting our valuable time posting your oxymoronic besmirching rants about how much you detest all Satanists.

 Quote:
I also have done some things in the past that I'm not proud of but does that make me any less of a Satanist then say a official member of the CoS?


No. If you have taken responsibility for those actions and faced the consequences head-on, and have discontinued those things - then congratulations on furthering yourself. If you have failed to discontinue those things, then you're a moron.

"You've walked into a vipers nest and now you're complaining because you got bitten."

You keep repeating your detest for Satanists. Then why are you defining yourself as one? Do I sense a hypocrite?

I would say your motivation for this brain-fart article is:

You are disliked by the majority of Satanists because they have discovered (or you've been to open) about your past. Is that their fault? No. Is it your fault? Yes. Stop complaining and grow up. You wanted membership, you were declined. Now you're attempting to fool rubes and besmirch true Satanism because you're crying like a child without its lolli.

I would expect this type of behaviour from my Son.
_________________________
Founder - Ordellani Studios

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#2494 - 12/02/07 06:41 PM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: ]
Equilibrio Offline
pledge


Registered: 10/21/07
Posts: 56
Loc: Missouri
One's elitism would be determined by the rarity and exceptional quality of their abilities and achievements. Can they do something that very few people can do (ie; Navy Seals, etc) or have they so finely honed a craft that they are unmatched by their peers?

You can claim to be elite all you want, but unless you are delivering the goods in an extraordinary way you are going to be seen as a fraud (and rightly so).

As for social status; if you are upset at not attaining the level that you want, then you have earned your despair not only for underachieving, but also for putting so much stake in the opinions of others.

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#2496 - 12/02/07 07:06 PM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: Ordellani]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
hellbent stop worrying what others think of you man to be more percise fuck em who cares what other satanist think of you or for that matter anyone. some people have no talent so they choose the path of the scholor,i myself am talented artisticly and have lived as the beast i am my whole life ,sexy as hell,manipulative,and the might and vengence to back it up i am the godamm devil to quote ugly kid joe,this is how you should view yourself you shouldnt care what some armchair scholor who needs a church to feel as if they are part of sompthing and probley got beat down his whole life thinks.like you i have done time but...i dont regret that one bit my chocies where not poor, i was incarecerted and learned alot, had i not made thouse choices then i would not have learned thouse lessons the only reson to view you chocies as poor is if you have learned nothing from it,why do you want that membership so bad? and keep referencing the CoS, be who you are ,if you changed who you are to fit the title of satanist rather then adopting the title as that is how you live you life, that may be somthing you want to look into futher,good luck

ha my post is all over the place damm mornings ,need more cofee:)
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#2497 - 12/03/07 12:33 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: rob_church]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
Seems like more than one of you has a bad-habbit of assumptions.

Go away.
_________________________
Founder - Ordellani Studios

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#2498 - 12/03/07 01:10 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: Ordellani]
hellbent666
Unregistered



This topic was made to address the differences between the two qualities. It was not designed so I could cry about my satanic experiences. I am not a hypocrite and I am proud to be a Satanist. I am not really giving two shits a flying fuck what these people think of me, I'm just trying to asess a major issue on these boards. I'm trying to put it in everyones face and differentiate between the two distinct different types of thinking. One (arrogance) is a completely detrimental way of aproaching social interactions and the other (elitism) could be misconstrued as almost the same thing or an excuse to be arrogant. Just because we're Satanists doesn't mean that we can be asses to people for no reason or because we "feel" like it. The point of life is to live and let live while not hurting anyone in the process. And don't we believe that pretentiousness is a "sin"?! So what's the deal then really?
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#2499 - 12/03/07 01:22 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: ]
undeadridinghood Offline
pledge


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
I wouldn't go as far as to say that arrogance is "bad" or "elitism" is good. I think that people learn that arrogance doesn't work in most situations, and that it is pretty easy to be blinded by it. I don't really think that it's a "sin" the way you are describing it, as something bad that shouldn't be done, but that it is more likely to harm you than help you. You kind of go back and forth between saying "I'm awesome" and "I'm no better than anyone else". I think that whatever you decide, you need to own it. I think personally, that there are a lot of people that I'm better than. I wouldn't rush to say that I'm better than everyone, but I could name names. It's fairly logical for a satanist to be proud of their abilities and accomplishments, and many of them consider themselves elite.



Also, one thing I noticed, you say "we" a lot.

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#2500 - 12/03/07 01:59 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: Ordellani]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
lol who the fuck are you agian? and what would my assumption be? i like how you clarified you position, how are you elite their matthew ceritly not your art i saw your site,perhaps you went the scholor path?
nawwww i bet its still the art lets look a bit deeper into that shall we?

Here at Ordellani Studios we have one main goal - To become the leaders in our field by producing work of the highest quality for our clients.

lol leaders of the field .not one peice of work, every link promising a coming soon or just talking shit but no work other then the boring ass design on the top and some minor tribal generic crap on the bottom, is that clip art by chance ? so really who of the two of us is the elite of their field here? seen my site by chance? when you can actully walk the walk insted of just talking shit then you can claim to be elite till then your arrogance is far from justifyed in my eyes..
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#2501 - 12/03/07 02:23 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: ]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1724
Loc: New York
The way that I see it is, that Elite-ness, is most often a self proclaimed ideal. One can be of any belief system, and feel Elite, if they believe that they know something that most of the world doesn’t.

Christians can feel Elite, to everyone else, because they believe that they have a superior knowledge of what life is truly about, and everyone else is lost or a fool. Same goes for Satanists.

I really like what Equilibrio said about delivering the goods. That is the key, that most self proclaimed “Elite” ones, fail to admit to themselves.
A person can believe that they are “Elite” or better then anyone else, but if they fail to deliver the goods, then they are just self deluded, wanna be’s.

The “goods” don’t have to be material things either, but instead being able to get out of life what one wishes to. If one is truly happy, and satisfied with their lives then they are already elite.
Such a person is superior to most, because as Thoreau said “Most people live lives of quiet desperation.” They are always “searching” for something that is just beyond their grasp, without quite knowing what that something is.

However, if someone deludes themselves into believing that they are “elite,” just because they feel that they know some “secret” that the rest of the world fails to recognize, yet at the same time this person is always miserable and unsatisfied, then they are simply foolish.
A person who is often suicidal, can’t sustain themselves without outside help, is in no way elite, no matter what philosophy they follow.

One example comes to mind.

Many years ago, I was part of a three man Land Surveying crew. There was myself, an older gentleman, and a young kid.
The kid had a college education, big dreams and nothing else.
One day the older gentleman was talking about life in general, and the young kid said to him, “Oh you are so ignorant.”

Now this kid was exhibiting arrogance, a false belief of superiority. I turned to him and said, “Who the fuck are you, to call this guy ignorant, you little piece of shit. This man is in his sixties, he is a war veteran, was able to raise three kids and send them all to college. He owns his house outright, and is able to comfortably support himself and his family, while you scrounge off of your mother who pays your bills, pays for the roof over your head, bought you your car, and is paying for your college loans. What the fuck do you have to show for your self? You’re the ignorant one!”
He was arrogant, because of his false belief of Elite-ness.

He was in his twenties, and actually started crying. This didn’t make me feel at all good about myself, but perhaps, I helped him reorient to reality somewhat.
_________________________
"The first order of government is the protection of its citizens right to be left alone."

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#2502 - 12/03/07 02:26 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: ]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
If you're a Satanist, then you forgot an important rule in Satanism. You're just another pompous jackass looking for another filler to winge about.

"Do not give opinions or advice unless you are asked."

Hypocrite. Need I say more?
_________________________
Founder - Ordellani Studios

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#2504 - 12/03/07 02:31 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: rob_church]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
Nice attempt to besmirch my name and the companies. Perhaps you could send that to our executive Head Programmers office in London, I'm sure it would be appreciated.

As far as I can see from your site, you have pseudo-artistic "templates" that look like they've been designed by a minor. Your art is ridiculous, and your petty character-attacks will and have accomplished you nothing.

I'm currently switching the servers for our site, and putting the portfolio up. I assure you, once you see the designs we've done, and who for, you'll fade back into obscurity once again. ;\)

Try again.
_________________________
Founder - Ordellani Studios

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#2505 - 12/03/07 02:34 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: rob_church]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
By the way, Rob, when attempting to besmirch my name and attack & insult me, please use correct grammar and spelling. It's like trying to read "Typing For Dummies."

\:\)
_________________________
Founder - Ordellani Studios

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#2506 - 12/03/07 02:48 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: Ordellani]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
ha i cant wait to see it mr ceo:)
till that day though your art/company is as worthless as your opion to me. till that day you are a fraud in my eyes claiming sompthing that you do not have

ha at you dissing my art lol templates please thats all me baby i think the reson you chose to attack me in the first place was my art, jelousy is fickle mistress isnt she:)

when do you expect to have it up by chance? i cant wait to see it


show me the money so to speak then we will talk agian but i warn you if its anyhting like your current generic garbage you will still be worthless to me and from your font chocie and lay out alone tells me it will be, but hey ya never know perahps you do have the skillz but until i see it your using a title you havent earned. ha ceo of what?
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http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#2507 - 12/03/07 02:50 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: rob_church]
rob_church Offline
member


Registered: 11/02/07
Posts: 194
Loc: alberta , canada
ha when one runs out of actual things to say its always the grammer nazis popping up to funny:) good way to show your colors matthew. ahh just rember it was you who chose to attack me i belive it ened with you saying somthing about assumptions and ended with go away out of the blue awww did matthew have a bad day in the real world and couldnt take it out their so he thought he would come on to a forum and try to prove his toughness how very satanic of you:)
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http://www.sintheticgraphics.com

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#2508 - 12/03/07 02:52 AM Re: Arrogance vs. Elitism [Re: rob_church]
Ordellani Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 20
Loc: Australia
We'll see. ;\)
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Founder - Ordellani Studios

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