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#25179 - 05/31/09 07:05 PM Jesus- This isn't what you think it is.
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
I've got my own copy of the satanic rituals and I'm beginning to read TSB, but there seems just a small issue that I feel I must call attention to. I grew up in a very, very, very christian background. Mostly southern baptist. I've tried for years to rid myself of the strictures of this, in my view, outdated religion, and this has proven very difficult. One reason I was so glad to find this online community.

Mr. LaVey seems to be a very, very intelligent person. I wish I could have met him and actually talked with him about this, but I can't, so I'll do the next best thing.

One thing that gets me about most of what I've read is the misplacement of a lot of anger. It seems to be mostly focused on Jesus himself. I'm not defending Jesus' so-called "divinity" or his claim that he was 'God's' son. That, as far as I'm concerned, is heresay. I wasn't there, I don't know. But, what we do know about Jesus is that his basic message, barring all the dogma and stigma that has been built up around him, is "wouldn't the world be a lot better of a place if people were nice to each other for a change?"

Like I said, not defending him. You want to attack his possibly eroneous claims that he was the son of god, fine. I don't really believe it myself. You want to attack God itself, fine. As far as I'm concerned he's got a whole hell of a lot of explaining to do, starting with the platypus. (seriously, was he just like, burning a doobie and the phone rang?) But Jesus himself, the man, not the son of god, actually seemed like a really nice person. As I stated before, his basic message was we're all here, let's try to be kind to each other for once.

If you seriously want someone to direct anger at, direct it at the people who have taken his image and put it up on a podium. The people who have turned his words into "holy writ", not the guy who said it. The image of Jesus (and Satan, and God, for that matter) has become so distorted over the intervening years between here and when he was alive that no one really knows what went down. Direct your anger at the televangelist who says that you must trust in god to take care of everything.

Basically what I'm saying is, if you attack Jesus (the figurehead of christianity) in the same way that christians have attacked Satan (and indeed anything that seems remotely out of their ken, then aren't you just as bad as they are. If I'm being an ass here, please let me know. (ye gods I hope I don't get banned for this.)
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#25180 - 05/31/09 07:41 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Fist Moderator Offline
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Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 1453
Loc: B'mo Cautious MF
Next, read "Might is Right."

The objection to Jesus is just the overall objection to Xtianity in general. Jesus is the front man for the movement so he will take the bulk of the slings and arrows.

In general, both books are rebuttals of the Xtian core beliefs of turning the other cheek and charity to the unworthy.

All the same, Jesus and Xtianity should be largely irrelevant to the Satanist. One should only give them a thought in as much as one's own life may be affected by the faithful.
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I am the Devil and I am here to do the Devil's work.

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#25209 - 06/01/09 12:49 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Fist]
Demosthysias Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 12
hmm.. I wouldn't say that he should be blamed/bashed for all the Christians ignorance, but he is a big part in their beliefs. he took all the glory for preaching the Lords Gospel, so now he deserves to take the criticism,hate and anger as well.
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#25210 - 06/01/09 01:03 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Demosthysias]
ceruleansteel Offline
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Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
hmm.. I wouldn't say that he should be blamed/bashed for all the Christians ignorance, but he is a big part in their beliefs. he took all the glory for preaching the Lords Gospel, so now he deserves to take the criticism,hate and anger as well


Rethink that because you just contradicted yourself.

According to the mythos, Jesus was God's first creation and became sort of a son/apprentice. On more than one ocassion he tells people, "No one gets to my dad except through me." Jesus was responsible for the evolution of Christianity. Prior to his walks and talks, Christianity was a very very different creature (matter of fact, in old testamentland, eating meat was punishable by death).

So yes, "Jesus" should be blamed for what "he" created. If I have a dog I am responsible for how it behaves. If Jesus is the father of the congregation - much like a father is the god of his household - then he is responsible for the actions of all whom he allows to carry his standard.

And going back to my post in the Atheistic Satanism thread, the core of Christianity is based in willful-ignorance, as has been pointed out in the very first book, Genisis. Please read the aforementioned thread because a lot of what you are touching on is covered there.

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#25212 - 06/01/09 01:33 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: ceruleansteel]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
Not to you in general Cs...

Followed the responses a bit, one shouldn't forget that Christ might be a "fictive" person, considering the fact his life has certain resemblance with other prophets from that "era". He was only picked out for being the only person to actually be succesfull and stay in grace by his "followers". (Others were succesfull also, but lost their credibility after certain events or by mistakes made..).

Christianity started as a Judean SECT. There were thousands of people doing the same work as Christ. Even few had the same title like him (savior/messias). An example of one of these is the person "Simon Bar Kochba" -->http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simon_bar_Kokhba

In short, it is more probably founded by a few people who got the luminous idea of starting a monotheistic sect (probably by the use of some drugs..). But as said before, Christ is considered a frontman and thus has the honour of receiving all the blows..

Altough I prefer to kick the pope's, cardinals and other religous people's asses. Kicking out the real hypocrits in the religion. But then again, who cares?
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#25214 - 06/01/09 01:42 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
You write as if Jesus actually existed. The fact remains that there is really no historical evidence that Jesus actually lived. Claims of him being the son of God are irrelevant.

That being the case it is not really Jesus as a person that is being attacked but the type of person Jesus was supposed to represent through the teachings we are to believe he passed on to other people. Namely the one you mentioned about how we should all just be good to one another.

To expect that of people is pretty ludicrous. "Is it natural for man to do good onto one another; and what is good?" Christianity views people as faulty (what sort of omnipotent creator creates faulty beings and then blames them for its faults in design?) and expects them to be something they are not, with the threat of eternal damnation if they don't cue up and get in line with the rest.
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#25215 - 06/01/09 01:55 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Tranceparent Sky Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 31
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
You write as if Jesus actually existed. The fact remains that there is really no historical evidence that Jesus actually lived.


Might I add that there is no historical evidenence of a "Nazareth" existing either, and the many contradictions of the bible that certain people overlook.
If you want to rid your mind of "God", then cut it out to the core and realize that it's simply horseshit. I understand where you're coming from though, having a xtian background.
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~Satanism~
The cream cheese to my atheistic bagel.

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#25217 - 06/01/09 02:23 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Tranceparent Sky]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3151
 Originally Posted By: Tranceparent Sky
 Originally Posted By: 6Satan6Archist6
You write as if Jesus actually existed. The fact remains that there is really no historical evidence that Jesus actually lived.


Might I add that there is no historical evidenence of a "Nazareth" existing either, and the many contradictions of the bible that certain people overlook.
If you want to rid your mind of "God", then cut it out to the core and realize that it's simply horseshit. I understand where you're coming from though, having a xtian background.

Nazareth lies in Belgium.. Province of Oost-Vlaanderen.
And I'm not fucking kidding....

(well, maybe a bit.. ) http://maps.google.be/maps?q=Nazareth&oe...=image&resnum=1
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#25219 - 06/01/09 03:18 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dimitri]
Tranceparent Sky Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/02/09
Posts: 31
I hope you're joking.

I meant that Nazareth in biblical times was not constructed when he was alive.
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The cream cheese to my atheistic bagel.

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#25221 - 06/01/09 06:37 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Tranceparent Sky]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Wow. I didn't think the convo would go that well. I was sure as shit I'd get banned. Since I'm not, here's an example of what I was saying: There's this rock band. The actual band itself sucks. No one can play their instruments worth a wet slap. The singer for this band is a really good singer. He does his thing, he's an amazing frontman, but the people behind him are just shit. Does the singer deserve to catch all the flak just cause the ppl he's with have no talent?

There may be many contradictions and omissions in the bible, but that doesn't mean the whole thing has to be thrown out. There is wisdom there if you're willing to hunt for it. Just like I may not agree with everything in the Satanic Bible, I'll still read it cuz there are definitely things I can learn. Also, the more you know, the better you can poke holes.

I didn't mean to propose the idea that jesus actually existed, but alot of people claim he did, they have "proof" and so on. If you're searching hard enough, you can find what you're looking for, but just because you're dissatisfied and angry doesn't mean you should throw out the baby with the bathwater, so to speak.(type...whatever)It may be ludicrous to assume that all people can be nice to each other all the time. I sure as hell can't. But, there's no reason to go around maliciously attacking ppl either. It all depends on the situation you're in. People are faulty, otherwise we'd have gone ahead and gotten a utopia going. That's never gonna happen. All the feelings we have are natural and need expression. Just saying that the feeling MIGHT be focused on the wrong point.

Props time-Old Testamentland! Fucking Classic! Made me laugh my balls off!
Dimitri, Nice Douglas Adams shoutout. Do I detect a Hitchiker fan?
Oh, and there absolutely was a Nazareth, and they rocked. JK:)
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25223 - 06/01/09 06:50 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
 Quote:
There's this rock band. The actual band itself sucks. No one can play their instruments worth a wet slap. The singer for this band is a really good singer. He does his thing, he's an amazing frontman, but the people behind him are just shit. Does the singer deserve to catch all the flak just cause the ppl he's with have no talent?


Yes he does. He is considered the leader of the band. The head honcho. The Cavs are Lebron's team, the Lakers are Kobe's team, and the Bulls were Jordan's team. Their success and failures start with the guy getting the attention. Lebron is now seen as the fraud he is, Kobe is still exhaulted as the king, and speak no ill of Jordan. Look what Axl Rose did to GNR. Ran a great band into the ground and everyone splintered away to just as great acclaim.

Who is taking the heat for the mess we as a country are in now? Bush. Even though he had a cabinet, advisers, a Supreme court, congress, etc. He played a very minor role in what went down in the last 8 years. He was just the spokesperson, or puppet head.

The leader leads. He also takes all the credit for the successes and all the criticism for the failures.
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#25224 - 06/01/09 07:04 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: fakepropht]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
The Bush thing got me. I have to agree. I don't know much about sports, but I do listen to GNR. Rose did fuck that band up tremendously. But that's kinda the reverse of what I was talking about. That's a shit singer and an amazing band. Black Flag might be a good example. Alot of ppl say Henry Rollins ruined that band. In reality, Henry wrote like, five BF songs, and those were with other members. He had almost nothing to do with the music, but he still caught all the shit. If ppl want to criticize BF, call up Gregg Ginn, don't send the singer hatemail.

The whole Bush thing is just because he's been the most blatant. To quote my hero, DNA- The president's job is not to weild power but to draw attention away from it. He and Obama will be stellar presidents according to this criteria. In just about everything else, though, they're complete and total bullshit artists. Our country was going downhill waaaaaaaay before Bush hit the chair. All he did was bring all the bad out into the light of day.

I bow to your argument experience sir. You have beaten me.

Wow, that one got really off-topic, but I'm having trouble remembering what the topic was anyway. The metaphor still stands, right? (Please prove me wrong)
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25236 - 06/02/09 11:28 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
I'd argue that people aren't actually targeting Jesus himself, rather it's the image of Jesus that they criticise. Let's face it, what are the chances of a man living in Israel with an Egyptian heritage being a blue eyed, white man? Nobody knows what the actual Jesus was like (or even if he existed) and so the actual person becomes insignificant, all that remains is the symbol of that person. The modern Jesus is not merely a figurehead for christianity, he's a symbol for willful ignorance and age old deceit.
I can't speak for everybody here but for me, while Satan symbolizes enlightenment, free will and power, Jesus represents ignorance, abstinence and weakness.

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#25238 - 06/02/09 02:28 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Saligia]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3934
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I can't speak for everybody here but for me, while Satan symbolizes enlightenment, free will and power, Jesus represents ignorance, abstinence and weakness.

in a way, this is the backbone of Satanism itself. 'Jesus' is really just the face of what is represented by the backwards religion that is christianity.

It is darkly amusing that we live in a society that champions the exact opposite of natural human virtues;even to the point that these virtues are represented by the face of evil itself. The only sane thing is to embrace that very caricature of 'evil'.

And here we are.
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#25239 - 06/02/09 03:28 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dan_Dread]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
I notice that you used the word 'sane'. It seems to me that no one really knows what 'sane', and 'insane' are. It's like Bad Religion said, Insanity is a full time job, in a world that is always changing. Insanity is a state of mind that you believe in sanity. Do you believe in sanity?

Besides, good and evil are just arbitrary words that all depend on your position and your state of mind. The example I was going to give is way to fucked up for even me to type. So I'll just leave that'un be. Just glad that I'm getting a wonderfully uncluttered view of Satanism.
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