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#25240 - 06/02/09 03:35 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Saligia]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
I got to agree with you man. There is absolutely no chance that jesus was a white dude. That whole thing was just probably come up with to make christianity more appealing to it's target demographic. What average, fat, white suburbanite is going to go to church every week and say prayers to a black guy? Or an arabic man? No way in hell. It has to appeal to the ppl you're selling to. Just like hot topic appeals to rich kids who want to be 'punk', but have no conception of what that word actually means.
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25241 - 06/02/09 03:43 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Scarlett156 Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
How I laughed to read the words "Jesus was a nice guy". In fact, he was a bit of an asshole. Look how angry people were at him! Even given a choice between Jesus--whose only crime that we know of was talking shit about authority--and Barabbas, a thief and murderer, the crowd was nearly unanimous in proclaiming Jesus to be the bigger offender, who deserved execution.

It's Jesus's "bad boy" appeal that has made the religion that sprouted up around his teachings so vibrant, long-lived, and brutal--in my opinion.

I'm not dissing you, OP, by the way--I consider this a good question, and in fact I pretty much agree with you that a reasonable and logical set of teachings has got a very bad rap because of the way it was interpreted by people who came after Jesus. (I consider St. Paul the biggest offender, but that's neither here nor there. I WILL stay on topic.)

As well, I do not care to become involved in an argument about whether Jesus is "a real person" or not--let us accept as factual that whether he existed as a human being or not, there certainly has been a lot of publicity about him over these last 2000 years or so. Perhaps it doesn't matter if he was ever a "real" person, ya know? So many people believe that he was, he might as well be. There's no arguing him away.

I also do agree with you that there is a misplacement of anger over the issue of today's Christianity versus Jesus. When looked at in multiple contexts, however, one begins to see that anger is pretty much misplaced most of the time, not just when it comes to religious differences. To break it down to its essential components: You cannot yell at your landlord, you cannot yell at your boss, you cannot get revenge against the cop who gave you a ticket--so you get angry at something else, right? Depending on your particular nature, you may, for example, go home and beat your mate or offspring--you may go home and kick the dog after a hard day. You may scream obscenities at a telemarketer who dares to call you while you are eating dinner--but you will not, of course, tell the landlord off. You will not, of course, take an extra-large dump on your boss's desk. (Etc.)

Placing blame is a favorite pastime of human beings. The Romans placed the blame for their failing empire on the Christians, with well-publicized results; the Christians placed blame for the inconsistencies and failures of their belief on pagans or heretics such as the Cathars; Islam blames Christianity (and by association the Western world) for everything bad that has ever happened since (their version of) the dawn of human history, and therefore we all, all of us Western people, whether we are Christian, Atheist, Satanist, Jew, or even Muslim--deserve to die a horrible death.

Where does the blaming end?

I don't know about you, but as far as I'm concerned, the buck stops here. They can't kill Jesus anymore, but they can kill... ME. Therefore I recognize the enemy not as Jesus--who I never had that much of a quarrel with--but as the person who blames me.

My dear NDawg (do I know you from somewhere? it seems I recognize your writing style): Jesus does not need any defense. People who want to attack him are, in essence, beating a dead horse. (Or, to use my analogy above: They are going home and beating their wife instead of punching their supervisor at work in the nose.)

Dr. LaVey is a very enlightened man who helped end a sort of dark age in Western thought. I am sure he will be remembered for a very long time to come.

My debt to him is specific and personal. Though he is now dead, I want to make sure that I give him sufficient props, in whatever means are available to me, so that his teaching doesn't grow flabby and diseased (like Jesus's teachings have).

If you have concerns, based on your upbringing as a Christian, that becoming involved in Satanism may involve a sort of disastrous hypocrisy on your part, try to keep in mind the story of the gospel of Matthew, chapter 4--Jesus went into the desert DELIBERATELY to meet "the devil", and their discourse, while not overly friendly, was civil. The famous writer James Joyce said that Satan is really only just "stories of Jesus's wild youth".

One thing I have noticed with people who have had these strict upbringings, and yet desire more than their allotted spiritual portion, is that they are unwilling to read and learn. For example, if you were to read the Gnostic texts of the Nag Hammadhi library, you would form a different, and probably more favorable, impression of Jesus than the one you have now. And what is the harm in doing that? Read other works about Jesus that are not just trashing Christianity, and try to form a more balanced idea of the person (whether he is "real" or not) and his teachings.

Also try to keep in mind that when Jesus was preaching "love" to the masses--in that time, love was a very (VERY) radical idea. Romantic love was almost unheard-of, certainly not considered respectable or useful. Love for one's fellow man was regarded as the ultimate in stupidity--for your neighbor is a rather ill, untrustworthy, and repulsive fellow, isn't he? Love him? Yeah: right!

No wonder so many people hated Jesus--his "love" undermined civil obedience and respect for authority; and, within a relatively short time (about 300 years), his religion supplanted the major faith of the time (not Judaism, silly butt--the pagan religion of the Romans).

Anyway, this is my usual teaching that I give when questions like this one come up. The bottom line is: Blaming Jesus for the excesses, errors, and shortcomings of the religion that grew up around his teachings is wasted time and energy. A self-interested and vital person does not keep beating a dead horse.

I hope this helps to answer your questions. If it has not helped that much, or if you have further questions--please let me know.

~~~ yours in Chaos, Scarlett


Edited by Scarlett156 (06/02/09 03:46 PM)
_________________________
"I can fling poo gooder than u"

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#25244 - 06/02/09 04:44 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Scarlett156]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Jesus is the spearhead of weakness, what he stands for is the antithesis of Satanism. I spit even on the idea that he is granted a status more worthy than despise.

People should really read MIR.

I'll quote the first part of Iconoclastic.

 Quote:
As far as Sociology is concerned, we must either abandon our reason, or abandon Christ.

He is pre-eminently, the prophet of unreason — the preacher of rabble-rabies. All that is enervating and destructive of manhood, he glorifies, — all that is self-reliant and heroic, he denounces. Lazarus, the filthy and diseased vagrant, is his hero of heroes; and Dives, the sane, energetic citizen, is his ‘awful’ example of baseness and criminality. He praises “the humble” and he curses the proud. He blesses the failures, and damns the successful.

All that is noble, he perverts — all that is atrocious he upholds. He inverts all the natural instincts of mankind, and urges us to live artificial lives. He commands the demonetization of virtues that aggrandize a people, and advises his admirers to submit in quietness to every insult, contumely, indignity; to be slaves, de facto. Indeed, there is scarce one thought in the whole of his Dicta that is practically true.
O, Christ! O, Christ! Thou artful fiend! Thou Great Subverter! What an amazing Eblisglamour, thou hast cast over the world? Thou mean insignificant-minded Jew!

Why is it that our modern philosophers are so mortally afraid to boldly challenge the ‘inspired’ utopianism of this poor self-deluded Galilean mountaineer, — this preacher of all eunuch-virtues — of self-abasement, of passive suffering? .
The sickly humanitarian ethics, so eloquently rayed forth by Jesus Christ and his superstitious successors, in ancient Judea, and throughout the moribund Roman empire, are generally accepted in Anglo-Saxondom as the very elixir of immortal wisdom, the purest, wisest, grandest, most incontrovertible of all ‘divine revelations,’ or occult thaumaturgies. And yet when closely examined, they are found to be neither divine, occult, reasonable, nor even honest; but composed, almost exclusively of the stuff that nightmares are made of; together with a strong dash of oriental legerdemain.

Through a thousand different channels, current politico-economic belief is dominated by the base communistic cabala of the ‘man of many sorrows;’ yet as a practical theorem, it is hardly ever critically examined. Why is it that the suggested social solutions promulgated by Jesus, Peter, Paul, James, and other Asiatic cataleptics, are accepted so meekly by us, upon trust? If these men were anything, they were crude socialist reformers with misshapen souls, preachers of ‘a new heaven, and a new earth,’ that is to say, demagogues — politicians-of-the-slums; and out of the slums, nothing that is noble can ever be born.


D.

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#25269 - 06/03/09 06:02 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Diavolo]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
To Scarlett,

"It's Jesus's "bad boy" appeal that has made the religion that sprouted up around his teachings so vibrant, long-lived, and brutal--in my opinion."

You have to be kidding me. Any Christian, Catholic, or etc will argue that this is a ridiculous idea to hold. They don't see him as a bad boy, they see him as the son of god. They see him as an icon above all humankind and above reproach. I think quite a few of the Xitian memes are still flowing within your mind to even write such ideas so that you can feel good and justify your current belief system.

"One thing I have noticed with people who have had these strict upbringings, and yet desire more than their allotted spiritual portion, is that they are unwilling to read and learn."

What The Fuck does that mean? NO ONE IS LIMITED TO ANYTHING EXCEPT BY THEIR OWN FREE WILL. YOU MAKE NO SENSE. If a person DESIRES to learn more, how are they unwilling to learn?

"Blaming Jesus for the excesses, errors, and shortcomings of the religion that grew up around his teachings is wasted time and energy. A self-interested and vital person does not keep beating a dead horse."

Jesus is the figurehead for a religion that is the exact opposite of what Satanism is. Jesus and his religion is about being a martyer, weak, and forsaking this life for the next. It fell into favor because it is easier to control a mass group of people if they believe that suffering now is okay cause they will get into heaven and never suffer again.

If you think that most Satanists should stop beating this dead horse, perhaph you are not as Satanic as you claim. If you allow stupidity to go unchecked and uncommented on, you allow the stupidity to run rampant and pollute everything then you deserve to wallow in filth.

Satanist know, this is it. You get one shot to do it all the way you want to. No remorse, no regret. You are responsible for your choices and no god in the sky is going to save you.

Oh, and dont go into how with Chaos magic you can pick up and put down any belief system. That only truely works if you can see things for what they are: The utter uselessness of religious beliefs during the time outside of a ritual exercise.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#25280 - 06/03/09 08:10 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Scarlett156]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
"It's Jesus's "bad boy" appeal that has made the religion that sprouted up around his teachings so vibrant, long-lived, and brutal--in my opinion."

I think you're confusing "bad boy" and "extremist nutcase". As has already been mentioned, Christianity began as a cult for radical Jews who were widely regarded as delusional and heretical once upon a time.
Don't forget that Jesus' crucifiction was not martyrdom (he spent enough time hiding from the Romans to prove that he was unwilling to "die for our sins") nor was he crucified for being a "rebel". Jesus was crucified for heresy, plain and simple.
He had the same "bad boy appeal" as Osama Bin Laden.

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#25281 - 06/03/09 08:46 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Scarlett156]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Well, that's kind of the point. Jesus today is seen as the son of god who never did a bad thing in his life. Jesus in actuallity was a rebel. He challenged the established social order and that got the ppl in charge very, very pissed. They had control of the masses, therefore they could spread whatever rumors about him they wanted. Take Mumia Abu-Jamal for example. When he went to jail, everyone was like, "yeah, that nigger killed a cop, he deserves what he gets." Now that we have such things as DNA evidence and forensics, it can be almost conclusively proved that he didn't. Yet,(if they haven't killed him yet) he's still sitting on death row, because he's an educated black man who challenged the fucked up things the system did, and still does. Though heresy played a big part.
BTW, you may know me, Urbis or myspace, maybe? You don't really seem like the h2g2 type. I've been wanting to get a copy of the Gnostic gospels for some time now, but I don't know of any place that sells it. The used book story never has a copy, and I'm pretty sure that Buds & Nubile won't have it.

"One thing I have noticed with people who have had these strict upbringings, and yet desire more than their allotted spiritual portion, is that they are unwilling to read and learn."

I think what you meant by this was that these people want to break out of their restrictions, but they either can't be bothered to actually go out and research or don't through sheer bloody-mindedness. They just get angry and fly off the handle when someone mentions it.

Thnx everyone, this'uns goin well in my opinion.
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25282 - 06/03/09 11:20 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
What makes you think he was a rebel? He was, if he existed, just one of the many soapbox prophets that wandered around during that period. There was absolutely nothing rebellious about him.

He was as rebellious as Jim Jones, Joseph Di Mambro or Marshall Applewhite.

D.

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#25292 - 06/03/09 05:45 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Diavolo]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Once again, I meet someone who can teach me something. Who are Joseph Di Mambro and Marshall Applewhite?
_________________________
I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25293 - 06/03/09 06:19 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
Ever heard of Google? Wikipedia? Of course, you could always go the old fashioned route and consult the public library; of course you live in the south (I sympathize, truly; I lived there for quite some time, and I don't recommend it to anyone), so that may not be the best option, unless you live in a large urban center where the libraries are less likely to have inches of dust collecting on the books from lack of use.

In general, we are not big on holding hands around here. How about you expunge your own ignorance for a change? There are people who get paid for proffering information; they are found in high schools and in colleges/universities.

As for the thread proper:

I believe culpability should be placed both upon Jesus and his followers, especially those who authored the gospels. Jesus planted the seed of the faith, and others cultivated it. His teachings are ideals that are impossible to aspire to, as they go against the very nature of our being. Many of faith would counter by saying that adhering to the tenets of faith are what separate us from "lowlier" creatures and our animal nature. Unfortunately, many have gone mad trying to live in this perpetual state of denial and striving for the level of perfection that seems to be demanded in the commandments. Others, like the clergy in Medieval and Renaissance era Europe exploited this while keeping mistresses and hoarding vast amounts of wealth. Jesus' followers, in their religious fervor (read: madness) insist on forcing their beliefs on others, ostensibly to save their eternal souls but, in reality for others to share in their madness. The pressure must be unbearable in trying to live according to the commandments; most crack under the pressure (I've lived amongst them for most of my life, so I know what I'm talking about; most of them are certifiable) or others go on living just how they please, scriptures be damned, while putting on the "religious coat" in public (you know, your standard hypocrite). The latter has the easier time, as they live naturally, with the exception of shrouding their baser activities in a cloud of obfuscation to avoid scandal.

I am a man; I see an attractive woman, and I immediately wonder what she would look like disrobed and what she would be like as a sexual partner. The Christian faith would have me believe that this in itself is a sin, that if I eye a woman with lust I have already committed adultery/fornication in my heart. (If only it were that easy ;\) ) This is a natural biological impulse, so, should I feel guilty? I think not.

I think the OP and others of similar argument are missing, in part, what LaVey is trying to convey. By attacking Christ, he is attacking the very foundation of Christian faith. In doing so, he is attempting to liberate those who, while perhaps living in a religious (read: Christian) environment, have nevertheless begun to question the articles of faith, particularly if they have lived in a manner that is directly at odds with said faith.

If you feel that Jesus has been unfairly wronged (you know, besides the whole crucifixion thing), then maybe you are in the wrong place.


Edited by Draculesti (06/03/09 06:54 PM)
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#25296 - 06/03/09 07:17 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Draculesti]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Being "In The South" is no excuse. They might be picking cotton outside of my window (actually a couple of miles from here), but that's no excuse for me to have the wool pulled over my eyes.

Christianity as a target is about as easy as taking down a dairy cow with a high powered rifle and a scope. And taking Jesus down with it is simply par for the course because THAT myth, like every other myth of omnipresence, does nothing more but work toward the mental enslavement of man and the hobbling of cultural advancement by superstition.

I don't give a damn if we're talking bad leadership or mentally deficient followers. Fish stink from the head, and all fish (metaphoric for god-based religious entities) stink.

Quite simply put, LaVey spoke of the Christian religion's corruption of the human spirit because The Satanic Bible was written first for the colloquial "god," whose contagion had permeated the sphere of commonality of thought in America. He spoke often of the foibles of "RELIGIONISTS," to extrapolate thought to universality. It would make no sense to pen a work in America that would speak against the stranglehold of a deity found in Mongolian legend and lore, although the concept that the delusion of omnipotence spawned would indeed be applicable to similar concepts far beyond the area of one's current focus. Slavery in slavery. The name may change from country to country, but the concept remains the same.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25302 - 06/03/09 09:45 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Draculesti]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Google would be a good one, but how well can you trust the info on wikipedia? I've been trying to expunge my own ignorance for the past few years. Like you said, living in the south, it's kinda hard to get any information that's not colored, either heavily or lightly, by christian thought. All the 'religion' sections in the bookstores in sc are filled with christian books. Like I said, that's part of the reason I joined this site and like it so much. There's alot of intelligent people here, and just by starting this thread, I've learned quite a bit. Simply by posting that there reply, your helping me learn more. It's just good to get a second opinion. All I meant by help was tell me what you think. And you're right. My OP did miss alot of points. I wasn't that familiar with Satanism before I joined this site. I had an idea, but had never had the chance to actually speak to a satanist. Even if it is just an e-convo, I find it's better to talk to people that actually believe what I'm trying to learn about. If I wanted to learn about islam, I'd go talk to someone who's islamic, not a christian or a jew. Same for judaism. I'd go talk to a jew. So thanks for taking the time. I'd also read the books, which i'm in the process of doing.(pisses me off so bad that I lost my Q'uran)

One of the things that drove me away from christianity, besides the horrible hypocrisy, was the fucked up things that have been done 'in god's name'. Besides, I'm starting to come over to the point of view that is mainly expressed on this thread. You people do make an awful lot of sense. I believe I'm starting to get a good view of Satanism, and it's very appealing. Just the logic amazes me.(I'm definitely gonna finish reading LaVey's books, and I can't wait to read Might is Right)
_________________________
I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25303 - 06/03/09 10:18 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
Dude, it's called "data comparison". You look up information on one site, and compare it with a dozen others. If any information is contradicted, it's up for question as to its validity. Simple as that. Use multiple search engines. Google and Wikipedia should not be the be-all and end-all of your fount of information.

Most members of a faith are just as ignorant of the true meanings behind their doctrines as the average layman. If you ask a Muslim why pork is haram, he'll give you some crap about Quranic verses, and how science has proven that eating pork is unhealthy, blah blah blah. Obtaining the answers to those kinds of questions takes some digging and actual research. Not easily found on Google.
_________________________
Nothing is sacred.

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#25304 - 06/03/09 10:51 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Scarlett156 Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
 Quote:
One of the things that drove me away from christianity, besides the horrible hypocrisy, was the fucked up things that have been done 'in god's name'. Besides, I'm starting to come over to the point of view that is mainly expressed on this thread.


That's really just a starting point--it's a decent starting point, but in a year or so you will regard such expressions as naive.

I also derive a lot of amusement from the discussion of younger people who are just getting interested in Satanism--they will profess to "hate God" because of all the atrocities committed in God's name. Ok, fair enough--but then in an hypothetical situation in which they are allowed freedom to act in whatever way they please, they will... commit atrocities. (Personally, I think a lot of the hatred directed at the Judeo-Christian God, and his scion, Jesus, is jealousy. You can say these guys are weak, but talk is cheap: Billions--not just hundreds or thousands, but BILLIONS of people worship them.)

The Judeo-Christian God is a brutal fucker. Don't ever let anybody tell you it's not! That's one big reason this cluster of monotheistic faiths are of interest to me, because of the suffering and horrors they inflict on ignorant humanity.

(I'm by no means advocating Christianity, by the way. I don't like it. I dropped it long ago. I just like to play devil's advocate, right?)

I'm also a strong advocate of comparative research. I suggest getting books through your public library, however, if you can. There's some amazing shit out on the internet, and a lot of good books that one can read online, but you'll always walk away feeling a little unsatisfied--there will always be that one book that you can find references to, but never the text.

My remark that you felt seemed to indicate that I considered you lax in your desire to learn was just general in nature--a lot of people who are brought up in a particular faith only know the texts of that faith and have little to no idea how to find other texts that might shed some light on things that confuse them. I didn't mean to suggest that you suffer from a lack of motivation or intelligence--I'm sure you have plenty of both.

Discussion forums are a decent way to learn more about things you want to know--for awhile. Most discussion forums on the internet are really pretty much just for socializing, though. Always try to keep that in mind--you'll avoid a lot of disappointment that way. Wring whatever knowledge you can from a forum, but avoid the social drama if you can. (That's just my advice based on lots of experience--feel free to ignore it totally.) xoxox
_________________________
"I can fling poo gooder than u"

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#25308 - 06/04/09 12:17 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Scarlett156]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
I also derive a lot of amusement from the discussion of younger people who are just getting interested in Satanism--they will profess to "hate God" because of all the atrocities committed in God's name. Ok, fair enough--but then in an hypothetical situation in which they are allowed freedom to act in whatever way they please, they will... commit atrocities.


It's not just "God" (in the Judeo-Christian tradition) but religion as a whole which has been at the root of many major conflicts throughout human history. I agree that this is a naive viewpoint, this hatred of God for the atrocities committed in his name; again, this goes back to my original point of placing culpability not only on Jesus, but his followers as well.

 Quote:
(Personally, I think a lot of the hatred directed at the Judeo-Christian God, and his scion, Jesus, is jealousy. You can say these guys are weak, but talk is cheap: Billions--not just hundreds or thousands, but BILLIONS of people worship them.


LOL. Jealousy? I think not. That is also a naive point of view. It has been spelled out that the disdain for "God and his scion Jesus" is actually as a result of the teachings of this so-called scion, which preach abstinence instead of indulgence and advocates the meek instead of the strong (among other things). BILLIONS is a gross over-exaggeration; there are more Hindus than Christians; hundreds of millions MAYBE, but billions? No. Satanism isn't about numbers; if anything, the fewer, the better. It's not an all-embracing sort of philosophy, unlike Christianity where all are welcome. Jealous of their numbers? No, they can keep them.

 Quote:

The Judeo-Christian God is a brutal fucker. Don't ever let anybody tell you it's not! That's one big reason this cluster of monotheistic faiths are of interest to me, because of the suffering and horrors they inflict on ignorant humanity.


Again, such a statement presupposes the actual existence of said deity. It might be more appropriate to say that the followers of said deity are brutal fuckers. There is plenty of historical evidence to corroborate that fact.

 Quote:
a lot of people who are brought up in a particular faith only know the texts of that faith and have little to no idea how to find other texts that might shed some light on things that confuse them.


Actually, many people brought up in a particular faith have NO clue about the texts related to that faith. Most get their knowledge of faith second-hand, mostly through devotional services (i.e. church), rather than learn for themselves through their own effort. That was often the problem in the South back when the territory was still known as the "New Frontier." They had traveling preachers, many of whom were illiterate, no less (also preaching to a largely illiterate congregation) who would come into each town every few months or so for services, and the church gathering, since it was so infrequent and brought together many people who lived miles apart from one another, was more of a social event than anything. This was, by and large, the extent of their education in faith.

Furthermore, most children are indoctrinated by their parents from an early age, and so they get their information from them, unable to read the scriptures themselves (the Bible, such as it is, is written in language that is above even a gifted child).

 Quote:
Most discussion forums on the internet are really pretty much just for socializing, though.


While that may be true for most, it is not for this one. That is the mistake that many newbies make when they come in here, treating the entire message board like some sort of yahoo group chat, spewing their inanities all over the place. This particular forum is for intelligent discussion/debate, some sub-forums being more serious in their content than others. There is a wealth of information here, mostly by the experienced members, who already have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom at their disposal.


Edited by Draculesti (06/04/09 12:34 AM)
Edit Reason: New stuff!!!
_________________________
The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

Homo Homini Lupus

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#25309 - 06/04/09 12:57 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Draculesti]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
After reading and discussing this point for the past few days, I kind of feel like we're beating a dead horse. I just have one question and one statement.

First, the statement: It seems to me that MOST(not all) of the people on this forum are just as set in their beliefs as any other religion. And just as arrogant about it. They stave off the idea of a god, A god, not necessarily the christian god, as if it's something that they dreadfully fear. The words "there is no god" are just as valid as the words "there is a god". So far, no one has been able to prove wether or not god exists, let alone jesus. Or even satan, for that matter. They haven't deemed to show themselves to us. The only information that we have about the existence of a god, or jesus, or satan, is secondhand at best. The truth is that we simply don't know. I personally believe that most gods came into existence about two or three milliseconds AFTER the universe was created, as opposed to the previous week, which they usually claim. Or, peoples belief actually gives rise to gods. If there is no god, none, anywhere, of any type, what happens after we "shed this mortal coil"? Reincarnation? Oblivion?

Long statement I know, ok, here's the question. I was just curious cuz this really confused me: With all the shit that's talked about jesus and christians(I'm not even arguing that they don't deserve it anymore, y'all have pretty much convinced me that they do. What with all the wars, the persecution, and the feeble-mindedness and prediliction for ignorance) what's with the link to a website on which you can pray to jesus to save your soul? Is that just tryin' to be fair? Cuz if not I think someone is really confused.(other than myself, and I'm pretty damn confused)
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