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#25310 - 06/04/09 02:01 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
stalker


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Most Satanists don't believe in god, because he doesn't exist.

It is not our responsibilty to convert you or make you understand Satanism. We for the most part, don't really give a fuck what you believe at all. It's not about the number of followers that Satanism has, its quality over quanity.

We for the most part think you get one shot and its done.
Your immortality is based upon the memories and acts you leave behind.

That ad is a fucking automatic google shit thing that needs to be gotten rid of.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#25311 - 06/04/09 02:23 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Quote:
First, the statement: It seems to me that MOST(not all) of the people on this forum are just as set in their beliefs as any other religion. And just as arrogant about it.

Might be, but on the other hand: no one can proove me wrong or accuse me of hypocrisy within "my belief system"... So yeah, I have a reason to act arrogant.

 Quote:
The words "there is no god" are just as valid as the words "there is a god". So far, no one has been able to prove wether or not god exists, let alone jesus. Or even satan, for that matter. They haven't deemed to show themselves to us. The only information that we have about the existence of a god, or jesus, or satan, is secondhand at best.

I never said "there is no god", but will only steer and state my answers to that point with well-thought over arguments and logic. Is there a god or not? I simply don't care, and if so: he's doing not that good.

The concept of god is like one bacteria in your intestines, you only need it to get a part of your body in order. If it dissappears it will be replaced by another one. If it get's too powerfull and take over your body, you might get sick and die. But at overall: you simply don't care when it's doing it's job.

 Quote:
If there is no god, none, anywhere, of any type, what happens after we "shed this mortal coil"? Reincarnation? Oblivion?

Reincarnation and other related death thoughts are just a mere product from a humans mind, created by fear of death. Most people have problems when facing it, some don't like to think about it and others start a whole religion about it, in hopes of aspiring immortality, afterlife, etc..
No one knows for sure what happens if we die, it's the last step we take. Some say nothing happens and you'll rot away, some say you get reincarnated,...
But the most logic and reasonable answer is just: "I simply don't know". Most things told about it are based on thoughts of fear. Here in Satanism, we don't think about it. We simply exist in the "NOW". Death is just another "world", as long as you are here everything is fine. Don't think about what happens when you die, you're wasting precious time.


Edited by Dimitri (06/04/09 02:46 AM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25312 - 06/04/09 02:28 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Scarlett156]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
 Originally Posted By: Scarlett156
in an hypothetical situation in which they are allowed freedom to act in whatever way they please, they will... commit atrocities.


Bullshit. One doesn't need that hypothetical situation to have the freedom to act in whatever way they please. Just by being alive we have that freedom yet only a fraction actually commit any atrocities.

You could say that it is fear of punishment that keeps me from killing all the people that annoy me, and indeed prison is a deterrent, but even in a world without rules or laws there will still be consequences. And if someone really wants to do something they will do it, and the consequences be damned.
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No gods. No masters.

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#25320 - 06/04/09 01:21 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Morgan]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Not 'make', but 'help'. And I'm not trying to convert. I'm here for the same reason that I bought books on wicca and a q'uran. I want to learn. Thank you, I think I'm beginning to understand. So, to go off topic and pick a name at random, Jim Morrison from The Doors is immortal because of the legacy that he left behind. He'll never pass out of our cultural thought. Isaac Newton is immortal because he will always be remembered as the lazy guy sitting under a tree who 'discovered' gravity. The actual "afterlife" doesn't matter because we don't know what it's about anyway, and there's no sense in worrying about something you have no control over, right? Thanks for explaining the ad.

To Dimitri-
Yes, I can't really detect hypocrisy in Satanism. In that, the fact that you don't get tripped up in dogma, many props. That's rare. But,(to play a possibly dangerous game)hypothetically, isn't it plausible that enough people believing in one being, lending their energy over the years, talking to it like it was actually there, might bring it into existence?
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25321 - 06/04/09 01:54 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Quote:
Isaac Newton is immortal because he will always be remembered as the lazy guy sitting under a tree who 'discovered' gravity.

I wouldn't really call him lazy.. his laws have a larger impact then one might assume. He wasn't the one who "discovered" gravity. He was the one who found a law that connected the earth with the heaven. Which was in his time in contradiction with the common belief.
Also made a huge contribution to mathematiques: thanks to him we have calculus which makes describing physic phenomens easier.

 Quote:
But,(to play a possibly dangerous game)hypothetically, isn't it plausible that enough people believing in one being, lending their energy over the years, talking to it like it was actually there, might bring it into existence?

Not in a literally way bring it to life.
But the idea might get a life of it's own if enough people believe in it and get their share out of it. And if things start spinning out of hand, you can be assured some WILL get hurt.

"It's all fun and joy untill someone breaks a leg, then it's fucking hysterical".

"The bigger the lie, the more the people will believe it" - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf
And too bad, it's true. Most religions nowadays are the evidence which state this.
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25322 - 06/04/09 02:09 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Saligia Offline
stranger


Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
"isn't it plausible that enough people believing in one being, lending their energy over the years, talking to it like it was actually there, might bring it into existence?"

I doubt it but it's an interesting idea. If only it could be used to create winning lottery tickets.

Honestly I don't think it matters whether a person believes in a god or an afterlife at all. In my mind Satanism is a religion/philosophy of life not death. I'm open to the possibility that we are reborn after death and it offers me some comfort to think that maybe this isn't the only life we get. However, this is nothing more than a possibility and therefore I intend to make the most out of my life.
Maybe there is a God and perhaps there is some form of divine plan for humanity, but unless this is somehow made blatantly obvious to me I prefer to think of humans as animals rather than divine entities trapped in flesh.
Oh yes and many satanists are very arrogant (myself included) as you quite rightly pointed out. This probably stems from being surrounded by imbeciles all day, everyday. I won't bore you all with a rant about this, but I think you know where I'm coming from.

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#25323 - 06/04/09 02:10 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
 Originally Posted By: NDawg
But,(to play a possibly dangerous game)hypothetically, isn't it plausible that enough people believing in one being, lending their energy over the years, talking to it like it was actually there, might bring it into existence?


This is the same obtuse and childish thinking that makes people think that the crap they see in movies is "real." It spawns the vampire wannabes ala Anne Rice's Interview With a Vampire, the dolts who think that the Matrix was real, etc. Just wanting things to be real, no matter how much you kowtow to a belief or wish it so MAKES it real? Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the thoughts that strippers might actually be there in clubs just waiting for you; they're all nice fantasies, and you can pray to them and talk about them all you want. You might even delude yourself into thinking that you've made them real. But at the end of the night, you're STILL going home alone, minus a whole lot of dollar bills.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25336 - 06/04/09 06:50 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Jake999]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
To Dimitri- I know he made a wonderfully great contribution to the fields of science and logic, I was making a cheap joke for example. To the other thing you said, read on.
To Saligia- I think I do get where you're coming from. I live with my grandma and every day I'm constantly bombarded with network news, televangelists, and christian thought. It's literally all over the walls. One of the few things that keeps me sane(if I can even be called that) is coming here and posing theories, discussing them with people of different modes of thought, and eventually, having them shot down in view of new information.

To Jake999- You make an interesting, and mostly true, point. But you bring up money. Money proves that hundreds of thousands, if not billions of people believing gives rise to being. What is money? Money is a piece of paper or metal that has no inherent value whatsoever, other than what people give it. Regardless of the fact that money is just paper, it controls almost every factor of our lives. It really does have a life of it's own. Why is gold valuable? It's just a frickin shiny rock. Why is it worth more than, say, quartz, for example? The economy is just as much of an illusion as god is. We all believe it, so it becomes true.
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25337 - 06/04/09 07:05 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
You draw to many stupid conclusions to try to validate a point of contention that is untenable. Money is not a belief. Money is a tool.

The reason that gold is valuable... and you SHOULD have learned this in school, is because it is a metal that can be widely used to make a variety of shiny objects that do not tarnish and in coinage, as it was soft enough to carry and maintain a stamped image... not much else. If derives its value only from its scarcity in relationship to other metals found in the world, and therefore it is hoarded because of its value in scarcity and utility, again, at first to make unique and shiny objects.

In later years, it was found to have applications in electrical transfer, in dentistry and medicine, in glassmaking, etc.

Paper is use because it is less heavy than gold and easier to carry, in Western cultures. The paper itself is a legal document... it is not a symbol. It too is a tool.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25356 - 06/04/09 10:47 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Jake999]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Ahh...shiny things. Thank capcom for Resident Evil. Anyway, don't go bringing up the school thing. I grew up and went to school in south carolina. We're what, third from the bottom....maybe? I may have graduated, but really, that diploma don't mean shit. As proved by my diction. Besides, there were only two teachers in the whole of the school I went to that were worth a damn, and I only got one of them for one semester in four years. Money is a tool, that I agree with, but that metal, the coinage it is made into, and the paper that represents it are just metal, round pieces of metal, and paper. They have no value other than what people give it. And, of course, practical applications.

I have the pamphlet for my grandmother's memorial service. I put great value on that piece of paper. That might make me a sad sentamentalist, but the point is that that piece of paper is more valuable to me than the money in my wallet. Especially since there isn't any money in my wallet. Maybe I shouldn't have said money is a belief, but the system and the economy are.

And how fucked up is it that such-and-such can't eat today cuz he doesn't have as many pieces of green paper as the next guy? (Fuck staying on topic! Let's see where this leads!)
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25358 - 06/04/09 11:08 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Obviously you learned little and have no problem making yourself look like a fool. And DON'T PM ME. I don't suffer fools lightly.
_________________________
Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25359 - 06/04/09 11:17 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Draculesti Offline
Impaler
member


Registered: 09/18/07
Posts: 325
Loc: Rockville, Maryland
 Quote:
Anyway, don't go bringing up the school thing. I grew up and went to school in south carolina. We're what, third from the bottom....maybe? I may have graduated, but really, that diploma don't mean shit. As proved by my diction. Besides, there were only two teachers in the whole of the school I went to that were worth a damn, and I only got one of them for one semester in four years.


Hmm...as an excuse that only goes so far. "Responsibility to the responsible." If you couldn't take your education into your own hands when others were incapable of doing so, that is your problem. Fuck, I would say that what I learned in school and what I learned on my own is split right down the middle, 50/50. It is a well-known fact that they do not teach you everything in school. It is your responsibility, or at least your parents', to fill in the gaps.

By all means, if those green pieces of paper are so useless, feel free to send it all my way; I am sure I can find a use for it where you cannot ;\)

 Quote:
And how fucked up is it that such-and-such can't eat today cuz he doesn't have as many pieces of green paper as the next guy? (Fuck staying on topic! Let's see where this leads!)


As Guns 'n' Roses said, and I quote: "Welcome to the jungle." That is the way things are. One can either let it defeat them, or do something about it. Those who can will rise above; those who cannot will stay on the street or at McDonald's. Contrary to what our founding fathers may have thought, all men were NOT created equal.


Edited by Draculesti (06/04/09 11:18 PM)
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The Holy Trinity: Me, Myself, and I.

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#25364 - 06/05/09 02:36 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3113
 Quote:
To Dimitri- I know he made a wonderfully great contribution to the fields of science and logic, I was making a cheap joke for example. To the other thing you said, read on.

What should I read on?
 Quote:
Anyway, don't go bringing up the school thing. I grew up and went to school in south carolina. We're what, third from the bottom....maybe?

You have an internet connection, which means you can have a ride on the world largest information service.
Whether or not your education was crap, there is a load of info at your fingertips. How about looking things up in which you are interested or think you lack? There are alot of ways to improve skills.

Take Draculesti as an example to see what a few years of guitar dedication might bring..

 Quote:
Maybe I shouldn't have said money is a belief, but the system and the economy are.

Like Jake said, money is a tool.An economy and "system" might be synthetically created, but they are neccesary to maintain human society. Without it, you'll have a bloody hard time. Everything around you is made and achieved by money.

The system and economy are just other tools (mechanisms in fact) to keep the machine "human society" at work.


Edited by Dimitri (06/05/09 02:37 AM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25428 - 06/05/09 11:02 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dimitri]
NDawg Offline
stranger


Registered: 04/05/09
Posts: 30
Loc: Da South
Alright, this is getting a little pointless. I started this thread to find the answer to what I thought was a totally valid question based on my lack of knowledge and lack of contact with true satanists who actually understood the religion.(belief system? Anyway...) I think I got my answer about halfway through page two, so I probably won't be visiting this forum any more. Thanks to the people who actually helped me learn something. To the others, feel free to flame me all you like now.
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I live to be proved wrong. Help expunge my ignorance.

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#25460 - 06/06/09 03:00 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: NDawg]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
 Quote:
I grew up and went to school in south carolina. We're what, third from the bottom....maybe? I may have graduated, but really, that diploma don't mean shit.


Not to pull this thread off-topic, but that's no excuse. SC is like ten states higher than Arkansas and I have a genius IQ and am competent to debate on many topics. If a person is ignorant, they have no one to blame but themselves.

I have read a lot of your posts and I think that the problem is not necessarily WHAT you think, but HOW you think. You seem to want to take the easy way out a lot and blame any other person or entity you can in order that you are not accountable for your own situation or ideals. That and that alone will get you into trouble here.

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