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#25601 - 06/13/09 04:26 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Savage]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
Firstly I respect Christ, but as my enemy. I would not cut of his head and wear it as my wall décor.
My father whilst not a christian, though very spiritual, thinks jesus message was a very good one. I think its unnatural and just impossible. The good Christ did outwieghs the bad he instigated eg. Catholic Church, holy war, dark ages.

If you go to evilbible.com they have some passages from the bible that Jesus words (in red \:D if you read a good bible) and they are particularly mean and a little aggressive. So maybe Jesus wasnt the nice guy.

Anyways, Christ is not son of god but was simply a man with a new philosophy.
Virgin birth: The hebrew word for virgin in ancient times simply means woman who isnt married. In the running from the roman census Joseph and mary didnt get married and when they arrived at Bethlehem mary gave birth. No magic. The romans cant translate for shit and the englich were too stupid to look past the seemingly amazing words. Now we are meant to believe this stupidity that is a virgin birth.

Walk on Water: The hebrew literally translates to 'a walk on water'. they mean a wharf. Theres no magic, jesus was simply walking on a wharf or pier. The romans translated it and when the english got it they say wow thats really cool and started making it more prominent in the bible. There is no magic in mistranslation

I personally think that Jesus is a massive fake and agree with the position Muslims have of him as a prophet in their religion. Jesus was just a guy with an idea that was contrary to human nature and was just a 'utopian unreality'. His followers were retards that never bother to think 'what would jesus do' and CoS they are stupid they think simply kill the problem which results in counter-productivity, death, wars etc etc.

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#25608 - 06/13/09 12:11 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
It has been mentioned, but is worth re-mentioning - There is no verifiable evidence that the jesus of the bible ever actually existed at all.

All these crazy theories about who the REAL jesus was are really just so much hot air.
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#25620 - 06/13/09 10:42 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
Just to play devil's advocate, Dan, I'd love to see you back that up.
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#25623 - 06/13/09 11:43 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Octavius]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well, being that my claim is the lack of verifiable evidence in favor of the proposition that jesus christ in fact lived, you are in fact asking me to prove a negative.

I can't really bring a 'lack of evidence' to the table.

All it would take would be one piece of solid evidence for the pro side to refute this claim. As I have yet to encounter such evidence, there is little else I can say on the matter.


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#25626 - 06/14/09 02:37 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
I agree here, the evidence needs to be provided about Jesus being a real person first, then one can eventually provide evidence for him not being one. If one starts to assume there is some truth to this literary Jesus, one is already nibbling the cheese of the hidden mousetrap.

Personally I am convinced he did not exist. Of course there is always a probability he existed as described in the bible but it is of about the same order as Harry Potter being a real person as defined in his lore.

It is interesting to note that the Dead Sea scrolls contain one mentioning Melchizedek as a divine being, called Elohim whole will proclaim the Day of Atonemen, atone for the people who are predestined to him and judge the people. He also was born out of a Virgin according the book of Enoch. He also makes his appearance in the NT. This specific scroll dates around the 1st century BCE.

It is very likely Jesus was the Harry Potter of his day.

D.

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#25637 - 06/14/09 11:29 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Diavolo]
FromGehenna Offline
pledge


Registered: 02/24/09
Posts: 53
When you mention about Jesus being a real person, in what kind of form do you mean? if i could point to a legitimate source that talks of a man known as Yeshua Ben Shlomo (Jesus son of Solomon) who was seen as a rabble-rouser and lunatic and scourged by the Romans, would that count? Or perhaps the person that Roman scribe Josephus talked about who existed EARLIER than the man above that i mentioned? Yes, there are some sources that believe the Jesus of the New Testament is infact a compilation of political figures from around the same time, give or take a couple of decades...
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#25639 - 06/14/09 12:18 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: FromGehenna]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
If you base yourself upon Josephus, know who did the manual copying of his books. Never trust a religious devotee when he got his hands upon history. Josephus account is likely forged although one can't provide definite evidence on it, only reasons for a high probability.

Yeshua is a pretty common name and him being a rabble-rouser and lunatic and thus scourged is about the same as in a couple of centuries we finding evidence of a Harry living in England with a foster family. I assume more Yeshuas got scourged, after all the area was occupied by Romans, and what we also don't know is if this factual evidence (I'd like to see a valid source for it) is what the Jesus story is based upon or whether it is historical evidence for the real Jesus.

Jesus to me is mythological and unless I am provided undisputed evidence, I stand my ground.

D.

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#25773 - 06/19/09 10:21 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Diavolo]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I think the assumption he didnt exist is ludicrous. They have a complete record of his life, let alone all the other records of other peoples lives in the bible.
I dont disclude the possibility there were alot of jesus' around at the time and they may have been different but I dont think that at times such as these they could conjure up a story this in depth. All stories at this time were legends or real stories eg. Gilgamesh (existent but turned into legend story) Odyseus (we concluded there was a battle at troy so another legend)

Jesus, I definitely believe to have been real because to say he wasnt would be like saying Socrates never existed either for all we have of him is plato's records of him. He was really just a smart man who did a few magic tricks and used them to give strength to his philosophy of peace etc etc and his story was turned into a fantasy legend but legends are always based on some fact, and all stories back here were mostly based on true events.

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#25779 - 06/19/09 12:25 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3138
 Quote:
I think the assumption he didn't exist is ludicrous. They have a complete record of his life, let alone all the other records of other peoples lives in the bible.
I don't disclose the possibility there were alot of jesus' around at the time and they may have been different but I don't think that at times such as these they could conjure up a story this in depth. All stories at this time were legends or real stories eg. Gilgamesh (existent but turned into legend story) Odyseus (we concluded there was a battle at troy so another legend)

His in dept-life and details CAN be made up. If you open up any kind of book telling the life of someone fictive you bloody will have any detail of that person.

Even so, there have been council to let the story "fit". Even so his "written life in detail" contradicts itself from time to time. If you know the bible you'd clearly see contradictions in certain actions described by the different apostles. Is it because it's from their point of view? Might be, yet if it was so: why does the gospel of Judas gives another take on the C's life? (I need to mention that this gospel hasn't been modified by time since the "recent" discovery of it, thought to be "destroyed" by time after councils have been chosen which gospel would fit best to make a book and establish a society whom would please the new religion.

My own written response might be vague so I'll include some words which should clear a few things up.

Council of Nicea (about Christ receiving his godly powers voted by cardinals... Yes they voted if he should receive godlike powers or be human-like.., and many other things related to godhood and powers. )

Council of Antiochië (Here they formed the bible by choosing between thousands of gospels, to finally take out the ones we now know, the NT probably has been formed during this council. Council was held in 324 in honour of the opening of the "golden church" of Constantin the great.Also the apolistic cannons were written here (these handle about excommunication, relations with Jews and the formal rules and laws of bishops.) )

Between the year 49 and now about 51 council have taken place with the most recent in 1962/1965, each one is worthwhile to know and see the hypocrisy and changes made by the church to pass on the lie. The 2 I told about are the best examples.
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#25784 - 06/19/09 01:41 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

I think the assumption he didnt exist is ludicrous. They have a complete record of his life, let alone all the other records of other peoples lives in the bible.

If you accept the new testament as a credible historical document you just haven't done your homework.
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#25788 - 06/19/09 02:25 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dan_Dread]
icu4whatur Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/14/08
Posts: 21
There is a great deal of convincing evidence that Jesus never existed. The most notable researcher in the field is a lady named Acharya S., and her most well known book is called "The Christ Conspiracy", which you can read a good bit of Here

And here is her Website

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#25795 - 06/19/09 03:36 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: icu4whatur]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
And what if Jesus DID exist? Would it somehow mean that everything he said and did was somehow imbued with a "holy spiirt?" I can assure you that Marshal Appelwhite existed. He said a lot of things that made the followers of his Heaven's Gate community fanatically follow him. They killed themselves for him to go to the flying saucer trailing secretly behind the Hale-Bopp comet.

I can also assure you that Jim Jones existed. He said a lot of things that made the followers of his People's Temple community fanatically follow him. They killed themselves for him in the jungles of Guyana.

I can also assure you that Liz Claire Prophet existed. She said a lot of things that made the followers of her Summit Lighthouse group fanatically follow her. They sold everything they had to finance her paranoid prophecies and move to Montana to live underground to avoid the nuclear holocaust she assured them was coming in March or April of 1990.

I can also assure you that I could go on and on with people who DID exist, all quite certain of their own lock on godliness, all with fanatic followers, and all equally delusional, in the long run. Reality does not equate to wisdom, nor does it have any connection to one's claims of spirituality. Physical existence owes only to the fertilization of an egg by a sperm, the carrying of the fetus to birth, and the drawing of a breath by that infant.

So, what IF Jesus existed? It makes no difference in the fact that we, as Satanists, reject the dogma that accompanies his dubious deification and spurious accounts of "miracles." Ancient texts are filled with equally fantastic accounts of others with whom the gods shared "special favors." Jesus is but one whose legend was enhanced and promoted with more zeal and better PR.
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#25799 - 06/19/09 07:09 PM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Jake999]
Dan_Dread Offline
stalker


Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3887
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
You make a very important point, Jake. Jesus' existence really makes no difference whatsoever insofar as MY Satanism is concerned.

I am opposed to everything the jesus character stands for, and if the god of the bible were to actually exist, based on what is written of it I would most certainly have to oppose it with every fiber of my being.

A god sitting out there in the cosmos, but not of it wouldn't matter because its followers would still be here meddling and fouling things with their dirty anti-human ideas.
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#25815 - 06/20/09 05:06 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Isolation Offline
New Age Nut - Banned
lurker


Registered: 06/19/09
Posts: 4
Jesus cannot be blamed for what christianity is today...it would be totally ridiculous.
Jesus was the Son of God,actually the God it/her/himself because we are ALL God.Everything in "Our" universe is God.
Our universe is pure energy in a form of vibration,everything in our universe is one and whole,and has always been one.
The difference is only different frequency of vibration.
We are all expressions,thoughts and ideas of God.
Jesus was "teaching" Unconditional Love,respect all life without any condition,whether he is murderer or rapist.
Hating someone is equally hating yourself because everything is you and you are everything.
Each one of us without any exception creates our own reality.
Everything in our universe is always in perfect harmony and balance...which is the only way.It is known that energy influences energy,and everything is energy,including thoughts and imagination.
So when a car crashes into other car is 1 example of energy influencing energy,excactly the same goes for thinking and thoughts,they influence the energy around you,so energy of a car and energy of your thought is no different in reality.
Because the universe/god is always in perfect harmony and balance without any exception,we create our own reality with our thoughts,we create all the murderers that exist today by "thinking" about murdering,and since the universe/god never fails to give what we want so it manifests more murdering in our reality when our thoughts influence everything around us creating our reality.So when people think about murdering,there will always be murdering,when people think about stealing,there will be stealing.The best thing is simply to let go of the "past" if you want to have a different future.That's where "forgiving" comes in,you cannot make progress towards "peace" if you have war in your thoughts,because your reality is what you think.So for example when you get a bill,and you're watching the bill,you tell your subconscious mind that right now your reality is that you have a bill,right at that moment you send out vibrations to the universe and universe responds to your thoughts by starting to influence energy around you according to your energy ending up manifesting more and more bills that will be your reality.Same goes for anything in life including violence.So when people think that we have War all over the world and the more power we put in it the more universe starts to manifest war as our reality because it is what we think.And that also is excactly what "praying" means.As the universe is always in perfect balance "Karma" system comes in,by each action we make we send out unique vibration,positive of negative...so to keep the universe in balance,everything that we do,we get back.But...this is absolutely not a "punishment" system or to justify anyone,God does not Punish or Favor anyone...the universe doesn't even define Murdering as a "bad deed" and saving someone's life as a "good deed",in the universe there is only Energy in the form of different vibration.
So who was Jesus? Energy,God and the Universe like we all are.
But he was just on the "higher" level of "realisation" of the illusion of the 5 physical senses and the ego.There can be alot more "people" like him in the universe.
Our physical reality looks so real because since our birth on this world we state our subconscious mind what we see through our senses,and this is getting more and more powerful as "time" goes on.Also we get influenced by other's people thoughts.


Edited by Isolation (06/20/09 05:12 AM)

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#25816 - 06/20/09 05:44 AM Re: Jesus- This isn't what you think it is. [Re: Isolation]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
What a pile of steaming unsubstantiated New Age bullshit.

Please, define "vibration", "frequency", and especially "energy". You might be shocked when you realize how in conflict with real science your (mis-)use of pseudoscientific jargon actually is.

 Originally Posted By: Isolation
Hating someone is equally hating yourself because everything is you and you are everything.

Actually, love and hatred are both inherent parts of the human condition. Being pure "unconditional love" is not only humanly impossible, it is a complete caricature of human nature.

And also, if everything is "god", then by definition that includes hatred as well as love, violence as well as compassion, greed and selfishness as well as generosity.

But no, your inconsistent hippy philosophy won't go to logical conclusions.


I'll let you get back to your tree-hugging, pyramid-power-buying, Louise Hay-loving, crystal worshipping, bangle-jangling, mushroom chomping and tofu-eating masturbating to the Celestine Prophecy ways.

I'll take a clear-headed view of reality and human nature thank you very much, not some regurgitated New Age dogma straight out of some tacky paperback written specifically to make a mint off the gullible.

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