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#3497 - 01/15/08 04:12 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: SSSnake]
Satanic Zealot Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
I think that marijuana is the best one. I tried Salvia as well and all it did was make me senseless and angry. For marijuana all it does is relaxes me and makes sleeping much easier. So yeah there are substitutes out there but hey, are any of them really as good as ol' fashion marijuana? Hash is good too lol.
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#3536 - 01/16/08 10:51 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: Satanic Zealot]
Octavius Offline
member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 433
Loc: Minneapolis
Legalize it. And prostitution. Regulate it all and tax the hell out of it. Watch the National Debt get paid off in a week.
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#3537 - 01/16/08 10:59 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: Octavius]
Satanic Zealot Offline
stranger


Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
If they did that they'd be loaded. It would probably be one of the best financial decisions they can make.
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#3551 - 01/17/08 10:57 AM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: Octavius]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Loc: UK
 Originally Posted By: Octavius
Legalize it. And prostitution. Regulate it all and tax the hell out of it. Watch the National Debt get paid off in a week.


Sounds like the Netherlands to me.
It would be interesting to research the effects this has had on the Dutch economy.
Although the Dutch government has been closing down coffeeshops over the last years.

As far as drug dealers are concerned... I get the impression that governments are more concerned with fighting their tax-free source of income than the substances themselves.

However, the recent mental health scares surrounding Skunk are likely to act as a major obstacle to the legalisation of cannabis.

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#3572 - 01/17/08 07:01 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: Meq]
foras Offline
stranger


Registered: 12/24/07
Posts: 29
FLASH!!!! indoor grow special''''''''''LIGHTING,,,,,,
SEED'S"""""""HYDROOOOOOO,,,,,LOL Just kidding.


We sure well might realizes that legal provability is very unlikely. \:\(


Edited by foras (01/17/08 07:09 PM)
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#3632 - 01/21/08 06:55 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: foras]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
I find it very odd that the Government outlaws a legal plant thats been here since the dawn of time, that has no side effects that I'm aware of besides eating everything in sight,,, and I haven't ever met anyone dying from smoking bud, only the ones that smoked chemical filled cigarettes that they legally sell. It seems that anything that is all natural and doesn't kill you is illegal. Guess they are making more money from having bud illegal then being legal.
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#3633 - 01/21/08 06:56 PM Re: Legal smoking herbs [Re: Noc]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Have you ever met an angry pot head???????? well only when they run out lol
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#3736 - 01/31/08 03:06 PM Pot - harmless?? [Re: Noc]
Meq Offline
Banned
active member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 861
Loc: UK
I've met a number of paranoid pot heads, especially on strong skunk (and usually drunk as well). And yes, they do get angry when they get illusions of being threatened. I've seen it many times (though pot is mild in this regard compared to hard drugs and heavy alcohol abuse).

Don't be fooled by claims that pot is 'not addictive'. It isn't strictly a chemical addiction, but some definitely get pretty hooked psychologically (much like with gambling, porn, shopping etc). Tobacco in spliffs is also chemically addictive.

I've met a few who claim they can't get to sleep or wind down without a J. (Yet long-term heavy pot use increases anxiety).
Some would steal for their fix, no matter how otherwise 'out of character' this is.

I've met some with exceptionally bad memory and concentration.

And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia.
She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty.
When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea into my angel's head".
Sectioning may well be on the cards.

Granted, most people who take a bit of pot do not get fucked up by it.
However, it CAN and DOES happen - which should at least put pot heads on their guard, and encourage a bit of responsibility in usage.
The link with schizophrenia seems to affect only a minority of users who are pre-disposed towards such things.
But dropping out of school or college (or getting worse grades), apathy and lack of motivation, problems at work, car accidents, etc., are more common with heavy use (especially mixed with alcohol).

The problem seems largely that many people who experiment with drugs lack the maturity to do so responsibly, and are often ignorant of the dangers presented to them with their own personal disposition.
LaVey put it well: "Indulgence, not compulsion."
IMO, if a person feels they 'need' a J to relax, to sleep, to feel good; that they are going to have a crap time and be unable to chill without one; and become obsessive about their next fix - that's crossed the line from responsible usage.
Time for a break...

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#3743 - 02/01/08 12:04 PM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: Meq]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Greetings

Well lets see here, I used to smoke pot every single day of my life for about 5-6 years. I smoked at least an ounce a day some days it was more, it all depended on how many friends would stop over.

We would smoked an entire quarter LB during the super bowl and that was between 5 of us. I never got angry while using it and neither did any of my friends. The only ones that got angry was the ones drinking alcohol or some other kinda drug.

I used it to calm my mind and to relax my body due to a very bad back problem that "Medical Drugs has never helped". I had to stop using it for certain reasons and I stopped cold turkey and haven't touched it for many years now.

I feel the ones that get addicted to it and say they can't stop are usually doing other drugs or heavy drinkers. Or just don't have a strong will over themselves. Pot is a natural substance that has been on earth since day of time, I don't feel theres anything wrong with the people who do it.

I'd rather people smoke pot then to touch alcohol,cigs or other man made drugs. I've never met anyone who died from smoking pot!
Pot doesn't cause cancer like cigs and I've never smoked cigs a day in my life but have smoked many LBS of pot in my lifetime and my lungs are in excellent shape.

The only people I've came across who got ill was the ones mixing pot,beer, and heavy drugs but I know a guy who says hes been smoking pot for over 40 years and never touched any other drug or cigs and hes healthier then an 18 yr old.

Anything thats been man made is unhealthy for anyone and thats been proving time and time again. Cigs cause cancer but its legal bacuse they make billions from it and they know it causes cancer and you get addicted to them because the chemicals in them.

Beer causes people to do a lot of stupid things mainly wrecking and killing some innocent person.

Coke and other heavy drugs causes people to steal, kill and suicide.

Pot to me in harmless but its just my opinion, Others will disagree with me and thats there free will too.

Dark Blessings

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#3750 - 02/01/08 07:04 PM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: Noc]
L Fern Tej Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
you're mistaken noc. The only reason why marijuana isn't notorious for causing cancer is because much more people smoke cigarettes then marijuana. It has been proven that the burning of marijuana releases tar, carbon monoxide, and cyanide... all of which are highly poisonous and aren't natural in the sense that they don't belong in your lungs.
tobacco is just as "natural" as marijuana and people have been growing and consuming tobacco,not to mention poppy seeds(opium, heroine, and other highly addicting and deadly drugs), coca leafs (cocaine/crack), alcohol, and many other drugs as far back as history can trace.
in fact, most of the only completely man-made drugs are hallucinogenic and not any more addicting then cannibas.
i'm not saying that marijuana or any other drugs (illegal or not) are necessarily bad, because they're not, but perhaps if you want to convince people of this you're better off using a more intelligent argument than "everyone else is/was doing it, so it's okay."
just my thoughts on the subject.

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#3751 - 02/01/08 08:08 PM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: L Fern Tej]
Vermis Verita Offline
lurker


Registered: 02/01/08
Posts: 1
h
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#3755 - 02/01/08 09:28 PM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: Meq]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1413
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: Mequa
I've met a number of paranoid pot heads, especially on strong skunk (and usually drunk as well). And yes, they do get angry when they get illusions of being threatened. I've seen it many times (though pot is mild in this regard compared to hard drugs and heavy alcohol abuse).

They must be angry people if not there is enough evidence that alcohol alone can make people angry…

 Quote:
Don't be fooled by claims that pot is 'not addictive'. It isn't strictly a chemical addiction, but some definitely get pretty hooked psychologically (much like with gambling, porn, shopping etc). Tobacco in spliffs is also chemically addictive.

Again weak minded individuals… Most know “nicotine” is the addictive substance in tobacco it is no different if you mix it with other smokables… There is also nicotine in a blunt wrap… Nicotine addiction is also kicked in about two weeks time… Triggers are what get to you, the physical act of smoking itself…

 Quote:
I've met a few who claim they can't get to sleep or wind down without a J. (Yet long-term heavy pot use increases anxiety).

Which biased study produced this information? Since when is everyone the same are we forgetting that each human is somewhat different than the next?

 Quote:
Some would steal for their fix, no matter how otherwise 'out of character' this is.

Now I just question those you seem to know… Those who would steal for pot are predisposed to steal period or young adults…

 Quote:
I've met some with exceptionally bad memory and concentration.

Yeah me to yet the person I have seen go dull the most went to high school with me, never did drugs, and suffers from severe can’t remember shit…

 Quote:
And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia.

The fact that she smokes pot proves what in this equation? That there is something easy to point the finger at to say this is what caused it? Why look harder everyone knows is must be the pot smoke…

 Quote:
She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty.

Damn that devils weed…

 Quote:
When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea into my angel's head".
Sectioning may well be on the cards.

She sounds like she is living in denial as to her kids but we know she is a bit schizo sooooo?

 Quote:
Granted, most people who take a bit of pot do not get fucked up by it.

Somehow I would question so called legal smoking herbs more than Americas favorite pastime after football and beer…

 Quote:
However, it CAN and DOES happen - which should at least put pot heads on their guard, and encourage a bit of responsibility in usage.

In a perfect world everything is just right… Perhaps we should push responsibility on those who use alcohol… Oh wait we do and it does not stop them and it is still legal…

Using your thought process I could say people get hit by cars while crossing the street… We know this yet it still happens… Next?

 Quote:
The link with schizophrenia seems to affect only a minority of users who are pre-disposed towards such things.

So what is the link between schizophrenia and smoking weed? Is there evidence of a change in the brain structure such as shrinking due to alcohol use?

 Quote:
But dropping out of school or college (or getting worse grades), apathy and lack of motivation, problems at work, car accidents, etc., are more common with heavy use (especially mixed with alcohol).

So far everything you mention seems to be “especially when used with alcohol” your whole argument here can simply be written about alcohol… Just remove the word pot in your favorite word editor… Yes this means you are really not saying much…

Unlike pot, alcohol has been studied extensively and causes everything you mention when used alone… It has also been proven that symptoms from alcohol use are worse in women than men… So when you drink or smoke remember chances are your doing more damage to yourself than say me…

On lack of motivation, etc I will simply ask you if Professor Carl Sagan seems to blow this theory out of the water? Carl Sagan was published as Mr. X in Dr. Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana Reconsidered (1971)… Do the research…

 Quote:
The problem seems largely that many people who experiment with drugs lack the maturity to do so responsibly, and are often ignorant of the dangers presented to them with their own personal disposition.

Most people are stupid, ignorant, and wasting air and space… Most people lack commonsense… Adding anything after that fact is pointless…

 Quote:
LaVey put it well: "Indulgence, not compulsion."

LaVey put many things very well… Just remember your compulsion might very well be my indulgence…

 Quote:
IMO, if a person feels they 'need' a J to relax, to sleep, to feel good; that they are going to have a crap time and be unable to chill without one; and become obsessive about their next fix - that's crossed the line from responsible usage.
Time for a break...

Fix? Are you talking about hard drug users or alcoholics still? I have never known a smoker to need a fix…

“You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.” ~Sagan
Are you a believer?

~T~
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#3760 - 02/01/08 10:51 PM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: L Fern Tej]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1413
Loc: Connecticut

 Originally Posted By: L Fern Tej
you're mistaken noc. The only reason why marijuana isn't notorious for causing cancer is because much more people smoke cigarettes then marijuana.

Where do you get your numbers? You seem to speak like you are privy to knowledge that most are not… Do you work in unbiased marijuana research?

 Quote:
It has been proven that the burning of marijuana releases tar, carbon monoxide, and cyanide... all of which are highly poisonous and aren't natural in the sense that they don't belong in your lungs.

We know that Sodium Fluoride is not a natural occurring substance… In fact it is a leftover waste product made during the production of aluminum… It is most commonly used as rat poison, yet it is diluted and given to us in our toothpaste, some public reservoirs, and recently in the form of pills for children… We also know that the Nazis tested fluoride in the water supply to make the people dull and compliant… This chemical never belonged in the human body period… It was also never FDA approved; yet the government and the health care system promotes using it…

Plastics oh the lovely stuff we can eat with it, out of it, store our leftovers in it, and even cook in it… Hell disguised as Olean used in chips a few years back we can even eat it…

Yet in grade school I was taught that plastics were a product made from the waste left over from distilling gasoline from crude oil… Plastic never belonged in our body… Our food and drink was never meant to be consumed from such items… If a plastic water dish can cause your dogs nose to turn white due to an estrogen like substance that can leech from said plastic what might this doing to you? Yet the government promotes the use of plastic…

Many substances that are clearly poisonous are introduced into your body daily… Where is your argument now?

 Quote:
tobacco is just as "natural" as marijuana and people have been growing and consuming tobacco,not to mention poppy seeds(opium, heroine, and other highly addicting and deadly drugs), coca leafs (cocaine/crack), alcohol, and many other drugs as far back as history can trace.

Do you really believe what you write? Have you done any research on this because you sound to me like your teachings on the subject come from watching too much TV…

Everything you mention is not natural in the same sense as cannabis… Tobacco is natural yes but the nicotine levels in cigarettes are not… You cannot take poppy seeds and smoke them or shoot them and get high… Both drugs are processed to concentrate or release such substances… The same holds true with coca leaves, processed with many steps, one step that uses kerosene or diesel fuel to help extract and concentrate this into a drug substance… The tribes that crew the coca leaves can hardly be called coke addicts… Alcohol last I checked was distilled from different fermented things such as fruit…

 Quote:
in fact, most of the only completely man-made drugs are hallucinogenic and not any more addicting then cannabis.

While hallucinogens are not very addictive they are much more dangerous than cannabis… I have never seen anybody have a bad trip and freak out to never be the same from smoking pot…

P-dope otherwise known as synthetic heroin is as addictive as the real deal, the enhanced nicotine levels in cigarettes fall under this same heading… As addictive as heroin…

 Quote:
i'm not saying that marijuana or any other drugs (illegal or not) are necessarily bad, because they're not, but perhaps if you want to convince people of this you're better off using a more intelligent argument than "everyone else is/was doing it, so it's okay."
just my thoughts on the subject.


So no drugs are bad? I will have to call bullshit here… Cocaine is a bad drug it can overcome you easily and take away your life… The same can be said for opium and heroin… Yet cannabis is the bad guy why?

We know the government lost the alcohol prohibition… Due to this they have secured themselves in not losing the fight against cannabis by classifying cannabis as a class one narcotic with coke, opium, and heroin… Besides banning a wild plant that was used heavily in the cloth industry opened the doorway to sell us more waste left over from distilling gasoline from crude… In case you have not guessed it or done any research the product I speak of is the wonderful invention from Dupont called nylon…

America loves selling us products made from waste… Yet tries to restrict us from a plant that is as useful as the peanut… How ignorant is this?

Closing thought…

If the use of marijuana is not so widespread why is there a war on people who smoke it… Who else is singled out by urine tests, only marijuana can be seen for a long enough time for a urine test to be useful… Chew on that one…

~T~
_________________________
We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy

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#3764 - 02/02/08 05:12 AM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: ta2zz]
daevid777 Offline
active member


Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Good points, Ta2zz...

Actually, Marijuana IS up there on the "Controlled Substances" list, right along side of Heroin and Mescaline (and you know how dangerous and rampant Mescaline use is in the urban areas...)

Those are "Schedule I" drugs. The nastiest of the nasties. Marijuana - bad indeed.

So... here is Schedule II:

Opium, Morphine, Methadone, Dilaudid (less than Marijuana! Shit, and I was stuck on "Opium", damn), Oxycodone (holy shit)

Schedule III - even less worse, according to the FDA:

Paragoric, seconal, barbituates...

Schedule IV - Valium, Librium

And so it goes...

Marijuana IS in fact, the worst shit ever, apparently...
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#3765 - 02/02/08 09:59 AM Re: Pot - harmless?? [Re: ta2zz]
Noc Offline
pledge


Registered: 12/12/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Delaware
Reply to L fern tej There is no way one can compare pot and cigs to even come close to being equal. Pot is a naturally grown plant that grows on its own and has since the dawn of time without any added chemicals. Cigs are made with 32 different types of chemicals in them that make people addictive. I seen first hand how easy it was to quit smoking pot after many years and I never had any negative side effects from it. I have ran into thousands of people who have tried everything under the sun to quit smoking cigs and most tried quitting up til the day when they died. Some people went as far to smoke when they had a tube in there throat just to breath. They were so addicted to cigs that they would remove the tube just to inhale the smoke.

I'm going by what i've seen in my lifetime, by the people I've met and witnessed. And watched what they have went through due to drinking and hard drugs. 99% of the ones who did heavy drugs, drank, smoked cigs and pot combined all have heath problems. Out of all the people I know including myself that have only smoked pot and did nothing else, that smoked pound after pound of pot alone have no health effects. So I'm going on my own damn study and the people around me. I don't go by any study that the Government has its hands into, because they will never tell the
people the truth.


Edited by Noc (02/02/08 10:39 AM)

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