I am just curious... has anyone ever tried smoking legal psychoactive herbal mixtures and substances?
I heard of Blueberry Haze, a (currently) legal substitute for cannabis. Its herbal ingredients contain: Kratom, salvia divinorum, wild opium lettuce, scullcap, red clover, siberian motherwort, maconha brava, leonotis leonurus, pedicularis, baybean, blue lotus, hops, honey, vanilla and blueberry.
A guy I saw selling it insisted that its potency was 'comparable' with its 'illegal equivalent'...
Of course, its effects are not the same as cannabis, but it has been reported to induce a mellow cerebral high and sense of warmth. I'd also strongly advise against driving after smoking this. It does not show up on drug blood tests, but it does have the potential to make driving extremely dangerous (especially if mixed with alcohol or any other substances, it may multiply the effects...)
In terms of mixing, I also saw a nicotine-free herbal alternative to tobacco - Farmers Honeyblend herbal smoking mixture. It contains: Marshmallow leaves, red clover flowers and rose petals - matured in honey and fruit juices.
I heard some people even mix it with the Blueberry Haze herbal smoking blend.
Perhaps there are better varieties available in different areas, and different flavours too.
Anyone got any stories to tell about these legal herbs?
Registered: 09/10/07
Posts: 34
Loc: Sydney Australia
Interesting you should post this right now. I'm currently studying a homeopathic and herbal medicine unit, and a keen interest of mine is finding herbal alternatives to weed, or opiates. Mainly for palliative care, and an alternative to Methadone for treatment of opiate addiction.
Both are excellent forms of pain releif, but mostly synthetic treatments are used in the mainstream. Hideous side effects, and swiftly addictive. Gross
Thanks for an excellent source of info
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Too Many Idiots, not enough bullets
tried a few and of course none come close to hash at all.Tried that salvia stuff and felt terrible afterwards.Not sick but just in a vicious mood, wouldn't recommend it to anyone.
The internet is encouraging and destroying all "alternative" sources of euphoria. We just list them away... and give the DEA a shopping list of new crimes to invent.
Then some morons actually try it, and post it all over YouTube... like those salvia divinorum videos - how long until "salvia" is criminalized?
Sorry if that's a downer - I'm looking after the plants here.
Save our legal alternatives! Smoke a bowl of the real stuff!
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Washington State
Wow, SSS, your colors and emoticons give me a headache...
I've never done "mind altering substances," legal or otherwise, with the exception of a couple of weeks on Percoset when I got my tonsils out. I was invited to do Salvia once, but it just didn't seem worth it. My friends have some funny stories though... Something about thinking he was flying over a city, then as he came out of it, he would look around and see his friends and the room, but he would look down and see his feet flying a hundred feet above the ground.
I guess, all good things must come to an end. All currently illegal drugs were once legal, so it's only a matter of time before these alternatives are banned as well, regardless of whether we list them here or not. It just depends on sales, popularity, and popular media coverage. As long as word doesn't get out to people who don't approve of drugs, it's not really an issue. As soon as some popular, beautiful teenage girl is raped and murdered by a friend while she's high, or a couple of boys decide to drive under the influence and cause a major, deadly collision, these legal alternatives will hit the news on 24 hour coverage and then it's only a matter of time before a salvia scare leads to a ban the way it was with pot and LSD. At least the current media is more preoccupied with young kids stealing their parent's prescription drugs than with adults legally purchasing a pot substitute. My only question is, do we really know that these alternatives are safe? A lot of plants that can get you high are also extremely deadly. As I said before, I wouldn't risk it.
My only question is, do we really know that these alternatives are safe? A lot of plants that can get you high are also extremely deadly.
Your are correct Mademoiselle...
"Legal" has never necessarily been a synonym for "safe". And these herbs or "substances" as they may be... aren't exclusively "legal", they are just under the radar for now. Driving after drinking "Jimson weed" tea wouldn't be a "legal" action. Nor would hanging around the police station after ingesting Salvia divinorum - well, at least it wouldn't be a good idea. Drug laws get quite confusing, especially when you consider (a.) mixtures - it really makes no sense at all. Taking one drug to enable the effects of another drug - amazing.
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It just depends on sales, popularity, and popular media coverage.
And we, the proud and free - should do our part to keep such things safe.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 579
Loc: No Fixed Address
I personally ingest only one drug that is not given to me by a doctor and even then I complain when given drugs.
Caffeine.
Caffeine is the only drug I have. I don't smoke or drink. I don't use any herbal mixtures, incense or recreational drugs, legal or otherwise. I've never seen the need to. Caffeine is only in my diet because I made a mistake as a child. Coke. Coke is full of the stuff and I am quite literally an addict. I drink it in large quantities and I enjoy it. It's probably not that good for me.
When it comes to drugs, I don't like them, however I would fight tooth and nail for yours and my own right to take whatever drugs we see fit. Our bodies, we should do whatever the hell we want with them. Legal herbs are only legal because the government hasn't noticed any crimes associated with it, wait until people start driving under the influence or blaming violent outbursts on it and it'll be made illegal. It should be the acts involved though, not the substance, that's made illegal.
_________________________ If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice
Ive tried Panama Gold made by International Oddities Inc. You know what cracks me up?it is like there add in High Times at the bottom of the add it reads these products are not marijuana. NO FUCKING SHIT! nor do they taste like it,or smoke like it, or evan catch you a buzz. Its like drinking a odou'ls instead of a real beer.
PS. udeadridinghood i hope your headache is better
D.L.B..
Edited by SSSnake (12/05/0704:27 PM)
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"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."
I hereby appoint you the Chief of Homeland Herbal Quality Control
If you choose to accept this mission, please press the "#" key. Para español, aprieta por favor 2. Or hold on the line to speak with a customer service representative. This call may be monitored for quality assurance purposes.
Doug, the colors in your post are hurting my brain. Owwwww.... Can I call you Duggles?
Where's my wine? Dammit....
Edited by Nemesis (12/05/0709:02 PM) Edit Reason: so pretty.....
Hello, this is the new Chief of Homeland Herbal Quality Control, the HHQC... I'd like to place an immediate order for 2000 High Pressure Sodium and 1300 Metal Halide lights, 5000 lbs. of rockwool, and 1500 gallons of concentrated plant micronutrient solution. Hello? Hello?
"Para Espanol oprima dos"
Edited by daevid777 (12/05/0709:48 PM)
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Doug, the colors in your post are hurting my brain. Owwwww....
sorry Nemesis
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Can I call you Duggles?
Yes you may call me what you wish. we just made three gal. of mulberry wine it has a strange taste but one hell of a kick. To bad I can't e-mail you a glass.
daevid777, I see you are well qualified for the job. O and try to stop that mexican shit from comming over the border, out west there, lol.
D.L.B.
Edited by SSSnake (12/06/0711:03 AM)
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"Est et fideli tuta silentio merces:"—"for faithful silence, also, there is a sure reward."
try to stop that mexican shit from comming over the border
Well, until first harvest - as Chief of Herbal Homeland Quality Control, I have enacted emergency measures to actually provide immediate access to that "mexican shit". This is, in fact, a time of war, and drastic times call for drastic measures.
I can only hope I am doing the best thing for my country...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 17
Loc: St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
I think that marijuana is the best one. I tried Salvia as well and all it did was make me senseless and angry. For marijuana all it does is relaxes me and makes sleeping much easier. So yeah there are substitutes out there but hey, are any of them really as good as ol' fashion marijuana? Hash is good too lol.
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"Does the dreadful form of personified evil only prompt you to smile?"
Legalize it. And prostitution. Regulate it all and tax the hell out of it. Watch the National Debt get paid off in a week.
Sounds like the Netherlands to me. It would be interesting to research the effects this has had on the Dutch economy. Although the Dutch government has been closing down coffeeshops over the last years.
As far as drug dealers are concerned... I get the impression that governments are more concerned with fighting their tax-free source of income than the substances themselves.
However, the recent mental health scares surrounding Skunk are likely to act as a major obstacle to the legalisation of cannabis.
I find it very odd that the Government outlaws a legal plant thats been here since the dawn of time, that has no side effects that I'm aware of besides eating everything in sight,,, and I haven't ever met anyone dying from smoking bud, only the ones that smoked chemical filled cigarettes that they legally sell. It seems that anything that is all natural and doesn't kill you is illegal. Guess they are making more money from having bud illegal then being legal.
I've met a number of paranoid pot heads, especially on strong skunk (and usually drunk as well). And yes, they do get angry when they get illusions of being threatened. I've seen it many times (though pot is mild in this regard compared to hard drugs and heavy alcohol abuse).
Don't be fooled by claims that pot is 'not addictive'. It isn't strictly a chemical addiction, but some definitely get pretty hooked psychologically (much like with gambling, porn, shopping etc). Tobacco in spliffs is also chemically addictive.
I've met a few who claim they can't get to sleep or wind down without a J. (Yet long-term heavy pot use increases anxiety). Some would steal for their fix, no matter how otherwise 'out of character' this is.
I've met some with exceptionally bad memory and concentration.
And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia. She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty. When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea into my angel's head". Sectioning may well be on the cards.
Granted, most people who take a bit of pot do not get fucked up by it. However, it CAN and DOES happen - which should at least put pot heads on their guard, and encourage a bit of responsibility in usage. The link with schizophrenia seems to affect only a minority of users who are pre-disposed towards such things. But dropping out of school or college (or getting worse grades), apathy and lack of motivation, problems at work, car accidents, etc., are more common with heavy use (especially mixed with alcohol).
The problem seems largely that many people who experiment with drugs lack the maturity to do so responsibly, and are often ignorant of the dangers presented to them with their own personal disposition. LaVey put it well: "Indulgence, not compulsion." IMO, if a person feels they 'need' a J to relax, to sleep, to feel good; that they are going to have a crap time and be unable to chill without one; and become obsessive about their next fix - that's crossed the line from responsible usage. Time for a break...
Well lets see here, I used to smoke pot every single day of my life for about 5-6 years. I smoked at least an ounce a day some days it was more, it all depended on how many friends would stop over.
We would smoked an entire quarter LB during the super bowl and that was between 5 of us. I never got angry while using it and neither did any of my friends. The only ones that got angry was the ones drinking alcohol or some other kinda drug.
I used it to calm my mind and to relax my body due to a very bad back problem that "Medical Drugs has never helped". I had to stop using it for certain reasons and I stopped cold turkey and haven't touched it for many years now.
I feel the ones that get addicted to it and say they can't stop are usually doing other drugs or heavy drinkers. Or just don't have a strong will over themselves. Pot is a natural substance that has been on earth since day of time, I don't feel theres anything wrong with the people who do it.
I'd rather people smoke pot then to touch alcohol,cigs or other man made drugs. I've never met anyone who died from smoking pot! Pot doesn't cause cancer like cigs and I've never smoked cigs a day in my life but have smoked many LBS of pot in my lifetime and my lungs are in excellent shape.
The only people I've came across who got ill was the ones mixing pot,beer, and heavy drugs but I know a guy who says hes been smoking pot for over 40 years and never touched any other drug or cigs and hes healthier then an 18 yr old.
Anything thats been man made is unhealthy for anyone and thats been proving time and time again. Cigs cause cancer but its legal bacuse they make billions from it and they know it causes cancer and you get addicted to them because the chemicals in them.
Beer causes people to do a lot of stupid things mainly wrecking and killing some innocent person.
Coke and other heavy drugs causes people to steal, kill and suicide.
Pot to me in harmless but its just my opinion, Others will disagree with me and thats there free will too.
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
you're mistaken noc. The only reason why marijuana isn't notorious for causing cancer is because much more people smoke cigarettes then marijuana. It has been proven that the burning of marijuana releases tar, carbon monoxide, and cyanide... all of which are highly poisonous and aren't natural in the sense that they don't belong in your lungs. tobacco is just as "natural" as marijuana and people have been growing and consuming tobacco,not to mention poppy seeds(opium, heroine, and other highly addicting and deadly drugs), coca leafs (cocaine/crack), alcohol, and many other drugs as far back as history can trace. in fact, most of the only completely man-made drugs are hallucinogenic and not any more addicting then cannibas. i'm not saying that marijuana or any other drugs (illegal or not) are necessarily bad, because they're not, but perhaps if you want to convince people of this you're better off using a more intelligent argument than "everyone else is/was doing it, so it's okay." just my thoughts on the subject.
I've met a number of paranoid pot heads, especially on strong skunk (and usually drunk as well). And yes, they do get angry when they get illusions of being threatened. I've seen it many times (though pot is mild in this regard compared to hard drugs and heavy alcohol abuse).
They must be angry people if not there is enough evidence that alcohol alone can make people angry…
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Don't be fooled by claims that pot is 'not addictive'. It isn't strictly a chemical addiction, but some definitely get pretty hooked psychologically (much like with gambling, porn, shopping etc). Tobacco in spliffs is also chemically addictive.
Again weak minded individuals… Most know “nicotine” is the addictive substance in tobacco it is no different if you mix it with other smokables… There is also nicotine in a blunt wrap… Nicotine addiction is also kicked in about two weeks time… Triggers are what get to you, the physical act of smoking itself…
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I've met a few who claim they can't get to sleep or wind down without a J. (Yet long-term heavy pot use increases anxiety).
Which biased study produced this information? Since when is everyone the same are we forgetting that each human is somewhat different than the next?
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Some would steal for their fix, no matter how otherwise 'out of character' this is.
Now I just question those you seem to know… Those who would steal for pot are predisposed to steal period or young adults…
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I've met some with exceptionally bad memory and concentration.
Yeah me to yet the person I have seen go dull the most went to high school with me, never did drugs, and suffers from severe can’t remember shit…
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And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia.
The fact that she smokes pot proves what in this equation? That there is something easy to point the finger at to say this is what caused it? Why look harder everyone knows is must be the pot smoke…
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She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty.
Damn that devils weed…
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When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea into my angel's head". Sectioning may well be on the cards.
She sounds like she is living in denial as to her kids but we know she is a bit schizo sooooo?
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Granted, most people who take a bit of pot do not get fucked up by it.
Somehow I would question so called legal smoking herbs more than Americas favorite pastime after football and beer…
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However, it CAN and DOES happen - which should at least put pot heads on their guard, and encourage a bit of responsibility in usage.
In a perfect world everything is just right… Perhaps we should push responsibility on those who use alcohol… Oh wait we do and it does not stop them and it is still legal…
Using your thought process I could say people get hit by cars while crossing the street… We know this yet it still happens… Next?
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The link with schizophrenia seems to affect only a minority of users who are pre-disposed towards such things.
So what is the link between schizophrenia and smoking weed? Is there evidence of a change in the brain structure such as shrinking due to alcohol use?
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But dropping out of school or college (or getting worse grades), apathy and lack of motivation, problems at work, car accidents, etc., are more common with heavy use (especially mixed with alcohol).
So far everything you mention seems to be “especially when used with alcohol” your whole argument here can simply be written about alcohol… Just remove the word pot in your favorite word editor… Yes this means you are really not saying much…
Unlike pot, alcohol has been studied extensively and causes everything you mention when used alone… It has also been proven that symptoms from alcohol use are worse in women than men… So when you drink or smoke remember chances are your doing more damage to yourself than say me…
On lack of motivation, etc I will simply ask you if Professor Carl Sagan seems to blow this theory out of the water? Carl Sagan was published as Mr. X in Dr. Lester Grinspoon's Marihuana Reconsidered (1971)… Do the research…
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The problem seems largely that many people who experiment with drugs lack the maturity to do so responsibly, and are often ignorant of the dangers presented to them with their own personal disposition.
Most people are stupid, ignorant, and wasting air and space… Most people lack commonsense… Adding anything after that fact is pointless…
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LaVey put it well: "Indulgence, not compulsion."
LaVey put many things very well… Just remember your compulsion might very well be my indulgence…
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IMO, if a person feels they 'need' a J to relax, to sleep, to feel good; that they are going to have a crap time and be unable to chill without one; and become obsessive about their next fix - that's crossed the line from responsible usage. Time for a break...
Fix? Are you talking about hard drug users or alcoholics still? I have never known a smoker to need a fix…
“You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe.” ~Sagan Are you a believer?
~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy
you're mistaken noc. The only reason why marijuana isn't notorious for causing cancer is because much more people smoke cigarettes then marijuana.
Where do you get your numbers? You seem to speak like you are privy to knowledge that most are not… Do you work in unbiased marijuana research?
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It has been proven that the burning of marijuana releases tar, carbon monoxide, and cyanide... all of which are highly poisonous and aren't natural in the sense that they don't belong in your lungs.
We know that Sodium Fluoride is not a natural occurring substance… In fact it is a leftover waste product made during the production of aluminum… It is most commonly used as rat poison, yet it is diluted and given to us in our toothpaste, some public reservoirs, and recently in the form of pills for children… We also know that the Nazis tested fluoride in the water supply to make the people dull and compliant… This chemical never belonged in the human body period… It was also never FDA approved; yet the government and the health care system promotes using it…
Plastics oh the lovely stuff we can eat with it, out of it, store our leftovers in it, and even cook in it… Hell disguised as Olean used in chips a few years back we can even eat it…
Yet in grade school I was taught that plastics were a product made from the waste left over from distilling gasoline from crude oil… Plastic never belonged in our body… Our food and drink was never meant to be consumed from such items… If a plastic water dish can cause your dogs nose to turn white due to an estrogen like substance that can leech from said plastic what might this doing to you? Yet the government promotes the use of plastic…
Many substances that are clearly poisonous are introduced into your body daily… Where is your argument now?
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tobacco is just as "natural" as marijuana and people have been growing and consuming tobacco,not to mention poppy seeds(opium, heroine, and other highly addicting and deadly drugs), coca leafs (cocaine/crack), alcohol, and many other drugs as far back as history can trace.
Do you really believe what you write? Have you done any research on this because you sound to me like your teachings on the subject come from watching too much TV…
Everything you mention is not natural in the same sense as cannabis… Tobacco is natural yes but the nicotine levels in cigarettes are not… You cannot take poppy seeds and smoke them or shoot them and get high… Both drugs are processed to concentrate or release such substances… The same holds true with coca leaves, processed with many steps, one step that uses kerosene or diesel fuel to help extract and concentrate this into a drug substance… The tribes that crew the coca leaves can hardly be called coke addicts… Alcohol last I checked was distilled from different fermented things such as fruit…
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in fact, most of the only completely man-made drugs are hallucinogenic and not any more addicting then cannabis.
While hallucinogens are not very addictive they are much more dangerous than cannabis… I have never seen anybody have a bad trip and freak out to never be the same from smoking pot…
P-dope otherwise known as synthetic heroin is as addictive as the real deal, the enhanced nicotine levels in cigarettes fall under this same heading… As addictive as heroin…
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i'm not saying that marijuana or any other drugs (illegal or not) are necessarily bad, because they're not, but perhaps if you want to convince people of this you're better off using a more intelligent argument than "everyone else is/was doing it, so it's okay." just my thoughts on the subject.
So no drugs are bad? I will have to call bullshit here… Cocaine is a bad drug it can overcome you easily and take away your life… The same can be said for opium and heroin… Yet cannabis is the bad guy why?
We know the government lost the alcohol prohibition… Due to this they have secured themselves in not losing the fight against cannabis by classifying cannabis as a class one narcotic with coke, opium, and heroin… Besides banning a wild plant that was used heavily in the cloth industry opened the doorway to sell us more waste left over from distilling gasoline from crude… In case you have not guessed it or done any research the product I speak of is the wonderful invention from Dupont called nylon…
America loves selling us products made from waste… Yet tries to restrict us from a plant that is as useful as the peanut… How ignorant is this?
Closing thought…
If the use of marijuana is not so widespread why is there a war on people who smoke it… Who else is singled out by urine tests, only marijuana can be seen for a long enough time for a urine test to be useful… Chew on that one…
~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy
Actually, Marijuana IS up there on the "Controlled Substances" list, right along side of Heroin and Mescaline (and you know how dangerous and rampant Mescaline use is in the urban areas...)
Those are "Schedule I" drugs. The nastiest of the nasties. Marijuana - bad indeed.
So... here is Schedule II:
Opium, Morphine, Methadone, Dilaudid (less than Marijuana! Shit, and I was stuck on "Opium", damn), Oxycodone (holy shit)
Schedule III - even less worse, according to the FDA:
Paragoric, seconal, barbituates...
Schedule IV - Valium, Librium
And so it goes...
Marijuana IS in fact, the worst shit ever, apparently...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Reply to L fern tej There is no way one can compare pot and cigs to even come close to being equal. Pot is a naturally grown plant that grows on its own and has since the dawn of time without any added chemicals. Cigs are made with 32 different types of chemicals in them that make people addictive. I seen first hand how easy it was to quit smoking pot after many years and I never had any negative side effects from it. I have ran into thousands of people who have tried everything under the sun to quit smoking cigs and most tried quitting up til the day when they died. Some people went as far to smoke when they had a tube in there throat just to breath. They were so addicted to cigs that they would remove the tube just to inhale the smoke.
I'm going by what i've seen in my lifetime, by the people I've met and witnessed. And watched what they have went through due to drinking and hard drugs. 99% of the ones who did heavy drugs, drank, smoked cigs and pot combined all have heath problems. Out of all the people I know including myself that have only smoked pot and did nothing else, that smoked pound after pound of pot alone have no health effects. So I'm going on my own damn study and the people around me. I don't go by any study that the Government has its hands into, because they will never tell the people the truth.
The Government tried there hand in making Pot Legal back in the 30's. They gave each dealer a specific tax stamp which they put on there bags. But the Government wasn't making as much money off it being legal. Because most people grew there own pot for free so then the Government stepped in and controlled it making it illegal. That way they could control all the profits off of it.. even making it illegal to grow it as well.
The Government says pot is a controlled substance? In a way it is, It's controlled by the Government. They allow for it to be brought over our borders ever day from Mexico. When they catch someone with a lot of pot what do you think the Government does with it? They put it out on the market to sell. So they just caught a Dealer and they will fine him, take his valuables,home ,money ,cars and they will sell and keep the money from that. Then the pot they confiscated will be put back out on the streets to get the market value and the Government keeps the funds from it.
The Government knows pot isn't harmful but they see a way to make money off of it. Everything comes down to making money. Hell the Government allows things that kill people just to make a profit from it. But what does it matter the people who don't want to believe won't believe.
I'm still sticking to what I say about pot not being harmful and I do this only because I experienced it!
Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 65
Loc: Las Vegas, NV. (u.s.)
are you suggesting that the ratio of people who smoke marijuana is even comparable to those who smoke cigarettes? the NSDUH released a report that claimed that 1.3 of the population as of 2003 were regular marijuana users. compare that to a 23.9 percent of cigarette smokers. so no, i'm not privy of any knowledge that isn't available to anyone else who cares to do a bit of research.
is there rehab for sodium fluoride? i guess i wasn't aware of it's presence because it's not a mind inducing substance... but i guess you're right, there are multiple poisonous chemicals we take in daily so what the hell, lets just smoke crack and shoot dope. Wont make much of a difference right ta2zz?
morphine is the main ingredient in poppy seeds and can and was in fact injected directly from the poppy bud. heavy users of the coca leaf would suck on the plant about 3 times a day which is 390 gms. a week.
yes, i am saying that all drugs aren't bad. i am aware of cocaine's addicting and life ruining reputation, but have you ever tried it? have you yourself ever experienced it? it's a very stimulating high that i personally enjoy. the same goes for all the rest of the drugs, when used responsibly are rather satisfying and enjoyable.
i do understand your and noc's point of view, but i dont think it fair to say that marijuana is less destructive as any other drug when used in a responsible manner.
I wont even begin to compare people who smoke pot alone to the people who smoke cigarettes, because there isn't even a comparison. Pot doesn't have 32 chemicals added to it to get you addicted and there is no proving case that someone who has smoked Pot alone without ever smoking cigarettes to die from it.
And your claims as from the NSDUH report are the ones who smoke cigarettes and Pot together, it doesn't give you the percent of people who only smoked Pot!
I don't follow Government controlled research because they fill it up with so much Bullshit Id have to wear rubber boots to keep my shoes clean when reading there reports.
And all of the other drugs you mention are Man made drugs. They mix and add other chemicals to make the drug have a reaction. And yes I did Lsd, coke a couple of times and it wasn't anything that I wanted to use. I wasn't in control of my mind or my body, and those two drugs were developed by man!!!
Coke has a lot of bad shit mixed up with it, people who sell it usually cut the shit 2-3 times before it hits the street. Hell there even putting oven cleaner and other shit in it just to get people high. Thats not the shit I want to be using but to the ones who do can do so its there free will.
But they can't compare the side effects of any of them drugs cigarettes included to even compare to Pot, because all the other drugs have added chemicals. If you want pure earth giving plant then grow your own plant and smoke it.
Anytime you get man involved with mixing and making something up its going to be harmful. Look how they make meds for when you get sick, half the time you take one pill to cure your disease you have to take 5 other pills to combat the side effects from the first.
are you suggesting that the ratio of people who smoke marijuana is even comparable to those who smoke cigarettes? the NSDUH released a report that claimed that 1.3 of the population as of 2003 were regular marijuana users. compare that to a 23.9 percent of cigarette smokers. so no, i'm not privy of any knowledge that isn't available to anyone else who cares to do a bit of research.
Your data is likely insufficient in truly establishing a proper ratio…
1. Cigarette smokers can be counted easily through sales figures… 2. Smokers of cannabis are not as easily counted…
I was not counted as either, were you?
Using your own data proves and drives home my point further… Nicotine is highly addictive and destructive yet the government allows it… Clearly it is as addictive as a class one narcotic… Yet it is cannabis that holds that position not nicotine… Why?
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is there rehab for sodium fluoride? i guess i wasn't aware of it's presence because it's not a mind inducing substance...
Is there truly rehab for the use of cannabis or is this just another way to milk you and the insurance institutions?
Could the nature of fluoride in the water supply be why so many people are dull and compliant? Is it just quite possible that those of us that walk with open eyes simply just intake very little fluoride?
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but i guess you're right, there are multiple poisonous chemicals we take in daily so what the hell, lets just smoke crack and shoot dope. Wont make much of a difference right ta2zz?
Do not try to simply paint me the lunatic and easily write off the facts I present…
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morphine is the main ingredient in poppy seeds and can and was in fact injected directly from the poppy bud.
“A Hungarian chemist, Janos Kabay found and internationally patented a method to extract morphine from 'poppy-straw': dried poppy pods and stem, and other parts of the dry plant, except for seeds and root. In natural form, in poppy plant, the alkaloids are bound to meconic acid. The method is to extract from the crushed plant with diluted sulphuroic-acid, which is a stronger acid than meconic acid, but not so strong to react with alkaloid molecules. The extraction is performed in many steps”
“As a pharmacist's apprentice in Paderborn, he was the first to isolate morphine from opium. He called the isolated alkaloid "morphium" after the Greek god of dreams, Morpheus. It was not only the first alkaloid to be extracted from opium, but the first ever alkaloid to be isolated from any plant. Thus he became the first person to isolate the active ingredient associated with a medicinal plant or herb.”
heavy users of the coca leaf would suck on the plant about 3 times a day which is 390 gms. a week.
“(We should not forget that the highest incidence of chewers takes place at high altitudes, where about 75% of the population chew coca, while at 2,000 meters above sea level only 20% are habitual chewers and only 3% at sea level.) The Andean inhabitants must endure altitudes of 4,000 meters above sea level, where oxygen concentrations are very poor. The analeptic or stimulating effect on respiration is the perfect complement to offset this chronic lack of oxygen.”
yes, i am saying that all drugs aren't bad. i am aware of cocaine's addicting and life ruining reputation, but have you ever tried it? have you yourself ever experienced it? it's a very stimulating high that i personally enjoy. the same goes for all the rest of the drugs, when used responsibly are rather satisfying and enjoyable.
There hardly seems to be much responsibility or pride in using a drug that there is never enough of… Be honest with yourself and realize the problem is cocaine can make you feel like you can move mountains while really you are selling everything for more coke… So long as you feel good everything is ok right? Remember this the next time you are picking crumbs tasting them hoping that you just found one more tiny piece of coke…
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i do understand your and noc's point of view, but i dont think it fair to say that marijuana is less destructive as any other drug when used in a responsible manner.
I think you will now understand my point of view a bit better… If you can view yourself as a responsible user of cocaine, then where do you draw the line? Can there be responsible heroin addicts or crack users?
To think that smoking cannabis is as destructive as using cocaine is simply living in denial…
Peace
~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy
Pot and Angel Trumpet are the two plants sacred to Shiva. I know this has nothing to do with anything.
Angel Trumpet is some heavy shit dude. I havent tried it nor would i like to do so. I read a story about a kid making tea of the flower and then drinking it. A while later he was out in his backyard cutting his dick off with some hedgescissors. Ive read a few other stories about this halluconogen too which werent too nice.
I've never touched drugs in my life. I've seen the demise of many, and witnessed the atrocities induced by using drugs that are both legal, and illegal. In saying that, it really isn't my place to judge what drugs are good and bad, or what the major effects of them are on our own individual bodies. At the end of the day -- I see absolutely no point in using any form of substance, with the exception of prescribed drugs in affect to relieve pain from terminally-ill patients, or those in a serious condition after some serious accident.
The only drug that has ever run through my system is something called "Inovexitan" which was used to treat a Snake bite when I was younger (I learned a valuable lesson not to piss off a snake), because if I did not take it, it would have no doubt killed me instantly. My motto on all drugs -- including drugs such as Panadol, Asprin, etc. -- is "Harden the fuck up!"
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"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - José Narosky
On topic: Salvia Divinorum is about the best of the legal smoking herbs. That stuff provides a crazy-intense trip when properly administered--for about six minutes. To me, the psychedelic experience was the kind of nutty I was looking for when I first tried acid--very visual, and just about out of my mind. After coming down, I was VERY relaxed, not strung out like one would be with acid or shrooms. It's good stuff, and almost impossible to become addicted to, I think.
Off topic: Who cares if drugs are good for people? Who cares if they make them stupid? People should have the right to do what they want with their own bodies and lives. Wanna shoot yourself in the head? Fine by me. Wanna live on McDonalds and butter? Fine by me. Wanna sell your TV to buy crack? Fine by me. Wanna spend your life starving in a frozen gutter? Fine by me. Wanna be "hard" and not take drugs? Fine by me. Wanna have monster dope parties with loud music, half-naked women, and free drugs for everyone? Fine by me--as long as I get an invite.
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Always remember two things: Eat pussy 'til your face hurts, and my dick is bigger than yours.
The other is ordinary Mulberry fruit of a Mulberry tree - the kind silk worms eat and live on. Only female trees grow fruit; and only the green unripened berries are psychedelic. When it ripens it looses this property and just tastes sweet.
The Mulberries, when you eat them green works, but has an odd side effect. It makes these black spots and slotches appear under your fingernails... but this goes away after a while.
Kayla
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Lux Ex Tenebris Lux Lucet Ex Orientis
Maybe thats why goths wear black polish, cuz they gorge themselves with green mulberries? I never tried these myself. This was only for educational purposes... i read about the mulberries, and made a friend eat them until he puked. Then he experienced a trip, and the black spots came. We thought his fingers was going to go gang green and fall off. He was shitting bricks for a while. He still has all of his fingers. He smokes anything (he's our resident guinea pig - not too bright, but big hearted), even dry banana peels. He told me nutmeg nuts are hallucinogenic also, but you need to smoke a whole nut. He was telling me of this time he was high on nutmeg and when he was walking he said he was being followed by a green trash can and a VCR, and no matter how fast he ran they followed him. I tried to smoke a line of nutmeg powder, but i didn't get anything, just an odd aromatic taste, and a slight numbness in my head.
Kayla
Edited by LUCIFERIFIC (04/26/0806:55 PM)
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Lux Ex Tenebris Lux Lucet Ex Orientis
I hate to flex my authority as Head of the Department of Herbal Homeland Security, but this, my dear, is the kind of shit that gets these wonderful "occult" plants banned, burned, and criminalized. PM works fine here. Everyone who reads this does not need to have certain knowledge at their fingertips. Certainly not "photographic" evidence.
Salvia Divinorum is/was a fine plant, and a beautiful one as Meq pointed out. Now some assholes on YouTube thought it would be funny to record their idiot friends tripping out on this shit. Look where it has gotten us.
This thread sits on a razor's edge. I'm just looking out for the plants...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
I have smoked just about everything under the sun, all BS aside. Really, I think anything with medicinal, or psychotropic characteristics which serves as such in it's completely natural form is good, or should I say a possible breakthrough both spiritually and medically. I think weed does its wonders..I personally am in love with Salvia Divinorum. I even went as far as creating my own websites on it, and really I don't like what salvia does to me immediately, but after using it a few times, I notices over time, that I'd changed somehow for the better. It's almost like that dreaded trancelike state did something good for me without me knowing it. I kicked a gnarly addiction to narcotics, cut back on the cigarettes by about 25% and mentally kind of fell back in gear. No kidding! Opiate is an awful, physically tormenting drug(s) to attempt quitting. Even all the will power I thought I had at times didn't work, before. I think Salvia is both a physical and psychological gift from the soil..b(despite the kickass intensity of just one hit!! ) Please feel free to checkout my site or email me if you have any questions about Salvia. I've used and studied it in depth. http://www.salviadivinorumlove.com
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Dr. Saige D. Known as "Doc." (And no, I'm not really a doctor)
Smoking stuff is always interesting. I grew up with a pot smoking father with alot of ailments he neednt have suffered with if not for the medication the doctors prescribed him for really bad, and at the time, rare arthiritis. He always used to say... you'll never see anyone punch their wife after a joint... and I guess to some extent he's right. But once something is burned, it automatically becomes carcinogenic, better to cook brownies in that case. Saige, I'm gonna check out your site, looks interesting.
I am all for people doing their own thing with their own bodies in the privacy of their own homes, but I have very little respect for drug users all the same. Especially when they tout their usage as something cultural or spiritual. Admittedly, I had my fun back in high school, and that is all it was, fun. Not a quest for spiritual guidance at the bottom of a bong. SO what if the American Indians took peyote to have visions? Don't we know now what caused said "vision?" Not the great Coyote, just some common, earthly chemicals? Pass the peacepipe to some other idiot, I'm driving.
i have been smoking hallucinogin grass [ganja] for the past 15 years., i get delusion, paranoid as thought i am already a dead man.as i only live for myself, all addict's do.,but i know where we all going., don't we
i have been smoking hallucinogin grass [ganja] for the past 15 years., i get delusion, paranoid as thought i am already a dead man.as i only live for myself, all addict's do.,but i know where we all going., don't we
like shive b'cause he is blue., poison is the colour ., kali red in colour ., when we smoke we turn blue in colour., blueblood . com
there is somthing beyond what really happens right now happens., the answers we do not find. what ever happens today won't happen tomorrow., this is not an one liner.,
i have been on ,lsd ,heroin, psycodelic drug on my way since i got seperated from my family ., i am looking for solace in the form of monetery benefit., any one for takers pl pm me., only shiva i have trust in U., cause i am blueblood,everything is a junction., day & night ., month cycle., the midnight junction
No use in replying, it only gives the mods more to clean up later on.
D.
It's comparable to a one car wreck with fatal ejections from the vehicle. Good thing Nem is working bloody body detail tonight. I only have to pick up the car parts.
_________________________ Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.
Or maybe to an accident on the highway that other passing drivers have to slow down and rubberneck to see what's going on "Oooh, who is it? Do I know them? Are there bodybags? Aw man, there's blood stains all over the asphalt! Sweet!"
Maybe 666 is a testament to why these herbs should not be smoked for any extended length of time...what the FUCK are they growing in India anyway?
To get back on topic; I am pro for legal smoking herbs. Altough there are some negative facts like getting addicted or getting sick of it. In my opinion these things can be put aside, and if so you want to try/use these herbs it is your own responsability. If you are getting addicted, fine, don't bother others or (from my point of view) they may kick your ass. If you are getting sick of it --> stop using it. It is your own responsability what you are doing with your entire body. If you are willingly to sicken it, go ahead then.
I'm pro because of the reason: it can calm you down in stressy situations. Nothing makes you more calm then smoking a joint/waterpipe together with your friends. It is social and relaxational. However, if it gets legalized I want to have some laws who put on a certain restriction so there's no abuse of it. (And sorry for eventual spelling mistakes, Studying on a university is quite hard and I didn't get much sleep lately.)
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You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
Coelentrate- Yah you did. I normally would have taken the advice but the vodka was talking that night.
Dimitri- So you would basically have it treated like alchohol then? People who are weak enough to get addicted have bigger demons to fight than being a slave to pot.
i think it is shit that Drug charities in the UK have now kicked up a fuss about the legal highs!
now they are reviewing the stuff and are thinking about implementing laws in correspondence to legal highs.
=/
i think, they should just let people be how they wanna be, and legalize the real stuff.
just think, if the legalize the real stuff and put 10% tax on the weed, think of the money the government could make. could that not save the financial market too and also it would make all happy too..
but, lets hope that the substitute does not get the ban
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When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.
Yes, let's legalize cannabis for responsible adults to buy in a controlled manner. Hell, even put health warnings (and age warnings) on the packaging as is done for cigarettes and alcohol - that way everyone can be fully informed of the facts and allowed to make up their own mind. As for the 10% tax cut... well, legalizing the plant will dramatically reduce the cost of the substance, since not only will it be grown more freely, cultivators and suppliers will no longer have to take such risks with the law which pushes up the price of the product. In short, if weed were successfully legalized, governments would eventually be able to take a much fatter tax cut than 10% on weed, with the product retailing for less (or no or little more) than its black market price. The economic benefits would go without saying - and would be more than welcome in today's economic climate.
However, this doesn't look likely in the foreseeable future - at least not in my country. In the UK, Prime Minister Gordon Brown plans early next year to raise the maximum penalty for simple cannabis possession from 2 years to 5 - in defiance of the scientific evidence provided by his own research body. Paranoia over 'lethal' skunk (as Mr Brown himself misleadingly described it) has continued to mask the hypocrisy of permitting alcohol and tobacco but prohibiting cannabis (which has been shown to be generally less addictive, dangerous and toxic than the legal drugs - even in its strong 'skunk' form).
The nanny state is still strong. As far as governments' attitudes towards certain recreational substances is concerned (even some less addictive ones - pot is not heroin), no one is a mature enough adult to make the decision for themselves whether to use or not. We are all like little children who need to be guided by the hand and taken away from danger (by force if necessary) 'for our own good'.
Dimitri- So you would basically have it treated like alchohol then? People who are weak enough to get addicted have bigger demons to fight than being a slave to pot.
Actually yes, but only with the difference people are allowed to carry maximum "some" grams with 1 number. So I'm happy with the drugs/alcohol laws uphere. It is legal if you have a max of.. 1 gram on you. Above it they may sue you.
Also the most funniest thing here in Belgium is the fact that you may carry a max of 1gram per person; but you may not buy it within the country itself....
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You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
You can have 3 grams without being fined or arrested (when adult) and are allowed to have one cannabis plant at home, so that gets rid of the surreal rule that you can carry but not buy. You just grow your own little stock at home.
But, to make it typical Belgian, it is still illegal but they don't do anything when they catch you.
It pretty much the same where I live in Oregon, you can have up to an ounce and it is just a traffic ticket for possession under an ounce. As far is cops really doing anything about it all depends on how much they like paperwork and how much you have on you. If it's like a gram or around that area they won't even bother they'll say shit like "I'll be back to run your name and if that is gone by the time I get back I didn't see it." I think they are still trying to legalize it but I'm not sure I haven't been hom in a while.
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.
I also like the fact that possesion of less than an ounce only constitutes a misdemeanor here in Oregon. There is far too much time and money wasted to lock up stoners. There are other people who need to be in the jails and I think people around here realize that. I don't like, however, the federal governments constant subversion of the Medicinal Marijuana Act.
I saw other people talking about Salvia, I have only done it a few times but that was enough for me. The first time I had no idea what I was getting into and had no respect for the substance and it turned me on my head. I tried it a few more times and just decided that it was way too much for me. I imagine it could be a pretty pleasant experience for the right person. I am not the right person though.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
I also like the fact that possesion of less than an ounce only constitutes a misdemeanor here in Oregon. ....
for the past year and abit, this part of Germany has changed its rules :0
it use to be u could carry up to 4 grams for personal consumption. thats is about 0.14 oz. then they changed it to 2 grams :-( then about a year and a half, they decided to bring in the 0.0 gram tolerance rule on weed, only because this state ( NRW) is next to the Dutch border.
but, what i did find out be allot of friends,, if they get checked, and have abut 1 - 2 grams of green 9/10 times they get away with it.
too bad for a friend of a friend of mine ;-)
after being bust with 15 KG, he wont be seeing the light of day for some time
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When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.
15KG! That's enough for 150000 joints (rolled with tobacco) I take it his intensive medical/personal use story didn't convince?
Hopefully he'll get off on good behavior or something...
Do they tend to just confiscate the stash where you live and give a warning with 1-2g?
That's the general here in the UK (it's considered a waste of police time to haul everyone's ass to the station they find with a gram of bud), although theoretically simple possession can carry a 2 yr sentence plus unlimited fine (to increase to 5 yrs soon). To get charged for simple possession here, there usually has to be aggravating factors (such as getting caught smoking a joint right next to a school).
However, Prime Minister Gordon Brown and his 'cronies' want to introduce more spot arrests and prosecutions, in addition to lengthier maximum sentences (for simple possession only).
Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 706
Loc: Adelaide Australia
Pot used to be decriminilized in South Australia and you could grow up to 10 plants in your home without it being 'cultivation'.
But again thanks to Rann the fucking dogshit man, and his crackdown on druggies, bikers and freedoms, there is now a 1 plant (outside only no hydroponics) per house before they start trying to get you on 'cultivation'.
I think that to have a little bit is still decriminilized and is an on the spot fine, but with Rann it's hard to say. I personally am not bothered by having a joint or cone in public without looking over my shoulder.
Oh yeah, we do have random drug tests for drivers for cannabis, amphetemines and opiates in the last couple of years.
That's a bit sucky as I've always liked getting really stoned when I drive long distances or just to keep me driving fairly slow.
No doubt you get a fine for illegal drug use also, although I don't know anyone that has beeen done yet to find out exactly.
I was brought up on Polyployd(I'm not sure of the spelling) which was such a strong strain of weed. My dad grew plants and I got my first weed off him when I was 12. Scary really. My daughter is nearly that age and I'd never give it to her yet. She knows that I smoke pot, I've always done it in front of her, so she knows what it is, and I've told her that if she ever wants to try it to come and see me and not just do it with her friends.
She of course is rebelling against having such an abnormal mother by being super straight and of course they are put off smoking sooo much at school these days, I get the feeling it will be a while before she does her drug experiementation.
Actually I think this deserves it's own thread and shall end this conversation here and start it up.
Zeph
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass - It's about learning to dance in the rain.
15KG! That's enough for 150000 joints (rolled with tobacco) I take it his intensive medical/personal use story didn't convince?
Hopefully he'll get off on good behavior or something...
Do they tend to just confiscate the stash where you live and give a warning with 1-2g?
sadly the personal use story did not work =(
For 1 - 2 grams i think u can get of with either a slap on the wrist or a lil fine of 40 - 50 bucks,,
but, i do have a another bad thing, another mate of mine has just been caught too, he had a mix of stuff, no need for details but he is estimated for 6 years
the police are like flies ,, as soon as fresh shit is out they are there in a flash excuse the pun...
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When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.
Again, I have to step in As Chief of Herbal Homeland Security... (yeah, my job title changes...)
I don't want to see anymore of my delicious herbals placed on a controlled substance list. DO YOU HEAR ME?
If you know some shit, then you know some shit. Keep it to yourselves... I know this goes against the purpose of this post, but I can't see any more of the wonderful "shamanistic" plants, become criminalized, and hunted down... Especially because some lame as person saw another lame ass person ingest such a plant on YouTube...
This thread is dangerous, if only to the plants mentioned, and yet unmentioned.
I will say this about Datura... since it was already mentioned...
Don't fuck with Datura!
There.
Okay, as Chief of the HHQC (Herbal Homeland Quality Control) - see, it just changed back again! I feel the need to educate you poor civilians...
Datura Inoxia is a "weed" in the south-western part of the United States. The leaves have a distinctive "petroleum" odor (my best description), and the most beautiful, white, night blooming flowers, which are quite wonderful... and have a nice fragrance. When mature, the plant develops a "seed pod" casing which resembles a small, round kiwi fruit with spines. In here is the danger to which a portion of the youth succumb...
Inside are several black seeds... which can be boiled and made into a tea, unfittingly called "Jimson Weed", which is a dear, close relative, farther north, this is "the Devil's Weed", Datura Inoxia. "Jimson Weed" as it is known is Datura Stramonium. Jimson weed is more "erect" as a plant and grows in different areas, the similarities between the two (D. Inoxia, and D. Stramonium) are the leaf structure, night blooming flowers, and the seed "capsule" - it is known also as "Thornapple" for the same reason (see above)...
The "hallucinogenic" capabilities of this plant are vast, and "uncontrollable". Carlos Casteñeda, in his famous tomes, describes this plant in much the same way, and it is not something for the "uninitiated" to fuck with. This warning should apply to most of you, and myself. It is, however, part of the initiate's training to "grow" such a plant, a task which would seem easy enough, being that it is considered a "weed", and will persist in virtually any soil.
This plant is a relative of the Deadly Nightshade... "Belladonna" "Beautiful Lady", if you will. A name given perhaps not only for the wonderfully fragrant night-blooming flowers (think-morning glory in reverse... which is another story, or "4-o'clocks), but also for the element "atropine" which is still used today. This is an anti-cholinergic drug, and most useful in medicine today, one use being dilation of the pupils, for which it is suggested "old time" prostitutes would use "tinctures" of the "Beautiful Lady" to instill in their eyes, to give the "bedroom eyes", that is dilated pupils (more on dilated pupils and excitation in sexual interest later).
However, no matter how the "beautiful lady" charms you, with her night-blooming fragrance, or most wonderful flowers, I insist that you steer clear of this most wild, untamable, unmanageable, demonstrably non-ingestible plant.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
The "hallucinogenic" capabilities of this plant are vast, and "uncontrollable". Carlos Casteñeda, in his famous tomes, describes this plant in much the same way, and it is not something for the "uninitiated" to fuck with. This warning should apply to most of you, and myself. It is, however, part of the initiate's training to "grow" such a plant, a task which would seem easy enough, being that it is considered a "weed", and will persist in virtually any soil.
that reminds me of Salvia Divinorum, the 30X extract. that is also a nasty one at times.
but i have know some strange times with that stuff. it is a pity that that one has also been put on the no-go list in germany.
and only a few days go, some herbal thing called SPICE is also on the list =(
Registered: 11/12/08
Posts: 22
Loc: Bronx, New York
I'm all for legalizing pot/cannabis but unfortunately this is no longer a government of the people but of the lobbyist! Who cares if people want to smoke a plant, shows how backwards we are!
and only a few days go, some herbal thing called SPICE is also on the list =(
Spice is some strong stuff. It comes in several strengths - Spice Gold was once the strongest, but now there is a Spice Diamond blend which is even stronger.
In what country has Spice been put on the list?
The Spice blends work on the same principle as the Salvia extracts - extract concentrated alkaloids from plants which would otherwise have only a weak effect (and are thus still legal to use), and blend then with some legal, natural, nicotine-free smokable herbs to give the impression of an innocent legal herbal blend (or incense, as Spice is sold as).
I gave this guy I know a pre-rolled Spice Gold 'joint' (wrapped in green paper packaging) for his birthday once - with a note saying "do not mix with alcohol". Which was the reason I didn't give it to him until the day after his birthday. Not that that helped.
The next time I saw him, at his girlfriend's party, I asked him how his present was. Turns out, he had drunk between 8-10 pints the night before (he couldn't remember how much exactly), fancied a bit of weed but had none of the real stuff about, remembered his present, and briefly remembered my warning but in his inebriated state said "fuck it". At least he decided to just smoke half of it (a mate finished it off).
At first, it had little effect, and he thought it must have been crap or would have been illegal. 10 minutes later however, he felt like he had just smashed into a brick wall. He had instant tunnel vision, saw pink and purple swirls everywhere (must be the lotus extract), and thought he was going to die. He said it was comparable to having taken 2 acid tabs. His mate thought it must have been Salvia, something the poor bugger hadn't heard of. (Nope, there is no Salvia divinorum or Salvinorin A in the Spice products - and the onset is different anyway.) Anyway, after a night puking his guts out, he learned the lesson the hard way not to mix Spice with excessive alcohol. Not that he is likely to touch any of the Spice blends ever again.
Incidentally, his mate, despite being equally drunk, had little effect from his half of the 'joint'. Turns out he was a coke-head with a strong tolerance to just about everything...
Datura is completely different from Salvia, pot or Spice. Datura can kill you. Easily. It contains toxic levels of atropine, which produces deliriant effects in sufficient quantities. It's a complete detachment from reality, completely different to conventional psychedelics like LSD. The amount of atropine required for such a 'trip' is very close to the amount which can kill you. Unfortunately, working from plant matter makes it very difficult to gauge the dosage. Drinking Datura tea is very much like playing Russian roulette. It could have little effect, it could produce a visionary experience, it could make you very ill, or very likely it could kill you.
Speaking to Werner, a mate of mine who is a expert when it comes to flying in ones very own home, i asked if he has ever delt with that plant u said, he said he is not 100%, however, there is a substitute close by and easy to find, it is called Amanita muscaria, he said he as a few interesting times on that stuff. but he warned NOT to play around with the mushroom if you dont know what you are doing due to the fact, you can end up 6 feet under.
but before anyone jumps to magic mushrooms, these contain NO psilocybin...
about the ban of spice and also Genie (which was found out to be 3x stronger than spice Diamond *pretty impressive*)
i think germany was the first country to launch an indepth science investigation on the stuff.
they found some synthetic cannabinoid's in the extracts they use to spray the herbs (not from cannabis tho!) after they found and anounced they found their first one called JWH-018, it did not take long till the other member of the family came along CP-47,497, HU-210
so sadly they decided to ban it and put it on the drugs list =/
they now have a substitute call 'Space', but i would like to let people know, YES, it is produced by the company that produce SPICE, put is actually just a placebo: same shit, but with no effects.
so if u see it,, dont be fooled
if anyone was going to ask me, i would say stick with the good old green, and spread the feeling of love and peace. haha
// BTW, if anyone does want to try Amanita muscaria, please do some home work on it before hand.... thank you//
-Marilyn
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When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed.
I would definately have to advise against the ingestion of Datura by any medium. As Mequa already pointed out it is highly toxic and can kill you very easily.
Salvia can be fun, but you have no what you are getting into, have respect for it, and be in the right mindset. Of course, the same can be said for any hallucinogen.
Now onto the Amanita Muscaria. These are indeed a very strange mushroom. Unlike most "magic mushrooms" the Amanita Muscaria doesn't contain psilocybin or psilocin. The active ingredient in the Fly-Agaric is Muscimol. A substance that when ingested is metabolized into a chemical similar to LSA. It is this lack of psilocybin that makes the Amanita Muscaria legal to cultivate, posess, sell, consume etc.*
Today you really won't find to many people using this mushroom to get high because there is often a period of sickness before any feeling of euphoria, and believe me it doesn't feel to to great. As such, people will tend to stick to the psilocybin variety of mushrooms. However, if you can get passed the sickness, these mushrooms provide some really vivid dreams and are helpful for a person trying to undertake a lucid dream.
There is another variety of Amanita; the Amanita Phalloid, common refered to as a death cap or death angel. The novice mushroom picker can often mistake this for a non-lethal mushroom. The problem with eating these mushrooms is you often won't notice anything is wrong until it is too late. It can take up to a week for the posion to work its' way through your blood stream and shut down your liver.
As the person above me already stated it is best to your homework before eating Amanita Muscarias, or any psychedelic mushroom. http://www.erowid.org is a great resource to find out just about anything you could want to find out, about just about any drug; illicit or otherwise.
* The laws regarding Amanitas may very depending on your locale. The link I provided has a section dedicated to the classification status of different substances through out the world.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
We have Daytura growing down this way as well, nicknamed "Devil's Trumpet"
In the late 80's,a friend of mine and one of his mates came up with the not so brilliant idea of brewing up a tea out of it, and seeing what happened....
My mate reckons he came out of an insane psychosis (that he can't remember anything about} roughly 72hrs later. The house was trashed, he'd cut himself and there was blood everywhere, there were big bites taken out of the cake of soap in the bathroom, and he'd also pissed and shat himself. He was covered in bruises too, and there was no sign of his mate that he'd drunk the tea with. He thought that he had accidently killed him, and was too scared to search the house.
It ended up that the friend had left and got up to god knows what, leaving my mate locked in the house as he felt he was safer there- bloody crazy.
They are both so stupid, and SO lucky to be alive, though I don't think my mate has ever been quite the same since he put himself through that trip.
Definitely one to avoid like the plague, unless you have a deep-seated death-wish.
Jimsonweed grows everywhere here... I had never heard about it until some local kid killed himself smoking it...
All I could think is that the evil plant Cannabis is a class 1 narcotic but this shit is growing in free reach of everybody... Guess jimsonweed does not threaten the textile industry as hemp does...
On Saliva I myself have watched quite a bit of youtube videos and can tell you this... My girl has seizures not always Grand Mal (falling down shaking)... Some look curiously like a Saliva trip... Maybe I am finally acting my age because I cannot see the want to try this...
~T~
Do what you will, stay safe or die...
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy
"Jimson Weed" is more in your neck of the woods, I believe, Ta2zz... This is Datura Stramonium, a little different... NOT!
(that was my Borat joke of the day)
It is quite literally a "weed", and will grow in any soil whatsoever, even out of broken concrete. It's a badass, and should be respected as such, and left alone. It is, however, an aesthetically appealing plant to me, its strength, its deadliness, and its beauty. The night-blooming flowers are quite wonderful - upon which one should look, only.
Here, they mow the lawns next to the major roads and highways, when they do this, they spew little tiny Datura seeds all over the southwest. It's too hard to control, and I guess people that actually try this insane concoction either die, or completely freak out... its potential for "abuse" is obviously self-contained.
Now if it wasn't that bad for you, alleviated nausea and chemotherapy-induced anorexia, and by chance made you feel good... then we have an issue of National security...
As for Amanita... as I've said before, as head of the HHHQ, it's best to leave the free and wild alone, this post was originally about "Legal Smoking Herbs", we don't need criminalization of other plants out there, just enjoying themselves. (Salvia divinorum, a nice secret for enthusiasts, is now on the radar because of some stupid fools on youtube, I hope it was worth it.)
Besides, you "can't" cultivate it (the Mario Mushroom), not because of any "laws", unless it is the little understood "law" of the Amanita itself. It is wild, the way a shark cannot be kept in captivity for very long.
Brothers and Sisters, let my plant friends be!
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Besides, you "can't" cultivate it (the Mario Mushroom), not because of any "laws", unless it is the little understood "law" of the Amanita itself. It is wild, the way a shark cannot be kept in captivity for very long.
I disagree with you here. While mushrooms are a fairly difficult thing to grow, because of the fact conditions have to be perfect; Amanitas, as well as pretty much any other fungus, can be grown quite easily by a person who has a seriously vested interest in mycology.With all of the readily available "home grow mushroom kits", the need for autoclaves and syringes are pretty much obosolete.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Amanitas, as well as pretty much any other fungus, can be grown quite easily by a person who has a seriously vested interest in mycology.With all of the readily available "home grow mushroom kits", the need for autoclaves and syringes are pretty much obosolete.
Amanita can only grow when certains trees are in the immediate environnement. I know the dutch name, but the english term is flipped out of my memory..
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You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain.
They tend to grow near pine trees, but are not limited to those locations. If one wanted to grow the Amitas themselves, it wouldn't be impossible. Maybe a little taxing and time consuming, but not impossible.
The properties of what ever medium you are using that the spores will propogate into mycellium in, as well as the actual growing environment; can be manipulated to create the appropriate conditions.
There are alot of Amanitas here in the North West, I myself have grown Cubensis, as well as maintained a patch of Cyanescens for the last 4 years. Though I myself have never grown the Amanita variety, I do know that it is possible.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Yes, I am an avid, novice mycologist... cubensis and cyanescens hold much interest for me, as do Portabella and Shitake...
I was, however, led to believe, that it was actually quite difficult, no, impossible, to grow the Amanita varieties, more specific the "Muscaria" or "Fly Agaric" in a "controlled environment". But no one needs to know "how" that may be possible, except me, of course...
PM, not public domain... no more need to mention such a silly notion such as "mycelium", whatever that is...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
joseph oreillyjoseph oreilly
Incomprehensible--Banned
pledge
Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 58
Originally Posted By: daevid777
Yes, I am an avid, novice mycologist... cubensis and cyanescens hold much interest for me, as do Portabella and Shitake...
I was, however, led to believe, that it was actually quite difficult, no, impossible, to grow the Amanita varieties, more specific the "Muscaria" or "Fly Agaric" in a "controlled environment". But no one needs to know "how" that may be possible, except me, of course...
PM, not public domain... no more need to mention such a silly notion such as "mycelium", whatever that is...
Compress peyote in a vice into small blocks and bong it.
Another bullshit reply, folks... please don't even think of doing this... peyote is an "endangered species" in my book. It takes twenty years to mature from seed into any kind of usable form. Stupid ass joy-bangers would be killing an entity probably older than themselves for many hours of nausea and vomiting, followed by shit they'll never truly comprehend, even if that was the "goal".
Leave it alone.
There's mescaline, and there's mescaline... don't mess with this little beauty, you can't handle it anyway.
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
Registered: 02/26/09
Posts: 157
Loc: No. Utah. USA
Speaking as the voice of experience, stay away from the jimson weed! It is very potentially deadly. A large group of friends and I ate the pod seed when in high school. It almost killed us. We all ended up in the hospital. I will say though, once you get past the trying to die part, the trip is intense. The most radical hallucinations I have ever experienced. But that being said, the potential lethal possibility and nasty side effects are not worth the high nor the risk...
Roger.
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We can't stop here, this is bat country!
I have heard about this Datura root. I know it is extremely potent and dangerous. I have experienced wild dreams after ingesting only a single seed. One of the dangers of this plant is its power to dehydrate anyone who ingests it. A young person who took a large amount on a completely empty stomach wound up with dessicated intestines that had to be removed. If anyone decides to take this stuff, I suggest drinking copious amounts of water with it. Have a nice trip.
I do remember trying a substance called trip tastic, it was meant to have been a legal alternative to LSD however the effect was more like speed. Ive also tried somthing called Druids which i found was alot better for me gave me a light fuzzy feeling.
Registered: 03/26/09
Posts: 19
Loc: Hills of Appalachia.
Originally Posted By: L Fern Tej
you're mistaken noc. The only reason why marijuana isn't notorious for causing cancer is because much more people smoke cigarettes then marijuana.
I'm fairly confident that if there was even ONE case in which smoking cannabis was the direct cause of lung cancer, the anti-drug people would be parading the streets with their corpse however there hasn't been one and there haven't been any parades.
The only thing wrong with smoking cannabis is that you are inhaling burning plant matter into your lungs; there is nothing about cannabis itself that causes problems for your lungs or causes cancer. Still the already minimal effects can be eliminated by using a vaporizer which eliminates 90% (roughly) of the harmful effects associated with smoking.
Quote:
It has been proven that the burning of marijuana releases tar, carbon monoxide, and cyanide
Finding certain chemicals in certain samples can be caused for a variety of reasons and depend on how the crop is grown. For example you find nitrogen and ammonia in certain fertilizers thus if your cannabis tested for these two chemicals you could have just over-fertilized your crop and it could be residue. Cyanide is found in pesticides, so again if you test a sample and it contains amounts of cyanide, it could be how it was grown. It doesn’t take a grower to know that marijuana grown organically would be healthier for you than marijuana grown by corporations.
I would like to see more tests though in this area.
Even still, all of that can be greatly reduced by using a vape.
Quote:
However, the recent mental health scares surrounding Skunk are likely to act as a major obstacle to the legalisation of cannabis.
What mental health studies? Sources? Links?
I’m curious. By skunk, are just referencing marijuana itself or do you mean the specific strain skunk?
Quote:
I find it very odd that the Government outlaws a legal plant thats been here since the dawn of time, that has no side effects that I'm aware of besides eating everything in sight,,,
I’m not. It’s a way of controlling groups the state considers threatening. Chomsky had some pretty interesting ideas on this.
Quote:
And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia. She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty. When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea into my angel's head".
How do you know she didn’t just have some pre-existing psychological disorder that was dormant for most of her life? There is nothing in cannabis itself that inherently makes one go crazy.
There is a bunch of cases were people who’ve never done a drug have concocted crazy ideas like the person you have met. If anything I would say her smoking cannabis didn’t help her but I think it’s silly to say her use of cannabis caused her to “have all the symptoms of schizophrenia.”
For that matter how do you know she does? Did you take her to a shrink? Are you a qualified psychologist/psychiatrist?
I’ve used cannabis for a number of years, everyday, multiple times a day and have had no adverse psychological effects, in fact I think it’s had a more positive effects if anything. But as one member said, everyone is different and every drug effects everyone differently.
I may respond to more of the thread, I may not.
As for legal substances, I like and often use kratom and am an everyday user of snuff.
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"Why not whip the teacher when the pupil misbehaves?"-Diogenes of Sinope.
Quote: And yes, I've met someone in her 40s who has been a regular heavy user since her early teens. She has developed all of the symptoms of schizophrenia. She has developed illusions of having personal links to many celebrities and royalty. When her teenage kid started stealing her pot, she went into a rage attack at some friends of his - accusing them of "putting the idea
Hmm. My parents are hippies from the 60's. They are now in their 60's. They have smoked the wacky weed since they were teens. Every day. As a kid, I remember my dad picking leaves and putting them in the oven to dry them out. I remember plants in the house. They used to smoke it right in front of me, until my younger siblings came along. Then they kind of tried to hide it. So after 40 years of smoking, they are still sane and normal. They still hold down jobs, own a house, and contribute. I bet they fired up today. They are coherent, sane, and have a 60's view on life. Even though they are nearing retirement, they still toke and work and continue to guide me and my siblings.
I would have to say your 40yo friend was alreay psycho. It just took a push to get her there. Be it pot, movies, cats, whatever. She was already on that path. The signs were probably there all along, but ignored. Until someone(you)equated smoking weed to her mental problems.
For the record, I do not smoke weed. I tried it as a youth a couple of times but didn't like it. However, I support the movement to make it legal.
_________________________ Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.
UPDATE: Looks like Spice Diamond has gone up in price locally to me, from £20 to £25. The weaker Spice blends are still £20 (although my local shop doesn't stock Silver, only Diamond, Gold, Arctic Synergy and Tropical Synergy). Also, the pre-rolled Spice 'joints' are now proving very difficult to get hold of.
There is a shop called "Happy High Herbs" in Sydney that stocks a herb called 'Damiana'.
It's meant to be really useful for aiding people to give up pot due to it's relaxative/calmative effects, and can be smoked, or brewed as a tea.
I tried it in tea form, and it did have a 'warm and fuzzy' effect on me, but it gave me a severe case of the wees, which leads me to believe that it may have strong diuretic qualities as well.
So, all in all, feeling euphoric but having to go for a piss constantly kind of wrecked the whole experience.
Good luck with that... Here in the states you can find Damiana at most good health food stores... It has a very mild relaxing effect and would be better for you (and have the same effect) if you made it into a tea... From what I remember it had a taste that left something to be desired as well...
~T~
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We are the music makers, And we are the dreamers of dreams. ~Arthur William Edgar O'Shaughnessy
I wonder how the effect of Damiana in a vaporizer would compare to that in a tea?
As for smoking, fuck that - not a healthy option.
My local hippie store sells all kinds of herbs, including wormwood, which are labeled as "Not for internal use, for use in magical spells only". I found it difficult to keep a straight face upon reading that.
I went to an occult shop in Hollywood that had wormwood for sale with the same label. I too found it a little hard to keep a straight face. One cool thing I did see though was a goat skull. I was going to buy it, but when I returned on payday, someone had already beat me to it. Curse you unknown stranger!
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
"Temporary Insanity" is the best description of the effects of any drug.
If only because you are not in the same mental state as those under the "imperialist rule" ideology. You are outside the "norm", the "healthy", the "clean"... "Unsanitary" = "insane". Against the rules.
The body has a great way of correcting such instances, and bringing you "back" to a more regulated state, this includes the mind.
Homeostasis.
Schizophrenia induced by Marijuana? I don't believe this for a second. I venture to say, this is not possible.
The problem is that drug users, and drug abusers are condemned to the same category. Some people just like to get high! Others have a deep need for something, and they are already disturbed... they try to "self-medicate", and their problem can go unnoticed.
Burying a problem - however temporarily satisfactory, does not cure. It alleviates, temporarily. Homeostasis. Then you're back to you... crazy you. This is the problem. Crazy people self-medicating. Schizophrenics not knowing what's what. "Weed" might "help" them... but this is temporary. And never, ever steal a Schizophrenic's weed stash! Now you're crazy!
The only physical problem I see, with medical training, and as Chief Homeland Herbal Quality Control Chief... is the "smoking" process. Smoking damages lungs, people. This is the only main health concern, besides driving while intoxicated, which shouldn't be happening in any event. Also, there is a possibility of a kind of "burn out"... "demotivation"... which can be an issue if you let it. I mean, you can't just sit around eating Oreos and playing Wii...
Anyway...
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Where we're going, we don't need roads.
"Temporary Insanity" is the best description of the effects of any drug.
If only because you are not in the same mental state as those under the "imperialist rule" ideology. You are outside the "norm", the "healthy", the "clean"... "Unsanitary" = "insane". Against the rules.
That is true. However, there are drugs out there that are socially acceptable and many of them are taken with the hopes of one attaining that "healthy" and "clean" state which is also the "norm".
Originally Posted By: daevid777
The problem is that drug users, and drug abusers are condemned to the same category.
Yes, the people who abuse drugs make the people who use them look bad. Surely any drug can be used responsibly, even though some may be harder than other to use responsibly, but there are also has to come a point where you know limits. Once you feel like you "need" this substance one must take a step back and get their priorities straight.
Originally Posted By: daevid777
The only physical problem I see, with medical training, and as Chief Homeland Herbal Quality Control Chief... is the "smoking" process. Smoking damages lungs, people.
This is why man invented the vaporizer. Designed to heat up just enough to utilize the THC in bud while reducing the amount of plant matter burned and inhaled which causes the damage to the lungs. Also helps conserve the product by "burning" longer and getting you higher.
Originally Posted By: daevid777
Also, there is a possibility of a kind of "burn out"... "demotivation"... which can be an issue if you let it.
Exactly, if you let it.
Originally Posted By: daevid777
I mean, you can't just sit around eating Oreos and playing Wii...
Of course you can. But if you are 21 and still live with your parents, well, I think you get the point.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Jimsonweed grows everywhere here... I had never heard about it until some local kid killed himself smoking it...
All I could think is that the evil plant Cannabis is a class 1 narcotic but this shit is growing in free reach of everybody... Guess jimsonweed does not threaten the textile industry as hemp does...
On Saliva I myself have watched quite a bit of youtube videos and can tell you this... My girl has seizures not always Grand Mal (falling down shaking)... Some look curiously like a Saliva trip... Maybe I am finally acting my age because I cannot see the want to try this...
~T~
Do what you will, stay safe or die...
I hear that Salvia only lasts for 5-10 minutes, and it makes you sick afterwards. I don't see why anybody would want to try it either. The government is already buckling down on the legal status of it anyways, it's now illegal to sell in my state. Shame, as I regularly used it as incense.
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~Satanism~ The cream cheese to my atheistic bagel.
Registered: 09/27/09
Posts: 62
Loc: sebastopol, CA
Your topic of conversation has certainly sparked my interest. I've always thought that there were alternatives to cannabis and tobacco that achieve similar sensations. I think I'm going to give salvia another chance, myself.
Hurry up. Local governments in the States have caught on to this, and are working to pass legislation to make it illegal too. It won't be too much longer until this one is on the "no-no" list in all 50 states.
_________________________ Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.
Hope this isn't one of those dead threads that i am reviving to peoples displeasure.......(dosen't apear to be but u never can truly tell) Anyways I personally have tried several phycoacitave substanses that needless to say were very eyeopening. The most recent of which was Ketamine. I was in a terrible bike wreak with a drunk driver about 6 months ago and really should have not come away as good as i did from it. The doctors treating me gave me a large dose of the anesethic due to the fact that i had lost a lot of blood and were afarid more common ones might kill me. Needless to say i had a very intense trip that i wont bore you with the details now. (but if u are interested contact me on msn and i'll talk all day about it XD ) The other that I feel is worth noteing is morning glory seeds. The use of this was very much intentional unlike the other. while i did experince some very negative side effects from them (sat over the toilet for over an hour) the strength of them suprised me for them being completly legal and easy to come by. Probably the closest thing to acid one can legaly get. Very worthwile in my opinion even with all the vomit.
i was going to cite erowid as a good resourse for nonbiased information on drugs but it appears some beat me to the punchlie already But here is the site again anyways http://www.erowid.org
while i do not condem drug use in the slightest all i really ask is that if you chose to indulge in mindaltering substance PLEASe INFORM YOURSELF ON THEE EFFECTS. At least haveing an idea of what may occur cold turn a bad trip into a wonderful mindblowing one. And please out of the courtsey of my and everyone elses saftey do use and drive. My broken arm and leg are testement to the stupidity of such recklessness.
Edited by Coyote Junkie (02/10/1001:37 AM)
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In the province of the mind, what one believes to be true either is true or becomes true. Jonh Lilly
Not so proud to be able to say; been there, done that... Proud to say; not doing it tomorrow.
I am now 6 feet 10, 220 lbs. At my all time low I weighed in at 127 lbs...
Listen to the words of the wise man: Afterword to the novel "A Scanner Darkly" by Philip K. Dick.
This has been a novel about some people who were punished entirely too much for what they did. They wanted to have a good time, but they were like children playing in the street; they could see one after another of them being killed—run over, maimed, destroyed—but they continued to play anyhow. We really all were very happy for a while, sitting around not toiling but just bullshitting and playing, but it was for such a terrible brief time, and then the punishment was beyond belief: even when we could see it, we could not believe it…. For a while I myself was one of these children playing in the street; I was, like the rest of them, trying to play instead of being grown up, and I was punished. I am on the list below, which is a list of those to whom this novel is dedicated, and what became of each.
Drug misuse is not a disease, it is a decision, like the decision to step out in front of a moving car. You would call that not a disease but an error in judgment. When a bunch of people begin to do it, it is a social error, a life-style. In this particular life-style the motto is “Be happy now because tomorrow you are dying.” But the dying begins almost at once, and the happiness is a memory. It is, then, only a speeding up, an intensifying, of the ordinary human existence. It is not different from your life-style, it is only faster. It all takes place in days or weeks or months instead of years. “Take the cash and let the credit go,” as Villon said in 1460. But that is a mistake if the cash is a penny and the credit a whole lifetime.
There is no moral in this novel; it is not bourgeois; it does not say they were wrong to play when they should have toiled; it just tells what the consequences were. In Greek drama they were beginning, as a society, to discover science, which means causal law. Here in this novel there is Nemesis: not fate, because any one of us could have chosen to stop playing in the street, but, as I narrate from the deepest part of my life and heart, a dreadful Nemesis for those who kept on playing. So, though, was our entire nation at this time. This novel is about more people than I knew personally. Some we all read about in the newspapers. It was, this sitting around with our buddies and bullshitting while making tape-recordings, the bad decision of the decade, the sixties, both in and out of the establishment. And nature cracked down on us. We were forced to stop by things dreadful.
If there was any ‘sin’, it was that these people wanted to keep on having a good time forever, and were punished for that, but, as I say, I feel that, if so, the punishment was far too great, and I prefer to think of it only in a Greek or morally neutral way, as mere science, as deterministic impartial cause-and-effect. I loved them all. Here is the list, to whom I dedicate my love:
* To Gaylene deceased * To Ray deceased * To Francy permanent psychosis * To Kathy permanent brain damage * To Jim deceased * To Val massive permanent brain damage * To Nancy permanent psychosis * To Joanne permanent brain damage * To Maren deceased * To Nick deceased * To Terry deceased * To Dennis deceased * To Phil permanent pancreatic damage * To Sue permanent vascular damage * To Jerri permanent psychosis and vascular damage
…and so forth.
In Memoriam. These were comrades whom I had; there are no better. They remain in my mind, and the enemy will never be forgiven. The ‘enemy’ was their mistake in playing. Let them all play again, in some other way, and let them be happy.
Thank you for your attention. Do what thou wilt, but be aware of the consequences.
LOL the multiple brands of spice has nearly doubled it seems here in the US because of the ability to get high of it and it doesn't show on a U.A. Perfect for our service members. Currently in hawaii next to the base a smoke shop has nearly trippled its profits from soldiers buying these alternatives.
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Get off the cross and save yourself, I feel no pity for the cries of a weak man.
In a former life I was heavy user of natural substances like marijauna, lsd, peyote, datura. I despised alcohol for the rampant harm it caused in my life from external sources so chose to medicate my hyper-activity with mostly pot as a young person. The condition was actually diagnosed as hyper-thyroidism later on and almost killed me as its not something guys were prone to having back then and went unchecked. As I got older these substances became increasingly detrimental to my actual life and I disposed of most of them and took up drinking instead, that was just icky. I suppose I've done just about everything out there at one time or another and granted there were a few peak experiences and I am glad I had them. After my nde I could no longer ingest any of these substances and be ok with it so all were dropped from my life. I began to involve myself heavily with my studies of the LHP at that point and have never looked back. I do not condone the use of hard drugs but have nothing against pot-almost everyone in this country smokes the stuff and it is probably one of the largest industries in Canada. What is its use for the LHP magician? I would say very little at all for the reason that it inhibits Clarity of thought quite efficiently. I can also say with some validity that the peak experiences I had with drugs are Nothing compared to the peak experiences I have with my Self on the LHP. But I also respect the desire folks have to seek that mystery of what they might be missing. I can say this but it will likely not mean much-there is Nothing you will experience with drugs that you do not already possess the capacity to Experience within your Self while clean and focused. It is much more difficult but far more rewarding and! you will remember your experience in its entirety.I haven't tried any of these new spice "drugs", made myself incredibly sick on morning glory seeds once, but question the efficacy of pursuing -not being my Self while practicing Black Magic and Desiring a deep connection to the Source. Love the PKD quote btw.
It seems that "Spice" is now a generic name for various artificially-produced marijuana substitutes.
The original Spice (and its variants, including the stronger Spice Gold and Spice Diamond), once openly available from the high street, was banned in the UK the end of last year, after forensic lab tests revealed it contained synthetic cannabinoids including JWH-018. It is now as illegal as real cannabis.
Products like 'Spice' which contain synthetic cannabinoids are Class B controlled drugs. This means that it is against the law to possess them, to give them away or to sell them. Possession can get you five years in prison and/or an unlimited fine. Supplying can get you fourteen years in prison and or an unlimited fine.
However, some other Spice-like products are still available in the UK, some almost as effective as Spice itself. These may also contain synthetic cannabinoids, and if so will also face a ban after facing the forensic scientist's lab.
Salvia divinorum remains legal in the UK, including its highly potent extracts. This is because the psychoactive chemical, Salvinorin A, has a very different chemical structure and way of affecting the brain to other hallucinogenic drugs (hence its much shorter duration), so it is not covered by current drug laws. Past attempts to ban the drug failed to make it through Parliament, as it was not seen to be of sufficient concern.
Edited by Meq (03/07/1004:53 PM) Edit Reason: Added more on Salvia divinorum and JWH-018.
LOL the multiple brands of spice has nearly doubled it seems here in the US because of the ability to get high of it and it doesn't show on a U.A. Perfect for our service members. Currently in hawaii next to the base a smoke shop has nearly trippled its profits from soldiers buying these alternatives.
the only thing is commanders are threatening immediate discharge for anyone caught with any type anywhere, but another down side to these herbs is the have about 5 times the cancer causing agents in them (i don't know the exact amount i would have to look it up again but it is high) Me personally believe in getting high on such things as suspensions/ skydiving/ piercings/ tattoos your body has some of the best drugs in it that will get you higher than you could imagine even hallucinogens you just have to find the right way to release them and also they are never going to be able to make that illegal because it delves in to religious beliefs and rights.
I have tried a few, the first one that I tried gave me a bad " trip" the first 20 minutes then I calmed down and experienced strong laughter. The other ones I tried gave me a chilled out feeling just enough to relax, enjoy the music, have a nice buzz while still able to stimulate a proper thought process.
I dont belive in particularly the use of drugs. However if used in control, with indulgence and not compulsion I have found positive results with a few of these legal alternatives. On the other hand "SPICE" is too expensive for my tastes, therefore I shall stick with alcohol.
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
Well, I have to tell you a funny story here ...
Back in 1972, when I was on the faculty of the U.S. Army Armor School at Fort Knox, there was the usual soldiers' drug problem on post, which upset the Commanding General. So he had a booklet printed up & distributed to all the troops detailing the evils of pot, LSD, heroin, cocaine, etc. Somewhere amidst all these dire warnings indignant mention was made that some degenerates even got zonked by making tea out of morning glory seeds. Imagine that!
Do I need to tell you what happened? All of the garden shops for miles around Knox were suddenly swamped with [perfectly legal!] orders & purchases of you-guessed-it. Resulting, subsequently, in a U.S. Army request to all of them up to Louisville saying please please don't fill these orders; Fort Knox has, well, all the pretty flowers it needs.
I don't think the warning booklet mentioned dried banana peels, or there would doubtless have been a run on bananas at the commissary.
I have to admit I was one of those kids that heard the rumor of dried banana peels back in the day and tried it. No success. Although it sounds absurd that people even try to use such a thing, the fact that people nowadays get high on plant fertilizer (meow meow) shows it wasn't that weird after all.
Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
At about the same time, the emergency rooms in Salt Lake City saw an influx of people who had tried to get zonked by injecting themselves with, if you can believe this, diluted peanut butter. Caused cardiac arrest, which I guess is a sort of high.
The most amusing thing I heard this year was a dealer who got caught on a music festival wearing small flasks of nitrous oxide. Yes it is used as a drug here; filling balloons and selling those. It however created a problem for the cops because the gas in itself is not on the drug list. They solved it because one needs a permit to transport it, and in that way, could punish the dealer.
In a similar vein, I bought some ground nutmeg from a supermarket about a year ago after hearing it was psychoactive in relatively large doses (Malcolm X reportedly used it while incarcerated, because what prison guard is going to confiscate fucking nutmeg?) I believe the active ingredient is called myristicin, (I didnt really care), and after taking instruction from a couple of webpages, I consumed three tablespoons mixed with milk and a little sugar....and after three hours, became naseous and paranoid. Awesome, thanks nutmeg. I was at home alone, so I staved off the waiting period by playing a litle guitar, an it took me a while to realise how loud and excited I was getting, which I assumed was also due to the nutmeg. The curtains and walls seemed to be billowing a little, but that wasn't as interesting/cool as it was unsettling. Theres something appealing about buying something in a supermarket/garden centre and getting high off it (and pot is so fucking expensive in Ireland that anythings worth a try), but it all seems to suck so hard that sales of hawaiian baby woodrose, morning glory, nutmeg, etc., are not to my knowledge monitored. If anyones paying attention, its probably the clerks keeping an eye on who buys what so they can follow the strung out looking dude leafing through the seed packets by the aloe vera so they can laugh, and maybe go for a post-work pint.
Edited by Dedalus (08/19/1003:07 PM)
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Let us represent worthily for once the foul brood to which a cruel fate consigned us.
All the legal alternatives are crap at best and downright dangerous at the worst. The UK has very recently banned the sale of Spice and other products like it as it was resulting in numerous trips to the emergency room. Just the other day there was incident in a town about 2 hours from where I live where a teenager was sent to the hospital because he decided to smoke this "legal marijuana". Just stick to the real stuff; though it may be illegal it is MUCH safer. Unless you are allergic to it.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Down here, where it is semi-legal to use, we don't really know that stuff. We only got the "real" version but the THC values are slowly going through the roof. What could start as a pleasant experience can easily turn into a nasty one if you buy the wrong kind, or don't know what you are buying.
I dislike the stuff and the smell is so horrible, I feel like strangling a hippie when being subject to it too long.
...THC values are slowly going through the roof.What could start as a pleasant experience can easily turn into a nasty one if you buy the wrong kind, or don't know what you are buying.
Just out of curiosity, what sort of "nasty" experiences have you heard people claiming that were the result of smoking pot? I have had some of the strongest stuff you could imagine and I cant imagine how such a thing as a "bad trip" on weed can occur. I mean, I can see someone having a bad experience with really strong LSD or mushroom, but weed? That really just sounds like propaganda from the good old Partnership for a Drug Free America and their buddies at the ONDCP. Reefer Madness, anyone?
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Nope, it is possible to get bad effects but it isn't the same for all. My roomie in the previous place was smoking some weed with his new g/f and while she didn't experience bad effects at all, he experienced them all the more. Physically sick, paralyzed, even mild psychosis. At one point they were ready to go to the emergency room but they got it under control. It was enough for him to never use weed again. It isn't the only account I heard of bad experiences.
I myself drop like a brick when smoking weed. I get sick, become semi-paralyzed for about half an hour to an hour, and then recover completely. Not my idea of a good time. I however don't suffer it from Hash which is strange. Still, that makes me sleepy which also isn't what I see as recreational.
I don't know what quality you got there but when we cross borders and go to the coffee shop, we can select out of at least a dozen choices. The outdoor grown stuff however is rather harmless, we consider it tramp-weed. Only a poor ass would even smoke that shit.
You get sick? That is odd, especially since it is used to by chemo patients to quell their nausea. Nor have I have ever heard of anyone getting paralyzed from it. If I ever go to Belgium I will make sure to bring my own.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Yeah better bring your own. THC levels in Dutch weed are quite high; on average 16% compared to 6% in other countries. It isn't the THC because it is higher in hash than in normal weed so I should suffer the same effects there.
I guess I haven't got enough hippie inside me to handle that stuff.
I guess I haven't got enough hippie inside me to handle that stuff.
Now that is just plain rude!;)
It might be due to a half-assed flushing job. I've gotten a headache from stuff that was treated with a chemical fertilizer and was not flushed properly before being harvested. That is the only thing I think could cause any real problems for someone.
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Ultimate Satanic Bad Ass of Ultimate Satanic Bad Assery PhD Esq. LLC Inc.^∞ DCLXVI°
Na, I tried it a couple of times since I was a teenager and each time I encountered the same pleasure. When I was a teen, it could have been because of shitty weed but nowadays you really have to be lucky to even find bad stuff here. That's one of the advantages of having it taken out of illegality.
At about the same time, the emergency rooms in Salt Lake City saw an influx of people who had tried to get zonked by injecting themselves with, if you can believe this, diluted peanut butter. Caused cardiac arrest, which I guess is a sort of high.
I used to live in Salt Lake City myself, I found it quite hilarious at such stupidity as to injecting oneself with peanutbutter. Social Darwainism at it's best I think!
