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#118555 - 02/12/19 12:00 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: samowens84]
aeon6 Offline
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Registered: 04/16/18
Posts: 227
Loc: KÝbenhavn, Denmark
It's a whimsical and curious cinematic feat.
What is unrevealed is the computer entity's origin, likely deliberate. They seem to have hypnotized reverance for their own creation, if indeed it's theirs. Sort of like phones today. But I doubt, or maybe I shouldn't, that they can suffice as an oracle. Newer oracles come about, which have nothing to do with electronics or socialism. Tap IN.

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#118556 - 02/12/19 12:34 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: aeon6]
TheOperator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 25
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, United States
 Originally Posted By: samowens84
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=aboZctrHfK8

This is what I think. The answer to life, the universe, and everything!
Awesome movie!
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"The real Satanist is not quite so easily recognized as such." Anton LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#118558 - 02/12/19 12:56 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: TheOperator]
Spida Offline
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Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 105
Loc: Maine
God is a fairly ambiguous term that the interpretation of such is primarily subjective per individual; group. Outside of any particular context I don't see it having any specific meaning. Given its' general purpose definition, and I won't even bother look it up. I do not have belief in such a thing; most certainly anything pertaining to blind faith.

Maybe it's just me, but Quantum Mechanics, and its' associated existence; experiments appears somewhat of an intermediary between General Science and mysticism - or God. Whereas at least you have a bit of method to the madness.

Scientists for numerous reasons will not use the term "God", but when they say things such as : at the time of creation all of the four fundamental forces of nature were unified into a single Superforce. It sounds a bit to me like that's what they are getting at. Without coming right out and callling it God - might cost them either their job and/or reputation.

God is mostly cringeworthy to me given its' most generally applied meaning. I prefer something more along the lines of infinite consciousness. At least consciousness is something that is experienced, and it seems rational for one to inquire of its' nature; source.
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#118560 - 02/12/19 01:32 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Spida]
TheOperator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 25
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, United States
 Originally Posted By: Spida
God is a fairly ambiguous term that the interpretation of such is primarily subjective per individual; group. Outside of any particular context I don't see it having any specific meaning. Given its' general purpose definition, and I won't even bother look it up. I do not have belief in such a thing; most certainly anything pertaining to blind faith.

Except that it isn't. God is a term that has been defined time and time again, though the characteristics of god have not yet been defined (because you cannot give definite characteristics to something that doesn't exist) the actual term has been given a meaning.

That being said, if we're going to start making silly claims (and I'm not saying you're making this claim but I just want to shut this door before it opens) that "god" has as many definitions as there are people defining it, then we might as well not even talk about god at all. If there cannot be a solid definition of what god is then there's no use in discussing it.

This is often a tactic used by Christian apologists, theists, and even many deists. You can't prove someone wrong about god if they don't even define what god is. It's a slippery, weasel-y tactic that I don't have much respect for, but it's out there.

 Originally Posted By: Spida
Maybe it's just me, but Quantum Mechanics, and its' associated existence; experiments appears somewhat of an intermediary between General Science and mysticism - or God. Whereas at least you have a bit of method to the madness.
There are some interesting things happening in quantum mechanics, but the claim that it's bridging the gap between science and "god," or even mysticism, is totally baseless. Lack of an explanation, once again, does not then beg a supernatural explanation.

 Originally Posted By: Spida
Scientists for numerous reasons will not use the term "God", but when they say things such as : at the time of creation all of the four fundamental forces of nature were unified into a single Superforce. It sounds a bit to me like that's what they are getting at. Without coming right out and calling it God - might cost them either their job and/or reputation.
Most of the scientists who don't believe in god don't use the word god because they don't believe in god. Many scientists who are atheists have been misquoted and misrepresented by Christian apologists, but that's another conversation entirely. Einstein was NOT a theist. Stephen Hawking was NOT a theist. End of story. But if you mean that some agnostic leaning scientists refrain from using "god" for this reason; then yes that's maybe plausible.

 Originally Posted By: Spida
God is mostly cringeworthy to me given its' most generally applied meaning. I prefer something more along the lines of infinite consciousness. At least consciousness is something that is experienced, and it seems rational for one to inquire of its' nature; source.
There's still no reason to believe in some infinite consciousness. If you choose to believe in this infinite consciousness despite a complete lack of scientific evidence, more power to you. To each their own. But there's esentially no reason to believe in any god in any way shape or form.


Edited by TheOperator (02/12/19 01:34 AM)
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#118561 - 02/12/19 02:17 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Spida]
CanisMachina42 Offline
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Registered: 08/10/13
Posts: 1475
Loc: Ca
<Zombie Dog Response>

 Quote:
Scientists for numerous reasons will not use the term "God", but when they say things such as : at the time of creation all of the four fundamental forces of nature were unified into a single Superforce. It sounds a bit to me like that's what they are getting at. Without coming right out and callling it God - might cost them either their job and/or reputation.


Then gravity is Satan to God's electronuclear.


What I will never get is why the grand unification  is equal to god? Seems some like a heat/density thing. Maybe it was the being confined to a singulatity?

Where the scientists turn preacher is pre-inflation. The best thing to do is have 'working ideas', which are great because they allow for change. The one i like (now) is Superfluid Vacuum Theory (SVT). Its like if Nun's primordial sea was a physics theory.

Anyway, guessing in ignorance is not a god equivocation and can never be. It holds no absolute and can evolve by trying to invalidate itself.  In fact, the higgs boson is a great fucking example of a good scientific guess that tried to be invalidated or validated depending on your thesis. 

For years it was thought these special particles must give this universe its mass in singularity like levels of heat and energy. Lets build an obnoxious supercollider in Europe!

And they observed Higgs-bosons exist in extremely "big bang like" situations.

There is no initial absolute statements made that arent empirically validated.
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#118562 - 02/12/19 04:32 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: TheOperator]
Spida Offline
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Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 105
Loc: Maine
I suspect that the D = M/V formula is why a zero volume containing any material is said to have infinite density. The context here being a primordial point; singularity. Although I'm not certain what the implications of that are, and it says nothing about consciousness.

Stating that I have belief in "infinite consciousness" is a bit strong as the reality of it is more along the lines of : entertaining the possibility of. Where I merely induct consciousness as part of this primordial zero volume, and of course knowing full well that it may have ultimately emerged as a product of some biosphere later on such as Earth.

So as a process of inducting consciousness into the primordial equation assuming it may require a source, and having nothing else to go on - also there being nothing else in existence - I assign it an infinite value as its' material counterpart. Call it an experiment, exercise, or hypothesis if you will.

So I am aware that some of these are hypothesis, and not supported scientifically, and I apologize if that doesn't stop me.

Lately at times when I briefly ponder the reality of this little corner of creation it scares the shit out of me. Circling this colossal flaming ball of nuclear fusion and fission, and nobody is at the wheel? That's fucking bullshit, but its' been over four billion years and all is well; the goldilocks zone is still just right. So that's reassuring.
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#118563 - 02/12/19 04:33 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: CanisMachina42]
Spida Offline
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Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 105
Loc: Maine
I believe initially I became fixated on pre-big bang conditions as a major focal point and trying to imagine an existence in the absence of space, primarily, and of course also time.

My entire paradigm now has this as its' foundation, and I haven't even considered the multiverse theories(M-theory) as of late. Perhaps it has become inconvenient as it appears to render space(the bulk) as static, infinite, and eternal.

Of course I have come to think of space and time as having a beginning, and hypothesized that consciousness could exist as a zero volume entity as part of an oscillating existence i.e. existence of spacetime; non existence of spacetime.

So I entertained the idea of consciousness creating space and formed a microcosmic analogy. I observed that our own consciousness is somewhat effective at creating four dimensional reality constructs as a dreamscape although obviously nothing on par with the macrocosm, but perhaps the mechanics of the process being similar.

Einstein said reality is an illusion; maybe not what he had in mind - it is quite a stretch I know. Definitely seems to be a lot more, and intricate stuff going on.

As far as the superforce. I may be inclined to call it God maybe if it had a bit more substance, and that would be an exclusive definition. I could do fine without the term God, but it's difficult to do away with it completely.
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#118564 - 02/12/19 05:57 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: CanisMachina42]
Spida Offline
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Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 105
Loc: Maine
 Quote:
Then gravity is Satan to God's electronuclear.


I actually have entertained the idea of different forces as entities(god like) at various times, perhaps now is no different; if energy or nuclear force could be synonymous with consciousness.

None of this or similar may ever be scientifically proven, but in the absence of this it still seems viable to form analogies, and extrapolate.

I suppose one may inquire what the point is; for me it just happens to be an ongoing ritual.
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#118574 - 02/12/19 11:56 AM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Spida]
MindFck Offline
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Registered: 01/24/19
Posts: 31
Science as a method of inquiry based on certain presuppositions is a perfectly fine enterprise. It is like a branch of engineering, at least modern science which is far from the Greek conception of the idea of science.

It has never been the business of science to discover reality as it is, let alone the truth; this becomes evident for a serious mind who bothers to look into the origin of science and its modern idea and practice. Thus, the world-view provided by science, including its understanding of being human, is as unreal and fictional as ancient mythologies and demigods.

Appearance, the world of phenomena etc has its roots in consciousness and not the other way around. This is only recently understood by a few physicists but will be factually established and then communicated to the masses at some point in the future. Then people will understand that the Dark Age never really ended in 15th century but only peaked in the 21st century.


Edited by MindFck (02/12/19 11:57 AM)
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#118578 - 02/12/19 03:49 PM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Spida]
TheOperator Offline
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Registered: 06/24/18
Posts: 25
Loc: Cleveland, Ohio, United States
I hear you completely. I just think that the lack of explanation for a phenomenon does not beg a supernatural being/force to explain it. If we don't know, we don't know. Nothing more.

That being said, if you and other people wish to operate under the belief that there is some force or being running thing behind the scenes I am totally okay with that, so long as we're all careful to explain that there truly is no reason to think these things other than having no explanation for phenomena that puzzle us.

These questions beg answers, but do not beg supernatural explanations - I feel I can't say this enough, not because you, Spida, don't understand it, but because so many people don't.

It's okay to just say, "I don't know and maybe never will" when confronted with something we don't understand.

But I'm totally cool with people holding their own beliefs too, so long as they don't push those beliefs on me.
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#119568 - 07/06/19 08:58 PM Re: Open-Mindedness? [Re: Meq]
RebelCandy777 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/19
Posts: 2
Loc: Canada
[b][/b]
That couldn't have been layed out any better. Cheers! I need to save this post!

Looking at it through a Scientific method, you can't deny nor confirm the existence of god or satan, because there is no way to prove or disprove their existence. But like stated in the Satanic Bible "it is only doubt which will bring mental emancipation.
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#119587 - 07/09/19 06:28 PM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Meq]
Dark One Offline
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Registered: 02/01/18
Posts: 84
 Originally Posted By: Meq


An open mind that demands no evidence will let in an awful lot of rubbish.


'An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.' Liberian from Dawn of War

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#119588 - 07/09/19 06:50 PM Re: Open-Mindedness and Critical Thinking [Re: Dark One]
samowens84 Offline
member


Registered: 09/29/16
Posts: 555
 Originally Posted By: Dark One
 Originally Posted By: Meq


An open mind that demands no evidence will let in an awful lot of rubbish.


'An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded.' Liberian from Dawn of War


I don't know. In some cases an open mind is like a Roman battle plan. Feign a retreat to give the opponents false confidence so that they'll charge higher and higher against the high ground, and once weariness and the sunk cost fallacy takes hold, close the mind again and charge back down the hill again.
When a military opponent is accustomed to a weak adversary, they themselves tend to become weak, lazy and arrogant, with a host of "victories" as more than enough "evidence" of their superiority. So drunk on superiority, often, that thinking seems unnecessary, as simply existing seems enough to "win."


A weakness is often a strength, militarily speaking, if it nurtured humility, genuine moral outrage, acute awareness of one's surroundings and humility and with simple motives like protecting one's family, wife and offspring, in contrast to those who've been culled into imagining that they've already won, completely convinced of "superiority" and so only motivated by money, sadism and greed and moral complacency.

The former always wins.


Edited by samowens84 (07/09/19 06:58 PM)

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