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#25398 - 06/05/09 04:25 PM rule of the earth number 11.
coelentrate Offline
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Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
LaVey said: "When walking in open territory, bother no one. If someone bothers you, ask him to stop. If he does not stop, destroy him."

This is a very tricky thing to do in a society with lots of rules and a big, powerful authority system. I think it would be extremely useful if a lot of people shared and we all got some tools for the tool box. What are some of the ways to deliver swift justice without landing yourself in court? Does anyone know some examples of what LaVey did? What are some things you did?

I've provoked someone to make physically aggressive movements and then "defended myself". That was admittedly risky.

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#25400 - 06/05/09 05:07 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Jake999 Offline
senior member


Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 2230
Well, I can tell you that not too many people bothered LaVey when he was in open territory. He was pretty well known wherever he went, and wherever he went, he went armed. AND he had people like me or "Tony" or others with him who tended to be the business end of his demand that someone get the hell away from him.

But I've seen him physically grab a chair and make ready to take the head off of someone who insulted him in a restaurant. He was a gentleman until it was time NOT to be.
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Bury your dead, pick up your weapon and soldier on.


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#25401 - 06/05/09 05:12 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Jake999]
coelentrate Offline
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Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
There are times I would love to hit someone in the head with a chair, but I think I'd get arrested and sued.
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#25404 - 06/05/09 05:39 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Saligia Offline
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Registered: 05/03/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Manchester, England
It is a difficult one as for the most part the law works on a "justifiable force" basis. It would go against one's own benefit to simply take a Bas Ruttenesque approach and break somebody's limb for a minor insult, as you would probably be looking at severe fines and/or prison (or at least that's how it goes in the UK). Instead I prefer to match an opponent insult for insult and blow for blow and then add just that little bit more, just enough to destroy their ego but without getting myself into trouble.
Of course there's always going to be some asshole who takes it too far and in these cases you just have to stop yourself from injuring them too badly and hope nobody reports you.
I would advise against going out looking for trouble, after all, the 11th rule can be used by other people too.

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#25423 - 06/05/09 10:40 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
The apprpriate response will vary depending on the amount this person is "bothering" you and how. Destrutction doesn't have to be physical. A few choice words can often render a person a speechless as well as make them look like complete fools.

If it gets to the point that you want to use violence a few choice words can also cause a person to take a swing. This allows you to defend yourself i.e. adminster a legally sanctioned beat down.

It can be dangerous though so be as sure as possible that you can actually win the fight. Sometimes it won't neccessarily be about winning, just knowing that you stood up for yourself can be vindication enough even if you lose.

As far as legal ramifiation go; be smart about it, and know your limits. Usually if you use a weapon when your opponent doesn't have one or you strike them when they are already on the ground you are crossing the line from self-defense to assualt.
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No gods. No masters.

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#25433 - 06/06/09 12:42 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
But what about the subtler approach? If you know some basic information about the person, sign them up for some magazines and websites. Staunchly anti-gay? How about a subscription to "Out" magazine, with "please contact me for future offers". A few anonymous ads posted on Craigslist? "Looking to try anal for the first time" is sure to have their phone and email going bonkers.

If you're in a bar, order the guy a Shirley Temple. That could escalate things though.

If it's a coworker or close person that you know the habits of, try the old pen or toothbrush rubbed in your butt crack method. Best case, they get sick. If not, you get a good laugh the next time the chew on the pen or brush their teeth.

You don't always have to beat someone within an inch of their life and risk arrest or worse.
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Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#25442 - 06/06/09 04:32 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: fakepropht]
satipera Offline
stranger


Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Europe, Wiltshire
I do not know whether my post was deleted or if I did not post it properly. I will post it again If it is deleted I would like to know why. Either way I will not re-post it.
I came to this forum looking to find a serious discussion of the philosophy of Satanism, instead I find people posting about breaking chairs on heads and stuffing another persons toothbrush up your arse. Is this really the level of posting that is encouraged here or is it just tolerated?
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Do not try to hold a discussion with someone who is just looking for a fight.

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#25443 - 06/06/09 04:51 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: satipera]
Morgan Offline
Princess of Hell
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 2956
Loc: New York City
Maybe you should read the topic and understand what the conversation is about before you comment on it.

You are in a new place, look around, read a bit. Then comment on stuff after you understand what you are commenting on.

You stated you were into politics, well then...

Go read the political forum, and see if you can add to any of those conversations.

Morgan
_________________________
Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
Don't Like What I Say, Kiss My Ass



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#25444 - 06/06/09 04:51 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: satipera]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3810
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Honestly, you have yet to show you have the ability to even recognize Satanic philosophy, much less condescend others for not holding to your standards of what it should be. What the hell have YOU contributed?

Maybe you should re-read the OP, and try to digest the question and why the answers are relevant to that question, rather than spout off and look ignorant.

Just a thought.
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#25446 - 06/06/09 05:05 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Dan_Dread]
satipera Offline
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Registered: 06/04/09
Posts: 11
Loc: Europe, Wiltshire
Really, delete my account. You are defending observing rule of the Earth number 11 by putting a toothbrush up your arse?. I will do some reading on my own. Goodbye.
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Do not try to hold a discussion with someone who is just looking for a fight.

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#25447 - 06/06/09 05:08 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: satipera]
coelentrate Offline
member


Registered: 07/07/08
Posts: 164
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
 Originally Posted By: satipera
I came to this forum looking to find a serious discussion of the philosophy of Satanism, instead I find people posting about breaking chairs on heads and stuffing another persons toothbrush up your arse. Is this really the level of posting that is encouraged here or is it just tolerated?


Well satipera, I've been on this forum for a little while now and here I've read a lot about this Satanic Philosophy you're talking about. (I do a lot more reading than writing. I think that's the not-too subtle hint people are giving you.) It's not hard to find. My question was fishing for new ideas on practical application of Satanic thought. This isn't a philosophy only forum, and my post is one example.

To put it more nicely than you deserve, your post is misguided.

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#25451 - 06/06/09 10:45 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Asmedious Moderator Offline
Moderator
senior member


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 1722
Loc: New York
In today’s politically incorrect society, the victim of assault, who defends themselves, is often viewed as the aggressor; so one has to be smart about how, when, and to what level they use physical force to defend themselves.

In the olden days, a person could best defend themselves from an aggressor by working out, and learning some form of warriorship. Today, perhaps, a person would be better equipped to defend themselves if they got a law degree.

If you have to physically defend yourself from an aggressor, then it might be prudent to appear greatly traumatized by the experience, and the fact that you had to hurt some poor, misguided soul, who attacked you.
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#25459 - 06/06/09 02:19 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: satipera]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
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Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
It appears you have not expanded your reading or train of thought outside the boundaries you have erected. Since you choose to single out my comment about a toothbrush up your ass, allow me to elaborate.

It is not an original idea. It actually appeared in print, which is where I got the idea from. I want to say it was in either a book written by Abbey Hoffman or one of the Cloven Hoof mags written by Anton LaVey. I tried to search it online, but you know when you type anything involving the ass, 1000 porn sites pop up. Therefore, I can not cite my reference, but given half a day, I could probably find it.

Next, let's explore the concept of the toothbrush up an ass. Anyone beyond the 3rd grade knows that fecal matter contains harmful bacteria, germs, waste, etc. When these nasties are inserted into the mouth, there is the chance to contract a disease. Now if you are getting back at someone close to you, wouldn't it be so much better to have them contract some kind of disease and it be untraceable to you. Say, hepatitis? Rather than just punching them in the face and spending some time in the clink and on probabation, and carrying an arrest record with you for life, instead you might get lucky and get to relish in the fact this person is puking their guts out for 3 days. Or worse. At the very least, should no illness result, at least you get the satisfaction of seeing this person showing off their "pearly whites". Not every reaction to a situation needs to involve smashing chairs over someone's head or plucking out eyeballs.

Grow a set of balls.
_________________________
Beer, the reason I get up every afternoon.

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#25461 - 06/06/09 03:30 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: fakepropht]
ceruleansteel Offline
active member


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 784
Loc: Behind you
To the OP:

I guess I have an advantage, being a single female toting a couple of smalls around all day. Legally, the level of "bother" that I must endure is quite a bit less than you would get away with. I could shoot a man in the head just for being in my doorway if I could prove that I felt myself or my children were in danger. I don't even have to prove that we WERE in danger, just that I THOUGHT we were.

Essentially, I took #11 to mean what you can hear about by tuning into any pop station: "don't start no shit, wont be no shit." Don't fuck with other people, but don't stand there like a pussy if they fuck with you. Respect is earned, but you will have none if everyone gets to publicly bugger you.

If you are secure in yourself and your abilities, you will project a type of image that tells people as much. When you see a cop in the grocery store, it doesn't matter if he's wearing a clown suit, you know he's a cop. He has that commanding aura about him. That's the type of projection one should make in order not to be bothered...but if some punk wants to test the waters, be sure to prove to him that they are shark-infested.


Edited by ceruleansteel (06/06/09 03:32 PM)
Edit Reason: misspelling

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#25468 - 06/07/09 12:20 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Scarlett156 Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/20/09
Posts: 59
Loc: rural Eastern Colorado (USA)
I read all the replies in this topic. What I can add is that he used the word "destroy" instead of "kill"--to me that indicates recognition of tacit (mutually-accepted) degrees of retaliation against offenses.

That is, I think he means "destroy" as in "destroy the offender's ability or will to bother you again", leaving the method and degree of destruction up to the offended party. After all, he doesn't say: "Here's what I think you should do if someone bothers you"--right? And he's not saying: "I kill anybody who bothers me." He's saying: "This is what I do when someone bothers me."

An individual who over- or under-reacts to stimulus on a regular basis, time and time again, does not survive long. A self-interested person will not base his reaction to an offense on the momentary rage or upset that the offense causes, but first gives a sportsmanlike warning, and then--in the event that the warning is not heeded--proceeds to the action that best suits his own wellbeing and interests. Killing is seldom going to be the result of a well-thought-out, self-interested response to an offense, but something is ALWAYS going to be destroyed; it's up to the offended party to make certain that what gets destroyed is nothing of his, once his retaliatory acts are set into motion.

I hope this was helpful in piecing together an answer to your question.

~~~ yours in Chaos, Scarlett


Edited by Scarlett156 (06/07/09 12:21 AM)
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"I can fling poo gooder than u"

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#25477 - 06/07/09 12:43 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Diavolo Offline
RIP
stalker


Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
A large part of the problem of being bothered is the victim itself. Like animals we all feel pretty well who is prey and who not. Some just seem to wear a sign that says "eat me" while others call forth visions of them pushing a pitchfork in your eye when even addressing them. Of course group behavior or any substance that influence people twist those natural warning signals we got.

In the days of yore when I was young, when it was needed, people just bashed the others and that was it. The conquerer felt glorious for a while, the conquered went home, licked their wounds and either learned a lesson or came back for another attempt. None called the cops, such behavior was dishonorable, not done by a man.
Nowadays the situation has changed. The last time I beat the shit out of someone, I got the bill presented. And while I rather would have spent the cash at other things, experiences like this have their worth too. It's responsibility to the responsible, he confused being drunk with thinking and wanted to impress his girlfriend, I showed her what a Nancy she was fucking. He sued me and I paid the price. So we both broke some laws, he natural ones, me societal ones and we both paid for it.

But experiences like this should not become a habit. You'll run broke pretty fast in our modern society. If the same experience would happen to me, I would exploit the weak spots in law and order. Instead of beating him up right in public as I did before, I would have left, waited in the dark until he left the pub too and would have clubbed him like a baby seal. No witnesses, no case. And this is what we should keep in mind. All cultures or societies we frequent come with their specific rules and when someone bothers us enough to provoke the demon, we should make sure that demon uses his brain. Law is there to control those that grant it power and while the current television shows might give a different perception, the coppers out there aren't really like CSI on television. Not that much gets thoroughly investigated and much crime goes unnoticed. The strength of a satanist lies in his cunning to stay in the dark.

Revenge should not always be served cold, lukewarm does it too at times.

D.

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#25555 - 06/10/09 03:12 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
OG MUPPET Offline
stranger


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 17
Loc: st/louis Mo.
Ahh yes, Du Rules again.

11 rules of the earth should read> "11 fair weather suggestions."

It's not that I don't get the concept of it. Too my understanding it suggest that, "When minding your business, & some one fucks with you, don't be a pussy about it." OK, fair enough.

BUT as many of you have pointed out, there are many ways to do this. Most of the time it can be non-lethal, or even nonphysical.

& as many of you pointed out, there can be consequences. I would even go as far to say, that All of us here, would think that "it's better too be judged by 12, then carried by 6."

Too summarize my rant, >"I"< think that these "rules" weren't even written for "US", I think Anton got tired of getting asked the same old shit, over & over again by Sheeple. I can't think of any other reason, that a man with his intellect, would go out of his way, too point out the obvious.

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#25557 - 06/10/09 03:31 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Morbid Rex Offline
member


Registered: 01/29/09
Posts: 130
Let's not forget there is more than one way to "destroy" someone. I don't think the act of destruction can only come from physical assault, you can also destroy someone emotionally or psychologically. It seems to me that the eleventh rule is more of a reminder, something that says "hey remember to stand up for yourself jackass!"

Edited by Morbid Rex (06/10/09 03:31 PM)
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Do I dare disturb the universe

Satanism! The only scientifically proven religion.

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#25641 - 06/14/09 02:03 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: coelentrate]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
The "destroy" part has different interpretations depending on the placed situation and what might happen afterwards.

Destroy might range from "physically harass someone", to just calling out names or wishing someone to dead in silence..

 Quote:
This is a very tricky thing to do in a society with lots of rules and a big, powerful authority system. I think it would be extremely useful if a lot of people shared and we all got some tools for the tool box.

Responsibility to the responsible..
Destroy anyone you want, but be sure consequences might happen even if you did it out of defense.

 Quote:
What are some of the ways to deliver swift justice without landing yourself in court?

Easy, seek someone else to do your bidding. I mostly send someone else to deal with a person who bothers me. Not in my name ofcourse.. just someone I know of caracter or ideas who will "destroy" the opponent out of own movement by also being bothered or being opposed by him.
The best tool for the toolbox you can have is just "know thy enemy".


Edited by Dimitri (06/14/09 02:07 PM)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25647 - 06/14/09 08:17 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Dimitri]
TornadoCreator Offline
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Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Who ever said destroying someone had to be so literal or immediate. Why can't you take the time to do something that will make them regret crossing you. Either it's worth your time or it's not, if it's not, well they clearly haven't bothered you that much, get over it, life's too short. That's my interpretation.

Remember Satanic Statement #5 "Satan represents vengeance instead of turning the other cheek."

Sure, vengeance is great, if I can be arsed, then it's not so much turning the other cheek as not wasting my limited time. However vengeance doesn't mean violence, you can take great pleasure in hurting them later by a non-violent method... if that is, you feel you need to. I personally choose to ignore that rule, mainly because I'm never really bothered when in 'open territory' and secondly because I find it to be the spark of anger in me wanting to follow that rule, and that's a side of me I'd rather not have in control.
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#25657 - 06/15/09 01:51 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3109
If it was adressed to me, read a bit closer...
" "Destroy might range from "physically harass someone", to just calling out names or wishing someone to dead in silence..

Quote:
This is a very tricky thing to do in a society with lots of rules and a big, powerful authority system. I think it would be extremely useful if a lot of people shared and we all got some tools for the tool box.

Responsibility to the responsible..
Destroy anyone you want, but be sure consequences might happen even if you did it out of defense."

Last part was just answering a question ;\)
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Ut vivat, crescat et floreat

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#25734 - 06/17/09 11:08 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Nightmare Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: San Antonio TX
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Who ever said destroying someone had to be so literal or immediate.


I agree I find it far more plausible and beneficial to wait until the bothersome individual is alone (most of the time they feel brave in a group) and not expecting the payback. Not only wait until they are alone but make sure nobody sees your act and no jury or judge can prosecute you based on your word against theirs.
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So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean,
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be

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#25735 - 06/17/09 11:32 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Nightmare]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
 Originally Posted By: Nightmare
 Originally Posted By: TornadoCreator
Who ever said destroying someone had to be so literal or immediate.


I agree I find it far more plausible and beneficial to wait until the bothersome individual is alone (most of the time they feel brave in a group) and not expecting the payback. Not only wait until they are alone but make sure nobody sees your act and no jury or judge can prosecute you based on your word against theirs.


This still strikes me as petty. Naturally it's hypothetical vengeance and we've yet to ascertain what for in our example, but honestly, in most cases someone bothers me in "open territory" I just ignore them, my time is too precious to waste it on elaborate vengeance unless the person does something exceptional then they gain my attention and I work on actually evening the score. I don't think I have ever used basic violence as my method of vengeance, only ever in self defence (discounting of course when I was a kid, all kids fight).
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If you can't practice what you preach, at least have the decency to preach what you practice

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#25761 - 06/18/09 09:45 PM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: TornadoCreator]
Nightmare Offline
pledge


Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 58
Loc: San Antonio TX
Not always Violence but also acts that may cause them to have large amounts of stress. people that are simply bothersome I ignore however when it is something major like my $500 stereo that was stolen from me Vengeance is not optional. the guy that stole that now receives three gay magazines a week and is signed up for daily E-Mail from at least ten gay sites. He also has signed up for several car, payday, home, and other loans that will contact him at home and on his cell. He learned quickly not to mess with me
I then hacked his computer and ruined it. That is the type of vengeance I dish out
_________________________
So can you tell me what exactly does freedom mean,
If I'm not free to be as twisted as I wanna be

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#25774 - 06/19/09 10:32 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Nightmare]
Atralux Lucis Offline
pledge


Registered: 05/22/09
Posts: 79
Loc: Australia
I had an idea that follows laVey's little idea of subconscious attack via curse. They dismiss it consciously and it eats them up sub consciously.
If someone is pissing you off, have this long latin dialogue memorized for throwing some fake satanic curse on them. they will laugh it off and then later and later it will have some affect by their sub conscious.

I really have no idea how effective this would be as a weapon because I havent used it yet but if LaVey's theory of psycho-magick is correct then it should work. Maybe add in some weird hand gestures and all that too.

That could be one weapon for harming the person. My other suggestion would be to humiliate via legal methods (or lesser risk methods) Breaking limbs and such will obviously get you in trouble, a broken nose maybe not so much, if you do some martial arts or something and learn to incapacitate them without causing too much damage then i think you can legally implement the satanic philosophy.


Edited by Atralux Lucis (06/19/09 10:32 AM)

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#25821 - 06/20/09 09:01 AM Re: rule of the earth number 11. [Re: Atralux Lucis]
TornadoCreator Offline
member


Registered: 10/24/07
Posts: 586
Loc: No Fixed Address
Well, Atralux, I had a girlfriend who actually believed in crap like crystal healing and aura cleansing etc. She used to do exactly what you are suggesting only she actually believed it. In USA (or maybe Australia) it might work, people are very religious and could easily believe in the curse. Here in UK people get the piss taken out of them is they're particularly vocal about being Christians. People would laugh it off and think of you as an idiot, word would spread and people would consider you superstitious and stupid. People where embarrassed to be around my ex, including myself, and she draw attention to herself far too frequently.
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