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#2551 - 12/04/07 08:26 PM Autotheism and Immortality
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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Deconstruction

Since the dawn of recorded human history there has been the concept of the human soul and an afterlife, the ideas of which are endlessly unbound throughout eternity. There have been many philosophical and religious definitions on these concepts over the millennia. In most cases, however, each is bound by faith in the grace of a singular supernatural omniconscious which is separate from and superior to our individual selves. This omniconscious has taken many forms over the course of human history including a variety of gods, the personified spirit of nature, and even extraterrestrials to cite just a few examples.

Whatever the form, they all dwell in the crucible of fallible human creation. It is in this creation of something greater than ourselves that we find inherent flaws and paradoxes. Consequently, humanity requires faith in order to justify the constructs which allegedly grant our consciousness immortality beyond our bodily existence. Furthermore, humanity has enslaved itself to these constructs over the centuries and thus created the most powerful meme complexes ever known simply for the sake of comfort and the fear of challenging the atmosphere of blind acceptance and apathy. The control of their lives rests in the hands of the omniconscious, not their own.

Conversely, there are those that dismiss or doubt the ideas of souls, gods, and eternal existence in any form. Through outright denial, agnosticism, or the apathetic choice to concertedly lack belief in anything, these people are the seemingly polarized opposite of the theist. In fact, they have more in common with their theistic counterparts than not. They too have trapped themselves in a world of absolutes enslaved by the notion that there is nothing beyond what they know. The unexplainable and supernatural are figments of overactive imaginations. They are therefore relegated to a closed existence of tedium and banal contentment. These people live detached lives and see no further than their own self-imposed mundane existence. Their lives are not burdened with the greater aspects or possibilities of the universe and they choose ignorance instead of pro-activity.

Regardless of any denominational argument for or against gods, faith, and the soul, the only undeniable truth with regard to them is that they’re all human constructs. In being human constructs, they are all subject to inevitable failure in the light of fact. The only path to understanding a greater identity of oneself is through pushing the boundaries of what is known to be fact. The only plausible search for immortality lies within the laws of the universe (or multiverse) as we discover them, and as we learn to apply them.

One proven constant within the universe is that everything that ever was, is, or will be is created out of energy. The wondrous thing about this fact is that you don’t need to be a quantum physicist to understand it. This energy in itself is immortal, but always in a state of effortless flux. We are all made of billion-year-old carbon that has been in a state of change, is currently in a state of change, and will change again when we die. What happens to the energy that comprised our body and mind when they cease to function? Most certainly, it reconstitutes into something else. However the questions it raises are many. Is it random or organized? What, if anything, governs the energy as it moves from state to state?

The answers lie right in front of our eyes. Without a doubt, however chaotic the universe may seem, it moves with purpose. Perhaps not a singular purpose, but the universe unfolds in the most effortless and productive way possible. There is an inherent order that causes the universe to obey certain infallible laws; motion, gravity, relativity, etc. Paradoxically, these laws break down at the subatomic level and create the entropic nature of the universe with laws that appear almost opposite to those we understand. We are just beginning to understand theoretical String and Chaos theory. Definitions of time, logic, and dimension break down and become distant horizons we strain to peek over. It is our task then to understand that we can tap into universal laws, energy, and entropy through exploitation of the nature of the universe and our own potential to manipulate these laws to our own benefit. Even if we don’t understand the details of the quantum universe, we can easily exploit its nature to our own personal benefit if we understand some simple basics. After all, our singular selves and the infinite universe are just expressions of energy. This is the key to satanic power, magic, and philosophy.

Reconstruction

Immortality is possible, and provable. How to manifest immortality lies within the understanding of our own godliness. As we begin to understand and focus on our own immortal energy, we can connect with the universal waves of both purpose and entropy and begin to use them to fashion our lives in the here and now however we see fit. It is in this relatively simple harmony with oneself and one’s surroundings that we achieve great things. Instead of spending a lifetime trying to understand the universe, we can spend a fraction of that time letting the universe understand us. In that action, we let the natural order of our True Self manifest and resonate with the seemingly infinite. The infinite universe WILL reply. Our thoughts and feelings can manifest our desires to whatever ends we see fit. These are not the unattainable goals of the selfless Buddhist who meditates upon enlightenment in poverty and shackled to an endless eternity of suffering or reincarnation. These are not the acts of guardian angels, pious messiahs, self-proclaimed prophets, or jealous gods.

Satanic power lies in the undeniable FACT that the natural state of the universe lies in abundance, pleasure, prosperity, and happiness. The Satanist realizes this and acts accordingly in all aspects. Power attracts power. It is neither good nor evil in nature; it is simply proactive or counteractive to the individual. This is not mystical hyperbole or new-age rhetoric. There is no need for faith in anything other than the individual, as the individual is the creator and god of their own reality. And as we gaze down the abyss of the unknown, might we find that we ourselves are synchronous, reciprocal, or even identical expressions of energy, dimension, and immortality?
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#2588 - 12/06/07 06:03 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Okay, Mr. Octavius sir... I'll bite.

How about moving this over a thread and spreading the word on the "how"?

Philosophy is for "thinking", Psychology is for "shrinking", and I would like to be "drinking"...

What is the prescribed method for attaining such changes? It sounds fascinating. How can I control "my" universe? What particular methods have proven beneficial?

I'm a practical kinda guy - I need to know what works.

Please.

With respect,

David.
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#2596 - 12/06/07 02:00 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: daevid777]
Morgan Offline
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Registered: 08/29/07
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Loc: New York City
"Our thoughts and feelings can manifest our desires to whatever ends we see fit."


Dream, Think, Do, and Act.


Morg


"My Approach to your version of reality is based upon My Values and Force of Will to turn your being into a playground for the Manifestations of My Wishes and Desires.” -- Me, my website.
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Courage Conquering Fear
Fuck em if they can't take a joke
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#2615 - 12/07/07 01:54 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Morgan]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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It really is that simple. If you imagine success, focus on success, and dwell in success, you will achieve it. If you imagine hardship, focus on hardship, and dwell in hardship, you will achieve it.

As for immortality...I don't pretend to be a messiah. But the multiverse unfolds to us as we recognize its true identity.
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#2617 - 12/07/07 03:28 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
No. This should no longer be a part of this forum. I may have made this so, but it was inevitable.

Philosphy goes somewhere, or it goes nowhere. You are talking "magick", my dear friend. Whether you like it or not, that is exactly where this diverted introspecition has placed you.

You will call it by different names, such as languages, science, semantics, will always do. You have done a 360 degree rotation, and now there is something new.

There is nothing new. You have just added to the myriad definitions of the unexplainable - it's just physics to you.

"Human" creatures have been around for about a million years...

Now? Now the secret is revealed? NOW? Why not one-hundred thousand years ago - to call it young? Why not ten-thousand years ago - to say younger? How about two-thousand, or one-thousand years ago? I am quite interested in how, for all these thousands of years, we can finally create "The Mind of Mencia". Actually, I'm suprised no one has had any questions on this in any forum. Our ancestors, our greatest thinkers, the most wonderful and talented minds ever in our history, that we still today base our very ideological belief upon... didn't figure out the "steam-engine"? They couldn't have ever produced a "watch", or a "calculator", or perhaps even the "computer". I guess everyone was too busy the last ten thousand years.

I am sorry, this should be relocated immediately. I don't know exactly where, but this, I could say, might not be something for this particular forum. Unless Philosophy, History, Magick, and Science are acceptable here.

I'm a crazy donkey... Crazy, crazy!!!!
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#2622 - 12/07/07 08:52 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: daevid777]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
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Your decision to call it "magick" only takes away the power and possibility of the natural state of the multiverse. When you move it out of the realm of parlor tricks and fairy tales and empower yourself, it becomes a very real and palpable expression of science and reality. Those who can't accept it or can't control it have laughed at it and dismissed it as "magick." This secret has been revealed for thousands of years for those willing to seek it.

Regarding your questions concerning scientific inventions: this power has been manifested by humanity for thousands of years. How else do you explain the mathematical beauty behind the construction of the pyramids? The Mayan calendar? Roman aqueducts? Was it all just dumb luck? Or was someone tuned into the reality, possibility, and power that the multiverse reflects? As satanists, most of us believe that the only real divinity lies in ourselves. If that's true, doesn't it stand to reason that we wield divine power as well? Why not? If your answer relegates this power to the realms of science fiction and fantasy, you may not be the God you think you are.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#2660 - 12/09/07 12:42 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
NO, No, dear Octavius...

I'm just trying to clarify for myself everything you just stated, and to me the clearest definition is "magick". This is more of the Crowley slant, not LaVey. I'm sorry if I seemed an ass. I don't use the term "magick" to define what Criss Angel or David Blane does - that would be an insult to the word.

And,

The question I proposed was of "scientific discovery" or more precicisely, "technology", and I shouldn't have done that here in this forum. I was really asking why we didn't have airplanes back in good ol' 1679...

I'm no great student of history, and I do think "history" is definitely skewed, but I was just wondering why we never had microchips before this (or the last) century.

Then there is the "Mahabarata"... and I don't know what to make of it. Has this all been done before?

p.s. - "Magick" has never, for me, taken away the "power and possibility of the natural state of the mutiverse" - it is the encompassment, and acceptance of your statement in its entirety. That is, by my personal definition, "what it is".
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#2674 - 12/09/07 07:48 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: daevid777]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
Sure, this has all been done before! Under many names, stories, fables, philosophies, etc. To claim it under the name "satanic thought" is a complete misnomer. However, as satanists, we add our own interpretation and we choose to exercise power in different ways. We look inwards and we manifest the results of our desire for our own ends. Is this news? Of course not. But the application is something that few satanists are able to master. It's easy to talk the talk, but walking the walk is something that those who understand keep to themselves.
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So long, and thanks for all the fish.

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#2675 - 12/09/07 11:22 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
daevid777 Offline
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Registered: 08/30/07
Posts: 951
Loc: Hell's Pisshole, Texas
Octavius,

Right on, sir! Unfortunately I don't have your extra sharp set of fine surgical instruments... I've got a butter knife.

 Quote:
walking the walk is something that those who understand keep to themselves


You're right, of course. Thanks for totally blowing away all my smart-ass sarcasm. I am humbled.
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#2676 - 12/09/07 11:35 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
Carme Offline
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Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 17
I've been seeing this kind of idea in similar forms around the site and I have to ask... is what you're describing nothing more than a somewhat glorified version of will power? The "power of positive thinking" on steroids, perhaps? Or am I missing some fundamental truth you all are trying to get at?

I'm not dissing your ideas--in fact I think I might even agree with them--but when you throw in concepts like "the multiverse" (what is that, anyway?) and give your whole spiel a mystical flavor, it kind of turns me off.

Maybe that's why I'm not understanding you. Could you clarify a few things?

How can I, after recognizing and accepting the idea that I'm just energy organized a certain way, connect to universal waves of purpose and bring about positive changes in my life? I mean, how do I get there? Meditation? Sensory deprivation? Thinking happy thoughts a la Peter Pan? How can the process and results be measured?

What do you mean by "letting the universe understand us?" How will I know when the universe replies to me? Is it when I get what I want/achieve my goals? Will it always work this way? What if I have doubts?

How can the "natural state of the universe" lie in a state of pleasure and happiness? I truly feel silly asking this because I wonder if something has gone completely over my head, but aren't these human constructs? Can exploding balls of hydrogen and helium feel happiness?

Thanks.

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#2681 - 12/10/07 03:41 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Carme]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
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What if...YOU...are the universe? What if...YOU...are a unique singularity co-existing with other unique singularities in a "multiverse?"

Take a closer look at "M-theory."
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#2690 - 12/10/07 01:48 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
Carme Offline
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Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 17
Oh. Well that makes more sense. You should preface your entire post with: take a look at M-theory if you haven't in the past few years. It's always nice to have a somewhat tangible jumping off point.

It's neat to think about but, correct me if I'm wrong, it's still in its theoretical physics infancy. If we could measure and analyze it from, say, a mathematical standpoint, I can see how it would give validity to your "I am the universe" bit... which explains why your post is on the philosophy board and not the science & technology board. That and we don't have a science board...

And although this is entirely secondary, the "power" you're describing still sounds like a glorified version of will power. Is the vague and somewhat mysterious tone of your post intentional? For creative purposes maybe?

I like science. It doesn't need to be mysterious to awe me - facts and simple statements of "we don't know, but x is possible" work quite well. Taking M-theory and giving it this pseudo-religious spin is unfortunate and limiting. You talk of "waking the walk" yet I still don't know how you do this, and you won't come right out and say it (or you have somewhere and I missed it). You talk of it as a "secret" for those "willing to seek it" - a select and powerful few, yes? You say this isn't mystical hyperbole or new-age fluff - yet, at least to me, your presentation of it gives it such a flavor. Does that make sense?

In any event, thanks! I've been looking for some good reads now that I'm on break until January. M-theory certainly has my attention.

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#2842 - 12/21/07 08:03 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
Enslaved Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 5
Loc: KCMO
I enjoyed the breakdown: we are all human, all energy...?

Doesn't the notion that the universe moves with a purpose also imply a type of faith? Or is that more pychodrama? Do we create immortality through our actions? I dont think so. There is nothing that is immortal no matter how much we wish otherwise. The self dies with time. All we can do is as you stated, is make the most of it. Implying that the universe moves with a purpose implies also a higher omnicsient conciousness. Or am I wrong?

I believe the term multi-verse has crossed my eyes over sci-fi novels, but claim ignorance: could you expand on that?


 Quote:
And as we gaze down the abyss of the unknown, might we find that we ourselves are synchronous, reciprocal, or even identical expressions of energy, dimension, and immortality?

Could you expand on this as well?


Sincerly,

EBN

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#2843 - 12/21/07 09:26 PM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Enslaved]
Octavius Offline
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Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 557
Loc: Left the party
No. Sorry, but I'm not going to dumb this down for you. Not because I'm unable to do it, but because you're asking for a metaphysical and psychological handout. If you can't look beyond your myopic vision of your universe, then I pity the small expression of you that dwells in the multiverse. Push your own boundaries. I won't do it for you. You certainly are what your screen name implies....enslaved.
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#2845 - 12/22/07 12:28 AM Re: Autotheism and Immortality [Re: Octavius]
Carme Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/29/07
Posts: 17
I assume we are here (at least in part) to learn something. Although personally I think it falls short much of the time, forums such as this one are all about self-betterment. Right?

What is your purpose in posting what you did if others cannot learn from it? If we can't analyze, debate, or even fully conceptualize its possibilities and larger implications? Are you just waxing philosophical and looking for nods of agreement? Should I be impressed? Truly, what is the point?

I was thrilled to read enslaved's post. I was quite disappointed by your response to it. I sincerely pegged you as one of the better posters of this community--a person who doesn't hide behind cryptic narratives or the "I'm not going to give you a handout" excuse. And it IS an excuse, as far as I'm concerned. Anyone who can't back up their statements with understandable, coherent explanations devoid of the vague assertions you're apparently so fond of is not someone to whom I'd give my consideration on matters such as these.

In summary: what a copout, dude. There's already a "fake prophet" running around these parts.

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