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#32800 - 12/11/09 11:32 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
FdB Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Las Vegas, NV / Dallas, TX / K...
lol. I think the post office thing is because its the Main post office in San Francisco and has after hours box access. But I never really though about the building itself.

Karla has been in the works of redesigning the website, but often it takes a back seat to other pressing matters. I do know that the next iteration will be much bigger in scope, the site is 10 years old now and needs a revamp.

Much of the site design contemplation is on the new look. Karla wants the drab darkness gone and to give it a feel of who we are. We don't need the 60's and 70's appeal anymore. So I have no idea what's coming.

But i'll have it up as soon as I get the specifications. Other than that I never take the liberty of having the site modified on my own. The Church is Karla's business and I wouldn't want to interfere with her company in the same way I don't want her interfering with mine. Mutual respect.

I will suggest to her that we collect as many questions from the 600club as we can find and put together answers for them. I think that is a great idea.
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-FdB-


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#32801 - 12/11/09 11:35 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
FdB Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Las Vegas, NV / Dallas, TX / K...
ROFLMAO! OMG I never even noticed who I was responding to. LOL. You obviously would know why that post office was chosen! lol

Its great to hear from you again, its been a few years since we last talked. I will definitely tell Karla the idea of the Q&A came from you. Think she'll like that. \:\)

Victoria
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-FdB-


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#32847 - 12/13/09 04:46 AM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: FdB]
FdB Offline
stranger


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 24
Loc: Las Vegas, NV / Dallas, TX / K...
Sorry my original post had inaccuracies which have now been corrected and approved. I requested the original post be removed, this one isn't drastically different, but worded in a misleading way on my part. My apologies for any confusion.

----------------------------------------

I found reading the posts in this thread interesting. Yes I know its been a very long time since I wrote anything here lol. As a friend of Karla's LaVey and an 10 year member of the FSC, I would like to add some clarifications.

First I want to say that I am friends with Lord Egan (John Dewey) but haven't seen him in quite some time. I have also had wonderful conversations with Dr. Aquino over the years and I find each of them first class people, who just have a different take than I do on things. But just because we don't agree, doesn't make any of them a quack. Freedom of thought and expression should be the first and foremost goal of any Satanist to protect.

While I do know the details of what happened between the CoS and the FSC, I do not feel it productive on anyones part to rehash the events. Especially since the legal battles are still on going. I will say that the clash has nothing to do with religion or the running of the church and more to do with personal family matters and the LaVey estate. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying.

I can't tell you what the CoS now stands for, I am not a member, nor am I on friendly grounds with them. Most of you know how the CoS views me and all I have to say on that is, whatever. lol. 

So first I want to tell you that a major difference in the FSC than ANY other group is that we don't have positionary titles. Titles are nothing more than good-guy badges and a false sense of self importance. In our organization, to be important, you must become important. Not in the eyes of the church, but in the eyes of every day people. We strive to be something better than "how many essays can you write" or "what ritual did you do". We want immortality through our outside actions. We want to "Xeper", if I may borrow the word, in a much broader way. We want to impact the world and shape it to our will for the benefit of all mankind.

We are atheistic for the most part. Many of us do believe in a universal energy. Think of it as electricity running the show, but we don't worship it. Everyone has a different way of expressing it, I like to use we are the opposite of Buddhism. But those are my words, not others.

Some of us do not have a need for formal rituals and don't perform them as a group. Some still like to do do them, but we feel that they are nothing more than dogma to help an individual to change a current path of thinking. Many of us have retired the need for them because we feel that it causes too much confusion for some individuals who may become reliant on such a practice, which is counter productive. It also doesn't help that many of these practices were meant to be nothing more than a "show" for the public and the practices of mocking other religions really isn't necessary.

We do not have an online presence. We do have a website. We meet in public a lot and we also have public events such as Black X Mas and the Valentine show etc. We are not segregated to San Francisco, but the most high profile events are held there.

Although we meet, we do not have what are called grottos or pylons. Why would we based on what you have learned so far. But people do seem to hook up and do things on their own, which is more functional. I like to say we are a network of people who rely on each other to get things done, even if its only moral support.

I am involved in politics and other than the ToS, I don't think any other group is. I was a Texas Republican Delegate in the last election, making sure McCain didn't get elected lol. One of my personal goals has been to take back the Republican party and get all the Christians out. Yea I know I could be wasting my time on better things, but it amuses me and I learn a lot doing it. Like how to properly bash the windows out of my car when dealing with them (another joke). Note: The group has many diverse political affiliations.

We don't let you become a member because you send in money. We are much more like the ToS here. You need to send a letter (note best to write clearly). FSC is looking for you to be very honest on what you believe, why you want to be a member, what you expect of us and generally who you are. This isn't a contest and it isn't an elite club.

If your beliefs align with the Church and what it's goals are then you will undoubtedly become a member. If you don't, why would you want to be one. You should belong to a group that you mesh well with. Plus we always stand by our statement that you DO NOT NEED TO JOIN A GROUP to be a Satanist. And yes it takes a long time to get a response. But that is because Karla oversees responses to each and every person who is accepted. She is very busy, but if you have patients and you mesh with us... your in. Yes we are a worldwide organization, we are not segregated to San Francisco or the United States.

There are many groups out there. When joining a group find out if THEY believe the way you do, don't go the other way around. Do not try to fit in. You want a group where you can be yourself and grow, otherwise your going to be miserable and accomplish nothing. Do not concern yourself if someone out there thinks the group is kooky. We all think someone is.

If you are gay/lesbian/bi or transgendered, then join a group that supports equality 100%. Join the FCS . Do not join the CoS who has gone on record saying they don't support gay marriage and only tolerate homosexuality.

If you believe in a classic Church of Satan the FSC might be right for you.

There are now so many "denominations" of Satanism, proving that we are a bonafide religion, it doesn't make sense to join something that isn't a perfect fit for you.

I hope this clarifies some things about us. And while I am not speaking in official capacity, I am sure this is an accurate representation of us as a group.

Victoria
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-FdB-


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#32869 - 12/13/09 04:38 PM The First Satanic Church [Re: TornadoCreator]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
In addition to being a dignified and respectful memorial to Anton LaVey, a thoughtful expounder of the social aspects of his philosophy, and a distinguished representative of the Satanic tradition generally, one should never forget the First Satanic Church's groundbreaking presence as well.
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#32884 - 12/13/09 11:31 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: FdB]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
 Quote:
We want to impact the world and shape it to our will for the benefit of all mankind.

We are atheistic for the most part. Many of us do believe in a universal energy. Think of it as electricity running the show, but we don't worship it. Everyone has a different way of expressing it, I like to use we are the opposite of Buddhism. But those are my words, not others.


Don't you think buddhists (as any other religion) want to shape the world for the benefit of all mankind?

Why then do you say FSC is the opposite of Buddhism ? Could you develop?

(I'm personnaly annoyed by churches wanting to shape the world for my benefit (as I'm included in mankind) ;-)

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#32886 - 12/13/09 11:56 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: Fabiano]
Natalia666 Offline
stranger


Registered: 11/29/09
Posts: 34
Loc: Alabama
How odd that the CoS does not support gay marriage or transgenders. Sounds more like fundamental Xtianity than Satanism. Very odd.

Thanks for sharing the info about the FCS. This is the first time I have heard of it. As a young person I am happy to see the teachings continue. I have heard only negative about the present day CoS. I am curious, what kind of activities/newsletters do they hold? The website entails very little. Also if they have "lessons" of any sort. I am only curious because I am involved in another LHP organization and don't want to spread myself too thin.

As for Buddhists "shaping reality". I see Buddhist teachings as more so "escaping" reality by meditative bliss. Not that being at peace is a bad thing, just rather dull. While Satanists grab reality by the guts!
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"One is not born, but rather becomes, a woman."
-Simone De Beauvoir




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#32954 - 12/15/09 09:11 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: SkaffenAmtiskaw]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
You've got it right on there. I think a while ago I made a post saying that "Mayaism" would be a more accurate term for the Satanic religion, in that it represents a wholesale rejection of spirituality in favor of enthroning material existence and independent will, embodied by the tempter Maya, which represents the antithesis of Buddhism.
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#32977 - 12/16/09 07:43 PM Re: First Satanic Church vs. The Church Of Satan [Re: The Zebu]
Fabiano Offline
member


Registered: 09/06/08
Posts: 374
The Zebu, Maya is either the mother of Buddha or an Hinduist concept. The one wich tempted the Buddha is Măra. So I guess you meant "Măraism".

Maw, thanks for this buddhism lesson but I already know it.
I know the difference between a Arahant and a Bodhisattva.
The Arahant is the goal to attain in Theravada. He reaches the enlightment for himself. The Mahayana, which historically comes later, goes further : the logic behind is that if you're a Arahant who won his Nirvana and you want to attain the pinacle of altruism you should be capable of voluntary declining the Nirvana you gained, come back on earth in the samsara and stay there till all souls are enlighted.

Note also that the hinduist maya concept is defined as the illusion of duality. Enlightment leads to see that there is no such duality. So things are not simple as that...

I think that confusion about religion & spirituality comes from the fact that few make the difference between what Gordon Allport names intrinsic religion and extrinsic religion.

Extrinsic religion could be called "churchianity" : belonging to a particular church, adhering to its dogma,...
Mystics represent the intrinsic religion: they live very personnal experiences and are generally against dogmas. For instance, Catherine of Siena said to the pope Urban IV that "he had to control his hard and violent mood". Mystics are often anoying for their own church.

I'm conviced all problems comes from this "churchanity" rarely from intrisic religion.

Finally, note that Buddha never pronounced on life after death, so reincarnation does not come from him.

Regarding the Nirvana, it's the paradise of the Xian and the virgins of the muslims. In every religion you have a lure for attracting rookies (magick in Satanism). It's what motivates them when starting on the path. Later, they might attain some "enlightment". They get their paradise or magic powers but it's never what they tought it to be when they started...

Mind and body are part of the reality. The reality IS. It can't be good or evil. It just can be pleasant for some and unpleasant for others. Denying the mind or denying the body is a 'head buried in the sand' attitude ;-)

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#32980 - 12/16/09 09:06 PM Disneyland [Re: Fabiano]
Michael A.Aquino Offline
stalker


Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 2517
Loc: San Francisco, CA, USA
 Originally Posted By: Fabiano
The one who tempted the Buddha is Măra. So I guess you meant "Măraism".

Foolish mortals who have not yet met Mara eye to Eye may do so here.
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Michael A. Aquino

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#33017 - 12/17/09 10:41 PM Re: Disneyland [Re: Michael A.Aquino]
RollinStalker Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/01/09
Posts: 41
Loc: san francisco ,Ca
Mr Aquino thank you for your site direction to mara temple of doom connection. i liked the women going beyond tokenism aswell.
but i would much rather put my trust in salad fingerssalad fingers
rather than mara.

Still,
rollin Stalker
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FIRST AND LAST AND ALWAYS

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#34263 - 01/20/10 08:34 AM Re: Disneyland [Re: RollinStalker]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I think that Karla LaVey could make a huge impact on the Satanic Community if she wanted to. Apparently she is not that interested in it.

The current CoS has a LOT of detractors and a LOT of people do not like Peter Gilmore's leadership and the directions it has taken in the last decade. I hate to sound judgemental, but the CoS has become a Goth/Vampire fetish freak show.... almost a Pro Wrestling version of Satanism! I do not mind theatrics and I do not mind the use of imagery..... but sometimes it seems like its just shock value for the sake of shock value!

( I will site, "Rex Church" as an example of this... a man, who has made his career out of imagery and taken it to the ridiculous extreme now with the horn implants! )

A lot of people out there, who identify as Satanists, would most likely gravitate towards Karla LaVeys as a more "traditional" alternative to the CoS. However, her website has been stagnant for years, other than updates on her radio shows or club appearances and I wish that she would get a bit more active.

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#34265 - 01/20/10 09:10 AM Re: Disneyland [Re: 111Cal]
Dimitri Offline
stalker


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3118
 Quote:
I think that Karla LaVey could make a huge impact on the Satanic Community if she wanted to. Apparently she is not that interested in it.

Yes she might have the impact.
Lets shine the light to another perspective; instead of letting the old ones reshine why not climbing the way up yourself and giving it a huge impact yourself? If you have the skills to tell stories, if you have the guts to take the quest on, if you know what you are talking about, what the hell are you waiting for?

The pushing and looking back at past figures within the philosophy sounds like a search for conformity. The cries for letting Karla becomming a new black pope or spill-figure for Satanism sounds to me as cries for herd-conformity. Fuck it, past is past, if you want a big impact or change in Satanism it is up to you if you really are craving for it.

 Quote:
However, her website has been stagnant for years, other than updates on her radio shows or club appearances and I wish that she would get a bit more active.

Satanism is lived outside the digital world. While internet can be used as tool to spread ideas and knowledge (or general stupidity which occurs most of the time), it is not a place where you can built up experiences like in real life. Yes her site is stagnant, it does not mean she isn't busy with Satanism.
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#34266 - 01/20/10 09:14 AM Re: Disneyland [Re: Dimitri]
111Cal Offline
member


Registered: 12/22/09
Posts: 143
I see your points, but I do know people who know Karla and she is not that active.... in her local Area, she is somewhat known, but outside of that she has no national presence.

Me Personally? I have no interest in that role. I may be a good story teller and I think I am reasonably intelligent, but I lack that sort of "media charisma" that is needed for that role. Sorry, but its true!

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#53426 - 04/24/11 10:42 PM Re: Disneyland [Re: 111Cal]
Shea Offline
member


Registered: 03/24/11
Posts: 108
Loc: Chicago
The CoS certainly does have a lot of detractors, but there are those of us that appreciate it for what it is as well. I myself just recently joined; I have no large desire to attain a title, nor do I consider myself the next "Great Black Hope" of Satanism. I appreciate the essentially atheistic/noir style the CoS carries, and I very much respect the written works of Anton LaVey.

Gilmore is a capable administrator, and a personable media figure. I recall hearing too that the CoS "tolerates" homosexual relationships--I don't particularly feel like taking the time to hunt down them going on record to say as much. However, I do recall that in "The Satanic Scriptures" Gilmore advocates the interpretation that any sex, as long as it's between consenting adults, is permissible and that marriages between homosexual couples should be made legal.

Sadly, there's a lot of doublespeak and contradiction within the LHP. Personally, I don't trust anyone who says, "But this is what he meant." or "This was the official, but hidden, tradition." etc.

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#53428 - 04/24/11 11:41 PM Re: Disneyland [Re: Shea]
The Zebu Offline
senior member


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 1640
Loc: Orlando, FL
Honestly, I couldn't care less what rules or mandates people who claim to be Satanic "leaders" espouse from their black pulpits.

Such matters are only of interest to the profane masses-- they hear Satanism is a "religion", and there is a "church"... so the media pelts their self-proclaimed "priests" with questions about dogma and opinions on social issues and current events out of overstimuli-deprived curiosity.

If the CoS and other public clubs enjoy their little mass-media games, then let them have their fun, if only for the joy of throwing crumbs before starved pigeons and watching the ensuing squabble. But essentially, the LHP is a radical and diverse school of thought, and its fundamentally anarchic nature leaves little room for such PR indulgence.
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