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#26056 - 06/23/09 04:42 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

Try to fit this into Satanism and you simultaneously fit yourself out.

Sure, if you use that definition. I already stated the definition I was working under, which you posted in part.
 Quote:

The term derives from Greek δόγμα "that which seems to one, opinion or belief"

Ie, a set of beliefs or principles.
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#26058 - 06/23/09 05:02 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Diavolo Offline
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Registered: 09/02/07
Posts: 4997
Doubt is one of the essentials in Satanism and I feel kinda sad that especially I do have to mention elementary concepts of Satanism to satanists. Nothing is holy, nothing is beyond doubt. If something can't be doubted or mentioned; our first response should be "Why?".

At some level I find it rather appalling that I am seeing scripture being used as evidence why satanists can't have certain opinions or question certain subjects. That kind of behavior is of such a weakness that it offends me. I'm following the whole argument for a while now and I am wondering in what religious sect I suddenly ended up. The urge of some to have their fixed views pressed into other's minds is going rampant. If people can't live with the fact that not all will agree with them, that some have other ideas, too bad for them and screw them I'd say. It's weakness and in essence deeply religious; one truth, one word and we all have to submit or be considered sinners.

Society tries to force us to not question certain subjects, as does religion out there. The very fact that we are what we are is because we started questioning things in the first place. We are iconoclasts and even when we accept something as true or good or correct, we realize it is only to US like that.

So please let's quit this whole scripture shit about what was said at what page of what book by whom. THAT never was the intention to begin with. THAT is an elementary mistake I only expect to be done by either starters on the path or by hardcore LttD drones.

D.

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#26060 - 06/23/09 05:11 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Diavolo]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
As I have mentioned, and indeed partly why I started this thread is I feel there is an important distinction between EXAMINING a premise and coming to a conclusion, and believing something on faith.
I HAVE questioned, requestioned, battered and tried with all my might, over and over again, to test and try the boundaries of Satanism. I find your assumptions that I would just take anything on faith, despite my repeated attempts to explain to the contrary, to be both flippant and insulting.

As I have also said many times over, but I will explain to you one more time, is that 'Satanist' is a label given to a certain type of person with a certain type of outlook. Take that away and the word becomes meaningless. Why call yourself a Satanist at all if you question the philosophy and find it lacking, or in discord with what you really believe?

How many more times am I going to have to explain this?

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#26063 - 06/23/09 05:27 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
I HAVE questioned, requestioned, battered and tried with all my might, over and over again, to test and try the boundaries of Satanism.

What bounderies? Wasn't Satanism also about self-improvement and praising your own individual being? If there are bounderies in Satanism then it are the bounderies a person has set up for himself.

 Quote:
As I have also said many times over, but I will explain to you one more time, is that 'Satanist' is a label given to a certain type of person with a certain type of outlook. Take that away and the word becomes meaningless. Why call yourself a Satanist at all if you question the philosophy and find it lacking, or in discord with what you really believe?

I agree with you about "stripping the label away and the word is meaningless". But why shouldn't a person or a Satanist be critical towards it's philosophy? Being critical to one's own philosophy is being critical to yourself and it is one of the major steps for personal advancement. If one fails to be critical to it's own thinking how can be supposed a person can still make coherent thoughts? Answer is simply: it can't.
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#26066 - 06/23/09 06:12 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nemesis Offline
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Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Fat unemployed (pedophile?) damaged goods that you are, why wouldn't you?
;\)


Keep this on track, Skippy. No need to bring name-calling into the discussion.
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#26070 - 06/23/09 06:32 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Nemesis]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Well to be fair, fat and unemployed are descriptions of himself he has posted already, and if he isn't a pedo he certainly seems to have their best interests at heart.

But, duly noted miss moderator \:\)
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#26071 - 06/23/09 06:43 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dimitri]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
I am beginning to wonder if intelligent life exists here..

 Quote:
If there are bounderies in Satanism then it are the bounderies a person has set up for himself.

This in a nutshell is everything I hate about you 'reformist' wannabes. Satanism is what it is, you either fit it or you don't. To try is to lie.
If you want to follow your own footloose and fancy free ideals, or feel limited by Satanism as it is, what the fuck are you doing here? Posers..



 Quote:

I agree with you about "stripping the label away and the word is meaningless". But why shouldn't a person or a Satanist be critical towards it's philosophy? Being critical to one's own philosophy is being critical to yourself and it is one of the major steps for personal advancement.

Does anyone know how to read anymore?
If you think I said anything about NOT questioning...holy shit man I made my point..the exact oposite point..clear as day about ten times now. If you aren't comprehending at this point, there is truly no hope for you.
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#26072 - 06/23/09 06:46 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Nemesis]
6Satan6Archist6 Offline
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Registered: 10/16/08
Posts: 2509
Just using Quick Reply

People seem to be forgetting that just because it is good to question all belief, especially personally held and emotionally charged ones; it doesn't mean you also have to drop these beliefs altogether. Question them, yes, but if you have no good reason to doubt there is no need drop them.

This can be said about a dogma, be it Satanic dogma or otherwise. Question those ideas and beliefs, but you don't have to drop them if they fit for you. Nothing is sacred and all will be challegened but if "it" stands up to the challenge then it stands up to the challenge.

While it's funny that it is claimed "Man needs dogma" (dogma being strongly held belief(s) that is not to be strayed from or questioned) by a Satanist (Satanism from "Satan" to accuse or question), that statement rings true to me. People "like" having strong convictions, opinions and beliefs. Whether those be: "child molesting is wrong" or "No one performs cunnilingus as well as me" don't really matter.

One should look inward, though, questioning those beliefs so they aren't faith based and if they fit and if you feel there is "good" reason to have them, then don't drop them. If they don't fit or if at a later point in time you have a change of heart then drop them.

Sorry if I kind of went off topic there, I just got off work and am a little scatter-brained at the moment.
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#26073 - 06/23/09 06:48 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: 6Satan6Archist6]
Dan_Dread Offline
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Registered: 10/08/08
Posts: 3895
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
 Quote:

People seem to be forgetting that just because it is good to question all belief, especially personally held and emotionally charged ones; it doesn't mean you also have to drop these beliefs altogether. Question them, yes, but if you have no good reason to doubt there is no need drop them.

HOLY FUCK someone gets it.

Give this man a cigar!
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#26093 - 06/24/09 01:05 AM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Quote:
This in a nutshell is everything I hate about you 'reformist' wannabes. Satanism is what it is, you either fit it or you don't. To try is to lie.

Reforming? I was just speaking about self-improvement, not changing the definition of Satanism... Feeling limited by Satanism as it is? Never had the feeling, then again can I ask why you spoke about bounderies of Satanism?


Edited by Dimitri (06/24/09 01:06 AM)
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#26118 - 06/24/09 11:16 AM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
(replying to the original post)

This isn't the first time you've brought up this topic. Maybe it was in the chat room or perhaps a different thread, but I do remember this topic. Now when you quote LaVey concerning dogma, I'm assuming he wasn't referring to just any dogma. Certainly Christians don't need the 10 commandments, as most religionists don't need their religious dogma to survive either. By dogma, could he have just meant rules or guidelines that could be set out by the individual, which would tie into the self-deification idea? Meaning since I am my own god, create my own morals and rules that apply to my life? If so, why did he then present Satanic dogma for Satanists to follow? Perhaps the Satanic dogma he presented was meant only to be there as a reference to what Satanists already follow.

Also,

 Quote:

Well guess what kiddies? Satanism is NOT anything goes. It is not a feel good religion that you can shape and mold to fit you. You either fit the suit, or you do not. It is what it is. If it doesn't fit you, or if you feel the need to change it or adapt it to fit yourself, you are engaging in self deception. You aren't the real deal.


Now exactly how does that relate to what you said about dogma? That if a person is truly a Satanist and were born that way then they will agree with every aspect of Satanism, including following Satanic dogma? I only ask because it seems so simple to understand.


Edited by Mike (06/24/09 11:21 AM)
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#26120 - 06/24/09 11:23 AM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dimitri]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
What Dan is saying is that you can't call yourself a Satanist when there are rules and regulations to Satanism and you make up your own rules which are separate from Satanism.
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#26122 - 06/24/09 01:32 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
 Originally Posted By: Mike
What Dan is saying is that you can't call yourself a Satanist when there are rules and regulations to Satanism and you make up your own rules which are separate from Satanism.

Reread my last response closer mikey, already said I wasn't talking about "reforming the rules". Just basically pointing out things about self-improvement..

For having an in-depth view check out my comment at the topic about taboo's Morgan posted.



Edited by Dimitri (06/24/09 01:34 PM)
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#26123 - 06/24/09 02:26 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Dimitri]
Mike Offline
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Registered: 09/11/07
Posts: 253
Loc: Farmingdale, NY
And by self-improvement you mean adding your own piece of whatever to your basic beliefs?
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#26124 - 06/24/09 02:32 PM Re: Satanism and Dogma. [Re: Mike]
Dimitri Offline
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Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 3139
http://www.the600club.com/dir/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/26100/Main/2085/#Post26100
To make it more easy...
And no, not adding a new piece. The self-improvement I was talking about is getting a bit out of context. I questioned Dan about his "testing and trying about the bounderies of Satanism" and merely stated that the only bounderies I know from this philosophy are the ones one set up for/from self-improvement.

And also made the statement that questioning things doesn't mean implementing new things into something already decent. Even so, questioning things don't mean "reforming" as Dan said since questioning has multiple functions...


Edited by Dimitri (06/24/09 02:35 PM)
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