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#4593 - 02/27/08 08:16 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
So let me get this straight. You are against drugs and the toll the take on society at large. Then you make this statement in another thread....
 Quote:
The one thing i have strong views on are the opium farmers in iraq.There civilians and there only source of income are those feilds.Destroying them will make the farmers go to the taliban for support.Buying the crops from the farmers and using it for medical poropses,perhaps methadone treatments ect,will loosen the grip of the taliban in those areas and they will lose the support of the civilians making it much easier for American and British forces to keep control of the towns and rural areas.

Where do you think the reapings of those fields are going to? Straight into the illegal heroin market. Where the results of which are the very things you are against and would like to see erradicated. Erradication is being done, yet your heart now bleeds for the little farmer that is just trying to eke out a living? So instead, let's support that farmer by turning his product into something "medicinal". After all, then they won't be forced to turn to the Taliban for support. That certainly justifies it. Methadone is a sham. You are only replacing an illegal addiction with a "legal" addiction. Methadone is only a government controlled form of heroin. One they can reap some benefits from. Most addicts continue their addiction by using methadone for years. But it's legal, so it's ok right? Here's a better idea. Why not introduce these farmers to alternative crops and instruct them in the methods to grow them? Offer them free seed to get them started. I'm no agriculturist or farmer, but I'm pretty sure poppy isn't the only crop that can be grown in that region.
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#4603 - 02/28/08 01:56 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: daevid777]
Engel08 Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/04/08
Posts: 40
Loc: California
I believe in moderation.
I practice some regular drug use.
It brings up ideas but can and will get in the way of some willpower.
If your willpower is strong enough it can be honed despite of a moderate use of drugs.
One can be a functional user.
But if it interferes with your goals. You need to quite or cut back.
I also agree with Morgan's statement.
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#4608 - 02/28/08 06:40 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
Nemesis Offline
senior member


Registered: 09/01/07
Posts: 2175
Loc: US
 Quote:
Why not introduce these farmers to alternative crops and instruct them in the methods to grow them? Offer them free seed to get them started. I'm no agriculturist or farmer, but I'm pretty sure poppy isn't the only crop that can be grown in that region.


I know Rossums comment was about Iraq, and your reply was in response to his, but the majority of poppy fields are in Afghanistan. Their government is a bit, well, embarrassed that their country, with a newly elected government, is the world's largest exporter of opium. So, in an effort to tidy up this unsightly blemish, government-hired workers will locate poppy fields (some are very carefully concealed from both land and aerial views), raze them, and hand the pissed-off farmers a bag of crop seed to grow in place of it. The huge roadblock this creates is that corn (or any food crop really) is not worth that of opium, so farmers are losing huge amounts of money that once supported their families and way of life. They will then proceed to dig up the fields, and replant poppy seeds. It's a pretty nasty cycle.

In response to Rossum's "Ned Flanders" stance on drugs, these (according to him) being the source of all the world's problems--dear Rossum, the real problem is poverty. Not having enough food to eat, not having any clothes to wear, seeing others that work far less hard then you and have 100 times more things than you. What would you do in those circumstances? What if a crop of corn or vegetables that you slaved to produce only yielded you $5? Do you really think you could rally yourself to be the honest individual over the sound of your stomach growling? Your children crying and miserable because of illness and hunger? Placed in these real circumstances it would take you all of 10 seconds to decide to deal in drugs, whether it be producing them or hussling them. Why? Because at one's core, you'd choose to live. You really need to get past your comfortable little "Armchair Savior" stance and take a look at the real world. Drugs are there, and they will always BE there, and they're not the problem.
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#4616 - 02/28/08 01:02 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Nemesis]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
In respose to fakepropht...
Yes i am against drugs.That quote dosent seem to sound pro drugs.Quite the opposite actually.The government needs to buy opium somewhere right?And i quite clearly said that it should be used for medical poropses.Also methadone peograms will be more avalible to drug addicts in this country meaning there lives will become more stable and they wont have buy drugs,that in itself will reduce crime.If the government buys it i dont think its going to be made into street heroin now is it?
If these crops are burned the farmers will lose money and go to the taliban for support meaning the taliban tighten there grip on the people in iraq (i do actually mean afghanistan but i ballsed that comment up >_< )making it more dangerous and difficult for troops to operate there,as public opinion will be against them.The farmers may just decide to start a new crop of opium and if its not burned or bought by the government it gets to our streets,we dont want that do we??
They could grow different crops that are legal but thats not in there intrests.Im shure they get more for opium than they would for Rice.If they did decide to change from opium to another crop they would notice the difference in the money they earned and most of them would probably kick off and blame American and British troops giving the power back to the taliban.


In response to Nemesis...
I never once said drugs are the source of all the world's problems.Thats just silly.I dont think you have understood me.
The bigest percentage of crime is drug related.Wither its what people do to get drugs or what drug money funds or people actualy being caught dealing drugs,this is what makes up the majority of crime.I think that poverty is a bigger problem than drugs,and that poverty will be the motivation behind why many people get involved with drugs.To takle poverty you need money,money that is being thrown away on drug crimes,its a huge ammount of money.I dont know about america but in the uk its the single biggest drain on resources.If the government try stop the flow of drugs it will just cost more money and raise taxes.If people decide thy want rid of the drug trade and just dont buy them(I know this is not likley) the problem will go away.The drug addicts would ofcourse still buy there drugs but if no one else decided to take another drugywug ever again there there would be no fresh drug addicts and the current onmes would soon die and that would be that.The money that the government would have to spend on bettering education in poor areas and perhaps increasing welfare or lowering the taxes would be huge.Wither or not the government would use the money that would have been spent on these crimes would go to helping get rid of poverty i dont know.I guess thats another discussion.When the american government are giving funds to organizations that have not even asked for them it seems unlikley.It should though (when im in charge of ermm the world it definetly will,just you wait!)
hmmm im confused >_< basicaly im trying so drugs are a problem but i think it would be more simple and realistic to tackle poverty without drugs.ohhh my its blooming exausting defending my crackpot views,im going for a cofee.I have actual love for every one of you,bye bye xxx

Ohh and i will deal with you later ron,i thought it would be good manners to reply to these two chaps first as there arguments couldnt be boiled down to "FUCK OFF"

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#4617 - 02/28/08 01:04 PM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
Rossums Offline
stranger


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 13
Loc: Glasgow
ohh and nemesis youre bit about the poppy feilds and the cycle and the way of life and all that,yes i liked that i think i agree but im not shure of anything just now,im in the future >_<
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#4635 - 02/29/08 12:12 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
fakepropht Moderator Offline
Big Slick
active member


Registered: 08/29/07
Posts: 990
Loc: Texas
Methadone clinics are a legal form of an opium den. It's a cleaner, less potent form of heroin or opium. It's a legal form of addiction. It's like offering an alcoholic "lesser beer" instead of a malt licquor. Many, not all, use the methadone clinics as a legal way to get their next hit. They still go out and score. But now it is a bit easier, since they can hit the clinic first and level off. I don't advocate drug use, but I do advocate drugs being legal. For some of the very reasons you state. Too many people carry a crime record for nothing more than enjoying a simple joint on the weekend in the privacy of their own home. If it were legal, regulated, taxed, and controlled, similar to alcohol, drug related crime would drop dramaticly. By the way, if alcohol were subject to the same criteria as drugs, it would be a controlled substance on par with heroin, opium, and barbituates. You would need a prescription to access it.

Corn has become a hot commodity these days. With the sudden interest in ethanol as a substitute fuel. It is the new gold or oil. It's popularity has caused a sharp increase in the price of groceries. Everything from fries to beer include a form of corn in their ingredients. Again, I don't know dick about growing crops in that area. But, I would hazard a guess that growing corn instead of poppies would and could replace the gain. In the drug world, the person sourcing the very basic product rarely makes out like a bandit. It is the person on the street peddling it that makes the most profit. The farmer in the Middle East or in Bolivia makes very little for his crop. It isn't until it is harvested, refined, cut, shipped to the middle man, cut further, and given to the street hussler that the profits are made. Corn doesn't have to go through the process. It is legal and sold at far market value. Which today, is very high.
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#5166 - 03/10/08 01:32 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: SSSnake]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Drug use is very double edged.
If used in the right way,right time,and with vibing energy all around you. Man and nature are oneforce intuned.
The wrong way or wrong setting causes bondage.Hate towards humanity,also could lead to death.
Drugs are gifts only for those who will not abuse the privlege.
Drugs are for relief of chronic pain and social pleasure.
Not for slavery...

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#5167 - 03/10/08 01:38 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
I am open about the use of drugs.
I am a patient of pain.
drugs are gifts.
Not to be taken lightly.


"Into the void a ray of light"
Me.

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#5168 - 03/10/08 01:40 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Nicotine is the worst bondage.
I have failed to break the cycle yet.

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#5169 - 03/10/08 01:43 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Tax dope for the love of humanity.
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#5170 - 03/10/08 01:47 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Engel08]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Moderation is the key.
I will drink to that!





"Beauty in the eye of a beholder"

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#5171 - 03/10/08 01:54 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: fakepropht]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Opium is bread on the table.
The golden crop of farmers overthere.
Tobacco is tenneesee.
One in the same?

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#5172 - 03/10/08 01:59 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Rossums]
Isaak w shipley Offline
member


Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 112
Loc: Tenneessee
Charge of the horns...
I could not help myself.
Good debate.

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#5180 - 03/10/08 04:45 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: Isaak w shipley]
DaVinci Offline
member


Registered: 02/09/08
Posts: 218
Loc: Australia
Isaak, you should probably consider putting all of your thoughts into just one post, as it may be considered flooding by the Admin and Moderators.
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"In war, there are no unwounded soldiers." - Josť Narosky

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#5191 - 03/10/08 10:30 AM Re: Drug use indulgence or stupidity? [Re: DaVinci]
ta2zz Offline
veteran member


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 1552
Loc: Connecticut
 Originally Posted By: DaVinci
Isaak, you should probably consider putting all of your thoughts into just one post, as it may be considered flooding by the Admin and Moderators.

Agreed...

I will also add that the rest of us will just think you cannot form a coherent post... In a thread on drugs at that...

Remember the way you represent yourself here is mostly a name, maybe something filled out in your profile, and a picture or avatar... The rest is how you present yourself through posting...

~T~


Edited by ta2zz (03/10/08 10:35 AM)
Edit Reason: added a few words to complete a thought...
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